That's a pretty hard line to take. It's like there's this take it or leave it position and the deal that is currently offered for the 3G is all that is and will ever be. The iPhone has been out for two years now. If they want to sell anymore in the US while still stuck to AT&T (maybe) they'll have to address what customers want, which two potential customers just illustrated.
Apple's got the fanboys and tech toy lovers who will bend their wants and wallets to get the most awesome gadgets. Now they may be going after ubiquity by taking over the smartphone/handheld computer market in much the same way that Windows dominated the desktop market early on, by getting everybody they can to jump on board and becoming the de facto standard. Their computers may be oriented toward the well off, but the iphone doesn't have to be.
To become ubiquitous they have to meet the customers halfway, and a lot of that has to do with pricing, and the model that they've been using may very well change with the introduction of these new iphones. I for one hope it does.
I THINK Apple will go for ubiquity (>50% of market) with lower prices coupled with lesser capability, but it's with an expectation of what the world will be like two years from now. Apple fully expects that phones with data (i.e. smartphone or handheld computer) will be rapidly gaining market share and becoming the norm, while voice-only phones become a dying commodity (like VCRs, DVD players, data modems, wired/cordless phones).
As I wrote earlier, Apple has a window of opportunity of at least one year before the big boys (NOK, MSFT, GOOG, RIMM) get all three - solid device, OS and App Store - done well (assuming they can really "get it" and change their ways.)
However, I THINK there are several things that Apple will not do: A voice-only phone. A physical keyboard. A removable battery. That's take it or leave it. So when people ask for those things from Apple, they're just not understanding Apple's vision, values, and principles.
My expectation:
iPhone Video/Pro (video rec/edit/up/down/conf, HSPA 7.2Mbps): $199 for 16GB, $299 for 32GB
iPhone (no video, basic UMTS 3.6Mbps): $99 for 4GB, $149 for 8GB
iPhone China (TD-SCDMA) for China Mobile only: in two storage capacities
The value of flat rate service can be a bit complex to determine. When I first got a mobile phone back in 1998. I paid Sprint $50 for 500 minutes a month. Now I pay AT&T $45 for 450 minutes a month. At last as far as daytime service nothing has changed in the dollar cost per minute over ten years. I don't talk a whole lot on the phone, with roll over minutes I have nearly 2000 daytime minutes stored in my roll over account. It can be argued I'm getting a better value for $45 than I did for $50 ten years ago.
I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.
I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.
Hmm? How old is that survey? Was it focused on the iPhone, which is a different beast than the average cellphone plan. Was it focusing on certain type of phones, users, or plans? With AT&T?s rollover minutes your minutes aren?t lost and can be used later without a per minute charge so that figure isn?t as easily discernible as the article you read may have implied.
What's keeping me from switching from Sprint is the fact that AT&T doesn't have a plan that meets my needs. It really has little to do with the upfront price of the iPhone.
I agree and would add that in my case a data plan would be worthless to me as I don't travel except to and from work, both of which have computers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmafan420
Wow! A WHOLE $100 drop?!? KEWL D00D!
Seriously, does anyone think this is going to increase ownership by 100%?!?
Obviously the true cost is paying for AT$T's crappy service.
I have 2 3Gs, 2 other phones, and unlimited "texting" and my phone bill is well over $200 per month or $4,800 over the life of the contract. Add my two $200 phones and I get to $5,200.
Does ANYONE think dropping this to $5,000 is really gonna be a deal maker for anyone
I hope you can deduct much of this cost as a business expense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtotes
From Apple's historic behaviour it's clear that they are more interested in a quality product than achieving mass market acceptance in a short period.
True, but offering or not offering a data plan or a tiered plan would have nothing to do with quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino
I use a plain old cell phone and an iPod Touch. If I could get an iPhone that kept my monthly cost the same as my plain old phone *and* did what the iPod Touch does via WiFi, I'd bite. Until then IMHO it's not worth doubling my monthly cell bill just to get a few more bells and whistles. I wonder how many are in this same place?
