Generally for something like this, the more testers there are, the better. If Apple can make money off it, they will do so, plain and simple.
If your testers are actually testing. But if you make it public, you don't get quality testing. You get people who simply can't wait for release date, and if they find a bug, they often don't provide useful information. Just saying "it's broke" doesn't help much.
Fear is the best motivator ever created. The proverbial question is "is it better to be loved or feared?" and the answer is feared. It lasts longer.
Lasting fear is a desirable goal? The question is why do you want to be feared? What end goal are you trying to reach? I'd rather be liked for a short while than feared for longer. Being liked brings respect and friendship. Being feared brings sycophants and avoidance by the rest.
Sure if you've got 500 dollars minimum. Microsoft is allowing people to download Beta and RC releases of Windows 7 to test it out. That's open.
I would expect Select and Premier developers to be able to discuss an OS they're supposed to have their applications ready for.
The secrecy thing is getting a bit old Apple.
The strategies are very different between the two companies. MS has to give out Win7 RC1 right now simply because it fracked up Vista so much. People that have never used Vista say that Vista sucks, even though SP1 fixed a great of the initial issues. Win7 is the same kernel, only slightly updated over Vista, but needs a new name because MS made too many mistakes and the bad taste has stuck. If MS didn't give it out then they wouldn't be able to get the word out sufficiently that Windows is good again.
It's just a marketing strategy, and one that is working for both companies. Apple is much more exciting (and nerve racking) because it is secretive. This is what any company that doesn't have excessive marketshare should do as it creates buzz and the non-public secrets keep massive competitors from trumping their ideas too quickly. MS, on the other hand, has a dominate OS marketshare and so it's best move is to convince people that they have this and that in the works. Whether by a formal press release or a rumour spread through anonymous [but reliable sources close to the company]. That tactic keeps consumers in limbo and may deter less focused competitors from going a road that MS' will dominate.
As Apple gets bigger they will have to let go of the secrets more. They will also have to stagger their releases of HW and SW more. I think they learned a hard lesson last year with the iPhone 3G, iPhone OS v2.0, MobileMe and App Store releases all together. I still people say that MobileMe doesn't work despite working since after the first weekend and the only major issue was the amount of people trying to connect to the service that was pushed with new iPhone sales and was a free, open 60-day trial. Since then, they've staggered releases quite nicely.
PS: AnandTech has a pretty nice review of Windows 7.
I know that Apple does dabble in open-source projects, like WebKit, but do you think that Apple would consider open-sourcing a few of its apps and/or technologies, like maybe Preview/PDFKit? Maybe Apple could test the developer reaction to see if there is any benefit. Heck, what about open-sourcing Calculator? LOL
While I'm happy Apple is doing more in this regard I expect a lot more openess. The fact of the matter is that Apples poor software quality of the last year or two in my mind is directly related to being very closed to outside testing of new software releases. That is testing before being released to the general public. On the negative side access should be open to all developers.
Why all developers, simple actually to catch as many bugs as possible. Let's face it the small time developer is often the one writing unique apps that stress an API in unusal ways. The other thing that Apple would get from maximizing the number of developers involved is a sense of completeness in the APIs. I know an API has to be finite but yet I'm often surprised that Apple makes some things so difficult for developers.
In any event I suspect that the limited access here is to specifically limit information inflow to an amount Apple can easily handle. The reality is that we can see a lot of stress in Apples ability to handle developers in it's app store for iPhone. In many ways they are suffering significant growing pains. So hopefully this is just an incremental improvement that will eventually be reachable by the entire development community.
5. Uninstaller: I disagree with you here. I see all those uninstaller utilities and don't get the point. The most a majority of apps leave behind is a .plist file and maybe some cache. Who cares? A much ado about nothing. It doesn't slow your machine down, and uses next-to-no-space. Windows on the other hand...
I do think there should be an uninstaller Preference Pane in System Preferences. All it would have to do is check some very simple files in the app to find out the file in the Preferences and Application Support files (and where ever else) in Library.
For apps that use a proper install you can choose Show Files from the Menu Bar to see where files are being installed. Since these might get written to and accessed in way that the app will not know about the installer could write to the Uninstaller PrefPane DB about the installation.
