Why would Apple go to the trouble of building a different phone (I'm sure they work hard at maximising power efficiency, so its not a trivial exercise) for a shrinking 10% of the market? They should care because it happens to be 50% of their home market? There are many more customers outside the US than in.
The cell phone market in the U.S. is saturated - fine.
I expect that Apple's growth will come from people who DON'T have a smartphone but want the functionality of an iPhone. Cool apps, some email, surfing etc.
So what percentage of cell phone users don't have smart phones. That should be where Apple's growth comes from in the future.
How often do you really call customer service? I've been a Sprint customer for more than a decade. The only time I've dealt with their customer service is when they've called me to offer a new phone, better plan or the occasional thank you and free month of service. Frankly, after my third year with them, they've seemed desperate to keep me happy...even sent me cookies and gift certificates.
That's a given, but Sprint really *is* better once you get your phone setup. How often do you really call customer service? I've been a Sprint customer for more than a decade. The only time I've dealt with their customer service is when they've called me to offer a new phone, better plan or the occasional thank you and free month of service. Frankly, after my third year with them, they've seemed desperate to keep me happy...even sent me cookies and gift certificates.
Serious question...other than getting your phone activated or getting service turned off, why would you need to call customer service? Lost your phone? Feeling lonely?
Agreed. I have had an excellent experience dealing with Sprint myself, though not as awesome as what you describe. I only quoted research which indicates Sprint CS is lacking, but that it is also improving. Furthermore, cell service is much more important to my overall experience than how long I am kept on hold during a call. In my experience, Sprint's CS is indistinguishable from AT&T's CS.
Account management over the internet is already possible and alleviates the need for most calls to CS. Heck, even the AT&T iPhone app released this past week has the ability to change plan details.
Why would Apple go to the trouble of building a different phone (I'm sure they work hard at maximising power efficiency, so its not a trivial exercise) for a shrinking 10% of the market? They should care because it happens to be 50% of their home market? There are many more customers outside the US than in.
CDMA is dead. Even the phone companies agree.
It's not a whole different phone. Everything is the same but the radio chipset and the firmware that talks to it.
It probably isn't rocket science to make a CDMA iPhone.
How often do you find yourself calling customer service?
I've been on Sprint with my Treo 650 since 2005 and I've had to call customer service zero (0) times. Yes, ZERO.
Their network is incredibly reliable and I've had absolutely no problems with them.
Everyone seems to complain about how bad Sprint's customer service is, but... Seriously, why are you calling customer service so much?
Wow, feel the Sprint love!!! LOL!
Wait til they fuck up something on your bill or account, you'll find out exactly how often you'll have to call them and how long it'll take them to correct it. Then be sure to check back and tell us why you get to call them so often!
Over two years ago I bought a phone from Sprint. They sent the wrong model, and I shipped it back to them while they sent the right one. Regardless of the fact that they acknowledged receiving the return, it took seventeen months for them to stop billing me the full, unsubsidized price. And, just for fun, they reported the delinquent account to the credit bureaus for seventeen months.
One of the guys who works for me changed over from the retail plan to the corporate discount plan here at work (15% off). Every month he calls them to get it corrected, every month they say they will correct it and issue him a credit for the 15%, and every subsequent month they bill him the full amount! LOL! And we have a corporate account with them, including dedicated account reps!
If Sprint hasn't screwed up your account in some way, consider yourself lucky!
FWIW, the actual cellular service (including what little EV-DO they actually have around here) is pretty good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWork
Account management over the internet is already possible and alleviates the need for most calls to CS. Heck, even the AT&T iPhone app released this past week has the ability to change plan details.
Account management over the internet works like account management where you call up and "press 1 for English"... You are fine as long as you only need the answers they are programmed to give you. And I doubt the AT&T app will be any better at this than anybody else's, since you can't even sign up for account management with the account management app!
Citibank... Citi... Oh, that so-called bank whose stock is worth pennies. Their forecasting wasn't very good about this. And why do they say the cellular market is tanking? Because people aren't making money? Hey, they have cell phones in India. Maybe the rates should come down. Wireless broadband, working on the bandwidth vacated by the old tv channels, will be coming on soon. Tbe phones get better and better? And what does Citibank have for progress? A new kind of "financial instrument"? Or "creative financing."
It probably isn't rocket science to make a CDMA iPhone.
Of course its not rocket science, its about supply chains and distribution. The iPhone succeeds specifically because there aren't 18 models that all work somewhat differently.
Any iPhone can work anywhere in the world with a properly programmed SIM card.
