I bought three iPhone 3Gs, at different times and at different locations, at Apple Stores on my already current AT&T account. Now, i did have issues with AT&T with the first iPhone 3G, but I don't think it was anything with the Symbol device. The AT&T rep on duty went to a terminal that didn't fit with Apple's setup and after about 5 minutes I had my iPhone 3G active.
That's different. We came from Sprint, so we needed to get accounts. We also did so at Apple.
Apple doesn't need, and hasn't needed Microsoft for a very long time. If anything, the reverse is true. Just look at Microsof's pathetic ad campaigns against Apple. Ten million dollars for Jerry Seinfeld, a fading comedian, who uses a Mac and did nothing for Microsof. Now we see "ordinary people," paid actors in fact, that it's better to buy a cheap PC than a Mac because...it's cheap. My god but this stuff wears me out.
If Microsoft weren't so threatened by Appple, they wouldn't be paying for these ads.
i know someone close to the situation...but everything in this post should be considered speculation.
a credit card swiper should be a definite. if an employee keys in the cc number they are required to do a manual imprint of the card. scanner is a must as well; would you want to manually key in 4 tiny barcodes from an iphone box (iccid, imei, sn, upc)? and a camera function would require you to look at the preview to make sure your on the upc. you can laser something upside down with your eyes closed.
while there's no knowing who would make the "jacket" with the scanner and swiper, I imagine InCase (they make the power slider) will be involved...they already make the holsters and belts that the employees use to hold the easypays.
the only downside to using a touch or an iphone as easypay would be the abuse they take. the symbol devices can take a licking, and my friend says they even do minor repairs on them, but a glass screen is not going to hold up to that kind of daily wear and tear.
But the upside is that it will hopefully be a lot less buggy, laggy, and crashy. a crash on a current easypay, which reportedly happens quite often, can mean a 3 minute reboot (a long time in the retail world) inaccurate declining of credit cards, and god-forbid it happens during activation of an iphone!
there isn't any sensitive info on the devices themselves...they connect to a secure local server
oh and BTW, the cash register POS system runs on a mac, and it works like lightning 100% of the time.
the only downside to using a touch or an iphone as easypay would be the abuse they take. the symbol devices can take a licking, and my friend says they even do minor repairs on them, but a glass screen is not going to hold up to that kind of daily wear and tear.
I don't see this as a major issue. The iPhone and iPod Touch are quite durable for handheld CE. I have dropped countless cell phones and cameras over the years and they have busted apart, sometimes working fine after snapping back together, sometimes needing to be MacGyvered a bit to work, and sometimes not working at all.
My original iPhone had no case from day one until I sold it nearly a year later for more than what I paid for it. The back of the aluminium case had some very minor scratches that buffed out and little dent that I noted before eBaying. I kept that in a pocket with keys. The display never cracked or scrathed, though the latter would be less likely with glass.
My current iPhone I use a case because it was free when I bought my Jawbone and iPhone charger. I'm glad I used it because the back plastic is scratching more, even with the case, it seems. Though I have dropped it many times from a couple meters up and many more from about 1 meter up. No issues with the display, though I can see a slight line at the bottom where the glass isn't adhering to the backing as well.
I think that if InCase or someone else makes an attachment that has a CC reader and scanner that they could easily make it thick enough, while making it considerably smaller than current Symbol devices, to encapsulate the iPod/Touch well enough to prevent any real trauma. Even if the inside of the holder is rubberized and extended slightly over the front of the device I think it would be more than sufficient for Apple. But even if it isn't, there are screen covers that will help protect the glass.
I hope that at least a couple of these companies will be the ones making the the attachments, but this looks like a prime time for a small upstart to make some serious coin. In other words, these Motorola Symbol POS handhelds look to cost around $2000 retail, while an iPod Touch costs only $229 + the cost of the attachment, the software, and maybe a docking station. I think that with Apple's SDk that $500-$1000 for the whole POS part would be still be very profitable and still be much less than the ones I'm seeing on Google Shopping. Though honestly, I can see it had for considerably less than the numbers I state.
