Review roundup: Palm's Pre and its fledgeling WebOS

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  • Reply 261 of 275
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's still very thin.



    According to my friends at Apple, it's very fare for one to break. If it weren't, you know we would be hearing about in the tech press, and read about the complaints on Apple's forums, as well as a bunch here.



    Is there a bigger outcry in the tech press and various forums about the slider format?
  • Reply 262 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Hot off the presses. First Palm Pre teardown photos. Estimated price of hardware is $170.
  • Reply 263 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Landscape gives a bigger keyboard, using more of the display real estate. Add in the row above the keyboard for tabbing to fields and it even worse. My two issues are: 1) I get more text area to type in with portrait mode; and 2) I find thumb typing in portrait mode considerably faster than in landscape mode.



    To each their own, now wait for the 3rd-aprty accessory makers to offer a physical keyboard option.







    That doesn't show any more area. The area is about the same. One has more horizontally, and one has more vertically. Neither shows much. No advantage to either mode.



    But the horiz. keyboard is much easier to use for most people, including me.



    Quote:

    Remember the outcry when Apple made the decision late in the game?



    You'll have to be more specific. Outcry about what? Having problems with scratches? Outcry about moving to a glass layer?
  • Reply 264 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Is there a bigger outcry in the tech press and various forums about the slider format?



    Well, we do keep hearing about how flimsy they all feel. We do hear about problems with overhanging "lips" from the body of the phones. Now we hear about the problems with the Pre keyboard in the reviews.
  • Reply 265 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That doesn't show any more area. The area is about the same. One has more horizontally, and one has more vertically. Neither shows much. No advantage to either mode.



    But the horiz. keyboard is much easier to use fr most people, including me.



    Add the numbers, the portrait keyboard uses less space than the landscape keyboard giving me more visual text space to type my responses. Sometimes the need to scrolling left of right is a pain, but that isn?t an issue while typing, just for proof reading, which is easily solved by removing the keyboard and then reading in landscape. I find the additional room and keyboard setup much better for typing. Obviously we have different needs and feeling on this, but at least it?s virtual so we can both get the type we find most useful, well, when v3.0 comes out you will.





    Quote:

    ou'll have to be more specific. Outcry about what? Having problems with scratches? Outcry about moving to a glass layer?



    Outcry about moving to a glass screen at the last minute.
  • Reply 266 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Add the numbers, the portrait keyboard uses less space than the landscape keyboard giving me more visual text space to type my responses. Sometimes the need to scrolling left of right is a pain, but that isn’t an issue while typing, just for proof reading, which is easily solved by removing the keyboard and then reading in landscape. I find the additional room and keyboard setup much better for typing. Obviously we have different needs and feeling on this, but at least it’s virtual so we can both get the type we find most useful, well, when v3.0 comes out you will.



    Well, as I said, the advantage of virtual screems is that they can be whatever you like. Think about the problems of bringing a "real" keyboard to Japan, China, Russia, Greece, Indonesia, etc.



    Everyone needs a different keyboard, AND different software. If you take your phone to a different country, or simply need a different keyboard for a different language, you can't have it.



    Quote:

    Outcry about moving to a glass screen at the last minute.



    I don't remember anything like that. What do you mean? The iPhone was announced as having solved the scratching problem with the glass overlay—from the very beginning.



    I don't remember anything but cheering for that and for the new iTouch.
  • Reply 267 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Hot off the presses. First Palm Pre teardown photos. Estimated price of hardware is $170.



    So the HW in the original iPhone was estimated to cost $228 and the iPhone 3G $175. Considering that many of the more expensive parts of the iPhone are the same as the Pre, I am looking forward to the HW and retail cost comparisons.*





    * Costs are calculated based soley on HW at time of launch. They are estimations, at best.
  • Reply 268 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    So the HW in the original iPhone was estimated to cost $228 and the iPhone 3G $175. Considering that many of the more expensive parts of the iPhone are the same as the Pre, I am looking forward to the HW and retail cost comparisons.*





    * Costs are calculated based soley on HW at time of launch. They are estimations, at best.



    I would imagine that prices for some major parts would have come down in the interval.



    Also, the screen is much smaller. I wonder if the price is lower as well. But the digitizer is part of it. If you have to replace the screen, it might cost a lot more. I wonder if the iPhones' digitizer is also permanently connected?



