I don't think this was true for the original Apple/AT&T contract.
At the time there was considerable skepticism that Apple, who
had never sold a cell phone before, would be able to compete
With the likes of Nokia, RIM, or even Motorola. It is the perception
of many people that Verizon's doubt about Apple was essential to
Verizon's rejection of the iPhone in the first place.
That was not Verizon concern . Verizon did not reject anything per se. Verizon was never shown anything ,. NOT EVEN A PICTURE . Verizon was asked to partner with apple. And they had to commit to this with no phone yet made and almost no control .
AT&T jumped at the chance to work with steve jobs , and quickly agreed to every thing apple wanted . Verizon never got a second chance. They had by mistake insulted steve jobs .
Please lets not act foolish here , ok
the whole world knows about steve
And the ipod sensation. And the software that works . It's not like verizon did not know all this .
When you visit nyc i will show you beautiful cast-iron buildings . its a 9 block walk and at the end of the walk you are at the apple store . where it all happens
ok
9
< brucep bows deeply. turns and jumps out the window >>
I am very grateful for your offer (although I must admit to being a bit befuddled about the subtext here).
Anyways...... I know NYC reasonably well. So thanks - I can navigate that walk on my own.
Well, there seem to be several people on these boards who share
Your hope. Unfortunately, AT&T will probably do just about
Anything to retain exclusivity. It puts Apple in an incredibly good
bargaining position. (btw, who is Vernon?)
M y hope is that the iphone is open to any carrier that can handle it . I guess sprint AT&T And verizon in the Usa . . The iphone should be $40 dollars a month for unlimited data .And $20 a month for zippo data .
My spell check is crappy . And it rejected verizon and changed all my verizon's to Vernon . And I had to by hand change them all back . I guess I missed one .
VZ gives preference to VZW. Bottom line, FiOS will benefit VZW (and already is, in some markets). Additional capacity is leased to other wireless carriers.
I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that Verizon wireless was operationally separate from Verizon the company that owns FIOS. I don't believe the FIOS investments will benefit VZW.
Operationally --- the future business model is quad bundling, so FIOS investments will benefit the wireless side as well.
It is a short article and I realized that being a Verizon subscriber will have more potential benefits starting in 2010, not only in reality but maybe with the iPhone eventually having a piece of the pie in the USA.
Verizon is launching their commercial LTE network in 2010. They are testing the new 700MHZ in the US and abroad which will be the standard worldwide for 4G meaning compatibility for use here and everywhere. They just released their technical standards for it so hardware manufacturers can start testing their products. They will be adopting this LTE standard very quickly in an effort to replace their 3G and have 4G coverage everywhere instead. They will keep their 2G CDMA because of its reliability and I am guessing that there are customers that don't care about switching or needing 4G. I am getting all these facts from a quick google search.
Now I can't believe that Apple is not hesitating to at least start testing the 4G standard for use in the iPhone and be prepared to use it if and as needed. Ok, they may use it as a power bargaining chip with AT&T when the AT&T contract extension talks really get underway. When the iPhone does go to Verizon eventually ( I am hoping sooner ), it seems that the LTE standard will be used. This will also allow worldwide coverage as with GSM and the numbers can only grow with LTE. China is creating this as their future standard already. And if Apple goes there...
Now, the waiting game(s) are here to see how it will all unfold! With all the interesting news, some of which I mentioned above, I am more hopeful every few months that my iPhone will be with Verizon!
VERIZON ceded the greatest phone invention to date . an invention that lets them charge 70 buck a month.
AT&T jumped at the chance to work with steve jobs , and quickly agreed to every thing apple wanted . Verizon never got a second chance. They had by mistake insulted steve jobs.
The greatest invention to date was Verizon Wireless $99 unlimited voice plan --- where AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint had to copy it merely days after VZW's announcement. From the carrier's point of view, a unlimited voice plan that brings in $99 a month is the same as an iphone plan that brings in $90+ a month.
