Is it me, or does this difference look like it could be attributed to a foggy lens or something. The differences are very significant, even in the really hot spots where you would expect there to be a hardware limitation. The night shot seems to be really improved when you compare the light sources. I just don't see how the difference can be explained without considering the lens quality/properties when used. Maybe it's just shutter speed differences in the firmware.
As for video. I just had a revelation. I'll bet you anything that Apple will watermark captured video with the Apple logo in the bottom right corner. Something really small, but enough to show up in a Youtube post. You can turn off the feature, of course, just like you can in iDVD.
As for video. I just had a revelation. I'll bet you anything that Apple will watermark captured video with the Apple logo in the bottom right corner. Something really small, but enough to show up in a Youtube post. You can turn off the feature, of course, just like you can in iDVD.
How do you turn off the obnoxious byline in emails "sent from my iPhone/iPod"?
Testing out new features doesn't work that way because of the amount of Q&A involved with every release before it gets sent to the public. It is far easier to have fewer releases with more features that are better tested than to constantly be testing new features incrementally. The problem arises when features are interdependent on each other and it's all too easy for something to break.
[QUOTE=melgross;1412848]But we don't know if it's done, do we?
It's better to do it all at once, so that all can be tested together, and third party developers don't have to go crazy trying their apps with every insignificant update.
/QUOTE]
Having worked in software development for about 20 years, i fully agree with these points. For there to be any hope of ongoing quality in complex firmware / software, you have to bundle and test large pieces of functionality together. Not to mention what quick releases of small updates would do to the 3rd party developers. I'm sure we don't want a bunch of App Store applications to fail on a regular basis.
It's a dramatic difference! Maybe they upgraded the firmware on the actual camera sensor as well? Seems too drastic being only the camera app. Either way, great work!
instead of being stuck with horrid software, like on the Treo 750, knowing that things could be improved, apple is actually making the first phones they sold BETTER.
.
There is no need to go BETTER when your phone already comes with video, texting ,texting pics- ALREADY!
Thank you, iStink - well said. Now tell that to all the other haters who nitpick about individual features lacking from the iPhone while they neglect the "big picture." It's quite obvious that at least 17 million people are willing to overlook a small number of individual features in exchange for a superior overall experience.
But what I am annoyed by is that at the same time Apple is claiming to be "working on it," etc., there are 3rd party solutions that Apple won't let be in the App store that improve the picture quality and allow video. Why would that be? I honestly don't get it. BTW, never chalk up to conspiracy what you can explain by incompetence, even at a great company like Apple. :-)
There is no need to go BETTER when you phone already comes with video, texting ,texting pics- ALREADY!
But like he said, at least Apple is committed to updating their software on a regular basis. Yes, Palm devices have more bullet point features they can brag about, but their software is stuck in 1998 with no true upgrade to it. It got so bad Palm themselves ditched it in favor of the horrendous Windows Mobile. It shouldn't take over 10 years for Palm to finally come out with a new OS when the Palm Pre finally hits this summer. At least Apple will continue to do whatever they can to make their platform better instead of just sitting on the laurels on watch the rest of the business catch up and leave them in the dust.
But what I am annoyed by is that at the same time Apple is claiming to be "working on it," etc., there are 3rd party solutions that Apple won't let be in the App store that improve the picture quality and allow video. Why would that be? I honestly don't get it. BTW, never chalk up to conspiracy what you can explain by incompetence, even at a great company like Apple. :-)
Could it have anything to do with demands on the processor or memory? Battery Life?
I think it's cool they can make the camera better through better programming, but I don't think it's cool that they package it up and wait 2 years to attempt to do so.
The suggestion that they waited two years to release this camera update doesn't make sense. The camera has been getting updates from the start, this just happens to be the most dramatic we've seen.
Quote:
Maybe another 2 years from now they'll allow flash and that'll be just another little incentive not to jump ship when the contract expires.
That will be impossible to the current phones as a flash will require a HW addition. If you meant Adobe Flash Apple has stated that they aren't opposed to Flash, but that they Adobe to make a decent version first. They can't even make a decent version for Macs and I don't think any of the TV streaming sites will stream to Flash Lite.
Quote:
I wish HTC would take a lesson from Apple and update their camera on the touch pro. It's a decent camera for a phone, but it definitely has much more potential.