I would prefer not having to carry 2 devices at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
I have 2 friends that want the exact same thing- iPhone without data plan. No need to get addictied to the messaging. All they want is a phone/iPod combo.
I suspect there are a lot of people who would gladly go without a data plan, oh wait, most consumers already do, they just don't buy smart phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215
why would anybody get an iPhone if you don't want the data? That's the whole point of the iPhone. If you just want a basic phone and an ipod, then buy a basic phone and an iPod.
I would prefer not having to carry 2 devices at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215
Touch not a phone. I hadn't realized that - thanks.
I believe what you are discussing is an iPhone with limited / no data contract? As i said before, AT&T can't afford the iPhone subsidy without the data revenue. The only solution to that is higher up front cost. If you're fine with that, then great. However, the additional upfront cost, in MY opinion, might as well be spent on an iPod Touch. Smartphones are all about mobile data access. What's the point of all the glitz if it only makes phone calls?? This applies to all smartphones, not just the iPhone.
I don't need a data plan, but would really appreciate the seamless integration with iTunes, Calender, etc and the occasional game and etc. etc. etc. The iPhone is much much more than what the data plan offers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215
terribly sorry for the confusion. I thought most reasonable readers would understand i meant, "AT&T cannot price the iphone at the current levels if the contracts do not include data revenue." If you drop the data portion, AT&T will simply lower their subsidy hence raising the price. I've said all this before, but apparently I need to spell it out for you people.
Now, do i need to provide a link to support something as common sense as that?
What people really think is that they ought to have whatever products they want, pay whatever they want, and get as many options and choices as they want. What they don't understand is that the iPhone & AT&T are not a monopoly. Dont like their prices? See ya later, plenty of other phones to choose from. Let the large corporations decide how to best run their businesses, and stop pretending like you know something they don't. "They're missing a huge untapped market for XYZ." No, they're not.
Yes they are, most phones sold do not have a data plan. Yes, subsidies pay for some of the upfront cost, but the monthly cost never ends. Assuming the 2 year contract covers the subsidy, why not lower the monthly cost? Ah, the gift that keeps on giving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
You might, but the majority does want a subsidized phones. Apple sold in 6 months of subsidized iPhone 3G what they have sold in a whole year before subsidizing.
I do remember SJ saying that the iPhone will switch to Wifi when in range "to save" money or something like that. I think they figured a $20 for a mandatory data plan is not a big deal at that time since the original iPhone had no competition then.
I do agree that the $30 data plan, even though cheaper than the optional $35 one, is still high for those who don't need unlimited access. The problem is that everyone now is doing it and it doesn't seem like it is going away completely (maybe lower price in the future).
If initial cost is not problem for you, you can buy a brand new officially unlocked, without a contract, and unsubsidized iPhone from ebay for $750 include shipping to the US. If every phone manufacturer tried to meet the requirement and desires of every single buyer then we would have 2 billion phone models.
In the US you're still obligated to use AT&T no matter where you get your iPhone, new or used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005
If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.)
Now Apple could make another phone for voice only users. But it wouldn't be an iPhone, and Apple wouldn't ask the carrier for almost $600 dollars for it. (Why is it not an iPhone? Because Jobs said at least ten times during the debut in Jan 2007 that iPhone is a phone, iPod, and Internet communicator.)
The only obstacle is that Apple is not interested in making just a voice phone, in the same way, that they are not interested in making modems or wired/cordless phones or DVD players. They don't care that millions of people are still buying such things; those are not things that will continue to have growth five years from now. Apple is not interested in getting every one of your consumer electronics dollars; if they are going to introduce something new, it has to be in a market that they project to be growing in the next decade. And to them, a voice-only phone is not it.
And many people, me included, reserve the right to express our opinions that we would appreciate an iPhone without a data plan or with a tiered data plan. Its our right, just as it is Apple's right to not offer one and your right to some how believe its not our right to express our opinions.