VZW had shown the world that you can still be alive after rejecting Apple's iphone (much like Harry Potter being famous for staying alive after battling with Voldemort) --- that's why all the carrier negotiations after AT&T were so difficult, that revenue sharing was rejected completely by carriers for the 3G iphone, that China still hasn't gotten any iphone distribution deal. It was Apple's biggest mistake not signing VZW in the first place.
Whatever Verizon is going to agree with Apple for a future iphone --- will be vastly different that the original deal that they rejected. Same thing with the rest of the world --- you think that Indian carrier who got suckered into that iphone exclusive deal is going to sign off the same deal when their sales is only a decimal point of what they were hoping for.
So...... Verizon did two things: they offered a $99 unlimited voice plan (a "great invention" that can be copied by changing a line on a price chart), and they didn't go bankrupt after passing on the iPhone, so now they're in the driver's seat re any negotiations with Apple?
Not really following that. Of course you can be in business without the iPhone. The question, is will the iPhone make you more money? AT&T says yes. If you want that money, you'll have to do it Apple's way, because Apple is doing fine as it is.
Also, a $99 unlimited voice plan isn't nearly as profitable for the carriers as data, for simple reason that most customers won't take it, whereas every customer you sell a smart phone to has to get an obligatory data plan.
When they start selling dumb phones with obligatory unlimited voice plans, you'll have a point.
So...... Verizon did two things: they offered a $99 unlimited voice plan (a "great invention" that can be copied by changing a line on a price chart), and they didn't go bankrupt after passing on the iPhone, so now they're in the driver's seat re any negotiations with Apple?
Not really following that. Of course you can be in business without the iPhone. The question, is will the iPhone make you more money? AT&T says yes. If you want that money, you'll have to do it Apple's way, because Apple is doing fine as it is.
Also, a $99 unlimited voice plan isn't nearly as profitable for the carriers as data, for simple reason that most customers won't take it, whereas every customer you sell a smart phone to has to get an obligatory data plan.
When they start selling dumb phones with obligatory unlimited voice plans, you'll have a point.
Who said AT&T is making money on it --- the profit margin has taken a hit with the iphone subsidy. Meanwhile Verizon Wireless just announced that they are going to beat their already massive profit margin.
Most people don't buy expensive smartphone data plans either. The middle class rules ---Verizon makes more money than AT&T because AT&T takes the big spending geeks and low spending prepaid --- while Verizon takes the middle. I rather sell "boring" Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys --- that's how you make serious money.
Apple not signing with Verizon was the biggest mistake in their iphone business plan. Verizon would have kept Apple from making several big mistakes in their original 2G iphone launch --- $600 price tag, revenue sharing... Just imagine Verizon shooting down these idiotic ideas in the first place --- you would have seen the first generation iphone in 80 countries (instead of 4), a carrier-subsidized price, and no revenue sharing.
Sigh. As has been endlessly explained, there was little chance Apple was ever going to make a deal with Verizon, because Verizon is militant about controlling the customer experience. If Apple had sold the iPhone through Verizon, it wouldn't have been the iPhone as we know it, and who knows if it even would have been successful.
AT&T doesn't seem to have any problem with the profit structure of carrying the iPhone. As the article this thread is about makes clear, it's bringing in customers, and they're eager to extend their exclusivity deal. If the iPhone actually hurt their profits, why in the world would that be?
As far as Verizon making more money off the "middle class" or whatever, that's an interesting theory but I doubt you have any figures to back it up.
Smart phone are the fastest growing segment of the cell phone market. In the US, at least, every smart phone sold comes with a obligatory data plan. Ergo, the carriers would be fools if they weren't doing everything in their power to sell as many smart phones as possible.
Who said AT&T is making money on it --- the profit margin has taken a hit with the iphone subsidy. Meanwhile Verizon Wireless just announced that they are going to beat their already massive profit margin.
Most people don't buy expensive smartphone data plans either. The middle class rules ---Verizon makes more money than AT&T because AT&T takes the big spending geeks and low spending prepaid --- while Verizon takes the middle. I rather sell "boring" Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys --- that's how you make serious money.
