You misunderstand. It's not that this wouldn't appeal to a select number of users, but that it doesn't appeal to enough users to viable AND the commercial's poor rational is laughable. The 10 free tracks are only being done now because the model is failing miserably. It will fail like all the other subscription models and you'll be left paying $15 for 10 songs a month. Not exactly a good deal to me.
If you want 10 DRMed WMA @192Kbps for $15/month along with the unlimited exploding media, then go for it. I want to own my music, I don't want it DRMed and I don't want to invest in a subscription model that will fail like the rest. I buy music when I want to buy it, not because I'm told I get x-many tracks to choose within a set timeframe. I'm not a bargain shopper. If Apple did it, it would be welcomed IF AND ONLY IF they still maintained their current store, but most wouldn't consider it even though it would be more popular than the Zune Pass since iPods are common and iTunes Store business model isn't in jeopardy of failing.
You seem to be confused as to the model.
The 10 included songs are not DRMed WMAs. They're standard MP3s. Download them and own them, just as if you'd paid $.99 for them on iTunes. Play them on any device you want. Cancel the subscription, those songs are yours to keep. The only songs that stop working are songs you haven't purchased, either using the credits or by paying the standard purchase price.
So, again, you're paying $14.95/month for 10 songs to keep (MP3s) and unlimited access to the subscription service. Meaning, the subscription service is essentially $5/month.
The company has stated it plans to introduce new players this year and may center the spotlight on the rumored Zune HD, its first touchscreen player and a response that may come two years after the iPod touch.
No, the files would be too large and the quality benefit would be too low if coming from CDs.
Quote:
The only music I collect is encoded in a lossless format.
You can convert any iTunes music into lossless. Making it lossless doesn't make it high quality, it only means that it was encoded without losing data from the source. But CDs are from high quality as they are.
Quote:
And I'm not sure that anyone will enjoy their iTunes lossy music collection in 10 years from now because of its low quality.
I will enjoy my 256kbps AAC audio from iTS in 10 years, just as I enjoy my ALAC audio from CDs in 10 years. The difference between the two is slim. Compared to CD audio it is far from being "low quality", though it is certainly not as high in quality.
At the end of the day, convenience wins people over. If it didn't CD's would never fallen in favour of the 128kbps audio Apple used to sell.
PS: Apple could offer ALAC files from high-quality originals (not CD quality!) at an increased rate. The files would be considerably larger but that would be fine with high quality audio. Since the ALAC only works with Apple products and even with the new iPod Shuffle, it may be such a bad idea, but only from a real source.
I'm pretty sure that the 10 songs you get from the Zune Pass subscription are MP3s (i.e. no DRM).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32
You seem to be confused as to the model.
The 10 included songs are not DRMed WMAs. They're standard MP3s.
Cool, I thought they gave you the protected files with that model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32
So, again, you're paying $14.95/month for 10 songs to keep (MP3s) and unlimited access to the subscription service. Meaning, the subscription service is essentially $5/month.
Hope that clarifies things for you.
That is a waste for $5 for me. Again, that is fine for those that want it, but renting music has never been popular and I don't see how it will ever be popular, especially when the ecosystem hasn't shown that it's here to stay.
Of course, will microsoft put in their ad, that if you use their music rental system, you lose all the files you put on your Zune when they close the system. they have already kaboshed a few online stores already.... anyone remember Plays for Sure(but now doesnt)
Just to be clear, you only lose the songs that you haven't purchased or used the 10 credits a month for. So, if after a year of subscribing and using your 10 credits each month, you decided to cancel the subscription, you would still have on your Zune and fully playable:
1. The 120 songs from the credits (10 X 12 months) in MP3 format
2. The songs you purchased (many/most of which can be MP3)
3. The songs you ripped from CDs and got from wherever
You would have paid $60 (the extra $5/month) for that year for access to however many songs you wanted to download and not purchase. For myself, that would be something more than 10,000 songs that I would have enjoyed access to for the year. It's a personal preference, of course, but I don't mind paying $60 for a year's worth of music.
Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.
Oh look, it's new non-people with their new non-opinions posting professionally in the forum. How nice.
The "passion" may have been inflamed by the pejorative "Apple Tax" slogan... delivered by the most powerful monopolist in the industry. Maybe.
True, Apple pursues monopoly too, but only by giving people what they want, piece by piece and without commitment. This is the polar opposite of Microsoft's subscription-based, lock-in culture. They are not really competitors. Microsoft just wants to insult Apple's market base out of frustration.
What confuses me is, how are Microsoft's shareholders allowing these adventures into a market that makes no money, and provides no real value added to Microsoft. It seems like the demented Ballmer is just a hobbyist in this market. Makes me wonder why he doesn't pursue his hobbies with his own money instead of wasting shareholder resources. It is as if Microsoft were making chicken sandwiches to feed the ravenous Ballmer. It would go perfectly with all the baby's blood he drinks.
Not such a bad ad, I still get all of my music for free anywho, but I could see the zune pass as a nice thingie, especially if it workes not with zune. If it is locked to zune, then I would rather buy my .99 cent tracks from amazon without copy protection or download them online.
Just to be clear, you only lose the songs that you haven't purchased or used the 10 credits a month for. So, if after a year of subscribing and using your 10 credits each month, you decided to cancel the subscription, you would still have on your Zune and fully playable:
1. The 120 songs from the credits (10 X 12 months) in MP3 format
2. The songs you purchased (many/most of which can be MP3)
3. The songs you ripped from CDs and got from wherever
You would have paid $60 (the extra $5/month) for that year for access to however many songs you wanted to download and not purchase. For myself, that would be something more than 10,000 songs that I would have enjoyed access to for the year. It's a personal preference, of course, but I don't mind paying $60 for a year's worth of music.
Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.
Well color me slightly impressed that you have the option of mp3 from MS. Of course that doesn't change anything and I'd rather have AAC than mp3 anyway.
I know its likely that you're getting paid to astroturf here but you're points aren't really helping this little advertising thing MS is trying.
1. What is this "on your Zune" stuff you're starting now? This is a Mac site we can't use the POS Zune on our Mac nor can we use the Zune Marketplace.
Also please stop pretending like anyone in the world already owns a Zune since nobody does.
2. You would have just as many if not more songs by buying the songs you wanted from iTunes and in better quality AAC.
3. In addition, you could save $60 a year by using any of the streaming services I listed to get all the free music you wanted instead of throwing your money away to MS.
The Zune and Zune Marketplace are both worthless and needless, there are already superior alternatives on the market.
Who the heck plans to fill up an ipod with only music?!!
Oh yeah, Microsoft does not consider pictures, personal files, videos, podcasts, audiobooks, audio recordings, and games as things that might be used on an ipod...
besides, when buying a storage device we expect at least 2 to 5 gigs of free space as a safety net.
I didn't "plan" on filling my 5th gen 60GB iPod with only music, but that's what ended up happening (until a few days ago when the hard drive flaked out on me). It started with a collection of music, videos and podcasts but when push came to shove the videos slowly disappeared until at the end all that was left was music.
Now I have to try to purchase an iPod Classic soon just in case Apple decides to discontinue them and move completely to a lower-capacity, higher cost, flash memory only iPod lineup. But at least I might have the space to put videos on it again.
And I'll probably be called a MS fanboy or get some rude comment that I should go buy a Zune, but the Zune Pass sounds like a pretty good deal. You get 10 songs to keep per month, and access to 3 million songs to choose from to fill your player with. So the price really breaks down to a $4.99 monthly fee. And I have the freedom to check out music I would otherwise ignore. Sounds like a win to me.
People claim that the music rental model has failed, but it has never really been offered in the mainstream. Zune has always been a niche product, so whether its subscription service is failing doesn't really reflect on the potential market for rental music. I think it would do pretty well if iTunes replicated the Zune Pass model.
Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.
if you should read the article again and check the url of the site you're on, you might figure out why deceptive half truths and twisted logic from microsoft invokes passionate responses from an apple focused website. just a thought....
odd also that you allow for 'stuff you purchase' and 'rip from cd' on your zune, when according to the ad us poor apple lemmings have to buy tens of thousands of dollars from the itunes store to fill up our ipods.
just out of curiosity: do you have to buy the ten tracks during the month you pay the 15 bucks for, or do they roll over?
I don't need to download 350 tracks and listen to them all weekend to decide if I like a band or not - I can use the preview function on iTunes and sample a few tracks and pretty much decide whether to investigate that band any further.
I think that all these ads do is make anyone using the MS product already have some sense of reassurance that they made a good choice - make anyone already using an Apple product examine what they have and conclude MS is smoking something - and not sure about those on the fence, maybe just reinforces whatever position they already had.
I once heard that many car commercials were not aimed at attracting new customers - but in reassuring recent new customers that they made a good decision.
I guess its a pretty fine line when "truth in advertising" is on the line. Hard to refute the fact that it *could* cost *up to* $30k to fill the (highest capacity* iPod with the lowest quality music only tracks - assuming you do not already have a single track of your own. Nevermind that they do not say what it would cost to fill the equivalent Zune to capacity with tracks you own.
While I have not used other MP3 players - I have have a number of folks try to cheap out and get something other than an iPod and end up disappointed and in some cases returning the device.
Could you refresh my memory to the date that they stopped producing CD's? I seem to have forgotten it.
Or maybe you could remind me of the date that online downloads took 25% of the music market? I seem to forgotten that date as well.
You read fallen and think that it means that CDs are no longer being produced? Interesting.
CD sales have fallen. Their marketshare is plummeting. iTS is the #1 music retailer in the US. As of March of this year NPD states that paid digital downloads account for 33% of music. No telling how much more is from stolen audio. This is all pretty common knowledge, but if you need to dig up a link or two I will.
People claim that the music rental model has failed, but it has never really been offered in the mainstream. Zune has always been a niche product, so whether its subscription service is failing doesn't really reflect on the potential market for rental music. I think it would do pretty well if iTunes replicated the Zune Pass model.
i don't think anybody here would call you a MS fanboy for saying that the 'iPod Killer' from Microsoft 'has always been a niche product'.
this is also the first time that i've ever read 'Microsoft' and 'not mainstream' in the same post. does that imply that only if apple decides to give it a go it becomes feasible? i can only imagine the outcry over the drm that is likely going to follow.... including the 'walled garden' talking point of the assorted shills.
yes this whole debate is ridiculous, but what i REALLY love is how Wes Moss explains the most inexpensive way to consume music... because that's what i like to do with my music... consume it.
apple gets musicians to pitch it's music players, microsoft gets a financial talk show radio host.
and zunes are pieces of crap. i bought one to check it out, it felt so cheap. i took it to the gym one day and i decided it was garbage and just left it on the bench in the locker room. i didn't even care. in fact i pity the person that found it.
Nothing wrong with the choice of a subscription service, and I wish Apple offered one too. More choice is always better.
The Zune ad leaves out something, though (if someone hasn't pointed this out already):
Say an iPod owner and Zune owner each go a month without downloading new music. They're busy listening to the thousands of songs they already have (including all those from CD collections and other non-online-store sources). They're also busy with movies and countless podcasts and other media. It just isn't a new music kind of month, and both products' online music stores go untouched.
What's the bill for the month?
iPod + iTunes store user: $0.
Zune + Zune Pass user: $15. Despite no new music.
I guess you can't say the Zune Pass user is paying for nothing, as he's paying to listen to *previous* months' downloads. And, of course, many Zune Pass users *will* download lots of new music, every month, getting their money's worth.
Still, it's worth reminding folks that a subscription service is by no means as universally superior as a commercial claims! (Which everyone here already knows, of course.)
Comments
If you want 10 DRMed WMA @192Kbps for $15/month along with the unlimited exploding media, then go for it.
