So we grew up at the same time. NPR is great and in even small communities (Southern Oregon) it is live and local and even HD ... AM HD. This is the only radio I know of that includes AM. As an audio only player, it rocks.
Do they have an app for SF Giants baseball on KNBR? I think not.
Hmm. Well, I have one. Not being a regular follower of Giants baseball, I can't say for sure what station this app typically uses... but At Bat 2009, the MLB.com app, lists the home audio for this evening's Giants - Cardinals matchup as being KNBR 680. So, now that I've paid my $9.99 for the app, I can in fact listen to the game - apparently on EXACTLY the station you wanted to listen to - for free over wireless OR 3G.
I suppose that you might not want to pay the $9.99 for the app, but I don't want to pay an extra $9.99 or whatever to get a built-in radio that I won't use. Especially since my chances of receiving KNBR via radio broadcast are pretty small here in Florida. Plus, I also get all of the other games, home or away audio, as well as a pretty damned good realtime gameday app showing AB, pitch locator, etc. I'm a Braves fan living out of their market, but I can hear them ALL using this app. From anywhere in the country. Radio won't do that.
Based on having paid for the MLB.tv service last year, I was all but certain that this app would suck as bad, but no. They must have hired someone to write it because it's good. I think it does a great job of leveraging a great interface for high usability.
Disclaimer: I do not work for Apple, MLB, or whoever coded that app. I've simply been pleased with it.
You act as if Windows CE's development has been stalled all this time. Windows CE has been developed all through this decade.
Windows CE actually has nearly a decade and a half of development and refinement behind it. iPhone OS is the new comer here.
Windows CE 5 in 2004 brought Direct3D, DirectDraw, and DirectShow. DirectShow is neat because it does things that even OS X still doesn't do. Like full hardware support for video playback, rather than putting it all on the CPU like OS X
So don't go discounting Windows CE. It's been well developed over the last few years and uses the industry standard for 3D graphics, Direct3D. You also have to take into account that nvidia Tegra supports Direct3D Mobile. The GeForce ULV even supports programmable shaders. The Tegra's 3D capabilities are definitely well beyond that sub-Dreamcast/barely above N64 PowerVR chip in the iPod touch and iPhone.
....
Oh please. That whole "Apple leading the way" nonsense hasn't been true since the mid 90s. Let's not forget that Windows was first with multi-processor SMP support, and Windows had pre-emptive multi-tasking about 5 years before Mac OS did. OS X still can't even support full hardware video playback, and the multi-display support on Apple notebooks is all messed up. Why do I have to start the system with the lid closed or sleep it and wake it back up to get it to use an external display only? Why can't I choose it in software like Windows has allowed me since ooh.. Windows 98?
So is that why Windows CE phones are so much more advanced than the iPhone? Mac OS 9 is still around...doesn't make it a great OS for a media player or a phone. Both your rebuttals lead to the same point I was making originally. That is Microsoft has no intentions much less capability to lead. They can only attempt to strangle what becomes successful to make it their own. Even your OS rebuttal to the Mac is full of examples you attest to Microsoft when indeed they were developed by others prior to being incorporated into Windows. Jeez, NEXT had multi-tasking before Windows and that's what Mac OS X is built on.
And honestly...those examples (forgetting that you're completely off base on some of your Mac hardware knowledge)...do you really call that innovation (regardless that Microsoft didn't develop)? The average Joe has no idea what those are or the benefit from it. I'm talking about innovation as an industry standard. The Mac GUI, the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone...these have all caused changes in the industry as well as the consumer's conscience. BOB, WebTV, SmartWatch, Zune, Tablet PC, talking PCs, Passport, Windows ME, the 1st Edition "The Road Ahead" (ie - Gates completely dispels the Internet)...all examples of where Microsoft tried to lead and has fallen flat on their face. I certainly don't see or hear of Apple trying to build a "Zune killer"!
It's funny you say that, considering the number of people who subscribe to music services numbers in the millions.
And if you want to talk numbers, let's talk about how many copies of Leopard have been sold versus the amount of copies of Vista that have been sold in the same time period
The only number that matters in the long run are profit and stock performance. Leopard helped build the Apple brand and market share, Vista didn't do the same for MS. iTunes and Amazon are profitable ventures, no subscription service that I know of is currently even breaking even.
I already knew of this product. Yes, it does cost too much. Everything Apple does seem to have a high price tag at first glance. This one does even at second glance. Based on the reviews, it is way below Apple's standards of quality. We all have our desires, and I have zero use for the photo and video side of iPod or Zune. My eyesight is bad enough already. I don't need the frustration of trying to look at stuff on a tiny screen. For me (and only me) that is just dumb. I am interested in a portable audio only device with everything but the kitchen sink in it. I posted a link in a previous message.
It's been said a couple of times, but it bears repeating:
From what we've been shown, the Zune HD is using WinCE to basically replicate the existing Zune UI with animations.
It doesn't even appear to be trying to be a Touch rival, it's more like a big touchscreen Nano.
