No it's not. I have been exclusively using Apple hardware since before many of the users here were born. Currently, they do not make a machine I can buy/use, at any price. That is inexcusable.
There have been many surveys done, and while the fine precision of such surveys can be questioned, the overall results cannot be ignored. Close to half prefer matte screens, and there are LOTS of people that will not buy glossy at all. There is no justifiable reason to not at least make matte an option - even if it's tacks on $50 like on the monster 17"ers.
Gee.. what did you do during the CRT Era??? Seriously.. I know alot of pro graphics people who have eaten there words after a week on a glossy screen Macbook Pro computer. You actually get a clearer image on the glossy screen, with better color because a matte screen refracts the light. It's not just apple.. ALL computer manufacturers are going with glossy. Apple's Glossy screens aren't really that glossy.
I don't make a living of graphics but I prefer the sharpness of the glossy screen. At any rate.. it wasn't that long ago when all monitors were glossy. Looks like we're headed back there again. Like I said It's not just Apple.. You'll be hard pressed to find Matte LCD's in the near future.
I paid for high-quality anti-glare CRTs. And where that wasn't always possible, many of us took great pains to adjust our working environments (and televisions, etc.) to reduce glare as much as possible. You may not have been around, but many professionals even used monitor "hoods" back in the day. It was also much easier to deal with when we all had fixed-desk working environments, and that's perhaps the biggest gripe about this asinine glossy fad. We are all mobile now. We don't have perfect control over our working environments much of the time! If I have to sit at a desk or table with light coming from behind, it's game over. Maybe I could work for a few minutes, but I'm not going to suffer through that crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider
Seriously.. I know alot of pro graphics people who have eaten there words after a week on a glossy screen Macbook Pro computer.
Without questioning your veracity, I know designers that would rather eat shit than use displays that are designed to look shiny in the showroom, rather than for work. Who we each know doesn't prove anything. However, all the significant polls show people that prefer matte are at the very least, not a small minority. Here's the largest poll I know of, with nearly 31,000 respondents. Go ahead and look at the results.
You actually get a clearer image on the glossy screen, with better color because a matte screen refracts the light.
Of course you get a (very slightly) clearer image. And under ideal conditions, that's fine and dandy. But in most conditions, that nice clear image is blown away by all the reflections! I need to work for many hours at a stretch, every day of the week, and I'm not going to sit in front of an iMirror or iMirrorPro and try to work. I'm not that narcissistic!
Look, I understand there are people that can somehow turn their brain off to the grossly obvious reflections these displays have. But there seem to be at least as many people who see everything without that filtering capability, and people who have issues with eyestrain, and I guarantee Apple is losing sales because of it. The effect will be masked for a while because Apple is growing their user base, and it takes some time for people to run through their upgrade cycle. But when millions of people start making due with their older machines because they don't like the new offerings, Apple will need to change their tune and make matte available as an option.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot. If not, there will always be some manufacturers that "get it". And personally, if I get desperate enough at some point to upgrade, I'll have no problems building a hackintosh. I'd just prefer not to be forced into that corner.
Oh, and even still, I will go visit our local Apple Store soon to see what the new machines look like in person. I do not hold any real hope though.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot. If not, there will always be some manufacturers that "get it".
How is OLED supposed to deal with surface reflections? It would still need some form of surface treatment. The technology behind the surface doesn't erase the need for the surface itself.
You're right about CRTs that were available that had a really good optical antiglare coating, like what you'd see on lenses. Apple's newest CRTs had that, though that may be because they used Trinitron or Diamondtron computer tubes. Most of my CRTs had them. Smooth screen but very little glare. Not for the people that liked touching the screen, I end up wanting to yell at people for doing that. But it is still pretty easy to clean.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
How is OLED supposed to deal with surface reflections? It would still need some form of surface treatment. The technology behind the surface doesn't erase the need for the surface itself.
First, just to clarify, that was just an off-the-cuff statement I tossed in at the end. I'm not an expert on OLED at all, and I probably should have separated that from the rest of my rant.
But my thinking (hoping) is that with the color range and such that they might look great to all types of users without any reflective surface treatment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
You're right about CRTs that were available that had a really good optical antiglare coating, like what you'd see on lenses. Apple's newest CRTs had that, though that may be because they used Trinitron or Diamondtron computer tubes. Most of my CRTs had them. Smooth screen but very little glare. Not for the people that liked touching the screen, I end up wanting to yell at people for doing that. But it is still pretty easy to clean.