    Also, I haven't heard one way or the other if the screen has a glass covering for scratch protection. My Treo badly needed screen protectors, as the stylus would scratch it easily. The Pre screen also has no protective rim projecting from the edges to protect it if put down on its face. This uses fingers, but still, if it's thrown in a pocket...
  • Reply 269 of 275
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    So it would appear that:



    --Palm is being an anticompetitive jackass for selling their phone locked to a single carrier, and



    --Palm is a greedy pig for selling it for $200, with "rebate", and heavily subsidized by the carrier, even though it only costs them $170 to make, OMG, obscene profit margins, LOL, and



    --Sprint is being a money grubbing monster for only selling the Pre with a mandatory data plan, much like Hitler, and



    --Palm is deliberately withholding obvious and trivial technology that my sock drawer has had for the last 50 years, such as video recording, visual voicemail, flash, and decent camera (only 3MP? LOL!) just so they can sell us a new phone later, on account of the greediness, and



    --The Pre is useless because it has absolutely horrible battery life compared to the free LG phone I got a few years ago, so good luck Pretards when your precious multitasking leaves you with a worthless lump of plastic just when it could have saved your life, and



    -- Palm is full of shit for trying to pass off "web apps" as real apps which my Nokia here has had since the late 1800s, and



    --Everybody who buys a Pre is a mindless robot who has been programmed by hype and marketing, LOL.



    I think that about covers it.
  • Reply 270 of 275
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    So it would appear that:



    --Palm is being an anticompetitive jackass for selling their phone locked to a single carrier, and



    --Palm is a greedy pig for selling it for $200, with "rebate", and heavily subsidized by the carrier, even though it only costs them $170 to make, OMG, obscene profit margins, LOL, and



    --Sprint is being a money grubbing monster for only selling the Pre with a mandatory data plan, much like Hitler, and



    --Palm is deliberately withholding obvious and trivial technology that my sock drawer has had for the last 50 years, such as video recording, visual voicemail, flash, and decent camera (only 3MP? LOL!) just so they can sell us a new phone later, on account of the greediness, and



    --The Pre is useless because it has absolutely horrible battery life compared to the free LG phone I got a few years ago, so good luck Pretards when your precious multitasking leaves you with a worthless lump of plastic just when it could have saved your life, and



    -- Palm is full of shit for trying to pass off "web apps" as real apps which my Nokia here has had since the late 1800s, and



    --Everybody who buys a Pre is a mindless robot who has been programmed by hype and marketing, LOL.



    I think that about covers it.



    I just gave myself a coughing fit laughing too hard. Great post!
  • Reply 271 of 275
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,422member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Yikes! There were only 11 people at Sprint flagship store in Manhattan waiting for the Pre (though that could be the queue for returning the device ). I would have thought that store would have drawn a larger crowd.



    That's a hoot not allsprint have ore mine in eastern it doesn't

    But I wonder if you can return to any sprint store

    Also the CEO sprint and palm got their wish

    NO LINES
  • Reply 272 of 275
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    So it would appear that:



    --Palm is being an anticompetitive jackass for selling their phone locked to a single carrier, and



    --Palm is a greedy pig for selling it for $200, with "rebate", and heavily subsidized by the carrier, even though it only costs them $170 to make, OMG, obscene profit margins, LOL, and



    --Sprint is being a money grubbing monster for only selling the Pre with a mandatory data plan, much like Hitler, and



    --Palm is deliberately withholding obvious and trivial technology that my sock drawer has had for the last 50 years, such as video recording, visual voicemail, flash, and decent camera (only 3MP? LOL!) just so they can sell us a new phone later, on account of the greediness, and



    --The Pre is useless because it has absolutely horrible battery life compared to the free LG phone I got a few years ago, so good luck Pretards when your precious multitasking leaves you with a worthless lump of plastic just when it could have saved your life, and



    -- Palm is full of shit for trying to pass off "web apps" as real apps which my Nokia here has had since the late 1800s, and



    --Everybody who buys a Pre is a mindless robot who has been programmed by hype and marketing, LOL.



    I think that about covers it.



    Sounds like the old iPhone, so I guess it's right.
  • Reply 273 of 275
    sennensennen Posts: 1,470member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    It is a risk, but with a difference. A glass screen may break if dropped at the right angle. A moving part will wear out and will break given time.



    Equating breakage from dropping to breakage from use is disingenuous. Drop your Pre and I daresay it will be as prone to breaking it's "glass" screen as an iPhone.



    Fwiw, I have had keys wear out on panasonic and nokia phones, and sms-junkie friends make a mess of keypads.
  • Reply 274 of 275
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Has no one here every heard of an extended battery?



    I love Apple as much as the next guy but sometimes the tunnel-vision creates some weird discussions.



    People have already doubled the battery time by turning off IM and changing email push time. Clearly some bug fixes will help here. Loads of phones out there with swappable batteries have extended batteries available that often double the rated call and standby times.



    I'm also sure that the next iPhone update will be very helpful and appears to build on strengths of storage and likely will add some good camera/video capabilities.