Apple not signing with Verizon was the biggest mistake in their iphone business plan. Verizon would have kept Apple from making several big mistakes in their original 2G iphone launch --- $600 price tag, revenue sharing... Just imagine Verizon shooting down these idiotic ideas in the first place --- you would have seen the first generation iphone in 80 countries (instead of 4), a carrier-subsidized price, and no revenue sharing.
AT&T may not make money on the deal, but Apple does. I am pretty sure that the same model does not work outside US, though.
Also, AT&T seems happy with the deal despite the revenue sharing. This is because of the way the mobile industry works. Usually, you invest money to get new subscribers. The assumption is that as long as the service quality is acceptable, most of the customers will not switch. But because the same applies to the competition, in a more or less saturated market you need to do something to make the customers switch. This explains why the exclusive deals in most countries are with the underdog carrier: they are more flexible and willing to invest.
I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that Verizon wireless was operationally separate from Verizon the company that owns FIOS. I don't believe the FIOS investments will benefit VZW.
It is. VW is a joint venture of Verizon Communications (55%) and Vodafone (45%) with both wanting to buy the other one out.
AT&T reaps the rewards while Apple gets boxed into a hole.
Apple chose the hole. Apple and AT&T are both making lots money. The only party that is at a disadvantage is the consumer who has to deal with the confined network coverage and very rare 3G data coverage (most of the network is still 2G).
Apple chose the hole. Apple and AT&T are both making lots money. The only party that is at a disadvantage is the consumer who has to deal with the confined network coverage and very rare 3G data coverage (most of the network is still 2G).
Well Apple could be making more with iPhone in US.
Comments
I don't think this was true for the original Apple/AT&T contract.
At the time there was considerable skepticism that Apple, who
had never sold a cell phone before, would be able to compete
With the likes of Nokia, RIM, or even Motorola. It is the perception
of many people that Verizon's doubt about Apple was essential to
Verizon's rejection of the iPhone in the first place.
That was not Verizon concern . Verizon did not reject anything per se. Verizon was never shown anything ,. NOT EVEN A PICTURE . Verizon was asked to partner with apple. And they had to commit to this with no phone yet made and almost no control .
AT&T jumped at the chance to work with steve jobs , and quickly agreed to every thing apple wanted . Verizon never got a second chance. They had by mistake insulted steve jobs .
Please lets not act foolish here , ok
the whole world knows about steve
And the ipod sensation. And the software that works . It's not like verizon did not know all this .
PEACE 9
When you visit nyc i will show you beautiful cast-iron buildings . its a 9 block walk and at the end of the walk you are at the apple store . where it all happens
ok
9
< brucep bows deeply. turns and jumps out the window >>
I am very grateful for your offer (although I must admit to being a bit befuddled about the subtext here).
Anyways...... I know NYC reasonably well. So thanks - I can navigate that walk on my own.
Well, there seem to be several people on these boards who share
Your hope. Unfortunately, AT&T will probably do just about
Anything to retain exclusivity. It puts Apple in an incredibly good
bargaining position. (btw, who is Vernon?)
M y hope is that the iphone is open to any carrier that can handle it . I guess sprint AT&T And verizon in the Usa . . The iphone should be $40 dollars a month for unlimited data .And $20 a month for zippo data .
My spell check is crappy . And it rejected verizon and changed all my verizon's to Vernon . And I had to by hand change them all back . I guess I missed one .
ace
9
I am very greateful for your offer (although I must admit to being a bit befuddled about the subtext here).
Anyways...... I know NYC reasonably well. So thanks - I can navigate that walk on my own.
i was only offering a olive branch to you .
nothing else .
VZ gives preference to VZW. Bottom line, FiOS will benefit VZW (and already is, in some markets). Additional capacity is leased to other wireless carriers.
how does fios improve cell phone reception ???
i was only offering a olive branch to you .
nothing else .
