Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.
True, if you never use them, they're worthless, but rollover allows you to deal with fluctuations. One month you can use way more, and another, less, without getting stuck with extra minute charges.
When I'm traveling, on vacation with extended family, or when there is a major event like a wedding, I use way more minutes than when I and everyone else is just at home.
Nokia's average selling price (ASP) for all 93m phones it sold last quarter was 65 euros or US$91. And that averages in 8m high-priced ($600-800) N-series (and less expensive E-series) phones. Anyway, this might be the low-end extreme.
LG's ASP for all 22.6m phones it sold last quarter was US$123. Sony Ericsson's ASP for all 14.5m phones it sold last quarter was 121 euros or US$169. Most of LG's and SE's phones don't require data plans, but they are not always free with contract. So this might be at the higher-end. (Note that at these selling prices, LG made money, but SE lost 460m euros or US$643m over the last two quarters.)
Palm's ASP for the 482k smartphones it sold last quarter was US$161. And they lost money as well.
Conclusion: Most phones coupled with voice-only plans are very, very cheap to make (or are losing very, very much money for their companies.)
For comparison, I believe Apple said its ASP for iPhone was around $600 (8GB and 16GB). (I will try to find the link.)
You do make a good argument,but I wouldn?t call them worthless. I like the security of knowing that unused minutes aren?t necessarily disappearing each month, which allows me to get a cheaper plan knowing that if I do start using more minutes with get me close to my in-plan allowance, or even past it, that I won?t be charged additional per-minute pricing until the minute bank is used. So, I agree that people do buy more minutes than they use, but that rollover allows you the peace of mind of not having to purchase an even larger amount per month, thereby reducing the pre-minute cost.
Sure, if you've bought a plan which provides you with close to the number of minutes you use on average. The study suggests that people tend to buy plans with more minutes than they use on average.
And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.
If you rant about it like you expect Apple to deliver what you want, or that Apple must deliver what you want, then you're just ranting. There's zero probability of it happening. (Just like those who've been saying for years now that Apple must deliver a mid-priced Mac tower.)
No, you didn't exactly say no one,"had no right to express your opinion?". However, your statement,"If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.) " seems meant to end any further discussion. I guess I should have been more clear.
Were did I rant? I thought I was fairly strainght forward and used no ad hominem attacks. Maybe you misconstured my use of multi-quote and seemingly long post as a rant, but I have limited time to visit web sites and have begun to liberally use multi-quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot
Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.
Anybody know what that is?
I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.
Sorry, didn't notice your location. Hope, UK law or Carrier Policies, work in your favor allowing transfer to another carrier not requiring a data plan. I've heard, right or wrong, that in general, Europe and many other countries are way ahead of the US in cell phone policy.
The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought. The conclusion of the study is that most people buy a lot more minutes than they use. I suspect this is why the providers like to offer rollover plans. Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.
I wouldn't go as far as calling roll over completely worthless. For most carriers if you don't use all of your minutes they go away for ever and the money you have spent on those unused minutes does go wasted. With roll over you have a year to use those unused minutes. Its true that if you never use roll over minutes at all then you are basically in the same situation as the person who does not have that option. I don't think having the option is worthless at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
Sure, if you've bought a plan which provides you with close to the number of minutes you use on average. The study suggests that people tend to buy plans with more minutes than they use on average.
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
I don?t think I expressed the value of rollpver minutes well enough in my previous post.
I have a similar (atypical perhaps) usage pattern. I have thousands of unused minutes but there is a few months a year that use well over my monthly allotment. If I didn?t have this leeway feature I?d probably just opt for a plan that gave more monthly minutes at a higher rate to make sure I had the peace of mind of not going over. That would surely make my per-minute cost considerably higher than it is now.
I know one person that gets unlimited everything just to make sure that he never has to worry about it a surprisingly high bill, even though the result in an unsurprisingly high phone bill that may be more than a metered plan over a year?s time.
Were did I rant? I thought I was fairly strainght forward and used no ad hominem attacks. Maybe you misconstured my use of multi-quote and seemingly long post as a rant, but I have limited time to visit web sites and have begun to liberally use multi-quote.
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you when I used the word "rant." That was meant for some other people who keep repeating the same thing over and over on these AI forums; I'm sure you've already figured out who they are. It's my policy never to respond directly to them when they do so; it's not worth the effort.
