Since you also have access to the Snow Leopard betas this must mean you're less enthused about Snow Leopard eh?
That is not the case at all. Leopard is leaps and bounds over Windows 7 in pretty much every aspect of usability and Snow Leopard, while far from complete, will be well above Leopard. I just think that from a business standpoint and user satisfaction (not user adulation) aspect Windows 7 will be on target.
Microsoft has a winner in the sense they're giving Apple a run for their money. Microsoft are really playing catchup and learning a LOT from Vista. When Vista came out, they still had the vision of XP times - that Apple wasn't a competitor and anything Microsoft released would be an instant hit.
Not true now and it seems MS knows it.
Personally I find Snow Leopard great to use, but certainly unpolished and in dire need of it. QuickTime X for example - YUK! The concepts there... but they desperately need to get some polish on that thing.
Microsoft has done great work in the plastic surgery on Vista to make it quite good, and their OS is adapting well to the new touch paradigm they're hoping will take the world by storm. It won't, but Bill Gates isn't practical, he's damn ignorant, and his ignorance is still the figurehead of MS. They're doing a good job of working with that though.
Apple needs to do what they promised at the beginning. Nothing new. Just polish.
Lets hope they work fast and bring Snow Leopard to the table without bringing bugs galore and without making their OS a fugly mess... QuickTime X especially.
i'm very excited for windows 7 and I'm glad everyone here isn't completely dismissing it's potential. When vista came out, I saw no reason to upgrade, but with everything I've read on windows 7, it feels ok to go ahead and upgrade.
btw over at other forums I frequent, people are reporting great performance on netbooks using windows 7.
btw over at other forums I frequent, people are reporting great performance on netbooks using windows 7.
That was one of their goals with the OS. Netbooks had to be Linux or XP. As Netbook sales increase it is very important for MS to have their latest OS installed on as many of them. Even cheap notebooks couldn't run Vista very well at all, even with the basic versions installed.
It's about time that MS came up with a decent version of their OS. I am sick and tired of all the limitations of XP (which I must use at work). Also I would like to see this spur Apple on to greater versions of OS X. Competition is good. I just bought a new Mac Book Pro and am loving it by the way!
I am sick and tired of all the limitations of XP (which I must use at work).
Since it's not due until late October and then there is a time in which major companies test and OS, sometimes waiting until a service is released, it may be a long time before you get it.
Even cheap notebooks couldn't run Vista very well at all, even with the basic versions installed.
Not true. Just do a search on YouTube about Vista + netbook and you will see how good Vista performs on PCs with Intel Atom CPUs.
The bad experience most people had with Vista was because of the crapwere installed on a lot of notebooks and because of terrible driver support from hardware manufacturers on the first months after Vista's release. Because almost all improved Vista drivers will work on Windows 7, this isn't an issue this time.
You can make the window borders less transparent by: 1. increase color intensity (windows will be more opaque) or 2. disable transparency or 3. choose Aero Basic or 4. choose Windows Classic. But I would not recommend the last two because they do look ugly IMO.
And you can make the boarder width smaller in the Advanced Display settings. Select the boarder and choose the pixel size.
I'm away from my Windows 7 machine, but I think the Aero Basic looked the same...just no transparency. Some would say Aero is ugly, but some would say the OS X glassy marble stop-light adorned windows are ugly too. It may have been different in Vista, but I don't have Vista installed now (same machine that runs Win7 now). I tried changing the size as you describe very early on. Works fine in classic mode, but not with Aero. Again this could be different in Vista, a friend claimed to be doing it while we talked on the phone. It showed bigger in the preview, but wouldn't go smaller (and I didn't apply bigger, I want SMALLER).
edit: Window Padding is the ticket...and it's called Windows 7 Basic, not Aero Basic.
Not true. Just do a search on YouTube about Vista + netbook and you will see how good Vista performs on PCs with Intel Atom CPUs.
All those netbooks that came with Vista back you up. Oh wait, they didn't. Saying that an OS is great on a netbook until you install and run programs is not "good performance."
All those netbooks that came with Vista back you up. Oh wait, they didn't. Saying that an OS is great on a netbook until you install and run programs is not "good performance."
Why don't you just take a look at the video reviews? HD video playback, MS Office and even some older games do perform very well on an Acer Aspire One or the Lenovo s10. Both came with XP installed but people start to realize that Vista does work very well even with 1 GB of RAM. And the Service Pack 2 that will come in the next days will even improve on this.
I'm away from my Windows 7 machine, but I think the Aero Basic looked the same...just no transparency.