The Touch is a general purpose computing device running a subset of a desktop class OS. The Zune HD appears to be a media player running an offshoot of a componentized, embedded OS originally designed for extremely constrained devices, which may or may not at some point merge with whatever MS is selling for a phone OS at that time.
The idea that WinCE is poised to leap forward and eclipse the iPhone OS is insane, and the Zune HD gives no reason to think that's even where MS is going, with this device.
It's been said a couple of times, but it bears repeating:
The idea that WinCE is poised to leap forward and eclipse the iPhone OS is insane, and the Zune HD gives no reason to think that's even where MS is going, with this device.
Honestly - that Zune HD demo was pretty fucking lame. Let's just recap what the video showed:
1. Wallpaper that slides up to reveal a menu.
2. Clicks on Music to show a list of artists.
3. Plays an artist (even thought there is no audio but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. No, scrubbing for songs, no slider for audio level.
4. View pictures - this was actually exciting, I was actually starting to fall asleep at that point, but perked up then and there.
5. View a list of videos. The demonstrator "discovers" that nothing happens when you turn the Zune sideways in this mode. Guess he figured he was using an iPod for a minute there.
6. View the radio - again no audio - I'm assuming it works, but maybe they haven't put speakers on the thing???
That was about it.
So to recap - Microsoft has demonstrated a device which can browse a few lists - but actually has no functionality at all - most notably - it does not seem to be able to play music, something which I hope is high on their to-do list. They have demonstrated a "nifty" transition between views, and a title which becomes illedgible once you enter it but that seems to be all they are bringing to the table at this point in time.
the whole, "call me when OSX outsells windows" argument is such a joke. Most consumers are uneducated / afraid to switch. They're not buying windows because it's better, they're buying it because it's all they know. "Hello, best buy? Yes, i'd like your cheapest computer with a fancy looking LCD monitor. It has Vista? What's that? Oh well, i'll take it anyway, Thanks!"
I was in staples the other day and there was a woman in there looking at some windows box. I actually felt bad for her. I was almost compelled to intervene and educate her a little, but unfortunately some people just don't / won't get it.
Not defending MS at all, but you hit it right on the head with the people buying a cheap computer. A vast majority of people cant afford a Mac and thus a $500 E-Machine works great for them. The problem is that you believe that if everyone could experience OS X they would switch. The only way most people would switch is if Apple made a super cheap PC at the same price as E-Machine.
Hmm. Well, I have one. Not being a regular follower of Giants baseball, I can't say for sure what station this app typically uses... but At Bat 2009, the MLB.com app, lists the home audio for this evening's Giants - Cardinals matchup as being KNBR 680. So, now that I've paid my $9.99 for the app, I can in fact listen to the game - apparently on EXACTLY the station you wanted to listen to - for free over wireless OR 3G.
I suppose that you might not want to pay the $9.99 for the app, but I don't want to pay an extra $9.99 or whatever to get a built-in radio that I won't use. Especially since my chances of receiving KNBR via radio broadcast are pretty small here in Florida. Plus, I also get all of the other games, home or away audio, as well as a pretty damned good realtime gameday app showing AB, pitch locator, etc. I'm a Braves fan living out of their market, but I can hear them ALL using this app. From anywhere in the country. Radio won't do that.
Based on having paid for the MLB.tv service last year, I was all but certain that this app would suck as bad, but no. They must have hired someone to write it because it's good. I think it does a great job of leveraging a great interface for high usability.
Disclaimer: I do not work for Apple, MLB, or whoever coded that app. I've simply been pleased with it.
Not defending MS at all, but you hit it right on the head with the people buying a cheap computer. A vast majority of people cant afford a Mac and thus a $500 E-Machine works great for them. The problem is that you believe that if everyone could experience OS X they would switch. The only way most people would switch is if Apple made a super cheap PC at the same price as E-Machine.
a long-term cost analysis of mac vs. PC is an eternal debate, and not something i'm particularly interested in starting on a friday afternoon lol...Bottom line - macs do indeed cost more upfront. However, they generally have a lower cost of ownership and much higher resale value. The intangible benefits (OSX, etc) extend the discussion even further.
In my opinion, Macs are by far a better value, even if the sticker shock turns some people off.
Edit: I'll add the following as well - I would rather go on eBay and buy a 2-3 year old mac than purchases ANY brand new windows computer. Hands down, no questions asked. That says quite a lot about the value OSX.
Edit: I'll add the following as well - I would rather go on eBay and buy a 2-3 year old mac than purchases ANY brand new windows computer. Hands down, no questions asked. That says quite a lot about the value OSX.
The problem is Windows Mobile and zune HD OS are two different versions of Windows CE. The APIs etc. employed by Windows Mobile Apps do not necessarily exist on zHDOS (In fact, almost all of them almost certainly do not, outside of the base Windows CE APIs etc.). Compatibility of WiMo apps with zune HD OS is extremely unlikely.
Well we'll find out soon. Apparently they'll announce what can run on the software at E3. The other nerds I talk to seem to think what I think. But again, I added to the hearsay and I apologize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
and your comments are even worse.
