Apple says Psystar holding back info in Mac clone legal case

245678

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 157
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,588member
    I think that if Apple push any harder we might be reading reports in the news about Psystar execs being found chopped up and tossed in the Florida keys.
  • Reply 22 of 157
    sirromsirrom Posts: 32member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by josealva View Post


    It is almost certain that this company has a big financial backer. This company, whose operation initially looked like a scam, must be spending a fortune in lawyer fees. I had read that the owner has a uncle who is a lawyer. I thought that the reason the owner was so bold.



    So they real question: Who is hiding behind Psytar? There are a lot of people with deep pockets out there. But who would have an interest in Psystar succeeding?



    Dell? HP? Acer? I thought about Microsoft wanting to hurt Apple. But if Apple is forced to allow 3rd parties to sell Mac OSX computers, that is potentially a greater threat to MS than Apple in its current state. I am almost certain a PC vendor is backing Psysar, but who??



    That is the fascinating story here. Will we ever know? Will someone let something slip or leak out?



    Drum roll please.....



    I will now reveal Pystar's secret backer: Palm
  • Reply 23 of 157
    It seems to me that there is a serious player behind this. However, I just can't shake the feeling the M$ is in fact behind this. THink this through for a second, NONE of the Manufactures out there have the capital right now to be funding this operation; not Acer, HP, Dell, or even Sony. However, M$ does have a lot of capital to be throwing around. I can think of a few reasons why this is the case:



    1) This case is a major thorn in Apple's side. Apple does not want to lose its tight integration of hardware and software, so Apple is going to make sure that doesn't happen. That is a resource drain.

    2) This is a distraction. Apple's legal forces are focused on Psystar right now. Who knows what things M$ may want to steal from Apple while this is going on.

    3) IF Psystar somehow wins this case, M$ has another revenue stream, at the expense of Apple.
  • Reply 24 of 157
    sirromsirrom Posts: 32member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SirROM View Post


    Drum roll please.....



    I will now reveal Pystar's secret backer: Palm



    I was just kidding. It's really Forrest Gump
  • Reply 25 of 157
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,588member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStink View Post


    Well, that's what I thought at first, but the key difference here is Psystar isn't some company trying to introduce an original product while Apple stomps them. They are a shoestring operation (as someone pointed out) that's meant to disrupt Apple sales.



    Look at these specs:



    Psystar:

    OSX 10.5 w/ iLife & iWork

    2.83GHz C2Q Q9550

    8GB DDR2-800

    1TB HDD

    20x DVD burner

    9800GT 512mb

    802.11n

    Keyboard/Mouse

    Three year warranty on parts and support

    Add in a $300 monitor from newegg and the final price is 2032.98.



    Comparatively from Apple:

    2.66 Quad Xeon

    3GB 1066DDR3

    1TB HDD (same as above, 7200 rpm SATA)

    nvidia Gt 120 512mb

    keyboard/mouse

    802.11n

    iWork 09

    No monitor mind you, all for 2698.00



    Either Psystar isn't turning a profit, or Apple is inflating the price substantially. I think it's somewhere in the middle.



    Of course Psystar has had to spend $0.00 in R & D and design and don't need to factor in support costs etc, they are just churning out a beige box capable of running a hacked version of OS X. Any company can make a knockoff and sell it cheaper for ANY product. Would sir like a Gucci wallet for $5, honest its the real deal



    You pay peanuts you get...
  • Reply 26 of 157
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SirROM View Post


    Drum roll please.....



    I will now reveal Pystar's secret backer: Palm



    No way. Palm doesn't have the resources to have this legal battle continuing. This is truely a battle of Attrition: how much cash can we siphon off from Apple.
  • Reply 27 of 157
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston View Post


    It seems to me that there is a serious player behind this. However, I just can't shake the feeling the M$ is in fact behind this. THink this through for a second, NONE of the Manufactures out there have the capital right now to be funding this operation; not Acer, HP, Dell, or even Sony. However, M$ does have a lot of capital to be throwing around. I can think of a few reasons why this is the case:



    I don't see it. A company like Psystar doesn't require billions to run. It probably doesn't even take millions. This is a glorified screwdriver shop. If someone is bankrolling Psystar, it certainly doesn't have to be Microsoft, or one of the big OEMs. It could be almost anyone with a few hundred grand and a grudge.
  • Reply 28 of 157
    le studiosle studios Posts: 199member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    Apple: the New Microsoft.



    Sounds catchy.



    Naw Apple is better than Microcopy I mean Microsoft.
  • Reply 29 of 157
    le studiosle studios Posts: 199member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I don't see it. A company like Psystar doesn't require billions to run. It probably doesn't even take millions. This is a glorified screwdriver shop. If someone is bankrolling Psystar, it certainly doesn't have to be Microsoft, or one of the big OEMs. It could be almost anyone with a few hundred grand and a grudge.



    Just the lability factor though meaning the company that was bankrolling will be liable and have strong chance losing money because of this too. The Court Fines! LOL!
  • Reply 30 of 157
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jwervel16 View Post


    Wow, he repeated that sentence 90 times in third-person? Grueling.



