<strong>So why isn't Apple including fink with X11?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple's head BSD dude Jordan Hubbard is working on a competitor to fink called darwin-ports that is more in the tradition of the BSD family. fink is based on apt-get from Debian.
can you post a screenshot of this please? maybe with M$ Office open to compare
thanks (note: I want to see openoffice in Apple's X11, I want to see if it is aqua)
TIA</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am working on the screenshot, not sure If I can or not. However, I can say it is not fully Aqua, only the title bar, the rest looks like OpenOffice, very Windows like. For free, I will not complain.
Apple's X11 is really cool. There remain only two questions:
How do I create dock icons (preferably on the left side) that will launch apps, such as xchat? Typing "xchat &" in the Terminal surely works, but launching such apps using the Dock is cooler
And: By renaming the US keyboard layout to "USA.keymapping.bak" and creating a symlink from the German keyboard layout to the former name of the US one, I managed to make X11 use *mostly* the German keyboard layout. Mostly: the German umlauts and some other stuff don't work! Any way to get a "proper" German keymapping file for X11?
Its a shame that it isn't easier to get a version of X windows to work on os X. After reading up on Apple's X11, it looked like my aging G4 tower would now be able to run x programs at a decent clip.
To install and configure the required packages, it is necessary to visit a half dozen web sites and follow detailed instructions. If the steps aren't completed in the correct order, users must clean out the installations and begin again. I would bet that if we tested a hundred OS X users, only 2 or 3 would be able to complete the installation process and be able to start up x based applications.
What we really need is a meta-installer comprised of download, installation, and configuration scripts. Something similar to ChimeraKnight could prove quite popular. It checks the versions of what you are running and displays the read-me of updates found on the net. If installation is desired, one button tells the program to uninstall previous versions, and then downloads, installs, configures, and relaunches the new version. The installer could also include a link to x app packages. With safari and the new web-disc-image format, unskilled users wouldn't even have to know which windowing system an app is using!
<strong>How do I create dock icons (preferably on the left side) that will launch apps, such as xchat? Typing "xchat &" in the Terminal surely works, but launching such apps using the Dock is cooler </strong><hr></blockquote>
AppleScript!
Find & open script editor which should give you a new untitled document. There's two text boxes. In the lower one, type:
[code]
do shell script "xchat &"
</pre><hr></blockquote>
(Or whatever you like in the shell script)
Save as a run-only application to the desktop (or hide it wherever you like), drag the icon to the dock (after you make it something you can remember with an icon tool
You can make your script much more elaborate if you like (checking to see if X11.app is running might be a plan but that should work.
Uunfortunately, I'm one of the 97-98 confused users. To run fink X-windows apps with Apple's X11 you need xfree86, right? First I followed the instructions on the xfree86 website, did an [sudo apt-get install xfree86-base], which led to a 40MB download followed by a refusal to install xfree86 because it detected an X11 install (Apple's) already present.
Then I tried following the instructions above [sudo apt-get install system-xfree86] and I get the following error:
<strong>Uunfortunately, I'm one of the 97-98 confused users. To run fink X-windows apps with Apple's X11 you need xfree86, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No. xfree86 is a free implementation of X11R6, the latest version of XWindows. Apple's X11 is a port of xfree86 to OS X, directly competing to the XDarwin project.
Install Apple's X11 and you already have everything needed to run basic X11 apps. Basic because most apps will actually need additional libraries such as toolkits like Gtk or Qt.
<strong>so why does fink ask you to install xfree86- base when i try to install an application?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because fink doesn't find xfree86 in its directory structure. That is why you need to install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 is a placeholder in fink's system for any version of xfree86 not installed by fink that tells it that the dependencies are all there.
Because fink doesn't find xfree86 in its directory structure. That is why you need to install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 is a placeholder in fink's system for any version of xfree86 not installed by fink that tells it that the dependencies are all there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is there any way to circumvent this, maybe putting alises to the apple installation?
Because fink doesn't find xfree86 in its directory structure. That is why you need to install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 is a placeholder in fink's system for any version of xfree86 not installed by fink that tells it that the dependencies are all there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Pardon this insanely stupid question, but...
...where do I get system-xfree86? and how do I install it?