You'll get the convergence you are looking for anyway in about two years when everyone (but Sprint) rolls out their LTE networks. At that point, everyone including Verizon is starting from scratch. So you get the additional network at a time when everyone has to rebuy their phones. Why mess with that now, when the interim problem is really getting AT&T to update their 3G network to faster data speeds and better coverage areas right now (which is underway today)?
The insurmountable problem with Sprint is that their customer service is terrible.
I disagree. I would argue that most of the people who complain about their customer service are always doing stupid crap. Going over their minutes, then complaining about the charges, going over their texting, etc.... I think the bigger issue is Sprint may have crappier customers since they offer phones to people with little or no credit. Also it doesn't help that boost mobile is stealing customers from Sprint.
I have been a Sprint customer for more then 7 years, and I've had to call their customer service only about 12 times in that span. I've only had a few minor billing issues, however I used to call the Nextel Corporate line (note sure if its still around) and they were very helpful.
Honestly, I have great Sprint reception where I'm at and my buddy with AT&T has issues with his reception.
I would be highly interested in a CDMA iPhone.
Quote:
You'll get the convergence you are looking for anyway in about two years when everyone (but Sprint) rolls out their LTE networks.
I've read reports suggesting that Wimax and LTE can potentially run off the same hardware, and I know Sprint was quoted as saying they were always investigating all of the wireless technologies of the future. Then again, who knows what will happen.
Why on earth would I want to do that? CDMA is a superior technology.
All things being equal, CDMA may or may not be a superior technology for voice calls but HSDPA is a far superior technology to EV-DO for cellular data.
I do not hear good things about Sprint, but their everything for $80 a month (I think) is a pretty good deal.
I was with Voicestream then T-Mobile for many years. They have THE BEST customer service by far. If they could build out their 3G and Apple would make a compatible phone, I would be back in a second. LOVED THEM-and they are cheap-much cheaper than AT$T.
I was with Omnipoint>Voicestream>T-Mobile and always had good customer service with them. My problem was that my service kept getting worse and worse over the years at my home and finally, when my last contract was up, I moved to AT&T, partially for service but also for the iPhone 3G and have 4 bars up from 1 to maybe two. T-Mobile is very slow to build out their network and haven't upgraded my service area in 10 years.
I'm amazed with some of you. Seriously. First of all, (lets go on this long shot assumption) lets say Apple does decide to go with Verizon Wireless. Why do any of you think that they would then abandon GSM? What kind of logic is that? Second, who cares where this so called study comes from? In the end, it's complete LOGIC that Apple will eventually have to expand to other US carriers. If you HONESTLY believe that this is not necessary and only AT&T is fine, then I seriously would LOVE to smoke what you are smoking. Why? Because at some point, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for Apple to expand and sell more iPhones. There's an ENORMOUS percentage of Americans that will NEVER leave their wireless networks and yet desire an iPhone. Do you honestly believe that Apple will continue to hold them out? Give me a break.
The only way long term for Apple to double their U.S. sales is to open the device up to other carriers. It is a 100% certainty that this will happen.
The real question is WHEN. Will Apple make a CDMA phone? Maybe not, but it really is not that difficult at all. Will Apple stick with only one model of the iPhone? Highly doubtful. Why? Look at their iPod lines: multiple products for multiple types of consumers. Look at their notebook line; their Mac line. It won't be any different on the iPhone side.
I can somewhat understand (barely) the Apple cult. Heck, some accuse me of being one of them, but AT&T cult? I'm seriously flabbergasted.
I disagree. I would argue that most of the people who complain about their customer service are always doing stupid crap. Going over their minutes, then complaining about the charges, going over their texting, etc.... I think the bigger issue is Sprint may have crappier customers since they offer phones to people with little or no credit. Also it doesn't help that boost mobile is stealing customers from Sprint.
I vowed never to go back to Cingular, but then they got the iPhone so I thought I'd give it the 30-day trail. It was great so I kept it. I'm now on the iPhone 3G and believe that my issues with carriers is that I only called them when I was already frustrated, usually with the crappy phone I had. Occasionally I'd have a bill related issue, but not often.
Quote:
I would be highly interested in a CDMA iPhone.
Many people would but I don't think it's likely. If Apple is still tying the device to specific carriers through the world despite having gotten their new product off the ground and most countries being all GSM-based, then thinking that they'd make a CDMA-based version for the US while screwing AT&T is not likely. They need the carriers they team with so they can control their product and its environment.
Quote:
I've read reports suggesting that Wimax and LTE can potentially run off the same hardware, and I know Sprint was quoted as saying they were always investigating all of the wireless technologies of the future. Then again, who knows what will happen.