    Perhaps you should look up "redacted" in the dictionary.



    I personally hate the entire concept of the EULA. I think a legitimate copy of OS X should be able to be installed on a PC and sold. Sure it won't work as well since OS X was designed to be used on Apple hardware, but that's the tradeoff. More competition, especially in the OS realm where there are only a few players to begin with, is never a bad thing.



    Psystar doesn't even seem to be trying to win this case though and is wasting everyone's time who is involved.
  • Reply 31 of 157
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston View Post


    It seems to me that there is a serious player behind this. However, I just can't shake the feeling the M$ is in fact behind this.

    [...]

    3) IF Psystar somehow wins this case, M$ has another revenue stream, at the expense of Apple.



    What revenue stream is that? Getting a a couple nickels from every unofficial Mac clone that Psystar sells?



    If Psystar wins this case, everyone loses, Psystar loses, the consumer loses, Apple loses, but MS loses the most. They risk losing their grasp on the PC vendors who know have a viable alternative for an OS and one that the consumers will pay more.
  • Reply 32 of 157
    skipjakkskipjakk Posts: 4member
    Could they have a PC side to their business that their using to subsidize the Mac clone business?
  • Reply 33 of 157
    le studiosle studios Posts: 199member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStink View Post


    Well, that's what I thought at first, but the key difference here is Psystar isn't some company trying to introduce an original product while Apple stomps them. They are a shoestring operation (as someone pointed out) that's meant to disrupt Apple sales.



    Look at these specs:



    Psystar:

    OSX 10.5 w/ iLife & iWork

    2.83GHz C2Q Q9550

    8GB DDR2-800

    1TB HDD

    20x DVD burner

    9800GT 512mb

    802.11n

    Keyboard/Mouse

    Three year warranty on parts and support

    Add in a $300 monitor from newegg and the final price is 2032.98.



    Comparatively from Apple:

    2.66 Quad Xeon

    3GB 1066DDR3

    1TB HDD (same as above, 7200 rpm SATA)

    nvidia Gt 120 512mb

    keyboard/mouse

    802.11n

    iWork 09

    No monitor mind you, all for 2698.00



    Either Psystar isn't turning a profit, or Apple is inflating the price substantially. I think it's somewhere in the middle.





    Key thing is without a Mac OS X then what? This is no different then a Blank CD but until you burn it with music then it become of value. This also boil down to Microsoft Windows Vista vs Apple Mac OS X Tiger which one is better with the configuration? One more example! You buy Metallica album from Amazon as a MP3 that Variable bit rate up to 160Kbps then burn it to a CD; then buy the same Metallica album from iTunes that's MPEG-4 AAC (iTunes Plus) at a Constant 256Kbps then burn that to a CD, so which one will sound better? The one from iTunes of course!
  • Reply 34 of 157
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Perhaps Psystar doesn't want to produce any financial statements because they haven't got any. I wouldn't be surprised -- this seems like a real shoestring operation.





    Shoestring operation is right, which is why Apple wants to see who else is behind financing this two bit operation. It's probably that billionaire, capitalism good for me, socialism good for you, George Soros. He's got his crooked hands into everything!
  • Reply 35 of 157
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I don't see it. A company like Psystar doesn't require billions to run. It probably doesn't even take millions. This is a glorified screwdriver shop. If someone is bankrolling Psystar, it certainly doesn't have to be Microsoft, or one of the big OEMs. It could be almost anyone with a few hundred grand and a grudge.



    This has been going on Since July of 2008. It is May of 2009. That is A lot of Man-Hours which has to be paid. Lawyers are not going to wait around to be paid for this. So you have to have a constant revenue stream to pay for it. Since I believe that Psystar isn't even close to being able to pay the lawyer costs by itself, it has to have a backer. Depending upon the number of lawyers dedicated to the case (and by the story's implications, it does seem to be quite a few), that is # of lawyers X $$$ X # of hours dedicated to it = BIG CASH AMOUNT.



    This is far bigger than just some guy with a grudge.



    Example (a very small example):

    3 Lawyers

    3 full days a week (roughly 960 hours = 10 months, 4 weeks in a month, 3 days a week, 8 hour days)

    $100 / hour



    3 * 960 * 100 = $288,000... as of present.



    More likely example:

    10 Lawyers

    5 days a week (1,600 hours)

    $200 / hour



    10 * 1600 * $200 = $3,200,000 .... In Lawyer Costs alone. That doesn't include (potential) damages...
  • Reply 36 of 157
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by josealva View Post


    So they real question: Who is hiding behind Psytar?



  • Reply 37 of 157
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston View Post


    This has been going on Since July of 2008. It is May of 2009. That is A lot of Man-Hours which has to be paid. Lawyers are not going to wait around to be paid for this. So you have to have a constant revenue stream to pay for it. Since I believe that Psystar isn't even close to being able to pay the lawyer costs by itself, it has to have a backer. Depending upon the number of lawyers dedicated to the case (and by the story's implications, it does seem to be quite a few), that is # of lawyers X $$$ X # of hours dedicated to it = BIG CASH AMOUNT.