I agree and would add that in my case a data plan would be worthless to me as I don't travel except to and from work, both of which have computers.
I hope you can deduct much of this cost as a business expense.
That usually doesn't do too much. Tax deductions usually reduce your taxable income, not your actual tax bill. If you're at a 20% tax rate, you cut your tax bill by $1000 of a $5000 expense.
I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.
Do you happen to remember what survey? I can't find any surveys about that.
Looking at this month, I'm clocking in at about $0.30. But my monthly cycle isn't done yet.
And many people, me included, reserve the right to express our opinions that we would appreciate an iPhone without a data plan or with a tiered data plan. Its our right, just as it is Apple's right to not offer one and your right to some how believe its not our right to express our opinions.
And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.
If you rant about it like you expect Apple to deliver what you want, or that Apple must deliver what you want, then you're just ranting. There's zero probability of it happening. (Just like those who've been saying for years now that Apple must deliver a mid-priced Mac tower.)
And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.
There does seem to be a bit of a certain tone to what you wrote though. It looked to me that you are telling people what they should and shouldn't get in a manner that seems a bit curt.
Quote:
If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.)
Statements like this, to me, completely ignores the (IMO) legitimate use of having an iPod with a phone. Your statement is basically saying to carry two devices instead of one, when Apple already makes the one device that can function for both uses. To say that it has to be a separate device to not offer a data plan is silly, that features doesn't have to be used. Very few people use their devices to the fullest extent of its capabilities, some features just go unused by some people, other features get unused by other people.
Hmm? How old is that survey? Was it focused on the iPhone, which is a different beast than the average cellphone plan. Was it focusing on certain type of phones, users, or plans? With AT&T?s rollover minutes your minutes aren?t lost and can be used later without a per minute charge so that figure isn?t as easily discernible as the article you read may have implied.
The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought. The conclusion of the study is that most people buy a lot more minutes than they use. I suspect this is why the providers like to offer rollover plans. Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.
The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought.
You do make a good argument,but I wouldn?t call them worthless. I like the security of knowing that unused minutes aren?t necessarily disappearing each month, which allows me to get a cheaper plan knowing that if I do start using more minutes with get me close to my in-plan allowance, or even past it, that I won?t be charged additional per-minute pricing until the minute bank is used. So, I agree that people do buy more minutes than they use, but that rollover allows you the peace of mind of not having to purchase an even larger amount per month, thereby reducing the pre-minute cost.
In the US you're still obligated to use AT&T no matter where you get your iPhone, new or used.
Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.
Anybody know what that is?
I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.
Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.
Anybody know what that is?
I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.
I?m not sure I understand what you mean by ?contingency plan?? The next iPhone would be the contingency. Anyone who was using the original iPhone when the iPhone 3G came out could upgrade without a penalty by just renewing their contract for 2 years. This unusual, one time situation between profit sharing and subsidization made it very easy and financially reasonable for many to upgrade in the US.
AT&T is not required to unlock any phones and doing so, especially for the iPhone 3G, is a bit pointless since the US carriers are split between standards right now. I?d think that pretty much anyone who wanted to use the original iPhone on T-Mobile, the only other major GSM-based carrier, would have done so by now.
I?m not sure I understand what you mean by ?contingency plan??
Sorry. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. With AT&T... when your 2 year iPhone contract is over... what options do they provide?
Can you keep the iPhone and select a cheaper non-data plan?
Can you transfer the iPhone to another carrier?
I am in the UK and I don't know what the legal situation is in the US... but everybody signs a two year contract... there must be some options (other than upgrade) at the end of it.
Statements like this, to me, completely ignores the (IMO) legitimate use of having an iPod with a phone. Your statement is basically saying to carry two devices instead of one, when Apple already makes the one device that can function for both uses. To say that it has to be a separate device to not offer a data plan is silly, that features doesn't have to be used. Very few people use their devices to the fullest extent of its capabilities, some features just go unused by some people, other features get unused by other people.