OK. But I am not sure why one was needed......
I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that Verizon wireless was operationally separate from Verizon the company that owns FIOS. I don't believe the FIOS investments will benefit VZW.
Operationally --- the future business model is quad bundling, so FIOS investments will benefit the wireless side as well.
There is no "conversion" of spectrum. The 700MHz spectrum will be used for LTE.
Verizon is quickly pursuing LTE and the quality, coverage, and date of availability will surpass AT&T by 1-2 years. .
In reading this thread, I decided to do a little exploring and the first article I came across:
http://gizmodo.com/5155882/verizon-l...launch-in-2010
It is a short article and I realized that being a Verizon subscriber will have more potential benefits starting in 2010, not only in reality but maybe with the iPhone eventually having a piece of the pie in the USA.
Verizon is launching their commercial LTE network in 2010. They are testing the new 700MHZ in the US and abroad which will be the standard worldwide for 4G meaning compatibility for use here and everywhere. They just released their technical standards for it so hardware manufacturers can start testing their products. They will be adopting this LTE standard very quickly in an effort to replace their 3G and have 4G coverage everywhere instead. They will keep their 2G CDMA because of its reliability and I am guessing that there are customers that don't care about switching or needing 4G. I am getting all these facts from a quick google search.
Now I can't believe that Apple is not hesitating to at least start testing the 4G standard for use in the iPhone and be prepared to use it if and as needed. Ok, they may use it as a power bargaining chip with AT&T when the AT&T contract extension talks really get underway. When the iPhone does go to Verizon eventually ( I am hoping sooner ), it seems that the LTE standard will be used. This will also allow worldwide coverage as with GSM and the numbers can only grow with LTE. China is creating this as their future standard already. And if Apple goes there...
Now, the waiting game(s) are here to see how it will all unfold! With all the interesting news, some of which I mentioned above, I am more hopeful every few months that my iPhone will be with Verizon!
VERIZON ceded the greatest phone invention to date . an invention that lets them charge 70 buck a month.
AT&T jumped at the chance to work with steve jobs , and quickly agreed to every thing apple wanted . Verizon never got a second chance. They had by mistake insulted steve jobs.
The greatest invention to date was Verizon Wireless $99 unlimited voice plan --- where AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint had to copy it merely days after VZW's announcement. From the carrier's point of view, a unlimited voice plan that brings in $99 a month is the same as an iphone plan that brings in $90+ a month.
VZW had shown the world that you can still be alive after rejecting Apple's iphone (much like Harry Potter being famous for staying alive after battling with Voldemort) --- that's why all the carrier negotiations after AT&T were so difficult, that revenue sharing was rejected completely by carriers for the 3G iphone, that China still hasn't gotten any iphone distribution deal. It was Apple's biggest mistake not signing VZW in the first place.
Whatever Verizon is going to agree with Apple for a future iphone --- will be vastly different that the original deal that they rejected. Same thing with the rest of the world --- you think that Indian carrier who got suckered into that iphone exclusive deal is going to sign off the same deal when their sales is only a decimal point of what they were hoping for.
Not really following that. Of course you can be in business without the iPhone. The question, is will the iPhone make you more money? AT&T says yes. If you want that money, you'll have to do it Apple's way, because Apple is doing fine as it is.
Also, a $99 unlimited voice plan isn't nearly as profitable for the carriers as data, for simple reason that most customers won't take it, whereas every customer you sell a smart phone to has to get an obligatory data plan.
When they start selling dumb phones with obligatory unlimited voice plans, you'll have a point.
So...... Verizon did two things: they offered a $99 unlimited voice plan (a "great invention" that can be copied by changing a line on a price chart), and they didn't go bankrupt after passing on the iPhone, so now they're in the driver's seat re any negotiations with Apple?
Not really following that. Of course you can be in business without the iPhone. The question, is will the iPhone make you more money? AT&T says yes. If you want that money, you'll have to do it Apple's way, because Apple is doing fine as it is.