Mac users do tend to be more anal about their computer's files, which is probably due to Mac users being more technically savvy than the average Windows user, so I can see how a proper, native installer app would be nice. Sure, you can just delete the app from the Applications folder, but it's not pretty when you access your Library and see remnants of apps that you haven't used, seen or heard about for several years.
Apple has done the beta thing before. They really haven't had any reason lately. None of the OSX division have been radically different and they haven't screwed it up like Microsoft did with Vista. Microsoft has 7 out there as a beta as a way to redeem their image.
Ben ..I don't really think Apple needs a public beta (though it would be fun) but I do think developers need a more loose leash to discuss new OS like Snow Leopard. So I'll consider this a win though if Apple's gonna give an inch ..may as well try to take a mile
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Rick_V_
1. Apps stall: really?! I honestly never experience this, and I routinely use several Macs.
2. Contextual Menus: Again, nothing here. Only "extra" contextual menu I have is what I intentionally installed. Makes me curious what you're installing that's also including this "extra".
3. Cobbled together UI: I agree with you here. I've argued for a looong time that Apple needs to make their UI consistent. Drives me crazy. I'm hoping Snow Leopard fixes that.
4. Notification: you mean like Growl? Having that built-in (so developers can count on it being there) would be cool.
5. Uninstaller: I disagree with you here...
6. niggling things: Yeah agrre, there are always niggling things...
Rick ..first of welcome to the boards.
I do have a lowly 1.66 Mac mini so if I had 2.4Ghz or something I probably wouldn't beach ball as much plus I figure I need a faster HDD too. So I can easily chalk that one up to my own experience with basically the second slowest Intel Mac that Apple has made processor wise.
+1 on the user maintainence. I'm always amazed that I can get out of some glitches by repairing permissions but that seems soo TECHY.
On CM- I like to installe a lot of productivity apps and I notice sometimes they'll install CM stuff (like Evernote, ABFR, DEVONthink etc). I like having this functionality but at the bottom of most CM panels I'd like to see a link for modifying the order of the CM modules. That way I can set up my favorites at the top. Tweaky? Yes but it beats cluttering things up.
I'm totally pumped about Snow Leopard and the greedy person in me wants all the info. Hey i'm a fan...I'm not supposed to be patient.
As for the UI I've got a sneaking suspicion that Apple is going to "unify" things at WWDC and not before. Of course my suspicion likely stems from the multiple AI articles on "Marble" lol.
I use Growl and love it. Though I wish Apple would either buy them out and integrate it into the system (Xcode)
Uninstaller- Don't you find a bunch of folders left over in Application Support and other areas? I'll have look at how much junk is left over. I use App Zapper but I may move to Clean App which has an agent that runs and tracks down more stuff.
I'm totally pumped about Snow Leopard and the greedy person in me wants all the info. Hey i'm a fan...I'm not supposed to be patient.
As for the UI I've got a sneaking suspicion that Apple is going to "unify" things at WWDC and not before. Of course my suspicion likely stems from the multiple AI articles on "Marble"
At this point it's pretty clear that Apple isn't going to change the UI until WWDC. I'm guessing Jobs will make an appearance, too. There are just too many big things happening for him not to show up. I do hope that actually unify the look of the apps this time.
Quote:
Uninstaller- Don't you find a bunch of folders left over in Application Support and other areas? I'll have look at how much junk is left over. I use App Zapper but I may move to Clean App which has an agent that runs and tracks down more stuff.
I don't think it would be hard to make an app or a preference pane, as I stated above, and to have Xcode build in a simple process that auto-saves the different support file locations into a list so the Unistaller can get them easily. Also, being able to instruct a novice user to the Unistaller in the Prference Pane to delete a damaged Plist file that is causing an app to crash is much easier than walking them through ~/Library/Preferences and having them look for an app titles com.developer_name.something.et_cetera.plist. It's just not very Mac-like.
PS: I'd also like a less "scary" disc copying app for Mac OS X. The current method of the Finder to copy to the HDD into a burn folder you create and then burn, or to use Disk Utility is not very mac-like either. WIndows has had a one-button burn since XP.
besides your comment was more amusing and childish than fearing.
