Review roundup: Palm's Pre and its fledgeling WebOS

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  • Reply 241 of 275
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    The problem with a slider phone is that its a movable part that will wear out and is more easily be broken when dropped.




    You'd think so (and even I did) but coming up on about eight months of use on my touch pro and the keyboard still slides in and out as snappy as day one, and dropping it has never messed it up.



    I did have to put a small piece of tape under the screen after getting it because of a quirk in the build that gave one side a bit more of a gap than the other side. I didn't feel like going through an RMA for something that insignificant though.
  • Reply 242 of 275
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I would give it a couple of years before making an evaluation.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    You'd think so (and even I did) but coming up on about eight months of use on my touch pro and the keyboard still slides in and out as snappy as day one, and dropping it has never messed it up.



  • Reply 243 of 275
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I would give it a couple of years before making an evaluation.



    lol I don't plan on having it that long. I'll let whoever buys it from me on ebay deal with what it does in a couple of years. The TP2 might be something I'll hold on for 2 years, but who knows. I might end up buying a Tegra based phone a year or so from now.
  • Reply 244 of 275
    sennensennen Posts: 1,470member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Not obsessed at all - but you and your ilk on here are in denial biig time if you don't think a swappable battery on a muti-function device serves a purpose.



    serves a purpose, but isn't an absolute requirement for the majority of iPhone users.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    I can't believe the Pre is a slider! I always thoght Apple should have manufactured a slider version of the iPhone -and this very close to it. Bravo to Palm.

    At first I thought it was just a keyboard that extended from it. but now I see that it is a full slider phone! I am salivating!

    BTW-The screen is supposed to be breathtaking.



    portrait keyboard renders landscape mode pretty daft. personally i prefer a touchscreen keyboard to a cramped button one that is going to wear out.



    oh and dude, 2 and a half years newer and it doesn't do video, it doesn't do flash and copy/paste is crippled! you should complain to someone.
  • Reply 245 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    I can't believe the Pre is a slider! I always thoght Apple should have manufactured a slider version of the iPhone -and this very close to it. Bravo to Palm.

    At first I thought it was just a keyboard that extended from it. but now I see that it is a full slider phone! I am salivating!

    BTW-The screen is supposed to be breathtaking.



    Except that the keyboard is one of the weaknesses that reviewers have been pointing out. Only one person so far has found it to be really to his liking. All the others have commented on the problems.



    BTW, no 3.1" diagonal screen can ever be described as "breathtaking".



    The Grand Canyon is breathtaking. IMAX could be described as breathtaking, but not a 3.1" screen.
  • Reply 246 of 275
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    For my money, "awesome", "stunning" and "breathtaking" should all be banned from use by tech writers.



    Every time I read some wretched tech pundit inform me that a bit of UI animation or curved case part is "stunning", I wonder how they came by their absurdly promiscuous sense of wonderment.



    I imagine them wandering the world, reacting with shocked awe and astonishment at every other object they encounter.
  • Reply 247 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    For my money, "awesome", "stunning" and "breathtaking" should all be banned from use by tech writers.



    Every time I read some wretched tech pundit inform me that a bit of UI animation or curved case part is "stunning", I wonder how they came by their absurdly promiscuous sense of wonderment.



    I imagine them wandering the world, reacting with shocked awe and astonishment at every other object they encounter.



    One of the favorite expressions in "high end audio" is "blows me away".



    What that really means is that if you strain to hear it (if it exists at all), and notice something (even if others don't), then it "blows you away".
  • Reply 248 of 275
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Last summer I saw "The Dark Knight" twice at the IMAX at Lincoln Center. Both times you could hear an audible gasp from the audience at the first shot of the film looking over highrise buildings. You literally felt as though you were floating in the air.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    IMAX could be described as breathtaking, but not a 3.1" screen.



  • Reply 249 of 275
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    The thing I like about my Kensington mini battery pack for my iPhone is that I can remain on a call and simply plug it in.



    It's charging now on a USB port on my work PC because I used it to charge my iPhone as I was having lunch, it's about the same size as any other phone battery and comes with a retractable USB cord.



    I can even plug my iPhone in while it's charging which means I can charge my iPhone using a standard mini USB plug.



    Having it means I can continuously use the Internet for 7-8 hours.



    I wonder how well a Pre would cope with changing the battery on a dark night in the rain.
  • Reply 250 of 275
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    The problem with a slider phone is that its a movable part that will wear out and is more easily be broken when dropped.



    As opposed to using a phone with a glass screen? Isn't that also a fragility risk?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I would give it a couple of years before making an evaluation.



    Didn't you say some time ago that most people don't keep their phones that long? Or am I remembering someone else?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


    portrait keyboard renders landscape mode pretty daft. personally i prefer a touchscreen keyboard to a cramped button one that is going to wear out.



    iPhone didn't have much of a landscape keyboard for two years, just Safari, and while I liked the size of the keys, it did take a lot of screen. Was landscape mode daft during those two years?



