Snow Leopard increases speed across the entire system and for newly re-designed Apps that use the new technologies by between 50-130%. How isn't that getting a new computer for $30?
How about we actually see if developers get off their lazy asses and even attempt to take advantage of Snow Leopard, rather than believing blind numbers?
Go on then. Say Windows 7 looks better. I challenge you.
I can't believe people are still bitching for having to pay $30 to get a new computer.
I'm not bitching about the $30 (if you read more carefully) and Windows always looks like a Kiddie Carnival to me (ugly as sh*t).
What I'm saying is ten year old blobby blue scroll bars are passé and if anyone should have higher standards for GUIs it's Apple. I will be buying Snow Leopard for the "under the hood" improvements, and I would still buy it if it was the old price.
It's just dissapointing and stupid (IMO) if they haven't done any real work on the GUI. The changes noted in this article are the kind of things that change when you re-code the dialogue boxes and so forth and given that Finder has been re-written, sort of to be expected. They are also nothing earth-shaking and likely not even noticeable to the average user.
I'd like to see something new, something unified, and for Apple to take a step back from the gharish-ness that is Leopard. Something more serious is in order IMO but from recent developments we might have to wait until 10.7.
Also, I'm liking the muted pallet and scroll bars.
I just figured out what you mean. That option has actually been in OS X from the very start: under System Preferences > Appearance choose Appearance: Graphite.
(I like that too, BUT I wish the window dot gadgets would light up in full color just when you mouse over them. I also REALLY wish the Leopard "embossed" folder icons had unique colors instead of just a slightly-darker blue. Being able to tell Applications from Library at a glance used to be nice. I'll try to avoid that rant now )
Now if they can just strip out the last remnants of Aqua.
I expect the menu bars will have a "Marble" interface (like the QuickTime example) but AAPL is keeping it under wraps so MS doesn't swipe it for Windows 7.
I expect the menu bars will have a "Marble" interface (like the QuickTime example) but AAPL is keeping it under wraps so MS doesn't swipe it for Windows 7.
Except Windows 7 is virtually complete, with RTM likely less than a month away.
Maybe Apple is just too lazy to unify their interface. Did you ever think of that? It didn't happen in Tiger. It didn't happen in Leopard. And it probably won't happen in Snow Leopard.
Even Microsoft has made an attempt to make a more unified interface in Windows 7. But you're right, I guess they're too busy stealing features from Snow Leopard. Oh, wait...
I just wish they would add the ability to view animated GIF's in Preview and not have to resort to using a web browser, especially given the fact that when you download an animated GIF it defaults to Preview.
Indeed. This is the sort of common sense thinking that is needed over in that Cupertino Hotel.
A transparent menu bar and light text on dark backgrounds?ugh! Is Apple going to sacrifice legibility and usability for this cheap bling? How Microsoft. Seriously, I hope these are options rather than mandatory, but when has Apple been known to give optionality over uniformity?
On second thought, so much for uniformity?some things are still dark text on brushed metal while others are light text on black glass?inconsistent UIs across apps are irritating, and yet I?m guessing the optionality isn?t there.
Indeed. This is the sort of common sense thinking that is needer over at that Cupertino hotel.
Well Apple is too busy convincing the world that Windows 7 is just an "upgrading Vista" to bother with adding some very basic functionality (you know, the kind of stuff that Microsoft has had since Windows 2000) into their own "upgraded Leopard."
... The aqua UI artwork was already IN Cocoa--nothing to add back in. The new Finder and everything else uses what Cocoa has built in.
In any case, even if redoing apps using old UI stuff WOULD mean lots of extra work... it's still clearly what they've done, because we've seen it (some if us have even used it) and it has the old artwork. Even if secret other artwork exists somewhere, the work to use the old artwork has been done too. ...
Thanks for the correction about the artwork. I am not a developer (obviously).
Given what you've said about them re-doing the artwork, or re-using the old artwork anyway though it doesn't change my feeling on the matter. I come from an arts & design background, and aesthetics are very, very important to me on a personal level. I also understand better than most the intimate connection between the visual design of the GUI and it's utility.
For those reasons it still makes no sense to me to purposely add in the aqua scroll-bars in particular given that doing so purposely creates GUI disunity when it wasn't necessary to do so. I can only think that they were either rushed or that they actually believe that that there is some kind of retro "cuteness" or brand awareness issues that would make consumers prefer the aqua stuff. I just think they are wrong.