Apple is rumoured to be using at least a 3.2mpx camera with the next iPhone, but it will never be as good as other smartphones that are double its thickness. Nokia will continue to dominate in that area for the foreseeable future. they have the skills and they have no problem making a phone around a decent camera, while Apple is only intent on using a camera that fits into it's slim phone design. Different methodologies, each with their pros and cons.
Quote:
This IS just software. People can say it's an artificial limitation, but it could also just be a planned upgrade. There is such thing as a software development life cycle, and some SDLC's last longer than others. Why hold back the release of a good phone because one piece of the software isn't finished?
This is the going to be the third major release of the iPhone OS, which all iPhones will get. That means people out of contract with the original iPhone, going into the 3rd year of usage will be getting this free update. All of that is very atypical.
Quote:
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release?
So Apple releases a 230MB update for little updates daily? That doesn't seem sensible. Apple uses many frameworks and there are changes throughout the system that would make a complex updater app more problematic than just creating making some meaningful changes and then issuing a periodic update.
Quote:
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
I have never worked for a good company that allowed it's teams to "lollygag" in the way you describe. If they finish one feature set for the iPhone then they should be improving it or working on other things for future updates.
While it's interesting that they "look better" now, it also rather sad that 2 years later with the same camera only now produces better results. Video could have also been captured with the same camera- no doubt. In other words it's not the camera but the software that was lacking- as I've always stated but was struck down by the fanboyz.
But what I am annoyed by is that at the same time Apple is claiming to be "working on it," etc., there are 3rd party solutions that Apple won't let be in the App store that improve the picture quality and allow video. Why would that be? I honestly don't get it. BTW, never chalk up to conspiracy what you can explain by incompetence, even at a great company like Apple. :-)
Don't you find it a bit ironic that the company that invented Quicktime has no video capture on its phone from the get go?
Now tell that to all the other haters who nitpick about individual features lacking from the iPhone while they neglect the "big picture." It's quite obvious that at least 17 million people are willing to overlook a small number of individual features in exchange for a superior overall experience.
The "big picture" is that Apple's focus is not your focus. It sounds like you would fit best into an Android phone. Apple has made smartphones popular outside the tech geek and business community by focusing on a small feature set that works well (for the most part) and expanding from there. This is how they dominated in the PMP market with their iPod. Not from having excessive features that are hard to use and may not work well when you do you use, but from a focus of simplicity for the average user. It doesn't have to fit your needs, Apple isn't making the only smartphone out there. They don't have the fastest CPU, nor the most storage capacity, nor the most options, nor the best camera, etc. There are great Nokias, HTCs, Blackberries and many different OSes to choose from.
Seriously -take your blinders off. That statment is a joke. It's pictures were the same if not slightly worse than some cameras with the same specs. And now it's better (improved). If it was so great why did it need to be improved?
If you're just going to make stuff up I won't bother talking to you at all.
The general consensus at the time was that for a camera with that number of pixels and that type of lens, that the pictures captured were "excellent" and quite above the quality expected other phone cameras using the same parts. There were several detailed examinations published with comparisons of image quality etc., but I'm not going to look them up for you.
I also had a cellphone at the time iPhone came out, that used the same quality/type of sensor and cost 400 bucks new that couldn't take a picture even half as good. The images were smaller, the compression was out of this world, and the blurry-ness and pixelation were obvious and highly noticeable. I'm sure you could point to some obscure Nokia phone available in Europe that took better pictures, but that's not the point. The point is what the average or typical camera phone pic looked like before the iPhone came along, and it wasn't pretty.
The iPhone camera as it is today is hardly a super-duper camera, but it's head and shoulders above what the norm was before it's arrival. The difference between iPhone snaps and the average flip-phone cell photo has been noted over and over again by many people besides myself.
My point was that the work done on the iPhone camera was very good indeed and for you to diss the new 3.0 version, (before it's even out!), by implying that the old version was sloppy work, or no work at all, and that it could have all been magically done years ago is utter nonsense.
You really need to go to College or something or perhaps take a class in logic. Your assertion that "If it was so great why did it need to be improved?" is utter tripe. By that logic, nothing ever need ever be improved, changed, etc. It's something only a grade-schooler would say seriously.
Comments
As for video. I just had a revelation. I'll bet you anything that Apple will watermark captured video with the Apple logo in the bottom right corner. Something really small, but enough to show up in a Youtube post. You can turn off the feature, of course, just like you can in iDVD.