Actually I stole that from this guy a long time ago. In Seattle during the summer we have Seafair. The hydroplanes come and race on the lake and everyone comes down to stake out their territory. Well i'm down there with my family and we got a little section for our needs. Over yonder there's this guy and he's taken like a 20x20 section and staked it out with pegs and rope. Upset, this other guys says "you got enough space pal" and they jaw at each other for a bit and finally the guy taking the space says "man if you don't like it just kick my ass". End of discussion, because really is the issue so important that you have to sit there an argue? Often it's not. I don't view it as a threat but rather a reframing of the debate. If i've offended you so egregiously then kick my ass. Otherwise we can just disagree and hopefully dispense with the snarky comments and sniping.
I respect AbsterCore but telling me that I don't know what consumers want is silly when i've been in sales or training for the majority of my career. It's an area I feel comfortable in.
Apple does a good job with their OS and applications from a usability standpoint so they are getting good info from someone but I certainly like them getting developers together to discuss things more. I do agree with Abster that developers tend to be lone wolfs or run in small packs though fostering more sharing only benefits the platform.
This is less about secrecy (just because they are paying $500 does not make them less likely to release information) but more about reducing noise.
What is the purpose of a Beta? Its to improve a product before it is actually released. Unlike MS, Apple does not have unlimited engineering resources (don't forget how little money Apple makes from OS X, the S/W as compared to MS) and so restricting these forums to the "serious few" still gives them enough usage to find most problems, but greatly limits worthless feedback (FTFF!).
Following your rationale, one remains dumbfounded by the poor maintenance and overall quality of M$oft, regarding the enormous amount of money the made and continue, alas, to make with lousy
products, and by the outstanding quality of Apple products developed with so much less money.
But suffice to look and compare the aspects of MM. Jobs and Ballmer to understand the difference of brain power between the two companies.
Hey I only offered my opinon on the state of Apple's "open" attitude towards information about beta OS X versions. I think consumer opinion is a vital piece of information but they have their own views.
Without straying too far off topic parky can you honestly say that you follow the law to the letter because you feel it's the right thing to do morally or are you afraid of the resultant punative damages you may face by getting cited for an infraction. I believe humans want to follow free will but there is no universal free will and thus laws must be made and punishments must be levied if the laws are broken. I've seen studies that show babies win an innate fear of height (you know the one where they put babies on glass covered cubes and the babies tend to follow the cubes and avoid the gaps). Just falling once is enough to generate fear that causes a change in behavior. Fascinating stuff really.
I think you're really going too far here and your whole argument is in danger of collapsing.
I can't speak for parky, but I can honestly say that personally, I "do the right thing" just because it's the right thing, not because of any fear of retribution. The right thing to do is almost always the logical thing to do as well, so it's not necessarily even tied to a person's emotions or religious beliefs. Historically, selfishness always ends in a net negative for the majority of the people involved although it often takes a lot of life lessons for the average individual to internalise that fact.
In the child example, he/she is simply learning that falling is bad, and it's a very poor example for arguing that fear is basic to that kind of learning. If the child is fearful of falling in the first place, then they would never learn the lesson. A child has to be fearless initially and then have the experience of falling at least once. Having learned the lesson of falling one time, it's not fear that motivates them to avoid the edge of a precipice, but simply common sense and logic.
Fear is central to some kinds of rote conditioning, but not learning per se, and certainly not to law or morality.
You have no place to complain about how your OS is running.
I was laughing at you when you said you wanted people to fear you.
After finding out what hardware you run and have the nads to complain...
.....well you really are scary. \
Laughing at me? That must make you feel just peachy doesn't it?
Hey now ...don't talk about my mini. I love my mini. I did buy a C2D 2Ghz proc to put in it but I need to upgrade to a 7200rpm drive as well. But the thing holding me back......fear. Go figure
But let's steer this back on topic a bit. wbrasignton..how "open" should Apple be regarding their beta OS? Could we actually be beyond the point of the "seekrit" feature that leaves us all gobsmacked?
I mean Core Animation is nice but it's not something I simply couldn't compute without.
I'm hoping that Grand Central and OpenCL can be leveraged well.
I'd like to see Apple open up their Mac OS X beta process and keep the mobile stuff secret. The desktop now is just another peer on the network. We've quickly moving to mobile devices being the device we use 16 hrs a day with the desktop/laptop there for the number crunching and in a way home DataCenter.