I'm pretty sure that the 10 songs you get from the Zune Pass subscription are MP3s (i.e. no DRM).
You misunderstand. It's not that this wouldn't appeal to a select number of users, but that it doesn't appeal to enough users to viable AND the commercial's poor rational is laughable. The 10 free tracks are only being done now because the model is failing miserably. It will fail like all the other subscription models and you'll be left paying $15 for 10 songs a month. Not exactly a good deal to me.
If you want 10 DRMed WMA @192Kbps for $15/month along with the unlimited exploding media, then go for it. I want to own my music, I don't want it DRMed and I don't want to invest in a subscription model that will fail like the rest. I buy music when I want to buy it, not because I'm told I get x-many tracks to choose within a set timeframe. I'm not a bargain shopper. If Apple did it, it would be welcomed IF AND ONLY IF they still maintained their current store, but most wouldn't consider it even though it would be more popular than the Zune Pass since iPods are common and iTunes Store business model isn't in jeopardy of failing.
You seem to be confused as to the model.
The 10 included songs are not DRMed WMAs. They're standard MP3s. Download them and own them, just as if you'd paid $.99 for them on iTunes. Play them on any device you want. Cancel the subscription, those songs are yours to keep. The only songs that stop working are songs you haven't purchased, either using the credits or by paying the standard purchase price.
So, again, you're paying $14.95/month for 10 songs to keep (MP3s) and unlimited access to the subscription service. Meaning, the subscription service is essentially $5/month.
Hope that clarifies things for you.
The company has stated it plans to introduce new players this year and may center the spotlight on the rumored Zune HD, its first touchscreen player and a response that may come two years after the iPod touch.
The iPod Touch has been HD for 2 years???
Any lossless music on iTunes?
No, the files would be too large and the quality benefit would be too low if coming from CDs.
The only music I collect is encoded in a lossless format.
You can convert any iTunes music into lossless. Making it lossless doesn't make it high quality, it only means that it was encoded without losing data from the source. But CDs are from high quality as they are.
And I'm not sure that anyone will enjoy their iTunes lossy music collection in 10 years from now because of its low quality.
I will enjoy my 256kbps AAC audio from iTS in 10 years, just as I enjoy my ALAC audio from CDs in 10 years. The difference between the two is slim. Compared to CD audio it is far from being "low quality", though it is certainly not as high in quality.
At the end of the day, convenience wins people over. If it didn't CD's would never fallen in favour of the 128kbps audio Apple used to sell.
PS: Apple could offer ALAC files from high-quality originals (not CD quality!) at an increased rate. The files would be considerably larger but that would be fine with high quality audio. Since the ALAC only works with Apple products and even with the new iPod Shuffle, it may be such a bad idea, but only from a real source.
I'm pretty sure that the 10 songs you get from the Zune Pass subscription are MP3s (i.e. no DRM).
You seem to be confused as to the model.
The 10 included songs are not DRMed WMAs. They're standard MP3s.
Cool, I thought they gave you the protected files with that model.
So, again, you're paying $14.95/month for 10 songs to keep (MP3s) and unlimited access to the subscription service. Meaning, the subscription service is essentially $5/month.
Hope that clarifies things for you.
That is a waste for $5 for me. Again, that is fine for those that want it, but renting music has never been popular and I don't see how it will ever be popular, especially when the ecosystem hasn't shown that it's here to stay.
RIP August 2007 — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URGE
RIP September 2008 — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Music_Unlimited
Still kicking but sickly — http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2009/...s-jump-25.html
Of course, will microsoft put in their ad, that if you use their music rental system, you lose all the files you put on your Zune when they close the system. they have already kaboshed a few online stores already.... anyone remember Plays for Sure(but now doesnt)
Just to be clear, you only lose the songs that you haven't purchased or used the 10 credits a month for. So, if after a year of subscribing and using your 10 credits each month, you decided to cancel the subscription, you would still have on your Zune and fully playable:
1. The 120 songs from the credits (10 X 12 months) in MP3 format
2. The songs you purchased (many/most of which can be MP3)
3. The songs you ripped from CDs and got from wherever
You would have paid $60 (the extra $5/month) for that year for access to however many songs you wanted to download and not purchase. For myself, that would be something more than 10,000 songs that I would have enjoyed access to for the year. It's a personal preference, of course, but I don't mind paying $60 for a year's worth of music.
Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.
Simply offer an iTunes rental option as well, and let the marketplace decide.
It's not like they make a whole heck of a lot of margins from iTunes anyway.......
The "passion" may have been inflamed by the pejorative "Apple Tax" slogan... delivered by the most powerful monopolist in the industry. Maybe.
True, Apple pursues monopoly too, but only by giving people what they want, piece by piece and without commitment. This is the polar opposite of Microsoft's subscription-based, lock-in culture. They are not really competitors. Microsoft just wants to insult Apple's market base out of frustration.
What confuses me is, how are Microsoft's shareholders allowing these adventures into a market that makes no money, and provides no real value added to Microsoft. It seems like the demented Ballmer is just a hobbyist in this market. Makes me wonder why he doesn't pursue his hobbies with his own money instead of wasting shareholder resources. It is as if Microsoft were making chicken sandwiches to feed the ravenous Ballmer. It would go perfectly with all the baby's blood he drinks.
Just to be clear, you only lose the songs that you haven't purchased or used the 10 credits a month for. So, if after a year of subscribing and using your 10 credits each month, you decided to cancel the subscription, you would still have on your Zune and fully playable:
1. The 120 songs from the credits (10 X 12 months) in MP3 format
2. The songs you purchased (many/most of which can be MP3)
3. The songs you ripped from CDs and got from wherever
You would have paid $60 (the extra $5/month) for that year for access to however many songs you wanted to download and not purchase. For myself, that would be something more than 10,000 songs that I would have enjoyed access to for the year. It's a personal preference, of course, but I don't mind paying $60 for a year's worth of music.
Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.
Well color me slightly impressed that you have the option of mp3 from MS. Of course that doesn't change anything and I'd rather have AAC than mp3 anyway.
I know its likely that you're getting paid to astroturf here but you're points aren't really helping this little advertising thing MS is trying.
1. What is this "on your Zune" stuff you're starting now? This is a Mac site we can't use the POS Zune on our Mac nor can we use the Zune Marketplace.
Also please stop pretending like anyone in the world already owns a Zune since nobody does.
2. You would have just as many if not more songs by buying the songs you wanted from iTunes and in better quality AAC.
3. In addition, you could save $60 a year by using any of the streaming services I listed to get all the free music you wanted instead of throwing your money away to MS.
The Zune and Zune Marketplace are both worthless and needless, there are already superior alternatives on the market.
Who the heck plans to fill up an ipod with only music?!!
Oh yeah, Microsoft does not consider pictures, personal files, videos, podcasts, audiobooks, audio recordings, and games as things that might be used on an ipod...
besides, when buying a storage device we expect at least 2 to 5 gigs of free space as a safety net.
I didn't "plan" on filling my 5th gen 60GB iPod with only music, but that's what ended up happening (until a few days ago when the hard drive flaked out on me). It started with a collection of music, videos and podcasts but when push came to shove the videos slowly disappeared until at the end all that was left was music.
Now I have to try to purchase an iPod Classic soon just in case Apple decides to discontinue them and move completely to a lower-capacity, higher cost, flash memory only iPod lineup. But at least I might have the space to put videos on it again.
And I'll probably be called a MS fanboy or get some rude comment that I should go buy a Zune, but the Zune Pass sounds like a pretty good deal. You get 10 songs to keep per month, and access to 3 million songs to choose from to fill your player with. So the price really breaks down to a $4.99 monthly fee. And I have the freedom to check out music I would otherwise ignore. Sounds like a win to me.