Didn't mean to be curt, just stating what I believe Apple thinks about this based on all the things they've said in the past. First, Apple's vision, to which they are trying to move people, is for an always-connected voice and data handheld communicator/computer. Apple has always had visions and refused to offer a compromise. One can certainly state what one wants but should have little expectation whatsoever that Apple will widen their vision and accommodate it. So no point getting all worked up about it.
Second, on the cost front, the reality is that the real cost of an 8GB iPhone (assuming 30-35% net margin on the bottom line for Apple) was about $550. Today, a year since it was introed, it could be $450 (though I think Apple still asks for the $550 from AT&T). A voice-only two-year plan might be $40/mo yielding $960 over the life of the contract, with little likelihood of any add-on sales. Is that enough margin for AT&T? I don't know but compare it with what is currently happening. AT&T gets $1680 for the cheapest iPhone plan, for which it is paying $350 up-front (but could pay $250 if Apple would give up the new-found margin). Anyway, AT&T gets $1330 over two-years (with the possibility of another $480 if you add unlimited IM). AT&T is giving up almost 56% of its margin to give you a voice-only plan.
By the way, AT&T doesn't pay more than $100 (in subsidies) for most of its phones that don't require a data plan. And Apple wants a $350 subsidy for iPhone. You do the math.
One might say they're just using voice so they're not burdening AT&T's network and forcing them to invest in their network for data. But the future is data, and AT&T must build out, otherwise, they'll have a network that will soon have the same status as that old telephone network to your house. So AT&T is certainly not going to sell you their best phone to use for voice-only, when it's the best (only) thing that could push you to data.
Finally, Apple could make another phone, not an iPhone, since it wouldn't have the "Internet communicator." It would be a voice-only phone plus an iPod nano. It would use a cheaper processor and strip out wi-fi. Maybe it has no touch screen. And Apple could sell it for much cheaper than $250, maybe $200. But I'd bet Apple would say they couldn't do it, just like they can't build a "netbook" or any computer for under $500 that isn't junk.
I put in all this cost stuff, but in the end, it's the vision that drives this, both for Apple (computer platform) and for AT&T (data network).
Adding to my previous post, the iPhone is like a new powerful, fuel-efficient engine that you've just developed. Would you couple that great, brand new engine with a cheap car frame that sells for $15-20k, or with your best car frames that sell for $35-40k? Like most, one with go first with the more expensive, and then over time, move it down through the line to the cheaper. Same with iPhone - first with data-plan required, and then over time, no data plan required.
However, it is likely, that by that time, all voice will be VoIP, and really considered data, and there is no longer any such thing as a voice plan. We'll have to wait and see how it all evolves.
Sorry. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. With AT&T... when your 2 year iPhone contract is over... what options do they provide?
Can you keep the iPhone and select a cheaper non-data plan?
Can you transfer the iPhone to another carrier?
I am in the UK and I don't know what the legal situation is in the US... but everybody signs a two year contract... there must be some options (other than upgrade) at the end of it.
Good questions. It's always been possible to sign up for a new voice-only plan with AT&T, and supply your own phone. And that phone could be your old iPhone. If it was, would AT&T block you when you try to register it since you're on a voice-only plan?
Is there anyone out there who bought a used original iPhone (without taking over the original plan) and just started using it with their voice-only plan? Did AT&T let you?
If you buy an Iphone from AT&T, are you forced to have a data plan or not? What is the cheapest monthly charge you can get with the iphone?
Yes, data plan is required, and the cheapest total monthly charge for a regular individual plan is $69.99 for 450 minutes and unlimited data (no SMS).
You can also add an iPhone as an additional line on a regular family plan. In that case, its $9.99 for the extra line, and $30 for the data plan, for a total of $39.99 extra. For example, the cheapest family plan (voice-only) is $59.99 for 550 minutes a month (with rollover!). You can add an iPhone as the second phone and pay a total of $99.98 for 550 voice minutes with unlimited data for the iPhone.