This developer forum will hopefully produce a lot more juicy info about the interworkings of Snow Leopard than otherwise could be achieved through a scattered developer platform. I don't even know if Grand Central and/or OpenCL have been integrated into SL yet.
... Upset, this other guys says "you got enough space pal" and they jaw at each other for a bit and finally the guy taking the space says "man if you don't like it just kick my ass". End of discussion, because really is the issue so important that you have to sit there an argue? Often it's not. I don't view it as a threat but rather a reframing of the debate. If i've offended you so egregiously then kick my ass. Otherwise we can just disagree and hopefully dispense with the snarky comments and sniping. ...
Man, this is just pathological.
You seriously think that escalating every disagreement to fisticuffs is a logical solution to life's problems?
I guess that means that many women, weak men, invalids, children and pretty much anyone but a big muscled idiot who's willing to fight over nothing are out of luck in general? What a world it would be if we all thought that way. I pity your children.
What if the guy kicking your ass pulls a gun? I guess the answer then is the guy with the biggest gun wins? The more one extrapolates this little philosophy of yours the stupider and nastier it gets.
I generally like some of your comments on this list and respect some of the things you say, but this is just nutty. Methinks you revealed far too much of yourself here. I'll never be able to read you the same way again.
My biggest suggestion is to overall Software Update Server for OSX Server. IT SUCKS BALLS compared to WSUS for Windows Server. You have to perform three distinct steps to get it setup right, it's buggy and it is much more difficult to get running than WSUS.
It needs reporting, it needs the ability to see downloading progress from Apple, it needs basically all the features of WSUS. I shouldn't have to use SUS, and ARD AND have to modify the plist manually on the target machines to check and install updates on the machines remotely.
Add some functionality of SAMBA 3.0 as well so OSX Server can FINALLY be seen as a Active Directory server rather than an NT 4.0 server by Windows Clients. SAMBA 3.0 adds Windows 2000 Server level functionality.
Add true enterprise capability to Open Directory, like high level fail-over redundancy. OD is still far behind AD in terms of Enterprise functionality.
Apple has done the beta thing before. They really haven't had any reason lately. None of the OSX division have been radically different and they haven't screwed it up like Microsoft did with Vista. Microsoft has 7 out there as a beta as a way to redeem their image.
Agreed. Apple's methods have been quite successful so far.
Comments
Generally for something like this, the more testers there are, the better. If Apple can make money off it, they will do so, plain and simple.
If your testers are actually testing. But if you make it public, you don't get quality testing. You get people who simply can't wait for release date, and if they find a bug, they often don't provide useful information. Just saying "it's broke" doesn't help much.
That's false.
Fear is the best motivator ever created. The proverbial question is "is it better to be loved or feared?" and the answer is feared. It lasts longer.
Lasting fear is a desirable goal? The question is why do you want to be feared? What end goal are you trying to reach? I'd rather be liked for a short while than feared for longer. Being liked brings respect and friendship. Being feared brings sycophants and avoidance by the rest.
"open"?
Sure if you've got 500 dollars minimum. Microsoft is allowing people to download Beta and RC releases of Windows 7 to test it out. That's open.
I would expect Select and Premier developers to be able to discuss an OS they're supposed to have their applications ready for.
The secrecy thing is getting a bit old Apple.
The strategies are very different between the two companies. MS has to give out Win7 RC1 right now simply because it fracked up Vista so much. People that have never used Vista say that Vista sucks, even though SP1 fixed a great of the initial issues. Win7 is the same kernel, only slightly updated over Vista, but needs a new name because MS made too many mistakes and the bad taste has stuck. If MS didn't give it out then they wouldn't be able to get the word out sufficiently that Windows is good again.
It's just a marketing strategy, and one that is working for both companies. Apple is much more exciting (and nerve racking) because it is secretive. This is what any company that doesn't have excessive marketshare should do as it creates buzz and the non-public secrets keep massive competitors from trumping their ideas too quickly. MS, on the other hand, has a dominate OS marketshare and so it's best move is to convince people that they have this and that in the works. Whether by a formal press release or a rumour spread through anonymous [but reliable sources close to the company]. That tactic keeps consumers in limbo and may deter less focused competitors from going a road that MS' will dominate.