As for video. I just had a revelation. I'll bet you anything that Apple will watermark captured video with the Apple logo in the bottom right corner. Something really small, but enough to show up in a Youtube post. You can turn off the feature, of course, just like you can in iDVD.
How do you turn off the obnoxious byline in emails "sent from my iPhone/iPod"?
Testing out new features doesn't work that way because of the amount of Q&A involved with every release before it gets sent to the public. It is far easier to have fewer releases with more features that are better tested than to constantly be testing new features incrementally. The problem arises when features are interdependent on each other and it's all too easy for something to break.
[QUOTE=melgross;1412848]But we don't know if it's done, do we?
It's better to do it all at once, so that all can be tested together, and third party developers don't have to go crazy trying their apps with every insignificant update.
/QUOTE]
Having worked in software development for about 20 years, i fully agree with these points. For there to be any hope of ongoing quality in complex firmware / software, you have to bundle and test large pieces of functionality together. Not to mention what quick releases of small updates would do to the 3rd party developers. I'm sure we don't want a bunch of App Store applications to fail on a regular basis.
but this is the beauty of the iPhone.
instead of being stuck with horrid software, like on the Treo 750, knowing that things could be improved, apple is actually making the first phones they sold BETTER.
.
There is no need to go BETTER when your phone already comes with video, texting ,texting pics- ALREADY!
the differences between pictures seem indeed to be introduced by digital processing. No cheating is seen.
.....>>No cheating is seen<<<<
and you know this how ..?
Thank you, iStink - well said. Now tell that to all the other haters who nitpick about individual features lacking from the iPhone while they neglect the "big picture." It's quite obvious that at least 17 million people are willing to overlook a small number of individual features in exchange for a superior overall experience.
But what I am annoyed by is that at the same time Apple is claiming to be "working on it," etc., there are 3rd party solutions that Apple won't let be in the App store that improve the picture quality and allow video. Why would that be? I honestly don't get it. BTW, never chalk up to conspiracy what you can explain by incompetence, even at a great company like Apple. :-)
.....>>No cheating is seen<<<<
and you know this how ..?
GraphicConverter, dude, GraphicConverter... Ever heard of?
There is no need to go BETTER when you phone already comes with video, texting ,texting pics- ALREADY!
But like he said, at least Apple is committed to updating their software on a regular basis. Yes, Palm devices have more bullet point features they can brag about, but their software is stuck in 1998 with no true upgrade to it. It got so bad Palm themselves ditched it in favor of the horrendous Windows Mobile. It shouldn't take over 10 years for Palm to finally come out with a new OS when the Palm Pre finally hits this summer. At least Apple will continue to do whatever they can to make their platform better instead of just sitting on the laurels on watch the rest of the business catch up and leave them in the dust.
But what I am annoyed by is that at the same time Apple is claiming to be "working on it," etc., there are 3rd party solutions that Apple won't let be in the App store that improve the picture quality and allow video. Why would that be? I honestly don't get it. BTW, never chalk up to conspiracy what you can explain by incompetence, even at a great company like Apple. :-)
Could it have anything to do with demands on the processor or memory? Battery Life?
I think it's cool they can make the camera better through better programming, but I don't think it's cool that they package it up and wait 2 years to attempt to do so.
The suggestion that they waited two years to release this camera update doesn't make sense. The camera has been getting updates from the start, this just happens to be the most dramatic we've seen.
Maybe another 2 years from now they'll allow flash and that'll be just another little incentive not to jump ship when the contract expires.
That will be impossible to the current phones as a flash will require a HW addition. If you meant Adobe Flash Apple has stated that they aren't opposed to Flash, but that they Adobe to make a decent version first. They can't even make a decent version for Macs and I don't think any of the TV streaming sites will stream to Flash Lite.
I wish HTC would take a lesson from Apple and update their camera on the touch pro. It's a decent camera for a phone, but it definitely has much more potential.
Apple is rumoured to be using at least a 3.2mpx camera with the next iPhone, but it will never be as good as other smartphones that are double its thickness. Nokia will continue to dominate in that area for the foreseeable future. they have the skills and they have no problem making a phone around a decent camera, while Apple is only intent on using a camera that fits into it's slim phone design. Different methodologies, each with their pros and cons.
This IS just software. People can say it's an artificial limitation, but it could also just be a planned upgrade. There is such thing as a software development life cycle, and some SDLC's last longer than others. Why hold back the release of a good phone because one piece of the software isn't finished?