Also, a $99 unlimited voice plan isn't nearly as profitable for the carriers as data, for simple reason that most customers won't take it, whereas every customer you sell a smart phone to has to get an obligatory data plan.
When they start selling dumb phones with obligatory unlimited voice plans, you'll have a point.
Who said AT&T is making money on it --- the profit margin has taken a hit with the iphone subsidy. Meanwhile Verizon Wireless just announced that they are going to beat their already massive profit margin.
Most people don't buy expensive smartphone data plans either. The middle class rules ---Verizon makes more money than AT&T because AT&T takes the big spending geeks and low spending prepaid --- while Verizon takes the middle. I rather sell "boring" Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys --- that's how you make serious money.
Apple not signing with Verizon was the biggest mistake in their iphone business plan. Verizon would have kept Apple from making several big mistakes in their original 2G iphone launch --- $600 price tag, revenue sharing... Just imagine Verizon shooting down these idiotic ideas in the first place --- you would have seen the first generation iphone in 80 countries (instead of 4), a carrier-subsidized price, and no revenue sharing.
AT&T doesn't seem to have any problem with the profit structure of carrying the iPhone. As the article this thread is about makes clear, it's bringing in customers, and they're eager to extend their exclusivity deal. If the iPhone actually hurt their profits, why in the world would that be?
As far as Verizon making more money off the "middle class" or whatever, that's an interesting theory but I doubt you have any figures to back it up.
Smart phone are the fastest growing segment of the cell phone market. In the US, at least, every smart phone sold comes with a obligatory data plan. Ergo, the carriers would be fools if they weren't doing everything in their power to sell as many smart phones as possible.
Who said AT&T is making money on it --- the profit margin has taken a hit with the iphone subsidy. Meanwhile Verizon Wireless just announced that they are going to beat their already massive profit margin.
Most people don't buy expensive smartphone data plans either. The middle class rules ---Verizon makes more money than AT&T because AT&T takes the big spending geeks and low spending prepaid --- while Verizon takes the middle. I rather sell "boring" Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys --- that's how you make serious money.
Apple not signing with Verizon was the biggest mistake in their iphone business plan. Verizon would have kept Apple from making several big mistakes in their original 2G iphone launch --- $600 price tag, revenue sharing... Just imagine Verizon shooting down these idiotic ideas in the first place --- you would have seen the first generation iphone in 80 countries (instead of 4), a carrier-subsidized price, and no revenue sharing.
AT&T may not make money on the deal, but Apple does. I am pretty sure that the same model does not work outside US, though.
Also, AT&T seems happy with the deal despite the revenue sharing. This is because of the way the mobile industry works. Usually, you invest money to get new subscribers. The assumption is that as long as the service quality is acceptable, most of the customers will not switch. But because the same applies to the competition, in a more or less saturated market you need to do something to make the customers switch. This explains why the exclusive deals in most countries are with the underdog carrier: they are more flexible and willing to invest.
This should in all probability be an incoming call that they don't charge you for...
Wow, actual phone-like devices! Who would have thought it?
as far as apple, its about what makes the most financial sense
where does iphone advance more --- under att or verizon, --verizon has a history of locking down phone capability. or does it matter.
i want the best iphone available thats dependent on apple not the carrier
I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that Verizon wireless was operationally separate from Verizon the company that owns FIOS. I don't believe the FIOS investments will benefit VZW.
It is. VW is a joint venture of Verizon Communications (55%) and Vodafone (45%) with both wanting to buy the other one out.
AT&T reaps the rewards while Apple gets boxed into a hole.
Apple chose the hole. Apple and AT&T are both making lots money. The only party that is at a disadvantage is the consumer who has to deal with the confined network coverage and very rare 3G data coverage (most of the network is still 2G).
Apple chose the hole. Apple and AT&T are both making lots money. The only party that is at a disadvantage is the consumer who has to deal with the confined network coverage and very rare 3G data coverage (most of the network is still 2G).
Well Apple could be making more with iPhone in US.