People only touched my screens once. ;-) (After getting bitched out, they learned.)
But perhaps this is another direction to have hope. Why not use the anti-glare coatings that people use on their eyeglasses and nice CRTs? I cannot imagine that the average user would notice the miniscule diffraction effects, and wouldn't it be great on iPhone and iPod Touches as well?
I paid for high-quality anti-glare CRTs. And where that wasn't always possible, many of us took great pains to adjust our working environments (and televisions, etc.) to reduce glare as much as possible. You may not have been around, but many professionals even used monitor "hoods" back in the day. It was also much easier to deal with when we all had fixed-desk working environments, and that's perhaps the biggest gripe about this asinine glossy fad. We are all mobile now. We don't have perfect control over our working environments much of the time! If I have to sit at a desk or table with light coming from behind, it's game over. Maybe I could work for a few minutes, but I'm not going to suffer through that crap.
Without questioning your veracity, I know designers that would rather eat shit than use displays that are designed to look shiny in the showroom, rather than for work. Who we each know doesn't prove anything. However, all the significant polls show people that prefer matte are at the very least, not a small minority. Here's the largest poll I know of, with nearly 31,000 respondents. Go ahead and look at the results.
Of course you get a (very slightly) clearer image. And under ideal conditions, that's fine and dandy. But in most conditions, that nice clear image is blown away by all the reflections! I need to work for many hours at a stretch, every day of the week, and I'm not going to sit in front of an iMirror or iMirrorPro and try to work. I'm not that narcissistic!
Look, I understand there are people that can somehow turn their brain off to the grossly obvious reflections these displays have. But there seem to be at least as many people who see everything without that filtering capability, and people who have issues with eyestrain, and I guarantee Apple is losing sales because of it. The effect will be masked for a while because Apple is growing their user base, and it takes some time for people to run through their upgrade cycle. But when millions of people start making due with their older machines because they don't like the new offerings, Apple will need to change their tune and make matte available as an option.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot. If not, there will always be some manufacturers that "get it". And personally, if I get desperate enough at some point to upgrade, I'll have no problems building a hackintosh. I'd just prefer not to be forced into that corner.
Oh, and even still, I will go visit our local Apple Store soon to see what the new machines look like in person. I do not hold any real hope though.
Are you really a professional designer who does all their work on a laptop's primary screen? WTF is the matter with you? (j/k) Get a big external monitor for when you need to do serious work.
Most professionals that I know, still have a desk somewhere that they do serious work. It's not that hard to get a big monitor for it. Actually, it's better since most studies show people are more productive with multiple monitors.
With that said, I think the writing is on the wall and you should get over it. Matte screens will get more expensive simply because everyone is going with glossy. My guess for the shift by the industry is that they have a lower breakage rate and thus save a lot of money on the bottom line.
Are you really a professional designer who does all their work on a laptop's primary screen? WTF is the matter with you? (j/k)
No I'm not, never said I was! WTF is the matter with you? ;-)
What I am, is a very rounded user that needs to meet with clients, employees, investors, and manage a business. That means lots and lots of emails, lots of time in a browser, and actually a good bit of time writing code. And yes, much of that is ideal on a 15" laptop, wherever I happen to be at on any given day/hour. But I will buy off-brand before staring at a mirror every day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy
...
With that said, I think the writing is on the wall and you should get over it. Matte screens will get more expensive simply because everyone is going with glossy. My guess for the shift by the industry is that they have a lower breakage rate and thus save a lot of money on the bottom line.
First, I don't give a shit if they're more expensive - to some reasonable level. Right now, Apple doesn't sell a machine that I can use, AT ANY PRICE!
Second, It wasn't that long ago you would only see big, hurkin' SUVs and pickup trucks at the car dealers. Hey, get over it, people like big rigs. Too bad if you don't like 'em, that's what everybody drives! See? It's a bullshit concept to say such a thing, and fortunately, people do come to their senses. I don't buy the breakage conjecture either; how many people do you know who have broken a laptop screen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy
I hate monitor touchers.. The line i used once was: "you know, I don't know where your finger has been, but I just rubbed my balls on that screen."
Comments
No it's not. I have been exclusively using Apple hardware since before many of the users here were born. Currently, they do not make a machine I can buy/use, at any price. That is inexcusable.
There have been many surveys done, and while the fine precision of such surveys can be questioned, the overall results cannot be ignored. Close to half prefer matte screens, and there are LOTS of people that will not buy glossy at all. There is no justifiable reason to not at least make matte an option - even if it's tacks on $50 like on the monster 17"ers.