OMG. those "countless" WinMo apps - let's just consider the current 6.x ones - are nearly all primitive apps for small screens with cursor/keyboard UI that can't run on a touchscreen - so they can't possibly run on the Zilch HD! maybe some new 6.5 WinMo apps could - but MS has not said so or even hinted that, so that would be "hearsay and rumor" - actually pure guesswork on your part. my guess, admittedly, is that MS intends to bring apps to the Zilch next year with WinMo 7 instead, since that will be a much more advanced OS than the obsolete 6.x.
meanwhile, the Touch has got great apps for real - today. end of that story.
First off - try reading through the thread. I apologized for contradicting myself by adding hearsay and guesses, but that doesn't matter to you.
Second - Like I said, don't speak about what you don't know. Go do some reading. WM apps can run on touch screens, as they have for years now. This really was a bad comment to make.
So like I said, sorry for adding to hearsay, but at least I'm not adding complete misinformation as you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
dude, both the Zilch HD and the 2009 Touch will go on sale at nearly the same time in the fall. everyone is going to compare those two against each other in deciding what to buy whether you approve or not. it would be stupid to compare the Zilch against the 2008 Touch instead. what we know about the 2009 Touch for sure is it will run the iPhone 3.0 software we already have some details about and will learn much more in two weeks. it is fair to say the addition of GPS location services is highly likely, and the addition of a camera is very possible. (a processor speed bump would also be expected since that is the norm.) how do you think the Zilch's new HD radio and 720p output features will stack up against those new Touch features in the marketplace (hint: a blowout of someone).
You didn't understand what I meant. I'll explain it. See, if Apple did the same as Microsoft and gave us a glimpse of the 2009 Touch, we could compare. They haven't. So we can't. We know what's in the 3.0 update, but that's about it. Whatever awesome innovations Apple has up their sleeve, we can't speak to, and this is something a lot of people are doing.
When we know more about the new Touch, it will make more sense to compare it's features to the features Microsoft has said the Zune will have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
yes it will catch the eye of a few million teenage boys whose lives revolve around their XBox. will give you that one.
See, it's hard to have a serious discussion when you ignore reality. 30 million units sold isn't a "few." Besides that, do you seriously think they design these devices with the middle aged businessman in mind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
whereas more and more TV makers just let you plug your iPhone/Touch/iPod directly into the TV for playback. as to formats, let's see what outputs the 3.0 OS supports in two weeks.
OK... You do understand it's a pain to pick that TV up and take it with you right? Having the ability to plug an ipod directly into a TV doesn't mean much compared to being able to plug a device like the Zune into any TV (even the ones designed for the iphone/ipod.) I mean, I know video cables exist, but that's standard definition.
Face it, HD video output capability is REALLY cool, and yes I do hope the Touch gets it. I'm not sitting here brown nosing Microsoft. Packard Bell could have made this thing, and if it did hat they said it did, I'd still be interested in it. It's why I'm holding out for a netbook that supports hdmi (I'd like to be able to bring my movie collection with me and display it in a reasonable way for friends on their TV's.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
yeah, sure.
glad we can agree on something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep
HOW THE FCUK DO know this is a decent product ?? look M,S fans are welcome here ,but stop the pretend shit ok
the zune is not even out yet . the hd is for sound not video . you keep on blabbing line after line about a product yet to be released .
The HD is for video also. If you notice, it will have hd out capability. Of course it's little screen isn't going to be 1920x1080 or even 1280x720. Even if they could squeeze that pixel density into a screen, would it really make a difference? Is it really bothering you that the little screen isn't HD!? At that size, even standard definition looks great.
As fas as babbling on about a product yet to be released, isn't that the norm around here? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there been article after article posted containing "rumors" about the upcoming iphone or touch? Give me a break. If you want to ridicule me for doing this, you should ridicule everyone else as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep
think about us apple fans who talk about known products and people like you who love MS .. well you came to apple fan site and try to defend shitty products or devices yet to be made . why bother go back to MS world and stay there .
Listen, I know it's an odd concept, but I don't play favorites when it comes to technology. It may seem odd that I sit here and try to defend the positive traits the Zune HD carries against people's comments on how it sucks and won't beat the Touch 2009, but the honest truth is I couldn't care less about who made this product if I tried. If packard bell was behind the zune and announced these types of features, I'd still get stoked. I'm a TECHNOLOGY fanboy and I don't limit my preferences to a single company. That's boring and moronic. BTW I have an ipod touch 8gb. Isn't that WEIRD?
Now, to squash this. I apologize for assuming the Windows CE OS will run apps designed for Windows CE. They heavily modified it so this might not be the case, but again, it will be made clearer at E3.
I'm sorry that I said I think it seems to be a decent product and that the HD output intrigues me. I know by saying this, I did not join in with the collective consciousness around here and somehow ANGERED some folks.
I'm sorry that because I think this might be a decent product, people here somehow think I don't like the Touch, hate Apple, and want to cradle Microsoft's balls with my chin and drink their gravy.
I'm sorry that I have to say sorry when really, I see a lot worse.
If anyone like bru cp is wondering: I don't come to an Apple site to start trouble, I don't come here to defend Microsoft no matter what and bash Apple. I come here because I'm interested in Apple news just as I am with any news in technology. I try not to attack anyone for their opinion, please don't attack me for mine.