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
Depending on the usage, it can be very worthwhile. It would have been nice for my parents if they had it a few months ago when planning my grandmother's funeral and family gatherings. Ten months out of a typical year, they don't go over, but they did that month and one other unusual month. The extra cost of going over wasn't too bad though.
Unless you subscribe or a client of their stock reporting services, you have no right to be so indignant.
Actually, anybody with any Apple Stock should be indignant towards this rather inept "ANALyst". Subscriber or not...if stock prices dipped because of her inaccurate predictions should have hunted her down and strung her up.
OTOH..if anybody still listens to her, they deserve to lose because they're morons. Like Col. Klink in Hogans Heroes...whatever she says, do the opposite and you're guaranteed to win. She may understand other sectors but is woefully out of her league where Apple technology and profits are concerned.
On the BS iPhone comments...if you read it...she "polled" consumers who are also out of their element like Donny in The Big Lebowski...
If Apple did a price drop on a low end iPhone....that would cannibalize sales on the upper end. IDIOTIC. Apple has ALWAYS with VERY rare exception...just put the bigger badder devices in the existing price points. If they want to minimize the cannibalization, they neuter the low end device like disabling video capture, lowering the megapixel of the cam or some other feature to guide the masses to the middle or high end models.
Anybody who has ACTUALLY studied Apple for more than 10 minutes know their tendencies...obviously, Puberty only parrots what the masses think. None of it is wrapped in reality very tight.
Actually, anybody with any Apple Stock should be indignant towards this rather inept "ANALyst". Subscriber or not...if stock prices dipped because of her inaccurate predictions should have hunted her down and strung her up.
Yawn. I get tired of this kind of indignation. How, exactly would this hurt an average Apple investor? If it is a bad report, it may depress the stock price for a bit, but things will even out as the true situation becomes apparent. Unless you need to sell some stock right after the report to make your mortgage payment or something urgent, then they only way it hurts is if you panic yourself and sell low.
If you are investing money that you need urgently in the short term, then you are a fool.
If you yourself panic and sell low, well, that's your own fault.
If you have this urge to string people up often, by all means seek help!
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
That's a huge "if." The study suggests that people are buying much larger plans than they really need. I very strongly suspect that the reason the providers offer these rollover plans is because they know that few get any benefit from them, and those who do, get only a small occasional benefit. Any feature that looks better in concept than it really is, is a good deal for the providers.
Anyway, the main point I was making here is that flat rate is not necessarily cheaper than pay-as-you-go. It's only a good deal if you use your phone a lot, and use it a lot consistently. From the way these discussions tend to go, it seems to me that many don't get the concept of people who'd really like to have the features of an advanced phone, even if they don't spend hours on it every month.
Unless you subscribe or a client of their stock reporting services, you have no right to be so indignant. Only their bosses or more important, investors that made buying/selling/holding-off positions re their stock portfolio are so-entitled.
Analysts are monitored continuously. Accuracy is paramount. An analyst's career is predicated on how well he/she performs. Brokers and those that delve in the stock market use analysts' reports as a guidance in their recommendations to their clients or for making purchase decisions respectively. Obviously, if your analyst/broker errs on their recommendation and more importantly causes you to lose monies, you go elsewhere.
Note that analysts are not reviewers. You go to someone else to get those 'lies'.
I'm not that old, but poor grammar, IM abbreviations, and typos are seen way too often in the workplace. It's most likely all due to instant messaging and texting. People are talking in acronyms. wtf?
here, here... I'm 34, that may make me either really old or really young to some, but i'm getting a bit tired of people that are too freakin' lazy to complete words (words!!!). Abbreviations are nice when they are recognized by an English Dictionary. Please people, are we that terrible at typing or just too faux-ADD (that's Attention Deficit Disorder) to spell out entire words?
oh, yeah...go Apple! love the products!
Cheaper iPhone - Yeah! Free Upgrade to existing iPhone users? When has the term "upgrade" ever been free other than rental cars? Certainly not from a cellular phone company.
I'm thinking it's the initial price plus the cost of the data plan that scares most people away. If you were to drop the phone down to $99 and the data plan plus 200 SMS messages to $59 total, then they would get FAR more sales. It's really the data plan that kills most people.