Comments
That's a pretty hard line to take. It's like there's this take it or leave it position and the deal that is currently offered for the 3G is all that is and will ever be. The iPhone has been out for two years now. If they want to sell anymore in the US while still stuck to AT&T (maybe) they'll have to address what customers want, which two potential customers just illustrated.
Apple's got the fanboys and tech toy lovers who will bend their wants and wallets to get the most awesome gadgets. Now they may be going after ubiquity by taking over the smartphone/handheld computer market in much the same way that Windows dominated the desktop market early on, by getting everybody they can to jump on board and becoming the de facto standard. Their computers may be oriented toward the well off, but the iphone doesn't have to be.
To become ubiquitous they have to meet the customers halfway, and a lot of that has to do with pricing, and the model that they've been using may very well change with the introduction of these new iphones. I for one hope it does.
I THINK Apple will go for ubiquity (>50% of market) with lower prices coupled with lesser capability, but it's with an expectation of what the world will be like two years from now. Apple fully expects that phones with data (i.e. smartphone or handheld computer) will be rapidly gaining market share and becoming the norm, while voice-only phones become a dying commodity (like VCRs, DVD players, data modems, wired/cordless phones).
As I wrote earlier, Apple has a window of opportunity of at least one year before the big boys (NOK, MSFT, GOOG, RIMM) get all three - solid device, OS and App Store - done well (assuming they can really "get it" and change their ways.)
However, I THINK there are several things that Apple will not do: A voice-only phone. A physical keyboard. A removable battery. That's take it or leave it. So when people ask for those things from Apple, they're just not understanding Apple's vision, values, and principles.
My expectation:
iPhone Video/Pro (video rec/edit/up/down/conf, HSPA 7.2Mbps): $199 for 16GB, $299 for 32GB
iPhone (no video, basic UMTS 3.6Mbps): $99 for 4GB, $149 for 8GB
iPhone China (TD-SCDMA) for China Mobile only: in two storage capacities
Nobody, in any generation, should write that way. It's simply rude. Trying to defend it makes you look shameless. Nothing new there.
Who are you responding to?
The value of flat rate service can be a bit complex to determine. When I first got a mobile phone back in 1998. I paid Sprint $50 for 500 minutes a month. Now I pay AT&T $45 for 450 minutes a month. At last as far as daytime service nothing has changed in the dollar cost per minute over ten years. I don't talk a whole lot on the phone, with roll over minutes I have nearly 2000 daytime minutes stored in my roll over account. It can be argued I'm getting a better value for $45 than I did for $50 ten years ago.
I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.
I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.
Hmm? How old is that survey? Was it focused on the iPhone, which is a different beast than the average cellphone plan. Was it focusing on certain type of phones, users, or plans? With AT&T?s rollover minutes your minutes aren?t lost and can be used later without a per minute charge so that figure isn?t as easily discernible as the article you read may have implied.
What's keeping me from switching from Sprint is the fact that AT&T doesn't have a plan that meets my needs. It really has little to do with the upfront price of the iPhone.
I agree and would add that in my case a data plan would be worthless to me as I don't travel except to and from work, both of which have computers.
Wow! A WHOLE $100 drop?!? KEWL D00D!
Seriously, does anyone think this is going to increase ownership by 100%?!?
Obviously the true cost is paying for AT$T's crappy service.
I have 2 3Gs, 2 other phones, and unlimited "texting" and my phone bill is well over $200 per month or $4,800 over the life of the contract. Add my two $200 phones and I get to $5,200.
Does ANYONE think dropping this to $5,000 is really gonna be a deal maker for anyone
From Apple's historic behaviour it's clear that they are more interested in a quality product than achieving mass market acceptance in a short period.
True, but offering or not offering a data plan or a tiered plan would have nothing to do with quality.