Well we'll find out soon. Apparently they'll announce what can run on the software at E3. The other nerds I talk to seem to think what I think. But again, I added to the hearsay and I apologize.
First off - try reading through the thread. I apologized for contradicting myself by adding hearsay and guesses, but that doesn't matter to you.
Second - Like I said, don't speak about what you don't know. Go do some reading. WM apps can run on touch screens, as they have for years now. This really was a bad comment to make.
So like I said, sorry for adding to hearsay, but at least I'm not adding complete misinformation as you are.
You didn't understand what I meant. I'll explain it. See, if Apple did the same as Microsoft and gave us a glimpse of the 2009 Touch, we could compare. They haven't. So we can't. We know what's in the 3.0 update, but that's about it. Whatever awesome innovations Apple has up their sleeve, we can't speak to, and this is something a lot of people are doing.
When we know more about the new Touch, it will make more sense to compare it's features to the features Microsoft has said the Zune will have.
See, it's hard to have a serious discussion when you ignore reality. 30 million units sold isn't a "few." Besides that, do you seriously think they design these devices with the middle aged businessman in mind?
OK... You do understand it's a pain to pick that TV up and take it with you right? Having the ability to plug an ipod directly into a TV doesn't mean much compared to being able to plug a device like the Zune into any TV (even the ones designed for the iphone/ipod.) I mean, I know video cables exist, but that's standard definition.
Face it, HD video output capability is REALLY cool, and yes I do hope the Touch gets it. I'm not sitting here brown nosing Microsoft. Packard Bell could have made this thing, and if it did hat they said it did, I'd still be interested in it. It's why I'm holding out for a netbook that supports hdmi.
glad we can agree on something.
The HD is for video also. If you notice, it will have hd out capability. Of course it's little screen isn't going to be 1920x1080 or even 1280x720. Even if they could squeeze that pixel density into a screen, would it really make a difference? Is it really bothering you that the little screen isn't HD!? At that size, even standard definition looks great.
As fas as babbling on about a product yet to be released, isn't that the norm around here? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there been article after article posted containing "rumors" about the upcoming iphone or touch? Give me a break. If you want to ridicule me for doing this, you should ridicule everyone else as well.
Listen, I know it's an odd concept, but I don't play favorites when it comes to technology. It may seem odd that I sit here and try to defend the positive traits the Zune HD carries against people's comments on how it sucks and won't beat the Touch 2009, but the honest truth is I couldn't care less about who made this product if I tried. If packard bell was behind the zune and announced these types of features, I'd still get stoked. I'm a TECHNOLOGY fanboy and I don't limit my preferences to a single company. That's boring and moronic. BTW I have an ipod touch 8gb. Isn't that WEIRD?
Now, to squash this. I apologize for assuming the Windows CE OS will run apps designed for Windows CE. They heavily modified it so this might not be the case, but again, it will be made clearer at E3.
I'm sorry that I said I think it seems to be a decent product and that the HD output intrigues me. I know by saying this, I did not join in with the collective consciousness around here and somehow ANGERED some folks.
I'm sorry that because I think this might be a decent product, people here somehow think I don't like the Touch, hate Apple, and want to cradle Microsoft's balls with my chin and drink their gravy.
I'm sorry that I have to say sorry when really, I see a lot worse.
If anyone like bru cp is wondering: I don't come to an Apple site to start trouble, I don't come here to defend Microsoft no matter what and bash Apple. I come here because I'm interested in Apple news just as I am with any news in technology. I try not to attack anyone for their opinion, please don't attack me for mine.
Dude maybe I was too strong I am sorry .It just seemed that you hate apple. I also wish zune the best . As you said its just a machine .
Also it is misleading to say zune hd , when it does not play hd on the zune itself .99 percent of the people will never get it . They will be fooled . Now hd out means what ??? I first put hd into the zune and then I play it on my tv ???
Since the day I signed up for an unlimited 3G data plan for other purposes. Because I (and every other AT&T iPhone customer, AFAIK) already have a 3G plan (and I would even if I weren't required to), listening to MLB over 3G is free. I don't pay per game, I don't pay per byte. There is no monthly fee from MLB, either.
I mean, if you are wanting to amortize my 3G plan costs over the usage share due to MLB.com's app, you might as well do the same thing for my home internet service and go ahead and amortize the cost of equipment, wiring, electricity to run the access point, etc. Or, you could look at it from the point of view of incremental cost: once I've invested in the infrastructure (iPhone 3G, dataplan), there is NO incremental cost.
Did either of those answer the question you wanted to ask?
Comments
So we grew up at the same time. NPR is great and in even small communities (Southern Oregon) it is live and local and even HD ... AM HD. This is the only radio I know of that includes AM. As an audio only player, it rocks.
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/am-fm-r...c-witness.aspx
Do they have an app for SF Giants baseball on KNBR? I think not.
Hmm. Well, I have one. Not being a regular follower of Giants baseball, I can't say for sure what station this app typically uses... but At Bat 2009, the MLB.com app, lists the home audio for this evening's Giants - Cardinals matchup as being KNBR 680. So, now that I've paid my $9.99 for the app, I can in fact listen to the game - apparently on EXACTLY the station you wanted to listen to - for free over wireless OR 3G.