As Apple gets bigger they will have to let go of the secrets more. They will also have to stagger their releases of HW and SW more. I think they learned a hard lesson last year with the iPhone 3G, iPhone OS v2.0, MobileMe and App Store releases all together. I still people say that MobileMe doesn't work despite working since after the first weekend and the only major issue was the amount of people trying to connect to the service that was pushed with new iPhone sales and was a free, open 60-day trial. Since then, they've staggered releases quite nicely.
PS: AnandTech has a pretty nice review of Windows 7.
I know that Apple does dabble in open-source projects, like WebKit, but do you think that Apple would consider open-sourcing a few of its apps and/or technologies, like maybe Preview/PDFKit? Maybe Apple could test the developer reaction to see if there is any benefit. Heck, what about open-sourcing Calculator? LOL
Chess is open source:
http://www.opensource.apple.com/sour...Chess-109.0.3/
That's false.
Fear is the best motivator ever created. The proverbial question is "is it better to be loved or feared?" and the answer is feared. It lasts longer.
silly rabbit, fear tactics are for losers.
besides your comment was more amusing and childish than fearing.
Why all developers, simple actually to catch as many bugs as possible. Let's face it the small time developer is often the one writing unique apps that stress an API in unusal ways. The other thing that Apple would get from maximizing the number of developers involved is a sense of completeness in the APIs. I know an API has to be finite but yet I'm often surprised that Apple makes some things so difficult for developers.
In any event I suspect that the limited access here is to specifically limit information inflow to an amount Apple can easily handle. The reality is that we can see a lot of stress in Apples ability to handle developers in it's app store for iPhone. In many ways they are suffering significant growing pains. So hopefully this is just an incremental improvement that will eventually be reachable by the entire development community.
Dave
5. Uninstaller: I disagree with you here. I see all those uninstaller utilities and don't get the point. The most a majority of apps leave behind is a .plist file and maybe some cache. Who cares? A much ado about nothing. It doesn't slow your machine down, and uses next-to-no-space. Windows on the other hand...
I do think there should be an uninstaller Preference Pane in System Preferences. All it would have to do is check some very simple files in the app to find out the file in the Preferences and Application Support files (and where ever else) in Library.
For apps that use a proper install you can choose Show Files from the Menu Bar to see where files are being installed. Since these might get written to and accessed in way that the app will not know about the installer could write to the Uninstaller PrefPane DB about the installation.
Mac users do tend to be more anal about their computer's files, which is probably due to Mac users being more technically savvy than the average Windows user, so I can see how a proper, native installer app would be nice. Sure, you can just delete the app from the Applications folder, but it's not pretty when you access your Library and see remnants of apps that you haven't used, seen or heard about for several years.
Apple has done the beta thing before. They really haven't had any reason lately. None of the OSX division have been radically different and they haven't screwed it up like Microsoft did with Vista. Microsoft has 7 out there as a beta as a way to redeem their image.
Ben ..I don't really think Apple needs a public beta (though it would be fun) but I do think developers need a more loose leash to discuss new OS like Snow Leopard. So I'll consider this a win though if Apple's gonna give an inch ..may as well try to take a mile
1. Apps stall: really?! I honestly never experience this, and I routinely use several Macs.
2. Contextual Menus: Again, nothing here. Only "extra" contextual menu I have is what I intentionally installed. Makes me curious what you're installing that's also including this "extra".
3. Cobbled together UI: I agree with you here. I've argued for a looong time that Apple needs to make their UI consistent. Drives me crazy. I'm hoping Snow Leopard fixes that.
4. Notification: you mean like Growl? Having that built-in (so developers can count on it being there) would be cool.
5. Uninstaller: I disagree with you here...
6. niggling things: Yeah agrre, there are always niggling things...
Rick ..first of welcome to the boards.
I do have a lowly 1.66 Mac mini so if I had 2.4Ghz or something I probably wouldn't beach ball as much plus I figure I need a faster HDD too. So I can easily chalk that one up to my own experience with basically the second slowest Intel Mac that Apple has made processor wise.
+1 on the user maintainence. I'm always amazed that I can get out of some glitches by repairing permissions but that seems soo TECHY.