They can make HW that has both, they do it with CDMA/GSM/CDMA2000/WCDMA chips but they are larger and more costly. But it's pretty pointless for most people's needs as WiMAX is far from an established standard. It had it's chance to reign supreme and failed. The best we'll probably find are PC cards with LTE and WiMAX included, but I am sure they will be pricey.
Wait til they fuck up something on your bill or account, you'll find out exactly how often you'll have to call them and how long it'll take them to correct it. Then be sure to check back and tell us why you get to call them so often!
Over two years ago I bought a phone from Sprint. They sent the wrong model, and I shipped it back to them while they sent the right one. Regardless of the fact that they acknowledged receiving the return, it took seventeen months for them to stop billing me the full, unsubsidized price. And, just for fun, they reported the delinquent account to the credit bureaus for seventeen months.
One of the guys who works for me changed over from the retail plan to the corporate discount plan here at work (15% off). Every month he calls them to get it corrected, every month they say they will correct it and issue him a credit for the 15%, and every subsequent month they bill him the full amount! LOL! And we have a corporate account with them, including dedicated account reps!
If Sprint hasn't screwed up your account in some way, consider yourself lucky!
FWIW, the actual cellular service (including what little EV-DO they actually have around here) is pretty good.
I'm sure there are people with their horror stories from AT&T, Alltel, US Cellular, T-Mobile, and Verizon among others...
but who could forget "Verizon Math" see link below... it's over 27 minutes, but it's priceless!
I plan to be first in line the day Verizon offers an iPhone. AT&T sucks in my area.
It's not your area; AT&T coverage is horrible all over. If you look at their coverage maps, it shows they are pretty good. Too bad the maps are horribly inaccurate (that being a kindness... if I were feeling ruder, I would say that they are outright lies).
I live in a major US city and travel quite a bit. Here and everywhere else I go, my coverage is awful.
Then there are the times when my iPhone shows a full five bars, but calls to me go straight to voicemail... as if the signal is there but the tower forgot that my phone was talking to it. Same for "instant" messages, which sometimes take hours to arrive, despite my phone thinking it has coverage.
As far as I can tell, AT&T knows their coverage is horrible, so their solution to the problem is to advertise how wonderful their coverage is. I guess that's cheaper than building towers.
When I see other people using their bloop-bloop phones, I shiver at the thought of going back to that last-century paradigm of mobile telephony. But I keep wondering if the iPhone is really worth having to put up with the horrible AT&T coverage. After all, a phone which can't make/receive calls isn't so useful. I may be better off with a cheapo phone from another carrier and an iPod Touch. But then I love the mobile internet on my iPhone. I just wish Apple would ditch AT&T ASAP.
Comments
CDMA is dead. Even the phone companies agree.
I expect that Apple's growth will come from people who DON'T have a smartphone but want the functionality of an iPhone. Cool apps, some email, surfing etc.
So what percentage of cell phone users don't have smart phones. That should be where Apple's growth comes from in the future.
How often do you really call customer service? I've been a Sprint customer for more than a decade. The only time I've dealt with their customer service is when they've called me to offer a new phone, better plan or the occasional thank you and free month of service. Frankly, after my third year with them, they've seemed desperate to keep me happy...even sent me cookies and gift certificates.
Heh, get out of my head!
That's a given, but Sprint really *is* better once you get your phone setup. How often do you really call customer service? I've been a Sprint customer for more than a decade. The only time I've dealt with their customer service is when they've called me to offer a new phone, better plan or the occasional thank you and free month of service. Frankly, after my third year with them, they've seemed desperate to keep me happy...even sent me cookies and gift certificates.
Serious question...other than getting your phone activated or getting service turned off, why would you need to call customer service? Lost your phone? Feeling lonely?
Agreed. I have had an excellent experience dealing with Sprint myself, though not as awesome as what you describe. I only quoted research which indicates Sprint CS is lacking, but that it is also improving. Furthermore, cell service is much more important to my overall experience than how long I am kept on hold during a call. In my experience, Sprint's CS is indistinguishable from AT&T's CS.
Account management over the internet is already possible and alleviates the need for most calls to CS. Heck, even the AT&T iPhone app released this past week has the ability to change plan details.
Why would Apple go to the trouble of building a different phone (I'm sure they work hard at maximising power efficiency, so its not a trivial exercise) for a shrinking 10% of the market? They should care because it happens to be 50% of their home market? There are many more customers outside the US than in.
CDMA is dead. Even the phone companies agree.