I suppose that you might not want to pay the $9.99 for the app, but I don't want to pay an extra $9.99 or whatever to get a built-in radio that I won't use. Especially since my chances of receiving KNBR via radio broadcast are pretty small here in Florida. Plus, I also get all of the other games, home or away audio, as well as a pretty damned good realtime gameday app showing AB, pitch locator, etc. I'm a Braves fan living out of their market, but I can hear them ALL using this app. From anywhere in the country. Radio won't do that.
Based on having paid for the MLB.tv service last year, I was all but certain that this app would suck as bad, but no. They must have hired someone to write it because it's good. I think it does a great job of leveraging a great interface for high usability.
Disclaimer: I do not work for Apple, MLB, or whoever coded that app. I've simply been pleased with it.
From anywhere in the country.
Correction - anywhere in the world using WiFi.
You act as if Windows CE's development has been stalled all this time. Windows CE has been developed all through this decade.
Windows CE actually has nearly a decade and a half of development and refinement behind it. iPhone OS is the new comer here.
Windows CE 5 in 2004 brought Direct3D, DirectDraw, and DirectShow. DirectShow is neat because it does things that even OS X still doesn't do. Like full hardware support for video playback, rather than putting it all on the CPU like OS X
So don't go discounting Windows CE. It's been well developed over the last few years and uses the industry standard for 3D graphics, Direct3D. You also have to take into account that nvidia Tegra supports Direct3D Mobile. The GeForce ULV even supports programmable shaders. The Tegra's 3D capabilities are definitely well beyond that sub-Dreamcast/barely above N64 PowerVR chip in the iPod touch and iPhone.
....
Oh please. That whole "Apple leading the way" nonsense hasn't been true since the mid 90s. Let's not forget that Windows was first with multi-processor SMP support, and Windows had pre-emptive multi-tasking about 5 years before Mac OS did. OS X still can't even support full hardware video playback, and the multi-display support on Apple notebooks is all messed up. Why do I have to start the system with the lid closed or sleep it and wake it back up to get it to use an external display only? Why can't I choose it in software like Windows has allowed me since ooh.. Windows 98?
So is that why Windows CE phones are so much more advanced than the iPhone? Mac OS 9 is still around...doesn't make it a great OS for a media player or a phone. Both your rebuttals lead to the same point I was making originally. That is Microsoft has no intentions much less capability to lead. They can only attempt to strangle what becomes successful to make it their own. Even your OS rebuttal to the Mac is full of examples you attest to Microsoft when indeed they were developed by others prior to being incorporated into Windows. Jeez, NEXT had multi-tasking before Windows and that's what Mac OS X is built on.
And honestly...those examples (forgetting that you're completely off base on some of your Mac hardware knowledge)...do you really call that innovation (regardless that Microsoft didn't develop)? The average Joe has no idea what those are or the benefit from it. I'm talking about innovation as an industry standard. The Mac GUI, the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone...these have all caused changes in the industry as well as the consumer's conscience. BOB, WebTV, SmartWatch, Zune, Tablet PC, talking PCs, Passport, Windows ME, the 1st Edition "The Road Ahead" (ie - Gates completely dispels the Internet)...all examples of where Microsoft tried to lead and has fallen flat on their face. I certainly don't see or hear of Apple trying to build a "Zune killer"!
It's funny you say that, considering the number of people who subscribe to music services numbers in the millions.
And if you want to talk numbers, let's talk about how many copies of Leopard have been sold versus the amount of copies of Vista that have been sold in the same time period
The only number that matters in the long run are profit and stock performance. Leopard helped build the Apple brand and market share, Vista didn't do the same for MS. iTunes and Amazon are profitable ventures, no subscription service that I know of is currently even breaking even.
I am amazed how many people on this thread imagine that the device that was demoed is any competition to the iPod.
If you look, it's not that many. It's just a couple that keep posting the same arguments over and over. And then they call us fanboys.
...Apple is and will always be the a mere cheap copy of an iPod....
Wow..
Ok, so it's a bit pricey (this is Apple, after all), and doesn't work with the touch according to Apple's store, but here ya go:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MA...mco=NDcwMzE1Mg
I already knew of this product. Yes, it does cost too much. Everything Apple does seem to have a high price tag at first glance. This one does even at second glance. Based on the reviews, it is way below Apple's standards of quality. We all have our desires, and I have zero use for the photo and video side of iPod or Zune. My eyesight is bad enough already. I don't need the frustration of trying to look at stuff on a tiny screen. For me (and only me) that is just dumb. I am interested in a portable audio only device with everything but the kitchen sink in it. I posted a link in a previous message.
From what we've been shown, the Zune HD is using WinCE to basically replicate the existing Zune UI with animations.
It doesn't even appear to be trying to be a Touch rival, it's more like a big touchscreen Nano.
The Touch is a general purpose computing device running a subset of a desktop class OS. The Zune HD appears to be a media player running an offshoot of a componentized, embedded OS originally designed for extremely constrained devices, which may or may not at some point merge with whatever MS is selling for a phone OS at that time.