On CM- I like to installe a lot of productivity apps and I notice sometimes they'll install CM stuff (like Evernote, ABFR, DEVONthink etc). I like having this functionality but at the bottom of most CM panels I'd like to see a link for modifying the order of the CM modules. That way I can set up my favorites at the top. Tweaky? Yes but it beats cluttering things up.
I'm totally pumped about Snow Leopard and the greedy person in me wants all the info. Hey i'm a fan...I'm not supposed to be patient.
As for the UI I've got a sneaking suspicion that Apple is going to "unify" things at WWDC and not before. Of course my suspicion likely stems from the multiple AI articles on "Marble" lol.
I use Growl and love it. Though I wish Apple would either buy them out and integrate it into the system (Xcode)
Uninstaller- Don't you find a bunch of folders left over in Application Support and other areas? I'll have look at how much junk is left over. I use App Zapper but I may move to Clean App which has an agent that runs and tracks down more stuff.
I'm totally pumped about Snow Leopard and the greedy person in me wants all the info. Hey i'm a fan...I'm not supposed to be patient.
As for the UI I've got a sneaking suspicion that Apple is going to "unify" things at WWDC and not before. Of course my suspicion likely stems from the multiple AI articles on "Marble"
At this point it's pretty clear that Apple isn't going to change the UI until WWDC. I'm guessing Jobs will make an appearance, too. There are just too many big things happening for him not to show up. I do hope that actually unify the look of the apps this time.
Uninstaller- Don't you find a bunch of folders left over in Application Support and other areas? I'll have look at how much junk is left over. I use App Zapper but I may move to Clean App which has an agent that runs and tracks down more stuff.
I don't think it would be hard to make an app or a preference pane, as I stated above, and to have Xcode build in a simple process that auto-saves the different support file locations into a list so the Unistaller can get them easily. Also, being able to instruct a novice user to the Unistaller in the Prference Pane to delete a damaged Plist file that is causing an app to crash is much easier than walking them through ~/Library/Preferences and having them look for an app titles com.developer_name.something.et_cetera.plist. It's just not very Mac-like.
PS: I'd also like a less "scary" disc copying app for Mac OS X. The current method of the Finder to copy to the HDD into a burn folder you create and then burn, or to use Disk Utility is not very mac-like either. WIndows has had a one-button burn since XP.
silly rabbit, fear tactics are for losers.
besides your comment was more amusing and childish than fearing.
I respect AbsterCore but telling me that I don't know what consumers want is silly when i've been in sales or training for the majority of my career. It's an area I feel comfortable in.
Apple does a good job with their OS and applications from a usability standpoint so they are getting good info from someone but I certainly like them getting developers together to discuss things more. I do agree with Abster that developers tend to be lone wolfs or run in small packs though fostering more sharing only benefits the platform.
This is less about secrecy (just because they are paying $500 does not make them less likely to release information) but more about reducing noise.
What is the purpose of a Beta? Its to improve a product before it is actually released. Unlike MS, Apple does not have unlimited engineering resources (don't forget how little money Apple makes from OS X, the S/W as compared to MS) and so restricting these forums to the "serious few" still gives them enough usage to find most problems, but greatly limits worthless feedback (FTFF!).
Following your rationale, one remains dumbfounded by the poor maintenance and overall quality of M$oft, regarding the enormous amount of money the made and continue, alas, to make with lousy
products, and by the outstanding quality of Apple products developed with so much less money.
But suffice to look and compare the aspects of MM. Jobs and Ballmer
I do have a lowly 1.66 Mac mini......
You have no place to complain about how your OS is running.
I was laughing at you when you said you wanted people to fear you.
After finding out what hardware you run and have the nads to complain...
.....well you really are scary.
What a very sad individual you must be.
Fear is not the way forward.
We live in the bad world we do because of attitudes of selfish people like you.
Fear isn't real ...... it's an elusion that's perceived.
Hey I only offered my opinon on the state of Apple's "open" attitude towards information about beta OS X versions. I think consumer opinion is a vital piece of information but they have their own views.
Without straying too far off topic parky can you honestly say that you follow the law to the letter because you feel it's the right thing to do morally or are you afraid of the resultant punative damages you may face by getting cited for an infraction. I believe humans want to follow free will but there is no universal free will and thus laws must be made and punishments must be levied if the laws are broken. I've seen studies that show babies win an innate fear of height (you know the one where they put babies on glass covered cubes and the babies tend to follow the cubes and avoid the gaps). Just falling once is enough to generate fear that causes a change in behavior. Fascinating stuff really.