I use a plain old cell phone and an iPod Touch. If I could get an iPhone that kept my monthly cost the same as my plain old phone *and* did what the iPod Touch does via WiFi, I'd bite. Until then IMHO it's not worth doubling my monthly cell bill just to get a few more bells and whistles. I wonder how many are in this same place?
I would prefer not having to carry 2 devices at the same time.
I have 2 friends that want the exact same thing- iPhone without data plan. No need to get addictied to the messaging. All they want is a phone/iPod combo.
I suspect there are a lot of people who would gladly go without a data plan, oh wait, most consumers already do, they just don't buy smart phones.
why would anybody get an iPhone if you don't want the data? That's the whole point of the iPhone. If you just want a basic phone and an ipod, then buy a basic phone and an iPod.
I would prefer not having to carry 2 devices at the same time.
Touch not a phone. I hadn't realized that - thanks.
I believe what you are discussing is an iPhone with limited / no data contract? As i said before, AT&T can't afford the iPhone subsidy without the data revenue. The only solution to that is higher up front cost. If you're fine with that, then great. However, the additional upfront cost, in MY opinion, might as well be spent on an iPod Touch. Smartphones are all about mobile data access. What's the point of all the glitz if it only makes phone calls?? This applies to all smartphones, not just the iPhone.
I don't need a data plan, but would really appreciate the seamless integration with iTunes, Calender, etc and the occasional game and etc. etc. etc. The iPhone is much much more than what the data plan offers.
terribly sorry for the confusion. I thought most reasonable readers would understand i meant, "AT&T cannot price the iphone at the current levels if the contracts do not include data revenue." If you drop the data portion, AT&T will simply lower their subsidy hence raising the price. I've said all this before, but apparently I need to spell it out for you people.
Now, do i need to provide a link to support something as common sense as that?
What people really think is that they ought to have whatever products they want, pay whatever they want, and get as many options and choices as they want. What they don't understand is that the iPhone & AT&T are not a monopoly. Dont like their prices? See ya later, plenty of other phones to choose from. Let the large corporations decide how to best run their businesses, and stop pretending like you know something they don't. "They're missing a huge untapped market for XYZ." No, they're not.
Yes they are, most phones sold do not have a data plan. Yes, subsidies pay for some of the upfront cost, but the monthly cost never ends. Assuming the 2 year contract covers the subsidy, why not lower the monthly cost? Ah, the gift that keeps on giving.
You might, but the majority does want a subsidized phones. Apple sold in 6 months of subsidized iPhone 3G what they have sold in a whole year before subsidizing.
I do remember SJ saying that the iPhone will switch to Wifi when in range "to save" money or something like that. I think they figured a $20 for a mandatory data plan is not a big deal at that time since the original iPhone had no competition then.
I do agree that the $30 data plan, even though cheaper than the optional $35 one, is still high for those who don't need unlimited access. The problem is that everyone now is doing it and it doesn't seem like it is going away completely (maybe lower price in the future).
If initial cost is not problem for you, you can buy a brand new officially unlocked, without a contract, and unsubsidized iPhone from ebay for $750 include shipping to the US. If every phone manufacturer tried to meet the requirement and desires of every single buyer then we would have 2 billion phone models.
In the US you're still obligated to use AT&T no matter where you get your iPhone, new or used.
If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.)
Now Apple could make another phone for voice only users. But it wouldn't be an iPhone, and Apple wouldn't ask the carrier for almost $600 dollars for it. (Why is it not an iPhone? Because Jobs said at least ten times during the debut in Jan 2007 that iPhone is a phone, iPod, and Internet communicator.)
The only obstacle is that Apple is not interested in making just a voice phone, in the same way, that they are not interested in making modems or wired/cordless phones or DVD players. They don't care that millions of people are still buying such things; those are not things that will continue to have growth five years from now. Apple is not interested in getting every one of your consumer electronics dollars; if they are going to introduce something new, it has to be in a market that they project to be growing in the next decade. And to them, a voice-only phone is not it.