    This is far bigger than just some guy with a grudge.



    Not necessarily. Lawyers often take on cases like these on contingency, especially when big corporations are the targets. They hope for a settlement out of court, from which they typically get half or more. And from the briefs I've read in this case so far, it seems the lawyers for Psystar aren't exactly sweating the legal details. The entire antitrust angle was so much pie in the sky. I suspect they're trying to grind away until Apple gets sick of dealing with the thing, and pays them to go away. I suspect they've miscalculated.



    As for how Psystar stays afloat, I have no idea. But it couldn't cost that much to keep the doors open, at least nominally. Can you still order a computer from them, or is it "light's on but nobody's home"?
  • Reply 38 of 157
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,070member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStink View Post


    Well, that's what I thought at first, but the key difference here is Psystar isn't some company trying to introduce an original product while Apple stomps them. They are a shoestring operation (as someone pointed out) that's meant to disrupt Apple sales.



    Look at these specs:



    Psystar:

    OSX 10.5 w/ iLife & iWork

    2.83GHz C2Q Q9550

    8GB DDR2-800

    1TB HDD

    20x DVD burner

    9800GT 512mb

    802.11n

    Keyboard/Mouse

    Three year warranty on parts and support

    Add in a $300 monitor from newegg and the final price is 2032.98.



    Comparatively from Apple:

    2.66 Quad Xeon

    3GB 1066DDR3

    1TB HDD (same as above, 7200 rpm SATA)

    nvidia Gt 120 512mb

    keyboard/mouse

    802.11n

    iWork 09

    No monitor mind you, all for 2698.00



    Either Psystar isn't turning a profit, or Apple is inflating the price substantially. I think it's somewhere in the middle.



    Hm, I can not follow your math here. Apple uses a much more expensive CPU (retail price approx. 780 USD for the Xeon vs. 330 USD for the C2Q, both cost less in batches though), a chassis that is for sure 2-3 times more expensive, better and more expensive RAM, etc.

    This comparison does not indicate any price inflation by Apple. If you consider the consumer's position when having warranty issues with a company that does not even know its own financials... it is only the Psystar product that is overpriced here (unless, of course, they offer something like more than 250 Genius Bars, free training lessons, included world-wide warranty and the guarantee that OS updates will work for at least 5-6 years).
  • Reply 39 of 157
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmnikricket View Post


    Perhaps you should look up "redacted" in the dictionary.



    I personally hate the entire concept of the EULA. I think a legitimate copy of OS X should be able to be installed on a PC and sold. Sure it won't work as well since OS X was designed to be used on Apple hardware, but that's the tradeoff. More competition, especially in the OS realm where there are only a few players to begin with, is never a bad thing.



    Psystar doesn't even seem to be trying to win this case though and is wasting everyone's time who is involved.



    In what way does forcing Apple to let any company modify and resell OS X create "more competition" among operating systems?



    Psystar is not offering a new OS, they are not offering any form of competition in the OS market. They are simply modifying and reselling the operating system developed over the last 30 years by Apple.



    It is reasonable to assume that Apple only charges $129.00 for their operating system because they subsizie many costs by selling Apple designed hardware packages along with the OS. Apple's entire philosophy is offering a complete package. Apple has expressed no interest in doing what their chief competitor does, which is to rely on 3rd party hardware vendors to build systems for users.



    Given the reality that Apple has the highest consumer satisfaction ratings in the industry, we can assume that they are correct in their approach. If you do not want what Apple is offering, you have other options.



    The anti-trust argument was thrown out from the very begging.
  • Reply 40 of 157
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post


    Hm, I can not follow your math here. Apple uses a much more expensive CPU (retail price approx. 780 USD for the Xeon vs. 330 USD for the C2Q, both cost less in batches though), a chassis that is for sure 2-3 times more expensive, better and more expensive RAM, etc.

    This comparison does not indicate any price inflation by Apple. If you consider the consumer's position when having warranty issues with a company that does not even know its own financials... it is only the Psystar product that is overpriced here (unless, of course, they offer something like more than 250 Genius Bars, free training lessons, included world-wide warranty and the guarantee that OS updates will work for at least 5-6 years).



    The fans in the Mac Pro are quite, the mother board isn't off the shelf, then there is the fine tuning of the engineering and the additional cost of "going Green" that Apple now has to follow being the leader of premium computers. There is the cost of support* and all the little costs that have to figured out and pushed to each device, like marketing, legalese, etc.



    That is not to say that the machine iStink priced is not a good value for the money, just that it comes with some cavets that make it less ideal for many people. This applies to the big box makers, too.



    * Pretty much all the parts in the Psystar machine will come with a 1-year, 3-year, lifetime or somewhere-in-between warranty, but these aren't expensive for the component OEMs to offer as they require you to send in the component on your dime, not theres, which makes it less likely that you will do it even if you know the fault is in their component.
Sign In or Register to comment.