It's not a whole different phone. Everything is the same but the radio chipset and the firmware that talks to it.
It probably isn't rocket science to make a CDMA iPhone.
How often do you find yourself calling customer service?
I've been on Sprint with my Treo 650 since 2005 and I've had to call customer service zero (0) times. Yes, ZERO.
Their network is incredibly reliable and I've had absolutely no problems with them.
Everyone seems to complain about how bad Sprint's customer service is, but... Seriously, why are you calling customer service so much?
Wow, feel the Sprint love!!! LOL!
Wait til they fuck up something on your bill or account, you'll find out exactly how often you'll have to call them and how long it'll take them to correct it. Then be sure to check back and tell us why you get to call them so often!
Over two years ago I bought a phone from Sprint. They sent the wrong model, and I shipped it back to them while they sent the right one. Regardless of the fact that they acknowledged receiving the return, it took seventeen months for them to stop billing me the full, unsubsidized price. And, just for fun, they reported the delinquent account to the credit bureaus for seventeen months.
One of the guys who works for me changed over from the retail plan to the corporate discount plan here at work (15% off). Every month he calls them to get it corrected, every month they say they will correct it and issue him a credit for the 15%, and every subsequent month they bill him the full amount! LOL! And we have a corporate account with them, including dedicated account reps!
If Sprint hasn't screwed up your account in some way, consider yourself lucky!
FWIW, the actual cellular service (including what little EV-DO they actually have around here) is pretty good.
Account management over the internet is already possible and alleviates the need for most calls to CS. Heck, even the AT&T iPhone app released this past week has the ability to change plan details.
Account management over the internet works like account management where you call up and "press 1 for English"... You are fine as long as you only need the answers they are programmed to give you. And I doubt the AT&T app will be any better at this than anybody else's, since you can't even sign up for account management with the account management app!
It probably isn't rocket science to make a CDMA iPhone.
Of course its not rocket science, its about supply chains and distribution. The iPhone succeeds specifically because there aren't 18 models that all work somewhat differently.
Any iPhone can work anywhere in the world with a properly programmed SIM card.
You'll get the convergence you are looking for anyway in about two years when everyone (but Sprint) rolls out their LTE networks. At that point, everyone including Verizon is starting from scratch. So you get the additional network at a time when everyone has to rebuy their phones. Why mess with that now, when the interim problem is really getting AT&T to update their 3G network to faster data speeds and better coverage areas right now (which is underway today)?
The insurmountable problem with Sprint is that their customer service is terrible.
I disagree. I would argue that most of the people who complain about their customer service are always doing stupid crap. Going over their minutes, then complaining about the charges, going over their texting, etc.... I think the bigger issue is Sprint may have crappier customers since they offer phones to people with little or no credit. Also it doesn't help that boost mobile is stealing customers from Sprint.
I have been a Sprint customer for more then 7 years, and I've had to call their customer service only about 12 times in that span. I've only had a few minor billing issues, however I used to call the Nextel Corporate line (note sure if its still around) and they were very helpful.
Honestly, I have great Sprint reception where I'm at and my buddy with AT&T has issues with his reception.
I would be highly interested in a CDMA iPhone.
You'll get the convergence you are looking for anyway in about two years when everyone (but Sprint) rolls out their LTE networks.
I've read reports suggesting that Wimax and LTE can potentially run off the same hardware, and I know Sprint was quoted as saying they were always investigating all of the wireless technologies of the future. Then again, who knows what will happen.
Why on earth would I want to do that? CDMA is a superior technology.
All things being equal, CDMA may or may not be a superior technology for voice calls but HSDPA is a far superior technology to EV-DO for cellular data.
God I hate AT&T-but I hate Verizon just as much.
I do not hear good things about Sprint, but their everything for $80 a month (I think) is a pretty good deal.
I was with Voicestream then T-Mobile for many years. They have THE BEST customer service by far. If they could build out their 3G and Apple would make a compatible phone, I would be back in a second. LOVED THEM-and they are cheap-much cheaper than AT$T.
I was with Omnipoint>Voicestream>T-Mobile and always had good customer service with them. My problem was that my service kept getting worse and worse over the years at my home and finally, when my last contract was up, I moved to AT&T, partially for service but also for the iPhone 3G and have 4 bars up from 1 to maybe two. T-Mobile is very slow to build out their network and haven't upgraded my service area in 10 years.
The only way long term for Apple to double their U.S. sales is to open the device up to other carriers. It is a 100% certainty that this will happen.