Gee.. what did you do during the CRT Era??? Seriously.. I know alot of pro graphics people who have eaten there words after a week on a glossy screen Macbook Pro computer. You actually get a clearer image on the glossy screen, with better color because a matte screen refracts the light. It's not just apple.. ALL computer manufacturers are going with glossy. Apple's Glossy screens aren't really that glossy.
I don't make a living of graphics but I prefer the sharpness of the glossy screen. At any rate.. it wasn't that long ago when all monitors were glossy. Looks like we're headed back there again. Like I said It's not just Apple.. You'll be hard pressed to find Matte LCD's in the near future.
Gee.. what did you do during the CRT Era???
I paid for high-quality anti-glare CRTs. And where that wasn't always possible, many of us took great pains to adjust our working environments (and televisions, etc.) to reduce glare as much as possible. You may not have been around, but many professionals even used monitor "hoods" back in the day. It was also much easier to deal with when we all had fixed-desk working environments, and that's perhaps the biggest gripe about this asinine glossy fad. We are all mobile now. We don't have perfect control over our working environments much of the time! If I have to sit at a desk or table with light coming from behind, it's game over. Maybe I could work for a few minutes, but I'm not going to suffer through that crap.
Seriously.. I know alot of pro graphics people who have eaten there words after a week on a glossy screen Macbook Pro computer.
Without questioning your veracity, I know designers that would rather eat shit than use displays that are designed to look shiny in the showroom, rather than for work. Who we each know doesn't prove anything. However, all the significant polls show people that prefer matte are at the very least, not a small minority. Here's the largest poll I know of, with nearly 31,000 respondents. Go ahead and look at the results.
http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=527
Here's another link with many more detailed personal anecdotes.
http://macmatte.wordpress.com/
Or a google search for "glossy" and eyestrain. Look at the search results here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...y%22+eyestrain
You actually get a clearer image on the glossy screen, with better color because a matte screen refracts the light.
Of course you get a (very slightly) clearer image. And under ideal conditions, that's fine and dandy. But in most conditions, that nice clear image is blown away by all the reflections! I need to work for many hours at a stretch, every day of the week, and I'm not going to sit in front of an iMirror or iMirrorPro and try to work. I'm not that narcissistic!
Look, I understand there are people that can somehow turn their brain off to the grossly obvious reflections these displays have. But there seem to be at least as many people who see everything without that filtering capability, and people who have issues with eyestrain, and I guarantee Apple is losing sales because of it. The effect will be masked for a while because Apple is growing their user base, and it takes some time for people to run through their upgrade cycle. But when millions of people start making due with their older machines because they don't like the new offerings, Apple will need to change their tune and make matte available as an option.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot. If not, there will always be some manufacturers that "get it". And personally, if I get desperate enough at some point to upgrade, I'll have no problems building a hackintosh. I'd just prefer not to be forced into that corner.
Oh, and even still, I will go visit our local Apple Store soon to see what the new machines look like in person. I do not hold any real hope though.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot. If not, there will always be some manufacturers that "get it".
How is OLED supposed to deal with surface reflections? It would still need some form of surface treatment. The technology behind the surface doesn't erase the need for the surface itself.
You're right about CRTs that were available that had a really good optical antiglare coating, like what you'd see on lenses. Apple's newest CRTs had that, though that may be because they used Trinitron or Diamondtron computer tubes. Most of my CRTs had them. Smooth screen but very little glare. Not for the people that liked touching the screen, I end up wanting to yell at people for doing that. But it is still pretty easy to clean.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot.
How is OLED supposed to deal with surface reflections? It would still need some form of surface treatment. The technology behind the surface doesn't erase the need for the surface itself.
First, just to clarify, that was just an off-the-cuff statement I tossed in at the end. I'm not an expert on OLED at all, and I probably should have separated that from the rest of my rant.
But my thinking (hoping) is that with the color range and such that they might look great to all types of users without any reflective surface treatment.
You're right about CRTs that were available that had a really good optical antiglare coating, like what you'd see on lenses. Apple's newest CRTs had that, though that may be because they used Trinitron or Diamondtron computer tubes. Most of my CRTs had them. Smooth screen but very little glare. Not for the people that liked touching the screen, I end up wanting to yell at people for doing that. But it is still pretty easy to clean.
People only touched my screens once. ;-) (After getting bitched out, they learned.)