Go to the fink homepage and check for instructions for installing the fink base. Once you're done setting it all up, type "fink install system-xfree86".
Comments
<strong>So why isn't Apple including fink with X11?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple's head BSD dude Jordan Hubbard is working on a competitor to fink called darwin-ports that is more in the tradition of the BSD family. fink is based on apt-get from Debian.
read more at
<a href="http://www.opendarwin.org/"; target="_blank">http://www.opendarwin.org/</a>;
<a href="http://www.opendarwin.org/projects/darwinports/"; target="_blank">http://www.opendarwin.org/projects/darwinports/</a>;
It's still beta but the first link has some double clickable .pkg installers for unix programs that work with X11
edit: note that some packages depend on others being installed and the installer won't check for you.
[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: stupider...likeafox ]</p>
<strong>Installed X11 and then Installed OpenOffice 1.0.1 Beta</strong><hr></blockquote>
can you post a screenshot of this please? maybe with M$ Office open to compare
thanks (note: I want to see openoffice in Apple's X11, I want to see if it is aqua)
TIA
<strong>
can you post a screenshot of this please? maybe with M$ Office open to compare
thanks (note: I want to see openoffice in Apple's X11, I want to see if it is aqua)
TIA</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am working on the screenshot, not sure If I can or not. However, I can say it is not fully Aqua, only the title bar, the rest looks like OpenOffice, very Windows like. For free, I will not complain.
How do I create dock icons (preferably on the left side) that will launch apps, such as xchat? Typing "xchat &" in the Terminal surely works, but launching such apps using the Dock is cooler
And: By renaming the US keyboard layout to "USA.keymapping.bak" and creating a symlink from the German keyboard layout to the former name of the US one, I managed to make X11 use *mostly* the German keyboard layout. Mostly: the German umlauts and some other stuff don't work! Any way to get a "proper" German keymapping file for X11?
How can I tell if an app is compatible with Apple's X11?
What apps are you guys using in X11?
Is there a good site for X11 apps?
Do I need to compile X11 apps or are they in "friendly" installer packages?
<strong>Where can I get a few apps for X11 that will install easy?
Is there a good site for X11 apps?
Do I need to compile X11 apps or are they in "friendly" installer packages?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I am pretty new to this but I can answer these three questions. You want <a href="http://fink.sourceforge.net"; target="_blank">fink</a>.
The good people at fink are busy porting X11 apps to OSX. They have a fairly automated system for getting apps, either in binary or source form.
You should probably read their documentation, but here are the steps.
1 Download Apple's X11 SDK from Apple's sight and install it (it is a standard .pkg on a standard .dmg).
2 Download and install Fink from the Fink website.
3 create a text file named .cshrc in your home directory with the following line in it
source /sw/bin/init.csh
4 open Terminal (if it is already open you will have to quit and open it again) and type:
sudo apt-get update
it will ask for your password and probably spit out a bunch of other garbage
5 type:
sudo apt-get install system-xfree86
you will get a bunch more garbage and a few questions to which you can safely answer the default
6 type:
fink list
You will get a list of applications you can install
you can then type
sudo apt-get install appName
where appName is whatever you want to install
If you just want to play with something more exciting than an xterm, try gimp (a photoshop-like app)...
7 type
sudo apt-get install gimp
you get lots of garbage, maybe have to type a password and answer the default to a few questions.
8 start x11
9 type:
gimp &
into your xterm
Enjoy
To install and configure the required packages, it is necessary to visit a half dozen web sites and follow detailed instructions. If the steps aren't completed in the correct order, users must clean out the installations and begin again. I would bet that if we tested a hundred OS X users, only 2 or 3 would be able to complete the installation process and be able to start up x based applications.
What we really need is a meta-installer comprised of download, installation, and configuration scripts. Something similar to ChimeraKnight could prove quite popular. It checks the versions of what you are running and displays the read-me of updates found on the net. If installation is desired, one button tells the program to uninstall previous versions, and then downloads, installs, configures, and relaunches the new version. The installer could also include a link to x app packages. With safari and the new web-disc-image format, unskilled users wouldn't even have to know which windowing system an app is using!
Any charitable programmers out there?
<strong>How do I create dock icons (preferably on the left side) that will launch apps, such as xchat? Typing "xchat &" in the Terminal surely works, but launching such apps using the Dock is cooler
AppleScript!