The idea that WinCE is poised to leap forward and eclipse the iPhone OS is insane, and the Zune HD gives no reason to think that's even where MS is going, with this device.
It's been said a couple of times, but it bears repeating:
The idea that WinCE is poised to leap forward and eclipse the iPhone OS is insane, and the Zune HD gives no reason to think that's even where MS is going, with this device.
Honestly - that Zune HD demo was pretty fucking lame. Let's just recap what the video showed:
1. Wallpaper that slides up to reveal a menu.
2. Clicks on Music to show a list of artists.
3. Plays an artist (even thought there is no audio but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. No, scrubbing for songs, no slider for audio level.
4. View pictures - this was actually exciting, I was actually starting to fall asleep at that point, but perked up then and there.
5. View a list of videos. The demonstrator "discovers" that nothing happens when you turn the Zune sideways in this mode. Guess he figured he was using an iPod for a minute there.
6. View the radio - again no audio - I'm assuming it works, but maybe they haven't put speakers on the thing???
That was about it.
So to recap - Microsoft has demonstrated a device which can browse a few lists - but actually has no functionality at all - most notably - it does not seem to be able to play music, something which I hope is high on their to-do list. They have demonstrated a "nifty" transition between views, and a title which becomes illedgible once you enter it but that seems to be all they are bringing to the table at this point in time.
the whole, "call me when OSX outsells windows" argument is such a joke. Most consumers are uneducated / afraid to switch. They're not buying windows because it's better, they're buying it because it's all they know. "Hello, best buy? Yes, i'd like your cheapest computer with a fancy looking LCD monitor. It has Vista? What's that? Oh well, i'll take it anyway, Thanks!"
I was in staples the other day and there was a woman in there looking at some windows box. I actually felt bad for her. I was almost compelled to intervene and educate her a little, but unfortunately some people just don't / won't get it.
Not defending MS at all, but you hit it right on the head with the people buying a cheap computer. A vast majority of people cant afford a Mac and thus a $500 E-Machine works great for them. The problem is that you believe that if everyone could experience OS X they would switch. The only way most people would switch is if Apple made a super cheap PC at the same price as E-Machine.
Hmm. Well, I have one. Not being a regular follower of Giants baseball, I can't say for sure what station this app typically uses... but At Bat 2009, the MLB.com app, lists the home audio for this evening's Giants - Cardinals matchup as being KNBR 680. So, now that I've paid my $9.99 for the app, I can in fact listen to the game - apparently on EXACTLY the station you wanted to listen to - for free over wireless OR 3G.
I suppose that you might not want to pay the $9.99 for the app, but I don't want to pay an extra $9.99 or whatever to get a built-in radio that I won't use. Especially since my chances of receiving KNBR via radio broadcast are pretty small here in Florida. Plus, I also get all of the other games, home or away audio, as well as a pretty damned good realtime gameday app showing AB, pitch locator, etc. I'm a Braves fan living out of their market, but I can hear them ALL using this app. From anywhere in the country. Radio won't do that.
Based on having paid for the MLB.tv service last year, I was all but certain that this app would suck as bad, but no. They must have hired someone to write it because it's good. I think it does a great job of leveraging a great interface for high usability.
Disclaimer: I do not work for Apple, MLB, or whoever coded that app. I've simply been pleased with it.
When did 3G become free?
Let's also not forget the iPod touch OS doesn't HAVE a hierarchical scrolling menu system - it's WAY more advanced than that!!
The iphone OS is invisible..
This guy talks out of his arse..
Not defending MS at all, but you hit it right on the head with the people buying a cheap computer. A vast majority of people cant afford a Mac and thus a $500 E-Machine works great for them. The problem is that you believe that if everyone could experience OS X they would switch. The only way most people would switch is if Apple made a super cheap PC at the same price as E-Machine.
a long-term cost analysis of mac vs. PC is an eternal debate, and not something i'm particularly interested in starting on a friday afternoon lol...Bottom line - macs do indeed cost more upfront. However, they generally have a lower cost of ownership and much higher resale value. The intangible benefits (OSX, etc) extend the discussion even further.
In my opinion, Macs are by far a better value, even if the sticker shock turns some people off.
Edit: I'll add the following as well - I would rather go on eBay and buy a 2-3 year old mac than purchases ANY brand new windows computer. Hands down, no questions asked. That says quite a lot about the value OSX.
Edit: I'll add the following as well - I would rather go on eBay and buy a 2-3 year old mac than purchases ANY brand new windows computer. Hands down, no questions asked. That says quite a lot about the value OSX.
Or the stubbornness of the locked Apple skin.
The problem is Windows Mobile and zune HD OS are two different versions of Windows CE. The APIs etc. employed by Windows Mobile Apps do not necessarily exist on zHDOS (In fact, almost all of them almost certainly do not, outside of the base Windows CE APIs etc.). Compatibility of WiMo apps with zune HD OS is extremely unlikely.