People claim that the music rental model has failed, but it has never really been offered in the mainstream. Zune has always been a niche product, so whether its subscription service is failing doesn't really reflect on the potential market for rental music. I think it would do pretty well if iTunes replicated the Zune Pass model.
Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.
if you should read the article again and check the url of the site you're on, you might figure out why deceptive half truths and twisted logic from microsoft invokes passionate responses from an apple focused website. just a thought....
odd also that you allow for 'stuff you purchase' and 'rip from cd' on your zune, when according to the ad us poor apple lemmings have to buy tens of thousands of dollars from the itunes store to fill up our ipods.
just out of curiosity: do you have to buy the ten tracks during the month you pay the 15 bucks for, or do they roll over?
I think that all these ads do is make anyone using the MS product already have some sense of reassurance that they made a good choice - make anyone already using an Apple product examine what they have and conclude MS is smoking something - and not sure about those on the fence, maybe just reinforces whatever position they already had.
I once heard that many car commercials were not aimed at attracting new customers - but in reassuring recent new customers that they made a good decision.
I guess its a pretty fine line when "truth in advertising" is on the line. Hard to refute the fact that it *could* cost *up to* $30k to fill the (highest capacity* iPod with the lowest quality music only tracks - assuming you do not already have a single track of your own. Nevermind that they do not say what it would cost to fill the equivalent Zune to capacity with tracks you own.
While I have not used other MP3 players - I have have a number of folks try to cheap out and get something other than an iPod and end up disappointed and in some cases returning the device.
If it didn't CD's would never fallen in favour of the 128kbps audio Apple used to sell.
Could you refresh my memory to the date that they stopped producing CD's? I seem to have forgotten it.
Or maybe you could remind me of the date that online downloads took 25% of the music market? I seem to forgotten that date as well.
Could you refresh my memory to the date that they stopped producing CD's? I seem to have forgotten it.
Or maybe you could remind me of the date that online downloads took 25% of the music market? I seem to forgotten that date as well.
You read fallen and think that it means that CDs are no longer being produced? Interesting.
CD sales have fallen. Their marketshare is plummeting. iTS is the #1 music retailer in the US. As of March of this year NPD states that paid digital downloads account for 33% of music. No telling how much more is from stolen audio. This is all pretty common knowledge, but if you need to dig up a link or two I will.
snip
People claim that the music rental model has failed, but it has never really been offered in the mainstream. Zune has always been a niche product, so whether its subscription service is failing doesn't really reflect on the potential market for rental music. I think it would do pretty well if iTunes replicated the Zune Pass model.
i don't think anybody here would call you a MS fanboy for saying that the 'iPod Killer' from Microsoft 'has always been a niche product'.
this is also the first time that i've ever read 'Microsoft' and 'not mainstream' in the same post. does that imply that only if apple decides to give it a go it becomes feasible? i can only imagine the outcry over the drm that is likely going to follow.... including the 'walled garden' talking point of the assorted shills.
apple gets musicians to pitch it's music players, microsoft gets a financial talk show radio host.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes
and zunes are pieces of crap. i bought one to check it out, it felt so cheap. i took it to the gym one day and i decided it was garbage and just left it on the bench in the locker room. i didn't even care. in fact i pity the person that found it.
The Zune ad leaves out something, though (if someone hasn't pointed this out already):
Say an iPod owner and Zune owner each go a month without downloading new music. They're busy listening to the thousands of songs they already have (including all those from CD collections and other non-online-store sources). They're also busy with movies and countless podcasts and other media. It just isn't a new music kind of month, and both products' online music stores go untouched.
What's the bill for the month?
iPod + iTunes store user: $0.
Zune + Zune Pass user: $15. Despite no new music.
I guess you can't say the Zune Pass user is paying for nothing, as he's paying to listen to *previous* months' downloads. And, of course, many Zune Pass users *will* download lots of new music, every month, getting their money's worth.
Still, it's worth reminding folks that a subscription service is by no means as universally superior as a commercial claims! (Which everyone here already knows, of course.)