You are comparing two different products, the Symbol units are robust, you can drop them and they will not break. Yes you can add a robust cover to the iPod (several where available for the iPaqs etc to do a similar job) but these also increase the size of the unit, and the price.
There is also the other sides to the protection factor, like dust, and liquids. No point having a cheap unit if you are repairing it all the time (and believe me you will be repairing it all the time)
the only downside to using a touch or an iphone as easypay would be the abuse they take. the symbol devices can take a licking, and my friend says they even do minor repairs on them, but a glass screen is not going to hold up to that kind of daily wear and tear.
You will have the same issues as the Symbols, and Norands etc, the screens break easily on them as well. Especially when used outside of shop environment like an Apple Store. They should be able to do more than minor repairs on them, the Symbol devices we used you could just about replace every part on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apricot
But the upside is that it will hopefully be a lot less buggy, laggy, and crashy. a crash on a current easypay, which reportedly happens quite often, can mean a 3 minute reboot (a long time in the retail world) inaccurate declining of credit cards, and god-forbid it happens during activation of an iphone!
Maybe there is something wrong with their app, it shouldn't take three minutes to reboot a PPC device and load an app.
Am I the only one who didn't find it ironic that Apple used non-apple hardware for handheld POS terminals?
If given a choice today, and I were in charge of the Apple stores, I probably would still not choose an apple solution for POS. The computing industry is absolutely massive and proficiency in one market doesn't necessarily transfer to another.
There are plenty of things about these handheld scanners that are drastically different than an iPhone or touch. For instance, the ones we use at my company are indestructible. You can drop them from 6 feet onto concrete repeatedly, hundreds times in a row, and they won't break. You can take the battery out, replace it with a fresh one, and the device comes back to life on the last screen you left it, and without wifi disruption to the currently open apps. That's right, the system loses no data even without a battery. Oh, and they never crash, ever. They run for years without a single glance by our IT staff. (With the hardware and software combo we run at least)
There are numerous other systems in the apple stores which also don't run on macs. Everything from the security system, the climate control, to probably even the payroll records hosted on an external website. I suppose the POS software/hardware is high profile in the public's eyes, but other than that it really isn't too significant.
Most people are too clueless to give it second though. And the people who are really knowledgeable about these things aren't surprised either. It is only the people in between that find it ironic, the computer savy users who know quite a bit about macs but not about computer use in retail.
I suppose it might be worthwhile if apple wanted to move out of the consumer market and into retail/commercial/industrial. But to do so requires completely redesigning their hardware. The iPhone and touch are horribly suited to most uses in these fields.
And yes, this is coming from a 20 year mac user who absolutely loves his iPhone.
If given a choice today, and I were in charge of the Apple stores, I probably would still not choose an apple solution for POS. The computing industry is absolutely massive and proficiency in one market doesn't necessarily transfer to another.
While your summary of the industry is informative, don't assume that Apple isn't looking into expanded markets with the Touch (and whatever else they might be working on in the labs). This could be a toe in the water for something that might have a 3 to 5 year timeline.
While Apple itself was no huge customer for presentation software, their motivation to create Keynote went far beyond the potential to save a few PowerPoint license fees. Creating a new POS system for use in their own retail stores might be the first step of a larger feasibility study whose goals we haven't been privy to as yet.
It's got a Mac Mini and runs OSX, we had to buy a plug adapter as it's got a US power plug.
We've got one in our store, every night we turn it off by pulling the power plug (It's too much hassle to undo the screws and shut it down) and every morning we turn it on and start the Quicktime movie that loops all day, it's been doing that seven days a week (apart from Christmas day, Good Friday and Today) since 11 July without missing a beat.
Have you tried to use the "Energy Saver" preferences to schedule daily shut down and start ups? That way, it should work completely unattended, and you reduce the risk of drive corruption because of a sudden power cut every day. Apparently it's working fine for you, it's not changing any files, but there is still a risk, pulling the power cord should be a last resort if at all possible.