Well we'll find out soon. Apparently they'll announce what can run on the software at E3. The other nerds I talk to seem to think what I think. But again, I added to the hearsay and I apologize.
and your comments are even worse.
OMG. those "countless" WinMo apps - let's just consider the current 6.x ones - are nearly all primitive apps for small screens with cursor/keyboard UI that can't run on a touchscreen - so they can't possibly run on the Zilch HD! maybe some new 6.5 WinMo apps could - but MS has not said so or even hinted that, so that would be "hearsay and rumor" - actually pure guesswork on your part. my guess, admittedly, is that MS intends to bring apps to the Zilch next year with WinMo 7 instead, since that will be a much more advanced OS than the obsolete 6.x.
meanwhile, the Touch has got great apps for real - today. end of that story.
First off - try reading through the thread. I apologized for contradicting myself by adding hearsay and guesses, but that doesn't matter to you.
Second - Like I said, don't speak about what you don't know. Go do some reading. WM apps can run on touch screens, as they have for years now. This really was a bad comment to make.
So like I said, sorry for adding to hearsay, but at least I'm not adding complete misinformation as you are.
dude, both the Zilch HD and the 2009 Touch will go on sale at nearly the same time in the fall. everyone is going to compare those two against each other in deciding what to buy whether you approve or not. it would be stupid to compare the Zilch against the 2008 Touch instead. what we know about the 2009 Touch for sure is it will run the iPhone 3.0 software we already have some details about and will learn much more in two weeks. it is fair to say the addition of GPS location services is highly likely, and the addition of a camera is very possible. (a processor speed bump would also be expected since that is the norm.) how do you think the Zilch's new HD radio and 720p output features will stack up against those new Touch features in the marketplace (hint: a blowout of someone).
You didn't understand what I meant. I'll explain it. See, if Apple did the same as Microsoft and gave us a glimpse of the 2009 Touch, we could compare. They haven't. So we can't. We know what's in the 3.0 update, but that's about it. Whatever awesome innovations Apple has up their sleeve, we can't speak to, and this is something a lot of people are doing.
When we know more about the new Touch, it will make more sense to compare it's features to the features Microsoft has said the Zune will have.
yes it will catch the eye of a few million teenage boys whose lives revolve around their XBox. will give you that one.
See, it's hard to have a serious discussion when you ignore reality. 30 million units sold isn't a "few." Besides that, do you seriously think they design these devices with the middle aged businessman in mind?
whereas more and more TV makers just let you plug your iPhone/Touch/iPod directly into the TV for playback. as to formats, let's see what outputs the 3.0 OS supports in two weeks.
OK... You do understand it's a pain to pick that TV up and take it with you right? Having the ability to plug an ipod directly into a TV doesn't mean much compared to being able to plug a device like the Zune into any TV (even the ones designed for the iphone/ipod.) I mean, I know video cables exist, but that's standard definition.
Face it, HD video output capability is REALLY cool, and yes I do hope the Touch gets it. I'm not sitting here brown nosing Microsoft. Packard Bell could have made this thing, and if it did hat they said it did, I'd still be interested in it. It's why I'm holding out for a netbook that supports hdmi (I'd like to be able to bring my movie collection with me and display it in a reasonable way for friends on their TV's.)
yeah, sure.
glad we can agree on something.
HOW THE FCUK DO know this is a decent product ?? look M,S fans are welcome here ,but stop the pretend shit ok
the zune is not even out yet . the hd is for sound not video . you keep on blabbing line after line about a product yet to be released .
The HD is for video also. If you notice, it will have hd out capability. Of course it's little screen isn't going to be 1920x1080 or even 1280x720. Even if they could squeeze that pixel density into a screen, would it really make a difference? Is it really bothering you that the little screen isn't HD!? At that size, even standard definition looks great.
As fas as babbling on about a product yet to be released, isn't that the norm around here? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there been article after article posted containing "rumors" about the upcoming iphone or touch? Give me a break. If you want to ridicule me for doing this, you should ridicule everyone else as well.
think about us apple fans who talk about known products and people like you who love MS .. well you came to apple fan site and try to defend shitty products or devices yet to be made . why bother go back to MS world and stay there .
Listen, I know it's an odd concept, but I don't play favorites when it comes to technology. It may seem odd that I sit here and try to defend the positive traits the Zune HD carries against people's comments on how it sucks and won't beat the Touch 2009, but the honest truth is I couldn't care less about who made this product if I tried. If packard bell was behind the zune and announced these types of features, I'd still get stoked. I'm a TECHNOLOGY fanboy and I don't limit my preferences to a single company. That's boring and moronic. BTW I have an ipod touch 8gb. Isn't that WEIRD?
Now, to squash this. I apologize for assuming the Windows CE OS will run apps designed for Windows CE. They heavily modified it so this might not be the case, but again, it will be made clearer at E3.
I'm sorry that I said I think it seems to be a decent product and that the HD output intrigues me. I know by saying this, I did not join in with the collective consciousness around here and somehow ANGERED some folks.
I'm sorry that because I think this might be a decent product, people here somehow think I don't like the Touch, hate Apple, and want to cradle Microsoft's balls with my chin and drink their gravy.