I completely agree with this. I can't think of anyone that's said, "oh, i'd totally by an iphone if it were 50 bucks!" who cares about the upfront costs...that may get more first timers to buy one, but they'll soon realize after the first couple bill as to how much of a rip-off it is.
to reply to some other posts about just buying an iPod Touch? well, think about every time you step out of the house and have to look for a WiFi just to check your email on the go. Or, if you need directions and you're someplace where only cell towers are available? Believe me, i went back and forth on this issue and then decided on the iphone. Despite the monthly fees all the functions that work only with a cellular connections out-weight the WiFi only. Plus, I've used AT&T's "free" WiFi service. I live in a small business center in St. Louis where they have a free WiFi network downtown. I never log on because for one you only get a certain number of free minutes and secondly everyone in the city is on it and it's slower than EDGE.
It just gives people a choice. Not everyone wants a data plan- some just want aphone/iPod. it's just an added choice- increases penetration.
I'm sorry but i don't at all agree with your logic. If people really wanted just a phone with built-in iPod they would have all bought the Motorola "candy-bar-style" phone 4 years ago that had iTunes built-in. Does the "ROKR-with iTunes" ring a bell?
And only then wouldn't they have just integrated cellular technology into the iPod Nano 3-4 years ago. Actually that doesn't sound too bad for a back-up phone. But i love apps too much and i'm addicted to all the other features available on the iPhone to go back to those stone ages.
I don't think having just a phone that was also an iPod is what people want. Perhaps a few but see the above statement. I think Apple/Motorola's effort tried and failed. Now, that could have been back marketing on Motorola's part for lack of vision but who knows. Maybe it was just too early.
It seems quite logical. The iPhone, like the Palm Pre, require a data plan because the subsidized cost of the handset is much higher than other phones. For AT&T or Sprint to not require a $30/month unlimited plan for said devices would mean a higher initial cost. AT&T doesn't sell the phone contract-free but other countries do, and the price is much greater than the $200 subsidation of typical higher-end phones without data plans. There is some evidence that the unsibsudized Palm Pre is $850, yet it's still locked to Sprint and would presumably still require the $70/month minimum plan unless you can trick Sprint by switching SIM cards from a phone with a SERO plan.
I can't find the specific blog but i believe AppleInsider has posted what unlocked (unsubsidized) iphones are going for over in Europe. It's crazy to think people would consider paying upwards of $750 for an iPhone. And, i can't believe that apple would price a product that is roughly 1/2 the functionality of their MacBook at about 2/3's the cost. sounds like just trying to milk it early on for R&D and future funding of the project to me. classic technology marketing.
The push and pull demands for distribution is always dependent upon control of any expansion. Apple will have to address expansion at some point if they want to sell to the masses - or a notch below where they sit now. Obviously, anyone who wants a smart phone in a year or two will be able to get one for much less than they are selling for now. At this time, competition is not pushing the absolute need to do so. However, If the product line is ready to expand to other markets (lower price = expanded distribution) the ATT contract (and other exclusives) will not meet the demand potential of that lower priced expansion. This is why exclusives always collapse with expanded product lines in consumer electronics. Brand, price, economy of scale and life cycle of a product or category all are important factors in recognizing the need or opportunity to expand distribution in order to expand sales.
My take is that the ipod example will serve apple well in the near future if not this year. They will expand their phone line to meet price points where more business can be achieved. it is the dogma of consumer electronics in general.. reduced price comes with factors mentioned above and others in the marketing mix. i expect a less expensive phone to hit the streets soon. It will take the wind out of competition is the primary reason for doing it. It protects what "IS" and it takes what as of today "isn't" Apple can be two years ahead of some who haven't even thought about a low priced smart phone yet. Apple has economy of scale in purchasing large quantities of everything. Only the big will be able to compete with for major sales numbers of a phone category like smart phones. This will push Rimm, Palm and others back where they belong in the race and keep apple out front.. To do this they will have to eventually open some (low priced smart phone) if not all products up to more customers. The idea that ATT will be a lone distributor.. when expansion of distribution (best buy for example) is already in place is a reason to stay where they are for now. However, the services of VZ are so strong in some markets that Apple will not be able to ignore that sales opportunity for far into the future. I want them to do it now - as expansion specifically to one more network will be far more productive than destructive at this stage of an open ended product cycle. Where would mercedes be if you could only buy a 500 series 6.3 for $120,000 is a simple example. The phone (car) business is enormous. But, VZ for example, i understand will not be ready with format computability until 2011. that will be just fine too - if not a little late for an ideal expansion to another network of service providers in the USA.