This is the going to be the third major release of the iPhone OS, which all iPhones will get. That means people out of contract with the original iPhone, going into the 3rd year of usage will be getting this free update. All of that is very atypical.
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release?
So Apple releases a 230MB update for little updates daily? That doesn't seem sensible. Apple uses many frameworks and there are changes throughout the system that would make a complex updater app more problematic than just creating making some meaningful changes and then issuing a periodic update.
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
I have never worked for a good company that allowed it's teams to "lollygag" in the way you describe. If they finish one feature set for the iPhone then they should be improving it or working on other things for future updates.
While it's interesting that they "look better" now, it also rather sad that 2 years later with the same camera only now produces better results. Video could have also been captured with the same camera- no doubt. In other words it's not the camera but the software that was lacking- as I've always stated but was struck down by the fanboyz.
All they need was the following code:
10 IF PHOTO = LOUSY THEN GOTO 30
20 IF PHOTO = GOOD THEN GOTO 40
30 MAKE PHOTO = BETTER THEN GOTO 10
40 END
Why did this take 2 YEARS???
But what I am annoyed by is that at the same time Apple is claiming to be "working on it," etc., there are 3rd party solutions that Apple won't let be in the App store that improve the picture quality and allow video. Why would that be? I honestly don't get it. BTW, never chalk up to conspiracy what you can explain by incompetence, even at a great company like Apple. :-)
Don't you find it a bit ironic that the company that invented Quicktime has no video capture on its phone from the get go?
All they need was the following code:
10 IF PHOTO = LOUSY THEN GOTO 30
20 IF PHOTO = GOOD THEN GOTO 40
30 MAKE PHOTO = BETTER THEN GOTO 10
40 END
Why did this take 2 YEARS???
Because iPhone both HOBBY and A BAG OF HURT?
Now tell that to all the other haters who nitpick about individual features lacking from the iPhone while they neglect the "big picture." It's quite obvious that at least 17 million people are willing to overlook a small number of individual features in exchange for a superior overall experience.
The "big picture" is that Apple's focus is not your focus. It sounds like you would fit best into an Android phone. Apple has made smartphones popular outside the tech geek and business community by focusing on a small feature set that works well (for the most part) and expanding from there. This is how they dominated in the PMP market with their iPod. Not from having excessive features that are hard to use and may not work well when you do you use, but from a focus of simplicity for the average user. It doesn't have to fit your needs, Apple isn't making the only smartphone out there. They don't have the fastest CPU, nor the most storage capacity, nor the most options, nor the best camera, etc. There are great Nokias, HTCs, Blackberries and many different OSes to choose from.
Seriously -take your blinders off. That statment is a joke. It's pictures were the same if not slightly worse than some cameras with the same specs. And now it's better (improved). If it was so great why did it need to be improved?
If you're just going to make stuff up I won't bother talking to you at all.
The general consensus at the time was that for a camera with that number of pixels and that type of lens, that the pictures captured were "excellent" and quite above the quality expected other phone cameras using the same parts. There were several detailed examinations published with comparisons of image quality etc., but I'm not going to look them up for you.
I also had a cellphone at the time iPhone came out, that used the same quality/type of sensor and cost 400 bucks new that couldn't take a picture even half as good. The images were smaller, the compression was out of this world, and the blurry-ness and pixelation were obvious and highly noticeable. I'm sure you could point to some obscure Nokia phone available in Europe that took better pictures, but that's not the point. The point is what the average or typical camera phone pic looked like before the iPhone came along, and it wasn't pretty.
The iPhone camera as it is today is hardly a super-duper camera, but it's head and shoulders above what the norm was before it's arrival. The difference between iPhone snaps and the average flip-phone cell photo has been noted over and over again by many people besides myself.
My point was that the work done on the iPhone camera was very good indeed and for you to diss the new 3.0 version, (before it's even out!), by implying that the old version was sloppy work, or no work at all, and that it could have all been magically done years ago is utter nonsense.
You really need to go to College or something or perhaps take a class in logic. Your assertion that "If it was so great why did it need to be improved?" is utter tripe. By that logic, nothing ever need ever be improved, changed, etc. It's something only a grade-schooler would say seriously.
How do you turn off the obnoxious byline in emails "sent from my iPhone/iPod"?
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