Despite it's "classy" image, Apple is famous for some hideous "bad taste" mistakes over the years, (Leopard spots anyone?), perhaps this is one of them.
For those reasons it still makes no sense to me to purposely add in the aqua scroll-bars in particular given that doing so purposely creates GUI disunity when it wasn't necessary to do so. I can only think that they were either rushed or that they actually believe that that there is some kind of retro "cuteness" or brand awareness issues that would make consumers prefer the aqua stuff. I just think they are wrong.
You know, it's VERY easy to get the iTunes scroll bars system wide if you really want to...
I really really hope snow leopard includes more new wallpaper.
Well you get that new aurora. I wouldn't expect anymore. We are dealing with Apple here. Though it would be nice if they threw in three more great pics. Some of the existing ones are quite pleasant.
Check out Chris Gin's work, some great wallpapers over there. I'm sure he's on Flickr too.
Thanks for the correction about the artwork. I am not a developer (obviously).
Given what you've said about them re-doing the artwork, or re-using the old artwork anyway though it doesn't change my feeling on the matter. I come from an arts & design background, and aesthetics are very, very important to me on a personal level. I also understand better than most the intimate connection between the visual design of the GUI and it's utility.
For those reasons it still makes no sense to me to purposely add in the aqua scroll-bars in particular given that doing so purposely creates GUI disunity when it wasn't necessary to do so. I can only think that they were either rushed or that they actually believe that that there is some kind of retro "cuteness" or brand awareness issues that would make consumers prefer the aqua stuff. I just think they are wrong.
Despite it's "classy" image, Apple is famous for some hideous "bad taste" mistakes over the years, (Leopard spots anyone?), perhaps this is one of them.
I agree, I'd like to see a new UI. As much as I like aqua, Apple has NEVER quite managed the UI consistency that we know they (of all companies) could manage. I don't mind having a few different UI styles if they have a consistent reason, but they often don't.
However, I lack much hope for it in 10.6, given the low price and low marketing spin.
Anyway, just to clarify: it wasn't a matter of "purposely adding" the old aqua stuff into Snow Leopard--it's a matter of NOT removing it (and making new artwork to replace it). UI artwork is (usually) not contained in the app, it's contained in the operating system, where it exists for both Cocoa and Carbon apps to use. So there's no work involved in NOT changing that artwork.
I suspect than when a new UI finally appears (10.7?) it will go hand-in-hand with the long-awaited resolution independence support.
CaLike I said, I'm still hoping against hope that there will be a surprise on launch day because otherwise the $30 price tag is looking less like a deal and more like an unavoidable necessity considering this new Leopard is going to look pretty much exactly the same as the old Leopard.
Whine, whine, whine.
You're getting dramatic speed increases, improved stability, and a more solid framework while reducing the size of the system - along with a number of new features. All for $29.
Why in the world does Apple have to change the UI every year or so to make some people happy? I happen to think they got it right pretty much from the start so there's no need to scrap it and start over every year or so.
But if you like a new UI regularly, go ahead and switch OSs every few months.
Call me hopeful but I'm still looking for some new GUI love. I can't believe that they are actually going to release this thing with the same interface as regular Leopard.
I find it ridiculous (and very very hard to believe) that Apple would re-design the entire finder using Cocoa and RI, which basically means re-doing all the artwork and resources, and then carefully added the aqua "blue blob" stuff back in.
Why would they do that? There is nothing attractive, innovative, or good about those aqua scroll bars anymore. They are almost ten years old at this point.
Well, look at Leopard and how it originally looked just like Tiger until they announced its original release date (which then got pushed back due to iPhone development)? Maybe it's too late to replace all the remaining Aqua elements, but like you, I think there's still a chance we'll see those replaced with something that matches Leopard's otherwise subtle, subdued, modern UI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2
Also, the "black glass" stuff is so obviously just "tacked on" to the rest of the GUI. Why re-design the GUI from the ground up but leave even more visual inconsistencies than they already had? None of this makes any sense.
Why re-do all your hardware in black glass and grey aluminium, and then re-design only *half* of the GUI of the software to match, leaving the other half kind of ugly-retro looking beside it? Especially when the graphics work all had to be re-done anyway?
How is the black glass used in QuickTime X Player, QuickLook, and Stacks "tacked on"? The only thing that sticks out to me are the Aqua scroll bars, window controls, and action dialogs. Replace the buttons with Time Machine's System Preference pane theme, the scroll bars with iTunes' flat matte theme, resize sliders with iTunes' black theme, and the window controls with something else and everything will look quite a bit better.