I understand that people are way too used to buying a new phone or iPod or any other techy gadget one a year or once every two years. But why not make a device, like the iPhone that can be updated with new software, save our landfills and just make people pay for update, much like...oh...i don't know...a COMPUTER! Oh, wait, the iPhone already does that!!! i think this is the biggest new discovery of the iPhone to date and I found it!!! why on earth do you need to buy a new cellular phone every year or every two years? this is absolute insanity! i'm assuming you'd shell out $1000 bucks every year for a new computer if you could. wait...i'm on a tech blog, let's make that $3000 every year for a new machine? That's sad that you said yes...
I think that if this current depression (yes...get over it, it's a depression no matter what other word you use) is that companies of all kinds need to figure out how to save money and up-front costs by making products that last...the technology market is going to suffer the same fate as GM and Chrysler for adopting a model like trading in every year. Let's try the Honda approach and offer new products that can potentially last you 10 years instead of 2...
I bought the iPhone 3g after my very first cellular phone, which was purchased in 2003, and i plan on NOT buying another iPhone unless it's given as a free upgrade, they reduce the data plan on future models or i can no longer make use of the firmware updates. Much like a computer. Some i'm hoping for at least 4-5 years form this.
You might, but the majority does want a subsidized phones. Apple sold in 6 months of subsidized iPhone 3G what they have sold in a whole year before subsidizing.
I do remember SJ saying that the iPhone will switch to Wifi when in range "to save" money or something like that. I think they figured a $20 for a mandatory data plan is not a big deal at that time since the original iPhone had no competition then.
I do agree that the $30 data plan, even though cheaper than the optional $35 one, is still high for those who don't need unlimited access. The problem is that everyone now is doing it and it doesn't seem like it is going away completely (maybe lower price in the future).
If initial cost is not problem for you, you can buy a brand new officially unlocked, without a contract, and unsubsidized iPhone from ebay for $750 include shipping to the US. If every phone manufacturer tried to meet the requirement and desires of every single buyer then we would have 2 billion phone models.
at last count, i think we have 2 billion and 42 cellular phone models. Sometimes standarization is a good thing.
Comments
Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.
True, if you never use them, they're worthless, but rollover allows you to deal with fluctuations. One month you can use way more, and another, less, without getting stuck with extra minute charges.
When I'm traveling, on vacation with extended family, or when there is a major event like a wedding, I use way more minutes than when I and everyone else is just at home.
LG's ASP for all 22.6m phones it sold last quarter was US$123. Sony Ericsson's ASP for all 14.5m phones it sold last quarter was 121 euros or US$169. Most of LG's and SE's phones don't require data plans, but they are not always free with contract. So this might be at the higher-end. (Note that at these selling prices, LG made money, but SE lost 460m euros or US$643m over the last two quarters.)
Palm's ASP for the 482k smartphones it sold last quarter was US$161. And they lost money as well.
Conclusion: Most phones coupled with voice-only plans are very, very cheap to make (or are losing very, very much money for their companies.)
For comparison, I believe Apple said its ASP for iPhone was around $600 (8GB and 16GB). (I will try to find the link.)
You do make a good argument,but I wouldn?t call them worthless. I like the security of knowing that unused minutes aren?t necessarily disappearing each month, which allows me to get a cheaper plan knowing that if I do start using more minutes with get me close to my in-plan allowance, or even past it, that I won?t be charged additional per-minute pricing until the minute bank is used. So, I agree that people do buy more minutes than they use, but that rollover allows you the peace of mind of not having to purchase an even larger amount per month, thereby reducing the pre-minute cost.
Sure, if you've bought a plan which provides you with close to the number of minutes you use on average. The study suggests that people tend to buy plans with more minutes than they use on average.
And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.
If you rant about it like you expect Apple to deliver what you want, or that Apple must deliver what you want, then you're just ranting. There's zero probability of it happening. (Just like those who've been saying for years now that Apple must deliver a mid-priced Mac tower.)
No, you didn't exactly say no one,"had no right to express your opinion?". However, your statement,"If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.) " seems meant to end any further discussion. I guess I should have been more clear.
Were did I rant? I thought I was fairly strainght forward and used no ad hominem attacks. Maybe you misconstured my use of multi-quote and seemingly long post as a rant, but I have limited time to visit web sites and have begun to liberally use multi-quote.
Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.
Anybody know what that is?
I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.
Sorry, didn't notice your location. Hope, UK law or Carrier Policies, work in your favor allowing transfer to another carrier not requiring a data plan. I've heard, right or wrong, that in general, Europe and many other countries are way ahead of the US in cell phone policy.
The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought. The conclusion of the study is that most people buy a lot more minutes than they use. I suspect this is why the providers like to offer rollover plans. Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.
I wouldn't go as far as calling roll over completely worthless. For most carriers if you don't use all of your minutes they go away for ever and the money you have spent on those unused minutes does go wasted. With roll over you have a year to use those unused minutes. Its true that if you never use roll over minutes at all then you are basically in the same situation as the person who does not have that option. I don't think having the option is worthless at all.
Sure, if you've bought a plan which provides you with close to the number of minutes you use on average. The study suggests that people tend to buy plans with more minutes than they use on average.
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
I don?t think I expressed the value of rollpver minutes well enough in my previous post.
I have a similar (atypical perhaps) usage pattern. I have thousands of unused minutes but there is a few months a year that use well over my monthly allotment. If I didn?t have this leeway feature I?d probably just opt for a plan that gave more monthly minutes at a higher rate to make sure I had the peace of mind of not going over. That would surely make my per-minute cost considerably higher than it is now.
I know one person that gets unlimited everything just to make sure that he never has to worry about it a surprisingly high bill, even though the result in an unsurprisingly high phone bill that may be more than a metered plan over a year?s time.
Were did I rant? I thought I was fairly strainght forward and used no ad hominem attacks. Maybe you misconstured my use of multi-quote and seemingly long post as a rant, but I have limited time to visit web sites and have begun to liberally use multi-quote.
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you when I used the word "rant." That was meant for some other people who keep repeating the same thing over and over on these AI forums; I'm sure you've already figured out who they are. It's my policy never to respond directly to them when they do so; it's not worth the effort.
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
Depending on the usage, it can be very worthwhile. It would have been nice for my parents if they had it a few months ago when planning my grandmother's funeral and family gatherings. Ten months out of a typical year, they don't go over, but they did that month and one other unusual month. The extra cost of going over wasn't too bad though.
Unless you subscribe or a client of their stock reporting services, you have no right to be so indignant.
Actually, anybody with any Apple Stock should be indignant towards this rather inept "ANALyst". Subscriber or not...if stock prices dipped because of her inaccurate predictions should have hunted her down and strung her up.
OTOH..if anybody still listens to her, they deserve to lose because they're morons. Like Col. Klink in Hogans Heroes...whatever she says, do the opposite and you're guaranteed to win. She may understand other sectors but is woefully out of her league where Apple technology and profits are concerned.
On the BS iPhone comments...if you read it...she "polled" consumers who are also out of their element like Donny in The Big Lebowski...
If Apple did a price drop on a low end iPhone....that would cannibalize sales on the upper end. IDIOTIC. Apple has ALWAYS with VERY rare exception...just put the bigger badder devices in the existing price points. If they want to minimize the cannibalization, they neuter the low end device like disabling video capture, lowering the megapixel of the cam or some other feature to guide the masses to the middle or high end models.
Anybody who has ACTUALLY studied Apple for more than 10 minutes know their tendencies...obviously, Puberty only parrots what the masses think. None of it is wrapped in reality very tight.
Actually, anybody with any Apple Stock should be indignant towards this rather inept "ANALyst". Subscriber or not...if stock prices dipped because of her inaccurate predictions should have hunted her down and strung her up.
Yawn. I get tired of this kind of indignation. How, exactly would this hurt an average Apple investor? If it is a bad report, it may depress the stock price for a bit, but things will even out as the true situation becomes apparent. Unless you need to sell some stock right after the report to make your mortgage payment or something urgent, then they only way it hurts is if you panic yourself and sell low.
If you are investing money that you need urgently in the short term, then you are a fool.
If you yourself panic and sell low, well, that's your own fault.
If you have this urge to string people up often, by all means seek help!
If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
That's a huge "if." The study suggests that people are buying much larger plans than they really need. I very strongly suspect that the reason the providers offer these rollover plans is because they know that few get any benefit from them, and those who do, get only a small occasional benefit. Any feature that looks better in concept than it really is, is a good deal for the providers.