    I can't say I've ever had a button wear out on any phone.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    Having it means I can continuously use the Internet for 7-8 hours.



    That's a lot of internet use for such a small device, don't you cramp up?
  • Reply 251 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    iPhone didn't have much of a landscape keyboard for two years, just Safari, and while I liked the size of the keys, it did take a lot of screen. Was landscape mode daft during those two years?



    Typing in landscape mode is mostly useless since it uses so much of the display. I?m glad the option is there, but I certainly won?t be using it much



    On the Pre, landscape mode for a physical keyboard slider would have made more sense, IMO. It would have kept the keys from being so cramped and there is no lose of the display space to use it in that mode, obviously. As other reviewers have stated, the physical keyboard looks to be an issue for several reasons.



    I hope Palm excels with the Pre but that decision isn?t looking too good.
  • Reply 252 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Yikes! There were only 11 people at Sprint flagship store in Manhattan waiting for the Pre (though that could be the queue for returning the device ). I would have thought that store would have drawn a larger crowd.
  • Reply 253 of 275
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    As opposed to using a phone with a glass screen? Isn't that also a fragility risk?



    It is a risk, but with a difference. A glass screen may break if dropped at the right angle. A moving part will wear out and will break given time.



    Quote:

    Didn't you say some time ago that most people don't keep their phones that long? Or am I remembering someone else?



    I don't recall saying that. But from the stats I've read two years is about average.
  • Reply 254 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    As opposed to using a phone with a glass screen? Isn't that also a fragility risk?



    These screens aren't really "glass". The surface is glass just a few thousands thick, bonded to the plastic underneath. The glass is very flexible, and difficult to break. The plastic absorbs the shock. That's been proven by the very few problems people are having with them.



    Quote:

    iPhone didn't have much of a landscape keyboard for two years, just Safari, and while I liked the size of the keys, it did take a lot of screen. Was landscape mode daft during those two years?



    It was very annoying not having a landscape keyboard. I bought TouchType, but it's marginally usable because it only works in Mail, and isn't as seamless as I had hoped.



    The point he's making, I think, is that typing on a landscape keyboard is easier, and just having a portrait one not only makes it impossible, but also makes landscape mode in many programs difficult. If you're in landscape mode in the browser, and you tap the to enable the keyboard to type, it would switch to portrait if a landscape keyboard wasn't available. Then what would happen? Would it revert back to landscape afterwards? Would it know when you were through if you were filling out several lines of blanks? would it revert after each blank was filled? would it wait until you were through?



    How would this work. Really silly.



    But having the touch screen fixes all these problems, as it can work either way.



    Quote:

    I can't say I've ever had a button wear out on any phone.



    I haven't either, but I've had them get stuck at times.



    Quote:

    That's a lot of internet use for such a small device, don't you cramp up?



    I can't believe that anyone, no matter what they say, is using their phone for internet use for 7-8 hours at a stretch.
  • Reply 255 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Typing in landscape mode is mostly useless since it uses so much of the display. I’m glad the option is there, but I certainly won’t be using it much



    On the Pre, landscape mode for a physical keyboard slider would have made more sense, IMO. It would have kept the keys from being so cramped and there is no lose of the display space to use it in that mode, obviously. As other reviewers have stated, the physical keyboard looks to be an issue for several reasons.



    I hope Palm excels with the Pre but that decision isn’t looking too good.



    I disagree. Why would you care how much of the screen it uses? All you need is one or two lines of text to see. It actually works very well, as tabbed spaces you have to fill in for passwords and such are larger and easier to tap on without going through all of the stretching in portrait mode. There is actually MORE type on the screen in landscape than there is with portrait. I use TouchType, and other than for the inconvenience of it not being a built-in keyboard, typing is much better. I'm eagerly awaiting Apple's.



    I don't know the measurement of the keyboard from the edge to the leftmost key to the rightmost, but it looks to be smaller than the one on my Treo 700p, which is small enough already. I never liked that one.



    This one looks much worse. The keyboard on the N97, which is in landscape, which gives a much bigger one, has one of the problems of this, which is a very close overhanging phone housing close to the top keys. I've always found them (keyboards like that) to be difficult to use as your fingers often hit the edge of the housing, and slides them to the keys below, getting a double letter. You have to be careful, and instead of hitting the key with the center of your thumb, you have to hit them with the top of your thumb, with it angled just right. It's a pain.



    Now, with the Pre, you will have to be careful of the raised edges as well, something I've never seen before on a phone keyboard.
  • Reply 256 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I disagree. Why would you care how much of the screen it uses? All you need is one or two lines of text to see. It actually works very well, as tabbed spaces you have to fill in for passwords and such are larger and easier to tap on without going through all of the stretching in portrait mode. [?]



    I?ve tried using landscape mode in Safari since the v1.0 and have tested the new, more system-wide, landscape with v3.0. I don?t like it. The virtual keyboard is too spread out making it hard to type on than in portrait mode and the the lack of space for typing is bothersome. Most of my typing is replying to various forums and to emails. I?m accustomed to having at least part of the text I?m replying to in front of me. It?s not an ideal situation for me at all.