The real question is WHEN. Will Apple make a CDMA phone? Maybe not, but it really is not that difficult at all. Will Apple stick with only one model of the iPhone? Highly doubtful. Why? Look at their iPod lines: multiple products for multiple types of consumers. Look at their notebook line; their Mac line. It won't be any different on the iPhone side.
I can somewhat understand (barely) the Apple cult. Heck, some accuse me of being one of them, but AT&T cult? I'm seriously flabbergasted.
w00master
I disagree. I would argue that most of the people who complain about their customer service are always doing stupid crap. Going over their minutes, then complaining about the charges, going over their texting, etc.... I think the bigger issue is Sprint may have crappier customers since they offer phones to people with little or no credit. Also it doesn't help that boost mobile is stealing customers from Sprint.
I vowed never to go back to Cingular, but then they got the iPhone so I thought I'd give it the 30-day trail. It was great so I kept it. I'm now on the iPhone 3G and believe that my issues with carriers is that I only called them when I was already frustrated, usually with the crappy phone I had. Occasionally I'd have a bill related issue, but not often.
I would be highly interested in a CDMA iPhone.
Many people would but I don't think it's likely. If Apple is still tying the device to specific carriers through the world despite having gotten their new product off the ground and most countries being all GSM-based, then thinking that they'd make a CDMA-based version for the US while screwing AT&T is not likely. They need the carriers they team with so they can control their product and its environment.
I've read reports suggesting that Wimax and LTE can potentially run off the same hardware, and I know Sprint was quoted as saying they were always investigating all of the wireless technologies of the future. Then again, who knows what will happen.
They can make HW that has both, they do it with CDMA/GSM/CDMA2000/WCDMA chips but they are larger and more costly. But it's pretty pointless for most people's needs as WiMAX is far from an established standard. It had it's chance to reign supreme and failed. The best we'll probably find are PC cards with LTE and WiMAX included, but I am sure they will be pricey.
Wait til they fuck up something on your bill or account, you'll find out exactly how often you'll have to call them and how long it'll take them to correct it. Then be sure to check back and tell us why you get to call them so often!
Over two years ago I bought a phone from Sprint. They sent the wrong model, and I shipped it back to them while they sent the right one. Regardless of the fact that they acknowledged receiving the return, it took seventeen months for them to stop billing me the full, unsubsidized price. And, just for fun, they reported the delinquent account to the credit bureaus for seventeen months.
One of the guys who works for me changed over from the retail plan to the corporate discount plan here at work (15% off). Every month he calls them to get it corrected, every month they say they will correct it and issue him a credit for the 15%, and every subsequent month they bill him the full amount! LOL! And we have a corporate account with them, including dedicated account reps!
If Sprint hasn't screwed up your account in some way, consider yourself lucky!
FWIW, the actual cellular service (including what little EV-DO they actually have around here) is pretty good.
I'm sure there are people with their horror stories from AT&T, Alltel, US Cellular, T-Mobile, and Verizon among others...
but who could forget "Verizon Math" see link below... it's over 27 minutes, but it's priceless!
http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2007...-customer.html
What about Europe? A larger market than the USA.
What about China and India?
Sometimes these analysts are just retarded.
http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2007...-customer.html
OMG! I've never heard that before. How absolutely nerve racking for that guy. It's like a conversation with Teckstud.
I plan to be first in line the day Verizon offers an iPhone. AT&T sucks in my area.
It's not your area; AT&T coverage is horrible all over. If you look at their coverage maps, it shows they are pretty good. Too bad the maps are horribly inaccurate (that being a kindness... if I were feeling ruder, I would say that they are outright lies).
I live in a major US city and travel quite a bit. Here and everywhere else I go, my coverage is awful.
Then there are the times when my iPhone shows a full five bars, but calls to me go straight to voicemail... as if the signal is there but the tower forgot that my phone was talking to it. Same for "instant" messages, which sometimes take hours to arrive, despite my phone thinking it has coverage.
As far as I can tell, AT&T knows their coverage is horrible, so their solution to the problem is to advertise how wonderful their coverage is. I guess that's cheaper than building towers.
When I see other people using their bloop-bloop phones, I shiver at the thought of going back to that last-century paradigm of mobile telephony. But I keep wondering if the iPhone is really worth having to put up with the horrible AT&T coverage. After all, a phone which can't make/receive calls isn't so useful. I may be better off with a cheapo phone from another carrier and an iPod Touch. But then I love the mobile internet on my iPhone. I just wish Apple would ditch AT&T ASAP.
Jailbreakers have won!
What did they win? When did they win it?
You realize this isn't a product announcement, right?