But perhaps this is another direction to have hope. Why not use the anti-glare coatings that people use on their eyeglasses and nice CRTs? I cannot imagine that the average user would notice the miniscule diffraction effects, and wouldn't it be great on iPhone and iPod Touches as well?
I paid for high-quality anti-glare CRTs. And where that wasn't always possible, many of us took great pains to adjust our working environments (and televisions, etc.) to reduce glare as much as possible. You may not have been around, but many professionals even used monitor "hoods" back in the day. It was also much easier to deal with when we all had fixed-desk working environments, and that's perhaps the biggest gripe about this asinine glossy fad. We are all mobile now. We don't have perfect control over our working environments much of the time! If I have to sit at a desk or table with light coming from behind, it's game over. Maybe I could work for a few minutes, but I'm not going to suffer through that crap.
Without questioning your veracity, I know designers that would rather eat shit than use displays that are designed to look shiny in the showroom, rather than for work. Who we each know doesn't prove anything. However, all the significant polls show people that prefer matte are at the very least, not a small minority. Here's the largest poll I know of, with nearly 31,000 respondents. Go ahead and look at the results.
http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=527
Here's another link with many more detailed personal anecdotes.
http://macmatte.wordpress.com/
Or a google search for "glossy" and eyestrain. Look at the search results here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...y%22+eyestrain
Of course you get a (very slightly) clearer image. And under ideal conditions, that's fine and dandy. But in most conditions, that nice clear image is blown away by all the reflections! I need to work for many hours at a stretch, every day of the week, and I'm not going to sit in front of an iMirror or iMirrorPro and try to work. I'm not that narcissistic!
Look, I understand there are people that can somehow turn their brain off to the grossly obvious reflections these displays have. But there seem to be at least as many people who see everything without that filtering capability, and people who have issues with eyestrain, and I guarantee Apple is losing sales because of it. The effect will be masked for a while because Apple is growing their user base, and it takes some time for people to run through their upgrade cycle. But when millions of people start making due with their older machines because they don't like the new offerings, Apple will need to change their tune and make matte available as an option.
I also hold out hope for OLED or other technologies to hit the scene in the not-so-distant future, making this debate moot. If not, there will always be some manufacturers that "get it". And personally, if I get desperate enough at some point to upgrade, I'll have no problems building a hackintosh. I'd just prefer not to be forced into that corner.
Oh, and even still, I will go visit our local Apple Store soon to see what the new machines look like in person. I do not hold any real hope though.
Are you really a professional designer who does all their work on a laptop's primary screen? WTF is the matter with you? (j/k) Get a big external monitor for when you need to do serious work.
Most professionals that I know, still have a desk somewhere that they do serious work. It's not that hard to get a big monitor for it. Actually, it's better since most studies show people are more productive with multiple monitors.
With that said, I think the writing is on the wall and you should get over it. Matte screens will get more expensive simply because everyone is going with glossy. My guess for the shift by the industry is that they have a lower breakage rate and thus save a lot of money on the bottom line.
People only touched my screens once. ;-) (After getting bitched out, they learned.)
I hate monitor touchers.. The line i used once was: "you know, I don't know where your finger has been, but I just rubbed my balls on that screen."
lol.
Are you really a professional designer who does all their work on a laptop's primary screen? WTF is the matter with you? (j/k)
No I'm not, never said I was! WTF is the matter with you? ;-)
What I am, is a very rounded user that needs to meet with clients, employees, investors, and manage a business. That means lots and lots of emails, lots of time in a browser, and actually a good bit of time writing code. And yes, much of that is ideal on a 15" laptop, wherever I happen to be at on any given day/hour. But I will buy off-brand before staring at a mirror every day.
...
With that said, I think the writing is on the wall and you should get over it. Matte screens will get more expensive simply because everyone is going with glossy. My guess for the shift by the industry is that they have a lower breakage rate and thus save a lot of money on the bottom line.
First, I don't give a shit if they're more expensive - to some reasonable level. Right now, Apple doesn't sell a machine that I can use, AT ANY PRICE!
Second, It wasn't that long ago you would only see big, hurkin' SUVs and pickup trucks at the car dealers. Hey, get over it, people like big rigs. Too bad if you don't like 'em, that's what everybody drives! See? It's a bullshit concept to say such a thing, and fortunately, people do come to their senses. I don't buy the breakage conjecture either; how many people do you know who have broken a laptop screen?
I hate monitor touchers.. The line i used once was: "you know, I don't know where your finger has been, but I just rubbed my balls on that screen."
You just made up for the lame comments above. ;-)