    The Pre?s keyboard is cramped and would have probably faired better in reviews had it been landscape mode. It would have afforded a larger keyboard without removing any display space. Of course, the curved slider wouldn?t have have looked as cool. I hope that wasn?t the focus of the physical design.



    Like I stated, I?m glad the option is there as people have asked for it and there is no reason why it shouldn?t be included if it was available for Safari, but it?s not to my liking.
  • Reply 257 of 275
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    These screens aren't really "glass". The surface is glass just a few thousands thick, bonded to the plastic underneath. The glass is very flexible, and difficult to break. The plastic absorbs the shock. That's been proven by the very few problems people are having with them.



    There's glass but they really aren't glass? Having replaced mine, I think you're underselling how much glass is in that face plate. I'd say it's maybe fifteen to twenty thousands thick. (addendum: I found my old one, the touch face is two layers, about 0.035" each with maybe something between, about 0.078" total, top is glass, the back layer is probably plastic)



    It is pretty resilient for having glass, but I did manage to break mine. iPhone is the only device which I've broken the screen like that.



    I question any assertion, vague or not, of the rarity or otherwise of iPhone glass breaking. It does happen. That's all we really know. We don't know if it's common or rare. I know not everyone is breaking them. Then we don't know about the rarity of sliders breaking or wearing out to properly compare the risk either. So yes, it's hand waving against hand waving, but I thought it's worth pointing out that it's a bit one sided to not acknowledge the durability risks on both sides.
  • Reply 258 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I?ve tried using landscape mode in Safari since the v1.0 and have tested the new, more system-wide, landscape with v3.0. I don?t like it. The virtual keyboard is too spread out making it hard to type on than in portrait mode and the the lack of space for typing is bothersome. Most of my typing is replying to various forums and to emails. I?m accustomed to having at least part of the text I?m replying to in front of me. It?s not an ideal situation for me at all.



    I don't see that problem. There is no text available in portrait mode either. I don't understand how you find a difference there. Even if the last line could be seen, that offers no help. The portrait mode gives a bigger keyboard, which is why so many people want them, so your statement about it being more spread out seems to be something only a small number of people might not like.



    Quote:

    The Pre?s keyboard is cramped and would have probably faired better in reviews had it been landscape mode. It would have afforded a larger keyboard without removing any display space. Of course, the curved slider wouldn?t have have looked as cool. I hope that wasn?t the focus of the physical design.



    From what I read and see, the keyboard sucks. I'll go to the Sprint store in my neighborhood in a couple of days and try it.



    I'll bet the way it looks was part of the reason why they did it that way.



    Quote:

    Like I stated, I?m glad the option is there as people have asked for it and there is no reason why it shouldn?t be included if it was available for Safari, but it?s not to my liking.



    That's the advantage of an on screen keyboard, you can have it both ways.
  • Reply 259 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    There's glass but they really aren't glass? Having replaced mine, I think you're underselling how much glass is in that face plate. I'd say it's maybe fifteen to twenty thousands thick. (addendum: I found my old one, the touch face is two layers, about 0.035" each with something between, about 0.078" total)



    It is pretty resilient for having glass, but I did manage to break mine. iPhone is the only device which I've broken the screen like that.



    I question any assertion, vague or not, of the rarity or otherwise of iPhone glass breaking. It does happen. That's all we really know. We don't know if it's common or rare. I know not everyone is breaking them. Then we don't know about the rarity of sliders breaking or wearing out to properly compare the risk either.



    It's still very thin.



    According to my friends at Apple, it's very fare for one to break. If it weren't, you know we would be hearing about in the tech press, and read about the complaints on Apple's forums, as well as a bunch here.



    Everything can break, even a solid block of stainless steel, that doesn't mean it's common.



    You remember all the comments about scratching. Since the glass layer on both the iPhone and iTouch, we've heard virtually nothing bad about the screens surfaces. That means it's rare enough so that the hysterics who love to make a fuss about such things can't get enough reports to do so.



    I'd say that makes the screens very rugged.
  • Reply 260 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't see that problem. There is no text available in portrait mode either. I don't understand how you find a difference there. Even if the last line could be seen, that offers no help. The portrait mode gives a bigger keyboard, which is why so many people want them, so your statement about it being more spread out seems to be something only a small number of people might not like.



    Landscape gives a bigger keyboard, using more of the display real estate. Add in the row above the keyboard for tabbing to fields and it even worse. My two issues are: 1) I get more text area to type in with portrait mode; and 2) I find thumb typing in portrait mode considerably faster than in landscape mode.



    To each their own, now wait for the 3rd-aprty accessory makers to offer a physical keyboard option.











    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You remember all the comments about scratching. Since the glass layer on both the iPhone and iTouch, we've heard virtually nothing bad about the screens surfaces. That means it's rare enough so that the hysterics who love to make a fuss about such things can't get enough reports to do so.



    Remember the outcry when Apple made the decision late in the game?
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