    The real problem for Apple is that many competitors do not hold to the "I'm going to update my software and hardware once a year" philosophy and because of that are quickly making up ground. The Storm2 will be released soon and the first one was released in late November. RIM has all manner of phones on all manner of networks. Palm has legacy OS, WinMo and WebOS phones in a variety of form factors and again, across a number of networks.



    For many of these companies, the releases are coming fast and furious and the shortcomings are being addressed in months, not years.



    So as an example the Pre might not have much in the store on day one and guess what, they might not even have their SDK available either to help build the needed apps.



    The reality is that they will get it out in a month or two at most versus Apple taking a year.



    The argument about the Pre being exclusive to Sprint centers on whether it will encompass this Christmas or not, in other words six versus seven to eight months. Apple is still with AT&T for the next year and possibly beyond that as well.



    No solution is yet perfect and everyone is asking for trade-offs in one form or another. The problem for Apple at this point is that people can pick and choose between more trade-offs with other competitors and addressing and enhancing those trade-offs is being done in months.



    Apple needs to create more choices and they need to start doing it on a timeline that involves months, not years.
  • Reply 275 of 275
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wnurse View Post


    Let me answer this one at a time



    1. No, MS shareholders will not get tired because windows and word are huge money makers and microsoft can always recoup cost via those two apps.. also, ms is not losing money.. they don't build phones, only the software..

    2. The pre will get people.. more people that the treo gets and palm is still in business after selling the treo (which as you know sucks).. i have a treo and will be updating to the pre.. a lot of people have treo's.. my wife does not have a treo and she will get a pre.. palm will do fine with this product..

    3. When the iphone came out, it too did not have apps.. what's your point?. The pre will eventually have apps. Obviously, people bought the iphone even though there were no apps initially.. you wanna know why CAUSE THEY WERE BUYING A PHONE!!. Yes, it's truly amazing that people in this day and age forget that most people buy a phone to make a call.. the apps are extra. I've never bought a phone for the apps (heck, i don't even know what apps are available for the iphone). only geeks buy a phone for the apps.. most people buy a phone cause it's either 1. cool, 2. easy to use or 3. their friends rave about their phone and then they want one too. My niece just got an iphone as a graduation gift.. not once did she inquire about what apps is available.. she could care less.. i am sure she cares once she gets the phone but that was not a consideration for her wanting an iphone.. she wanted one cause it was cool.

    4. Apple disable syncing?.. what are you talking about?.. did apple previously enable syncing to a palm pre?.. when did that happen?.

    5. I want a palm pre cause i am on sprint and it's plans are cheaper than AT&T also cause i don't like the iphone. It's a big phone.. even my old beat up sucky treo is smaller than an iphone. (although the iphone is thinner). Also, i've played around with an iphone.. i prefer a physical keyboard.. one thing i think palm should do is give option of software keyboard. I hope they rectify that and upgrade the phone to have a software keyboard.. not everyone wants a physical keyboard. I heard though that palm will come out with other versions of the pre and one of the versions will not have a physical keyboard.. i hope that is true.. they need to provide options.



    I have to admit to post stalking you a bit here, but mainly because I am surprised by how consistently wrong someone can be. Lets looks at your 5 points.

    1) You appear to have missed the meaning of loss leaders and why shareholders might get tired of them. If these tangental adventures are losing money and MS needs to 'recoup' these loses with their cash cows, then unless these tangents help grow the cash cows, they are detrimental to the overall performance. i.e. they are money losers by definition and some shareholders are not fond of those.

    2) Lots of people have/had Treos. How many have used them in the last 2-3 years. Not many. A few co-workers had them years ago. Not one still uses them. They decisively lost the war to WinMo years ago. Palm will and should do fine with this product. As a niche product, just as Apple did for years with their Macs. I hope Palm is not counting on the pre being a major player. One product doing fine != company rebound.

    3) People buy phones to make calls. People buy smartphones for the other functions that they can perform. It is ironic that you of all people make this argument, given your vehement hysterics about how the iPhone was inferior because it couldn't do cut and paste...a core phone feature, I am sure.

    4) This can't be a serious response. Pre?s Mass Storage interface identifies it as an iPod. The USB root node identifies itself as a pre. It will be trivial for Apple to prevent the pre sync with iTunes. Palm is using a hack that can be easily shut down. You said you were a hotshot developer for a major software company, this should have been obvious to you. (is working as a contract IT Specialist with IBM considered a dev position now? Is IBM still considered a software company anymore?) No, Apple did not enable this. This does not preclude them from disabling it.

    5)You have a point. Smaller can be better. I personally prefer the size of the iPhone screen and feel it is about as small as a smart phone screen can be and still be usable. The pre's screen might be a little small to try cramming a usable soft keyboard on there.
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