Anyway, the main point I was making here is that flat rate is not necessarily cheaper than pay-as-you-go. It's only a good deal if you use your phone a lot, and use it a lot consistently. From the way these discussions tend to go, it seems to me that many don't get the concept of people who'd really like to have the features of an advanced phone, even if they don't spend hours on it every month.
Unless you subscribe or a client of their stock reporting services, you have no right to be so indignant. Only their bosses or more important, investors that made buying/selling/holding-off positions re their stock portfolio are so-entitled.
Analysts are monitored continuously. Accuracy is paramount. An analyst's career is predicated on how well he/she performs. Brokers and those that delve in the stock market use analysts' reports as a guidance in their recommendations to their clients or for making purchase decisions respectively. Obviously, if your analyst/broker errs on their recommendation and more importantly causes you to lose monies, you go elsewhere.
Note that analysts are not reviewers. You go to someone else to get those 'lies'.
Analyzing Analyst Recommendations. http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/analysts.htm
Maybe that's why our economy is in the toilet right now. Because all these elite-type-folk are trusting these idiotic analysts...
I'm not that old, but poor grammar, IM abbreviations, and typos are seen way too often in the workplace. It's most likely all due to instant messaging and texting. People are talking in acronyms. wtf?
here, here... I'm 34, that may make me either really old or really young to some, but i'm getting a bit tired of people that are too freakin' lazy to complete words (words!!!). Abbreviations are nice when they are recognized by an English Dictionary. Please people, are we that terrible at typing or just too faux-ADD (that's Attention Deficit Disorder) to spell out entire words?
oh, yeah...go Apple! love the products!
Cheaper iPhone - Yeah! Free Upgrade to existing iPhone users? When has the term "upgrade" ever been free other than rental cars? Certainly not from a cellular phone company.
I'm thinking it's the initial price plus the cost of the data plan that scares most people away. If you were to drop the phone down to $99 and the data plan plus 200 SMS messages to $59 total, then they would get FAR more sales. It's really the data plan that kills most people.
I completely agree with this. I can't think of anyone that's said, "oh, i'd totally by an iphone if it were 50 bucks!" who cares about the upfront costs...that may get more first timers to buy one, but they'll soon realize after the first couple bill as to how much of a rip-off it is.
to reply to some other posts about just buying an iPod Touch? well, think about every time you step out of the house and have to look for a WiFi just to check your email on the go. Or, if you need directions and you're someplace where only cell towers are available? Believe me, i went back and forth on this issue and then decided on the iphone. Despite the monthly fees all the functions that work only with a cellular connections out-weight the WiFi only. Plus, I've used AT&T's "free" WiFi service. I live in a small business center in St. Louis where they have a free WiFi network downtown. I never log on because for one you only get a certain number of free minutes and secondly everyone in the city is on it and it's slower than EDGE.
just my 5 cents
It just gives people a choice. Not everyone wants a data plan- some just want aphone/iPod. it's just an added choice- increases penetration.
I'm sorry but i don't at all agree with your logic. If people really wanted just a phone with built-in iPod they would have all bought the Motorola "candy-bar-style" phone 4 years ago that had iTunes built-in. Does the "ROKR-with iTunes" ring a bell?
And only then wouldn't they have just integrated cellular technology into the iPod Nano 3-4 years ago. Actually that doesn't sound too bad for a back-up phone. But i love apps too much and i'm addicted to all the other features available on the iPhone to go back to those stone ages.
I don't think having just a phone that was also an iPod is what people want. Perhaps a few but see the above statement. I think Apple/Motorola's effort tried and failed. Now, that could have been back marketing on Motorola's part for lack of vision but who knows. Maybe it was just too early.
It seems quite logical. The iPhone, like the Palm Pre, require a data plan because the subsidized cost of the handset is much higher than other phones. For AT&T or Sprint to not require a $30/month unlimited plan for said devices would mean a higher initial cost. AT&T doesn't sell the phone contract-free but other countries do, and the price is much greater than the $200 subsidation of typical higher-end phones without data plans. There is some evidence that the unsibsudized Palm Pre is $850, yet it's still locked to Sprint and would presumably still require the $70/month minimum plan unless you can trick Sprint by switching SIM cards from a phone with a SERO plan.