It looks different but more important Aero Glass makes use of your GPU so Vista/7 will run faster because your CPU has not to draw the interface. Aero Basic does not support hardware acceleration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcglinn
I tried changing the size as you describe very early on. Works fine in classic mode, but not with Aero.
If someone wants to reduce the border around the window in aero- right click the destop, choose personalize, click where you change the colour (window colour), advanced setting, you are presented with a drop down menu. The border padding is the one you want to reduce. The 'x' minimize and maximize gets smaller as well.
You can change the font and colour text in the titlebar from here.
After 6 years, wouldn't the revenue be mostly all Net?
Absolutely it would, but how much is MS getting for XP when vendors have the age of XP and Linux hold over their head? Win7 on a netbook will be much more appealing to the consumer and so they can command a higher price-point from vendors. They may still struggle with Linux deployment, we'll have to wait and see.
to be fair, Windows 7 (Vista 2) will be, as someone posted below, the good version of Vista that MS should have released 2 years ago but didn't. it also will slavishly copy many UI details of Mac OS 10.5 - but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. for many Windows users, this will be good enough and greeted with applause. (Apple should run Mac/PC ads that nail it as a copy cat, complete with John Hodgeman holding a big Garfield kitty getting the last word "meow".)
the real question is whether Snow Leopard will jump further ahead in technology and usability vs. Win 7 like Leopard did compared to Vista. what are the important tests of that?
- speed of course is one. not for high powered high-end computers, but the low and middle range products for both Windows and Macs that most people own. and not esoteric bench tests for geeks, but just how it feels everyday for consumers. multitasking will be key here, because everyone does do it often enough, and Win 7 is reportedly not much better than Vista - that is, it's noticeably slow with multitasking. on the flip side, we have no good idea what Apple's new Grand Central technology will deliver. if it's impressive for everyday multitasking, that is a big deal.
- "seamlessness" is another. this is Apple's strong suit, and MS' achilles heel. the question here is really what further enhancements Apple adds to its iTunes/iPod/iPhone/Apple TV ecosystem that hook up with Snow Leopard's new capabilities in ways that really empower the consumer. iPhone 3.0 opens a lot of new doors, which we will see at WWDC in a month. meanwhile, MS is dead in the water until Win Mobile 7 comes out in 2010 (Win Mobile 6.5 really is lipstick on a pig, just a desperate holding action). BTW, resolution independence, much discussed below, in an important technical factor in this. another not mentioned yet is further expansion of MobileMe services.
- along that line, really good full Exchange integration will really matter for enterprise IT. (god, i hate Entourage.)
- then there is security. nevermind the fact Macs have not suffered major security issues to date, Apple needs to take proactive steps to keep it that way, and there are many small but important things Snow Leopard could do in that regard that are unobtrusive and user friendly.
what else?
BTW, i forgot to add price. how much will a Snow Leopard upgrade cost compared to Win 7 ( and for which version?). $300 for Win 7 ultimate? $80 for Snow Leopard? do i see a Windows Tax coming?
Snow Leopard is step one towards a glorious future for the platform. Nothing is going to stop Apple.
Price will stop Apple. Price has led to a 4% Mac world market share.
BTW, Microsoft is the largest Mac software developper outside of Apple. Like every developper, it is provided with regular seeds of Mac OS X. To say that Microsoft is unaware of Mac OS X Snow Leopard's features is a stretch.
IMO, Microsoft knows all that it needs to know about Mac OS X or Snow Leopard, including that price matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinkn00be
I've been a Windows and Mac kid my whole life. I've run both and enjoyed some of Windows stuff.
Win 7 is NICE. I really have enjoyed it from day one, much better than testing Vista. It's not even fair to compare Win 7 to Vista, but sadly Vista did come to existence. While I am much happier with OS X, I wouldn't discredit Win 7 too much. The beta was solid and it's only getting better. I don't foresee this to take back the lost Windows users, but I do see this helping keep the cutomers. I hope this one is successful and lasts as long as XP.
I agree. Windows 7 on Core i7 computers will be the new Windows 95. Apple will be slaughtered, once more.
Apple's greed and contempt for the "not made in Cupertino" will be its demise.
Most buyers don't accept a $500 or $800 price premium for Macs. And most buyers want a quad-core desktop or quad-core mobile CPU with more RAM for a lower price than an outdated, lower spec, slower, dual-core mobile CPU iMac with a relective glass screen.
There is only so much that Mac OS X can do for Apple. Macs must be competitive when comparing price, performance and features. Price, performance and features matter to most buyers.
Comments
In my opinion, MS has a winner here.