I think you're really going too far here and your whole argument is in danger of collapsing.
I can't speak for parky, but I can honestly say that personally, I "do the right thing" just because it's the right thing, not because of any fear of retribution. The right thing to do is almost always the logical thing to do as well, so it's not necessarily even tied to a person's emotions or religious beliefs. Historically, selfishness always ends in a net negative for the majority of the people involved although it often takes a lot of life lessons for the average individual to internalise that fact.
In the child example, he/she is simply learning that falling is bad, and it's a very poor example for arguing that fear is basic to that kind of learning. If the child is fearful of falling in the first place, then they would never learn the lesson. A child has to be fearless initially and then have the experience of falling at least once. Having learned the lesson of falling one time, it's not fear that motivates them to avoid the edge of a precipice, but simply common sense and logic.
Fear is central to some kinds of rote conditioning, but not learning per se, and certainly not to law or morality.
You have no place to complain about how your OS is running.
I was laughing at you when you said you wanted people to fear you.
After finding out what hardware you run and have the nads to complain...
.....well you really are scary.
Laughing at me? That must make you feel just peachy doesn't it?
Hey now ...don't talk about my mini. I love my mini. I did buy a C2D 2Ghz proc to put in it but I need to upgrade to a 7200rpm drive as well. But the thing holding me back......fear. Go figure
But let's steer this back on topic a bit. wbrasignton..how "open" should Apple be regarding their beta OS? Could we actually be beyond the point of the "seekrit" feature that leaves us all gobsmacked?
I mean Core Animation is nice but it's not something I simply couldn't compute without.
I'm hoping that Grand Central and OpenCL can be leveraged well.
I'd like to see Apple open up their Mac OS X beta process and keep the mobile stuff secret. The desktop now is just another peer on the network. We've quickly moving to mobile devices being the device we use 16 hrs a day with the desktop/laptop there for the number crunching and in a way home DataCenter.
This developer forum will hopefully produce a lot more juicy info about the interworkings of Snow Leopard than otherwise could be achieved through a scattered developer platform. I don't even know if Grand Central and/or OpenCL have been integrated into SL yet.
... Upset, this other guys says "you got enough space pal" and they jaw at each other for a bit and finally the guy taking the space says "man if you don't like it just kick my ass". End of discussion, because really is the issue so important that you have to sit there an argue? Often it's not. I don't view it as a threat but rather a reframing of the debate. If i've offended you so egregiously then kick my ass. Otherwise we can just disagree and hopefully dispense with the snarky comments and sniping. ...
Man, this is just pathological.
You seriously think that escalating every disagreement to fisticuffs is a logical solution to life's problems?
I guess that means that many women, weak men, invalids, children and pretty much anyone but a big muscled idiot who's willing to fight over nothing are out of luck in general? What a world it would be if we all thought that way. I pity your children.
What if the guy kicking your ass pulls a gun? I guess the answer then is the guy with the biggest gun wins? The more one extrapolates this little philosophy of yours the stupider and nastier it gets.
I generally like some of your comments on this list and respect some of the things you say, but this is just nutty. Methinks you revealed far too much of yourself here. I'll never be able to read you the same way again.
It needs reporting, it needs the ability to see downloading progress from Apple, it needs basically all the features of WSUS. I shouldn't have to use SUS, and ARD AND have to modify the plist manually on the target machines to check and install updates on the machines remotely.
Add some functionality of SAMBA 3.0 as well so OSX Server can FINALLY be seen as a Active Directory server rather than an NT 4.0 server by Windows Clients. SAMBA 3.0 adds Windows 2000 Server level functionality.
Add true enterprise capability to Open Directory, like high level fail-over redundancy. OD is still far behind AD in terms of Enterprise functionality.
You seriously think that escalating every disagreement to fisticuffs is a logical solution to life's problems?
I found a pic of Hmurchison (here) which explains things.
Apple has done the beta thing before. They really haven't had any reason lately. None of the OSX division have been radically different and they haven't screwed it up like Microsoft did with Vista. Microsoft has 7 out there as a beta as a way to redeem their image.
Agreed. Apple's methods have been quite successful so far.