Find & open script editor which should give you a new untitled document. There's two text boxes. In the lower one, type:
[code]
do shell script "xchat &"
</pre><hr></blockquote>
(Or whatever you like in the shell script)
Save as a run-only application to the desktop (or hide it wherever you like), drag the icon to the dock (after you make it something you can remember with an icon tool
You can make your script much more elaborate if you like (checking to see if X11.app is running might be a plan
<strong>Its a shame that it isn't easier to get a version of X windows to work on os X.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What you're asking for is mostly what fink already offers.
Then I tried following the instructions above [sudo apt-get install system-xfree86] and I get the following error:
[quote] dpkg: error processing /sw/var/cache/apt/archives/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb (--unpack):
subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
/sw/var/cache/apt/archives/system-xfree86_4.2-3_darwin-powerpc.deb
E: Sub-process /sw/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) <hr></blockquote>
Is this related to the difficulties my fink seems to have contacting CVS [fink selfupdate]?
[quote]cvs server: Updating 10.2
cvs update: in directory 10.2/stable:
cvs update: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
cvs server: Updating 10.2/stable
cvs update: cannot write 10.2/stable/.cvsignore: Permission denied
cvs update: in directory 10.2/stable/crypto:
cvs update: cannot open CVS/Entries for reading: No such file or directory
cvs server: Updating 10.2/stable/crypto
cvs update: cannot write 10.2/stable/crypto/.cvsignore: Permission denied
cvs [update aborted]: cannot make directory 10.2/stable/crypto/finkinfo: No such file or directory
### execution of su failed, exit code 1
Failed: Updating using CVS failed. Check the error messages above.<hr></blockquote>
[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: Towel ]</p>
<strong>Where can I get a few apps for X11 that will install easy? I want to play with X11, but XTerm isnt very fun!
Do I need to compile X11 apps or are they in "friendly" installer packages?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you want to just check it out then you can get four double-clickable installs (the gimp, xchat, vim & qthello) from here:
<a href="http://www.opendarwin.org/projects/darwinports/en/x11.php"; target="_blank">http://www.opendarwin.org/projects/darwinports/en/x11.php</a>;
NB make a note of what the app depends on and install that as well.
This is part of a semi-official Apple project that competes with fink and may be merged with the OS at some point.
<strong>Uunfortunately, I'm one of the 97-98 confused users. To run fink X-windows apps with Apple's X11 you need xfree86, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No. xfree86 is a free implementation of X11R6, the latest version of XWindows. Apple's X11 is a port of xfree86 to OS X, directly competing to the XDarwin project.
Install Apple's X11 and you already have everything needed to run basic X11 apps. Basic because most apps will actually need additional libraries such as toolkits like Gtk or Qt.
[code] [Sat 8:33pm] chris% sudo fink install dillo
Reading package info...
Information about 769 packages read in 6 seconds.
pkg dillo version ###
pkg dillo version 0.6.6-2
fink needs help picking an alternative to satisfy a virtual dependency. The
candidates:
(1) system-xfree86: Placeholder package for manually installed XFree86
(2) xfree86-base: XFree86 libraries, utilities, clients and data
Pick one: [1]
</pre><hr></blockquote>
<strong>so why does fink ask you to install xfree86- base when i try to install an application?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because fink doesn't find xfree86 in its directory structure. That is why you need to install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 is a placeholder in fink's system for any version of xfree86 not installed by fink that tells it that the dependencies are all there.
<strong>
Because fink doesn't find xfree86 in its directory structure. That is why you need to install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 is a placeholder in fink's system for any version of xfree86 not installed by fink that tells it that the dependencies are all there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is there any way to circumvent this, maybe putting alises to the apple installation?
<strong>
Is there any way to circumvent this, maybe putting alises to the apple installation?</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's what system-xfree86 is for.
<strong>
That's what system-xfree86 is for.
oops, my fault...
<strong>
Because fink doesn't find xfree86 in its directory structure. That is why you need to install system-xfree86. system-xfree86 is a placeholder in fink's system for any version of xfree86 not installed by fink that tells it that the dependencies are all there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Pardon this insanely stupid question, but...
...where do I get system-xfree86? and how do I install it?