Since you also have access to the Snow Leopard betas this must mean you're less enthused about Snow Leopard eh?
Since you also have access to the Snow Leopard betas this must mean you're less enthused about Snow Leopard eh?
That is not the case at all. Leopard is leaps and bounds over Windows 7 in pretty much every aspect of usability and Snow Leopard, while far from complete, will be well above Leopard. I just think that from a business standpoint and user satisfaction (not user adulation) aspect Windows 7 will be on target.
Microsoft has a winner in the sense they're giving Apple a run for their money. Microsoft are really playing catchup and learning a LOT from Vista. When Vista came out, they still had the vision of XP times - that Apple wasn't a competitor and anything Microsoft released would be an instant hit.
Not true now and it seems MS knows it.
Personally I find Snow Leopard great to use, but certainly unpolished and in dire need of it. QuickTime X for example - YUK! The concepts there... but they desperately need to get some polish on that thing.
Microsoft has done great work in the plastic surgery on Vista to make it quite good, and their OS is adapting well to the new touch paradigm they're hoping will take the world by storm. It won't, but Bill Gates isn't practical, he's damn ignorant, and his ignorance is still the figurehead of MS. They're doing a good job of working with that though.
Apple needs to do what they promised at the beginning. Nothing new. Just polish.
Lets hope they work fast and bring Snow Leopard to the table without bringing bugs galore and without making their OS a fugly mess... QuickTime X especially.
btw over at other forums I frequent, people are reporting great performance on netbooks using windows 7.
btw over at other forums I frequent, people are reporting great performance on netbooks using windows 7.
That was one of their goals with the OS. Netbooks had to be Linux or XP. As Netbook sales increase it is very important for MS to have their latest OS installed on as many of them. Even cheap notebooks couldn't run Vista very well at all, even with the basic versions installed.
I am sick and tired of all the limitations of XP (which I must use at work).
Since it's not due until late October and then there is a time in which major companies test and OS, sometimes waiting until a service is released, it may be a long time before you get it.
Even cheap notebooks couldn't run Vista very well at all, even with the basic versions installed.
Not true. Just do a search on YouTube about Vista + netbook and you will see how good Vista performs on PCs with Intel Atom CPUs.
The bad experience most people had with Vista was because of the crapwere installed on a lot of notebooks and because of terrible driver support from hardware manufacturers on the first months after Vista's release. Because almost all improved Vista drivers will work on Windows 7, this isn't an issue this time.
You can make the window borders less transparent by: 1. increase color intensity (windows will be more opaque) or 2. disable transparency or 3. choose Aero Basic or 4. choose Windows Classic. But I would not recommend the last two because they do look ugly IMO.
And you can make the boarder width smaller in the Advanced Display settings. Select the boarder and choose the pixel size.
I'm away from my Windows 7 machine, but I think the Aero Basic looked the same...just no transparency. Some would say Aero is ugly, but some would say the OS X glassy marble stop-light adorned windows are ugly too. It may have been different in Vista, but I don't have Vista installed now (same machine that runs Win7 now). I tried changing the size as you describe very early on. Works fine in classic mode, but not with Aero. Again this could be different in Vista, a friend claimed to be doing it while we talked on the phone. It showed bigger in the preview, but wouldn't go smaller (and I didn't apply bigger, I want SMALLER).
edit: Window Padding is the ticket...and it's called Windows 7 Basic, not Aero Basic.
Not true. Just do a search on YouTube about Vista + netbook and you will see how good Vista performs on PCs with Intel Atom CPUs.
All those netbooks that came with Vista back you up. Oh wait, they didn't. Saying that an OS is great on a netbook until you install and run programs is not "good performance."
All those netbooks that came with Vista back you up. Oh wait, they didn't. Saying that an OS is great on a netbook until you install and run programs is not "good performance."
Why don't you just take a look at the video reviews? HD video playback, MS Office and even some older games do perform very well on an Acer Aspire One or the Lenovo s10. Both came with XP installed but people start to realize that Vista does work very well even with 1 GB of RAM. And the Service Pack 2 that will come in the next days will even improve on this.
Compared to the earlier preview version, the candidate is a surprise as it has multiple new features added late into development.
Those who've used the beta will also notice changes to basic interface features
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Does this mean some "improved" surface UI but still stuck with DLL Hell? Meanwhile apple is completely rewriting OSX into OS XI under the hood.
I'm away from my Windows 7 machine, but I think the Aero Basic looked the same...just no transparency.
It looks different but more important Aero Glass makes use of your GPU so Vista/7 will run faster because your CPU has not to draw the interface. Aero Basic does not support hardware acceleration.