Comments
I bought three iPhone 3Gs, at different times and at different locations, at Apple Stores on my already current AT&T account. Now, i did have issues with AT&T with the first iPhone 3G, but I don't think it was anything with the Symbol device. The AT&T rep on duty went to a terminal that didn't fit with Apple's setup and after about 5 minutes I had my iPhone 3G active.
That's different. We came from Sprint, so we needed to get accounts. We also did so at Apple.
I think we will see something akin to the Incase powerslider that adds a card swiper, optical scanner and battery...
That was the battery thing I was referring to, but,couldn't remember its name.
Something like that could contain the entire device.
If Microsoft weren't so threatened by Appple, they wouldn't be paying for these ads.
a credit card swiper should be a definite. if an employee keys in the cc number they are required to do a manual imprint of the card. scanner is a must as well; would you want to manually key in 4 tiny barcodes from an iphone box (iccid, imei, sn, upc)? and a camera function would require you to look at the preview to make sure your on the upc. you can laser something upside down with your eyes closed.
while there's no knowing who would make the "jacket" with the scanner and swiper, I imagine InCase (they make the power slider) will be involved...they already make the holsters and belts that the employees use to hold the easypays.
the only downside to using a touch or an iphone as easypay would be the abuse they take. the symbol devices can take a licking, and my friend says they even do minor repairs on them, but a glass screen is not going to hold up to that kind of daily wear and tear.
But the upside is that it will hopefully be a lot less buggy, laggy, and crashy. a crash on a current easypay, which reportedly happens quite often, can mean a 3 minute reboot (a long time in the retail world) inaccurate declining of credit cards, and god-forbid it happens during activation of an iphone!
there isn't any sensitive info on the devices themselves...they connect to a secure local server
oh and BTW, the cash register POS system runs on a mac, and it works like lightning 100% of the time.
the only downside to using a touch or an iphone as easypay would be the abuse they take. the symbol devices can take a licking, and my friend says they even do minor repairs on them, but a glass screen is not going to hold up to that kind of daily wear and tear.
I don't see this as a major issue. The iPhone and iPod Touch are quite durable for handheld CE. I have dropped countless cell phones and cameras over the years and they have busted apart, sometimes working fine after snapping back together, sometimes needing to be MacGyvered a bit to work, and sometimes not working at all.
My original iPhone had no case from day one until I sold it nearly a year later for more than what I paid for it. The back of the aluminium case had some very minor scratches that buffed out and little dent that I noted before eBaying. I kept that in a pocket with keys. The display never cracked or scrathed, though the latter would be less likely with glass.
My current iPhone I use a case because it was free when I bought my Jawbone and iPhone charger. I'm glad I used it because the back plastic is scratching more, even with the case, it seems. Though I have dropped it many times from a couple meters up and many more from about 1 meter up. No issues with the display, though I can see a slight line at the bottom where the glass isn't adhering to the backing as well.
I think that if InCase or someone else makes an attachment that has a CC reader and scanner that they could easily make it thick enough, while making it considerably smaller than current Symbol devices, to encapsulate the iPod/Touch well enough to prevent any real trauma. Even if the inside of the holder is rubberized and extended slightly over the front of the device I think it would be more than sufficient for Apple. But even if it isn't, there are screen covers that will help protect the glass.
I hope that at least a couple of these companies will be the ones making the the attachments, but this looks like a prime time for a small upstart to make some serious coin. In other words, these Motorola Symbol POS handhelds look to cost around $2000 retail, while an iPod Touch costs only $229 + the cost of the attachment, the software, and maybe a docking station. I think that with Apple's SDk that $500-$1000 for the whole POS part would be still be very profitable and still be much less than the ones I'm seeing on Google Shopping. Though honestly, I can see it had for considerably less than the numbers I state.