And many people, me included, reserve the right to express our opinions that we would appreciate an iPhone without a data plan or with a tiered data plan. Its our right, just as it is Apple's right to not offer one and your right to some how believe its not our right to express our opinions.
I agree and would add that in my case a data plan would be worthless to me as I don't travel except to and from work, both of which have computers.
That usually doesn't do too much. Tax deductions usually reduce your taxable income, not your actual tax bill. If you're at a 20% tax rate, you cut your tax bill by $1000 of a $5000 expense.
I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.
Do you happen to remember what survey? I can't find any surveys about that.
Looking at this month, I'm clocking in at about $0.30. But my monthly cycle isn't done yet.
And many people, me included, reserve the right to express our opinions that we would appreciate an iPhone without a data plan or with a tiered data plan. Its our right, just as it is Apple's right to not offer one and your right to some how believe its not our right to express our opinions.
And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.
If you rant about it like you expect Apple to deliver what you want, or that Apple must deliver what you want, then you're just ranting. There's zero probability of it happening. (Just like those who've been saying for years now that Apple must deliver a mid-priced Mac tower.)
And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.
There does seem to be a bit of a certain tone to what you wrote though. It looked to me that you are telling people what they should and shouldn't get in a manner that seems a bit curt.
If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.)
Statements like this, to me, completely ignores the (IMO) legitimate use of having an iPod with a phone. Your statement is basically saying to carry two devices instead of one, when Apple already makes the one device that can function for both uses. To say that it has to be a separate device to not offer a data plan is silly, that features doesn't have to be used. Very few people use their devices to the fullest extent of its capabilities, some features just go unused by some people, other features get unused by other people.
Hmm? How old is that survey? Was it focused on the iPhone, which is a different beast than the average cellphone plan. Was it focusing on certain type of phones, users, or plans? With AT&T?s rollover minutes your minutes aren?t lost and can be used later without a per minute charge so that figure isn?t as easily discernible as the article you read may have implied.
Very recent.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...4417313.column
The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought. The conclusion of the study is that most people buy a lot more minutes than they use. I suspect this is why the providers like to offer rollover plans. Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.
The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought.
You do make a good argument,but I wouldn?t call them worthless. I like the security of knowing that unused minutes aren?t necessarily disappearing each month, which allows me to get a cheaper plan knowing that if I do start using more minutes with get me close to my in-plan allowance, or even past it, that I won?t be charged additional per-minute pricing until the minute bank is used. So, I agree that people do buy more minutes than they use, but that rollover allows you the peace of mind of not having to purchase an even larger amount per month, thereby reducing the pre-minute cost.
In the US you're still obligated to use AT&T no matter where you get your iPhone, new or used.
Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.
Anybody know what that is?
I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.
Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.
Anybody know what that is?
I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.
I?m not sure I understand what you mean by ?contingency plan?? The next iPhone would be the contingency. Anyone who was using the original iPhone when the iPhone 3G came out could upgrade without a penalty by just renewing their contract for 2 years. This unusual, one time situation between profit sharing and subsidization made it very easy and financially reasonable for many to upgrade in the US.
AT&T is not required to unlock any phones and doing so, especially for the iPhone 3G, is a bit pointless since the US carriers are split between standards right now. I?d think that pretty much anyone who wanted to use the original iPhone on T-Mobile, the only other major GSM-based carrier, would have done so by now.
I?m not sure I understand what you mean by ?contingency plan??
Sorry. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. With AT&T... when your 2 year iPhone contract is over... what options do they provide?
Can you keep the iPhone and select a cheaper non-data plan?
Can you transfer the iPhone to another carrier?
I am in the UK and I don't know what the legal situation is in the US... but everybody signs a two year contract... there must be some options (other than upgrade) at the end of it.