I tried changing the size as you describe very early on. Works fine in classic mode, but not with Aero.
I haven't tried it but found this screenshot today from Windows 7 where the guy has chosen a smaller border size: http://www.abortretryfail.com/neowin/vmware.jpg
Yeah, does not look perfect but it's still beta.
I haven't tried it but found this screenshot today from Windows 7 where the guy has chosen a smaller border size: http://www.abortretryfail.com/neowin/vmware.jpg
Yeah, does not look perfect but it's still beta.
If someone wants to reduce the border around the window in aero- right click the destop, choose personalize, click where you change the colour (window colour), advanced setting, you are presented with a drop down menu. The border padding is the one you want to reduce. The 'x' minimize and maximize gets smaller as well.
You can change the font and colour text in the titlebar from here.
Sorry people, that dumb London Lite Pig flu headline needed some more abuse here, I'm sure we could find 'some' research that supports this.
After 6 years, wouldn't the revenue be mostly all Net?
Absolutely it would, but how much is MS getting for XP when vendors have the age of XP and Linux hold over their head? Win7 on a netbook will be much more appealing to the consumer and so they can command a higher price-point from vendors. They may still struggle with Linux deployment, we'll have to wait and see.
the real question is whether Snow Leopard will jump further ahead in technology and usability vs. Win 7 like Leopard did compared to Vista. what are the important tests of that?
- speed of course is one. not for high powered high-end computers, but the low and middle range products for both Windows and Macs that most people own. and not esoteric bench tests for geeks, but just how it feels everyday for consumers. multitasking will be key here, because everyone does do it often enough, and Win 7 is reportedly not much better than Vista - that is, it's noticeably slow with multitasking. on the flip side, we have no good idea what Apple's new Grand Central technology will deliver. if it's impressive for everyday multitasking, that is a big deal.
- "seamlessness" is another. this is Apple's strong suit, and MS' achilles heel. the question here is really what further enhancements Apple adds to its iTunes/iPod/iPhone/Apple TV ecosystem that hook up with Snow Leopard's new capabilities in ways that really empower the consumer. iPhone 3.0 opens a lot of new doors, which we will see at WWDC in a month. meanwhile, MS is dead in the water until Win Mobile 7 comes out in 2010 (Win Mobile 6.5 really is lipstick on a pig, just a desperate holding action). BTW, resolution independence, much discussed below, in an important technical factor in this. another not mentioned yet is further expansion of MobileMe services.
- along that line, really good full Exchange integration will really matter for enterprise IT. (god, i hate Entourage.)
- then there is security. nevermind the fact Macs have not suffered major security issues to date, Apple needs to take proactive steps to keep it that way, and there are many small but important things Snow Leopard could do in that regard that are unobtrusive and user friendly.
what else?
BTW, i forgot to add price. how much will a Snow Leopard upgrade cost compared to Win 7 ( and for which version?). $300 for Win 7 ultimate? $80 for Snow Leopard? do i see a Windows Tax coming?
Snow Leopard is step one towards a glorious future for the platform. Nothing is going to stop Apple.
Price will stop Apple. Price has led to a 4% Mac world market share.
BTW, Microsoft is the largest Mac software developper outside of Apple. Like every developper, it is provided with regular seeds of Mac OS X. To say that Microsoft is unaware of Mac OS X Snow Leopard's features is a stretch.
IMO, Microsoft knows all that it needs to know about Mac OS X or Snow Leopard, including that price matters.
I've been a Windows and Mac kid my whole life. I've run both and enjoyed some of Windows stuff.
Win 7 is NICE. I really have enjoyed it from day one, much better than testing Vista. It's not even fair to compare Win 7 to Vista, but sadly Vista did come to existence. While I am much happier with OS X, I wouldn't discredit Win 7 too much. The beta was solid and it's only getting better. I don't foresee this to take back the lost Windows users, but I do see this helping keep the cutomers. I hope this one is successful and lasts as long as XP.
I agree. Windows 7 on Core i7 computers will be the new Windows 95. Apple will be slaughtered, once more.
Apple's greed and contempt for the "not made in Cupertino" will be its demise.
Most buyers don't accept a $500 or $800 price premium for Macs. And most buyers want a quad-core desktop or quad-core mobile CPU with more RAM for a lower price than an outdated, lower spec, slower, dual-core mobile CPU iMac with a relective glass screen.
There is only so much that Mac OS X can do for Apple. Macs must be competitive when comparing price, performance and features. Price, performance and features matter to most buyers.