You are comparing two different products, the Symbol units are robust, you can drop them and they will not break. Yes you can add a robust cover to the iPod (several where available for the iPaqs etc to do a similar job) but these also increase the size of the unit, and the price.
There is also the other sides to the protection factor, like dust, and liquids. No point having a cheap unit if you are repairing it all the time (and believe me you will be repairing it all the time)
the only downside to using a touch or an iphone as easypay would be the abuse they take. the symbol devices can take a licking, and my friend says they even do minor repairs on them, but a glass screen is not going to hold up to that kind of daily wear and tear.
You will have the same issues as the Symbols, and Norands etc, the screens break easily on them as well. Especially when used outside of shop environment like an Apple Store. They should be able to do more than minor repairs on them, the Symbol devices we used you could just about replace every part on them.
But the upside is that it will hopefully be a lot less buggy, laggy, and crashy. a crash on a current easypay, which reportedly happens quite often, can mean a 3 minute reboot (a long time in the retail world) inaccurate declining of credit cards, and god-forbid it happens during activation of an iphone!
Maybe there is something wrong with their app, it shouldn't take three minutes to reboot a PPC device and load an app.
If given a choice today, and I were in charge of the Apple stores, I probably would still not choose an apple solution for POS. The computing industry is absolutely massive and proficiency in one market doesn't necessarily transfer to another.
There are plenty of things about these handheld scanners that are drastically different than an iPhone or touch. For instance, the ones we use at my company are indestructible. You can drop them from 6 feet onto concrete repeatedly, hundreds times in a row, and they won't break. You can take the battery out, replace it with a fresh one, and the device comes back to life on the last screen you left it, and without wifi disruption to the currently open apps. That's right, the system loses no data even without a battery. Oh, and they never crash, ever. They run for years without a single glance by our IT staff. (With the hardware and software combo we run at least)
There are numerous other systems in the apple stores which also don't run on macs. Everything from the security system, the climate control, to probably even the payroll records hosted on an external website. I suppose the POS software/hardware is high profile in the public's eyes, but other than that it really isn't too significant.
Most people are too clueless to give it second though. And the people who are really knowledgeable about these things aren't surprised either. It is only the people in between that find it ironic, the computer savy users who know quite a bit about macs but not about computer use in retail.
I suppose it might be worthwhile if apple wanted to move out of the consumer market and into retail/commercial/industrial. But to do so requires completely redesigning their hardware. The iPhone and touch are horribly suited to most uses in these fields.
And yes, this is coming from a 20 year mac user who absolutely loves his iPhone.
If given a choice today, and I were in charge of the Apple stores, I probably would still not choose an apple solution for POS. The computing industry is absolutely massive and proficiency in one market doesn't necessarily transfer to another.
While your summary of the industry is informative, don't assume that Apple isn't looking into expanded markets with the Touch (and whatever else they might be working on in the labs). This could be a toe in the water for something that might have a 3 to 5 year timeline.
While Apple itself was no huge customer for presentation software, their motivation to create Keynote went far beyond the potential to save a few PowerPoint license fees. Creating a new POS system for use in their own retail stores might be the first step of a larger feasibility study whose goals we haven't been privy to as yet.
Fanboys! X mac! Apple tax!
There, that's better. Dodged a bullet on that one.
It's got a Mac Mini and runs OSX, we had to buy a plug adapter as it's got a US power plug.
We've got one in our store, every night we turn it off by pulling the power plug (It's too much hassle to undo the screws and shut it down) and every morning we turn it on and start the Quicktime movie that loops all day, it's been doing that seven days a week (apart from Christmas day, Good Friday and Today) since 11 July without missing a beat.
Have you tried to use the "Energy Saver" preferences to schedule daily shut down and start ups? That way, it should work completely unattended, and you reduce the risk of drive corruption because of a sudden power cut every day. Apparently it's working fine for you, it's not changing any files, but there is still a risk, pulling the power cord should be a last resort if at all possible.