Statements like this, to me, completely ignores the (IMO) legitimate use of having an iPod with a phone. Your statement is basically saying to carry two devices instead of one, when Apple already makes the one device that can function for both uses. To say that it has to be a separate device to not offer a data plan is silly, that features doesn't have to be used. Very few people use their devices to the fullest extent of its capabilities, some features just go unused by some people, other features get unused by other people.
Didn't mean to be curt, just stating what I believe Apple thinks about this based on all the things they've said in the past. First, Apple's vision, to which they are trying to move people, is for an always-connected voice and data handheld communicator/computer. Apple has always had visions and refused to offer a compromise. One can certainly state what one wants but should have little expectation whatsoever that Apple will widen their vision and accommodate it. So no point getting all worked up about it.
Second, on the cost front, the reality is that the real cost of an 8GB iPhone (assuming 30-35% net margin on the bottom line for Apple) was about $550. Today, a year since it was introed, it could be $450 (though I think Apple still asks for the $550 from AT&T). A voice-only two-year plan might be $40/mo yielding $960 over the life of the contract, with little likelihood of any add-on sales. Is that enough margin for AT&T? I don't know but compare it with what is currently happening. AT&T gets $1680 for the cheapest iPhone plan, for which it is paying $350 up-front (but could pay $250 if Apple would give up the new-found margin). Anyway, AT&T gets $1330 over two-years (with the possibility of another $480 if you add unlimited IM). AT&T is giving up almost 56% of its margin to give you a voice-only plan.
By the way, AT&T doesn't pay more than $100 (in subsidies) for most of its phones that don't require a data plan. And Apple wants a $350 subsidy for iPhone. You do the math.
One might say they're just using voice so they're not burdening AT&T's network and forcing them to invest in their network for data. But the future is data, and AT&T must build out, otherwise, they'll have a network that will soon have the same status as that old telephone network to your house. So AT&T is certainly not going to sell you their best phone to use for voice-only, when it's the best (only) thing that could push you to data.
Finally, Apple could make another phone, not an iPhone, since it wouldn't have the "Internet communicator." It would be a voice-only phone plus an iPod nano. It would use a cheaper processor and strip out wi-fi. Maybe it has no touch screen. And Apple could sell it for much cheaper than $250, maybe $200. But I'd bet Apple would say they couldn't do it, just like they can't build a "netbook" or any computer for under $500 that isn't junk.
I put in all this cost stuff, but in the end, it's the vision that drives this, both for Apple (computer platform) and for AT&T (data network).
However, it is likely, that by that time, all voice will be VoIP, and really considered data, and there is no longer any such thing as a voice plan. We'll have to wait and see how it all evolves.
Sorry. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. With AT&T... when your 2 year iPhone contract is over... what options do they provide?
Can you keep the iPhone and select a cheaper non-data plan?
Can you transfer the iPhone to another carrier?
I am in the UK and I don't know what the legal situation is in the US... but everybody signs a two year contract... there must be some options (other than upgrade) at the end of it.
Good questions. It's always been possible to sign up for a new voice-only plan with AT&T, and supply your own phone. And that phone could be your old iPhone. If it was, would AT&T block you when you try to register it since you're on a voice-only plan?
Is there anyone out there who bought a used original iPhone (without taking over the original plan) and just started using it with their voice-only plan? Did AT&T let you?
If you buy an Iphone from AT&T, are you forced to have a data plan or not? What is the cheapest monthly charge you can get with the iphone?
Yes, data plan is required, and the cheapest total monthly charge for a regular individual plan is $69.99 for 450 minutes and unlimited data (no SMS).
You can also add an iPhone as an additional line on a regular family plan. In that case, its $9.99 for the extra line, and $30 for the data plan, for a total of $39.99 extra. For example, the cheapest family plan (voice-only) is $59.99 for 550 minutes a month (with rollover!). You can add an iPhone as the second phone and pay a total of $99.98 for 550 voice minutes with unlimited data for the iPhone.