I can't find the specific blog but i believe AppleInsider has posted what unlocked (unsubsidized) iphones are going for over in Europe. It's crazy to think people would consider paying upwards of $750 for an iPhone. And, i can't believe that apple would price a product that is roughly 1/2 the functionality of their MacBook at about 2/3's the cost. sounds like just trying to milk it early on for R&D and future funding of the project to me. classic technology marketing.
The push and pull demands for distribution is always dependent upon control of any expansion. Apple will have to address expansion at some point if they want to sell to the masses - or a notch below where they sit now. Obviously, anyone who wants a smart phone in a year or two will be able to get one for much less than they are selling for now. At this time, competition is not pushing the absolute need to do so. However, If the product line is ready to expand to other markets (lower price = expanded distribution) the ATT contract (and other exclusives) will not meet the demand potential of that lower priced expansion. This is why exclusives always collapse with expanded product lines in consumer electronics. Brand, price, economy of scale and life cycle of a product or category all are important factors in recognizing the need or opportunity to expand distribution in order to expand sales.
My take is that the ipod example will serve apple well in the near future if not this year. They will expand their phone line to meet price points where more business can be achieved. it is the dogma of consumer electronics in general.. reduced price comes with factors mentioned above and others in the marketing mix. i expect a less expensive phone to hit the streets soon. It will take the wind out of competition is the primary reason for doing it. It protects what "IS" and it takes what as of today "isn't" Apple can be two years ahead of some who haven't even thought about a low priced smart phone yet. Apple has economy of scale in purchasing large quantities of everything. Only the big will be able to compete with for major sales numbers of a phone category like smart phones. This will push Rimm, Palm and others back where they belong in the race and keep apple out front.. To do this they will have to eventually open some (low priced smart phone) if not all products up to more customers. The idea that ATT will be a lone distributor.. when expansion of distribution (best buy for example) is already in place is a reason to stay where they are for now. However, the services of VZ are so strong in some markets that Apple will not be able to ignore that sales opportunity for far into the future. I want them to do it now - as expansion specifically to one more network will be far more productive than destructive at this stage of an open ended product cycle. Where would mercedes be if you could only buy a 500 series 6.3 for $120,000 is a simple example. The phone (car) business is enormous. But, VZ for example, i understand will not be ready with format computability until 2011. that will be just fine too - if not a little late for an ideal expansion to another network of service providers in the USA.
I understand that people are way too used to buying a new phone or iPod or any other techy gadget one a year or once every two years. But why not make a device, like the iPhone that can be updated with new software, save our landfills and just make people pay for update, much like...oh...i don't know...a COMPUTER! Oh, wait, the iPhone already does that!!! i think this is the biggest new discovery of the iPhone to date and I found it!!! why on earth do you need to buy a new cellular phone every year or every two years? this is absolute insanity! i'm assuming you'd shell out $1000 bucks every year for a new computer if you could. wait...i'm on a tech blog, let's make that $3000 every year for a new machine? That's sad that you said yes...
I think that if this current depression (yes...get over it, it's a depression no matter what other word you use) is that companies of all kinds need to figure out how to save money and up-front costs by making products that last...the technology market is going to suffer the same fate as GM and Chrysler for adopting a model like trading in every year. Let's try the Honda approach and offer new products that can potentially last you 10 years instead of 2...
I bought the iPhone 3g after my very first cellular phone, which was purchased in 2003, and i plan on NOT buying another iPhone unless it's given as a free upgrade, they reduce the data plan on future models or i can no longer make use of the firmware updates. Much like a computer. Some i'm hoping for at least 4-5 years form this.
You might, but the majority does want a subsidized phones. Apple sold in 6 months of subsidized iPhone 3G what they have sold in a whole year before subsidizing.
I do remember SJ saying that the iPhone will switch to Wifi when in range "to save" money or something like that. I think they figured a $20 for a mandatory data plan is not a big deal at that time since the original iPhone had no competition then.
I do agree that the $30 data plan, even though cheaper than the optional $35 one, is still high for those who don't need unlimited access. The problem is that everyone now is doing it and it doesn't seem like it is going away completely (maybe lower price in the future).
If initial cost is not problem for you, you can buy a brand new officially unlocked, without a contract, and unsubsidized iPhone from ebay for $750 include shipping to the US. If every phone manufacturer tried to meet the requirement and desires of every single buyer then we would have 2 billion phone models.
at last count, i think we have 2 billion and 42 cellular phone models. Sometimes standarization is a good thing.