I'm sorry that I have to say sorry when really, I see a lot worse.
If anyone like bru cp is wondering: I don't come to an Apple site to start trouble, I don't come here to defend Microsoft no matter what and bash Apple. I come here because I'm interested in Apple news just as I am with any news in technology. I try not to attack anyone for their opinion, please don't attack me for mine.
Well we'll find out soon. Apparently they'll announce what can run on the software at E3. The other nerds I talk to seem to think what I think. But again, I added to the hearsay and I apologize.
First off - try reading through the thread. I apologized for contradicting myself by adding hearsay and guesses, but that doesn't matter to you.
Second - Like I said, don't speak about what you don't know. Go do some reading. WM apps can run on touch screens, as they have for years now. This really was a bad comment to make.
So like I said, sorry for adding to hearsay, but at least I'm not adding complete misinformation as you are.
You didn't understand what I meant. I'll explain it. See, if Apple did the same as Microsoft and gave us a glimpse of the 2009 Touch, we could compare. They haven't. So we can't. We know what's in the 3.0 update, but that's about it. Whatever awesome innovations Apple has up their sleeve, we can't speak to, and this is something a lot of people are doing.
When we know more about the new Touch, it will make more sense to compare it's features to the features Microsoft has said the Zune will have.
See, it's hard to have a serious discussion when you ignore reality. 30 million units sold isn't a "few." Besides that, do you seriously think they design these devices with the middle aged businessman in mind?
OK... You do understand it's a pain to pick that TV up and take it with you right? Having the ability to plug an ipod directly into a TV doesn't mean much compared to being able to plug a device like the Zune into any TV (even the ones designed for the iphone/ipod.) I mean, I know video cables exist, but that's standard definition.
Face it, HD video output capability is REALLY cool, and yes I do hope the Touch gets it. I'm not sitting here brown nosing Microsoft. Packard Bell could have made this thing, and if it did hat they said it did, I'd still be interested in it. It's why I'm holding out for a netbook that supports hdmi.
glad we can agree on something.
The HD is for video also. If you notice, it will have hd out capability. Of course it's little screen isn't going to be 1920x1080 or even 1280x720. Even if they could squeeze that pixel density into a screen, would it really make a difference? Is it really bothering you that the little screen isn't HD!? At that size, even standard definition looks great.
As fas as babbling on about a product yet to be released, isn't that the norm around here? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't there been article after article posted containing "rumors" about the upcoming iphone or touch? Give me a break. If you want to ridicule me for doing this, you should ridicule everyone else as well.
Listen, I know it's an odd concept, but I don't play favorites when it comes to technology. It may seem odd that I sit here and try to defend the positive traits the Zune HD carries against people's comments on how it sucks and won't beat the Touch 2009, but the honest truth is I couldn't care less about who made this product if I tried. If packard bell was behind the zune and announced these types of features, I'd still get stoked. I'm a TECHNOLOGY fanboy and I don't limit my preferences to a single company. That's boring and moronic. BTW I have an ipod touch 8gb. Isn't that WEIRD?
Now, to squash this. I apologize for assuming the Windows CE OS will run apps designed for Windows CE. They heavily modified it so this might not be the case, but again, it will be made clearer at E3.
I'm sorry that I said I think it seems to be a decent product and that the HD output intrigues me. I know by saying this, I did not join in with the collective consciousness around here and somehow ANGERED some folks.
I'm sorry that because I think this might be a decent product, people here somehow think I don't like the Touch, hate Apple, and want to cradle Microsoft's balls with my chin and drink their gravy.
I'm sorry that I have to say sorry when really, I see a lot worse.
If anyone like bru cp is wondering: I don't come to an Apple site to start trouble, I don't come here to defend Microsoft no matter what and bash Apple. I come here because I'm interested in Apple news just as I am with any news in technology. I try not to attack anyone for their opinion, please don't attack me for mine.
Dude maybe I was too strong I am sorry .It just seemed that you hate apple. I also wish zune the best . As you said its just a machine .
Also it is misleading to say zune hd , when it does not play hd on the zune itself .99 percent of the people will never get it . They will be fooled . Now hd out means what ??? I first put hd into the zune and then I play it on my tv ???
When did 3G become free?
Since the day I signed up for an unlimited 3G data plan for other purposes. Because I (and every other AT&T iPhone customer, AFAIK) already have a 3G plan (and I would even if I weren't required to), listening to MLB over 3G is free. I don't pay per game, I don't pay per byte. There is no monthly fee from MLB, either.
I mean, if you are wanting to amortize my 3G plan costs over the usage share due to MLB.com's app, you might as well do the same thing for my home internet service and go ahead and amortize the cost of equipment, wiring, electricity to run the access point, etc. Or, you could look at it from the point of view of incremental cost: once I've invested in the infrastructure (iPhone 3G, dataplan), there is NO incremental cost.
Did either of those answer the question you wanted to ask?
Supported 720p HD video files play on the player, downscaled to fit the screen at 480 x 272 – not HD resolution.
(http://www.zune.net/en-us/mp3players/zunehd/default.htm)
So that settles the whole "I need the av dock just to see my movies" argument.