One example of Apple replacing an old UI element in Snow Leopard (though I don't think it could be classified as Aqua) is the new menu that pops up when you click-and-hold on an application's Dock icon:
Inverting the Menu Bar and other contextual menus so that it mimics the iPhone's/QTX's white-text-on-black glass aesthetic seems possible, though that could make things too dark. Expecting other windows to get the same black-glass is less realistic as it would look rather Window Media Player 11ish, bleh. A darker grey with white text is more likely if anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2
Like I said, I'm still hoping against hope that there will be a surprise on launch day because otherwise the $30 price tag is looking less like a deal and more like an unavoidable necessity considering this new Leopard is going to look pretty much exactly the same as the old Leopard.
They wouldn't drop a new UI on developers the day of launch. Snow Leopard is set to launch at some point in September, so that leaves three or four months (four if it launches closer to the end of the month). I would guess if they're going to kill Aqua in Snow Leopard that we'd see it in August at the latest.
So now you can right-click the text of a snide forum comment, send to iTunes as speech, then rename it to .m4r and have it as your ringtone. In mere seconds!
This will change the way we use forums.
Ha-ha. Great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman
You people are not very grateful. Read up on Snow Leopard or watch the WWDC keynote. If you have not taken any time to notice what Apple is saying about this upgrade is that it is, for the most part, an under the hood upgrade. Apple didn't have to re-write the entire Finder in Cocoa but guess what? They did. That alone is worth 30 bucks.
30 Dollars is like going out to dinner twice a week.
OMG, not only am I ungrateful, I am now officially a member of the group known as "you people." It's taken a long time. When do I get my membership card?
I've taken a lot of time to read up on what Apple has been saying about Snow Leopard. Yes, it's a lot of technical changes. Snooze.
Yes, I'll probably go for it, but I can't think of a good reason (yet) to recommend it to anyone else. Believe it or don't, most people really don't care about technical improvements. Try out "Cocoa Finder" on your average Mac user, if you want to see glazed eyes or a blank look.
Comments
Snow Leopard increases speed across the entire system and for newly re-designed Apps that use the new technologies by between 50-130%. How isn't that getting a new computer for $30?
How about we actually see if developers get off their lazy asses and even attempt to take advantage of Snow Leopard, rather than believing blind numbers?
Go on then. Say Windows 7 looks better. I challenge you.
I can't believe people are still bitching for having to pay $30 to get a new computer.
I'm not bitching about the $30 (if you read more carefully) and Windows always looks like a Kiddie Carnival to me (ugly as sh*t).
What I'm saying is ten year old blobby blue scroll bars are passé and if anyone should have higher standards for GUIs it's Apple. I will be buying Snow Leopard for the "under the hood" improvements, and I would still buy it if it was the old price.
It's just dissapointing and stupid (IMO) if they haven't done any real work on the GUI. The changes noted in this article are the kind of things that change when you re-code the dialogue boxes and so forth and given that Finder has been re-written, sort of to be expected. They are also nothing earth-shaking and likely not even noticeable to the average user.
I'd like to see something new, something unified, and for Apple to take a step back from the gharish-ness that is Leopard. Something more serious is in order IMO but from recent developments we might have to wait until 10.7.
...
Also, I'm liking the muted pallet and scroll bars.
I just figured out what you mean. That option has actually been in OS X from the very start: under System Preferences > Appearance choose Appearance: Graphite.
(I like that too, BUT I wish the window dot gadgets would light up in full color just when you mouse over them. I also REALLY wish the Leopard "embossed" folder icons had unique colors instead of just a slightly-darker blue. Being able to tell Applications from Library at a glance used to be nice. I'll try to avoid that rant now
Now if they can just strip out the last remnants of Aqua.
I expect the menu bars will have a "Marble" interface (like the QuickTime example) but AAPL is keeping it under wraps so MS doesn't swipe it for Windows 7.
I expect the menu bars will have a "Marble" interface (like the QuickTime example) but AAPL is keeping it under wraps so MS doesn't swipe it for Windows 7.
Except Windows 7 is virtually complete, with RTM likely less than a month away.
Maybe Apple is just too lazy to unify their interface. Did you ever think of that? It didn't happen in Tiger. It didn't happen in Leopard. And it probably won't happen in Snow Leopard.
Even Microsoft has made an attempt to make a more unified interface in Windows 7. But you're right, I guess they're too busy stealing features from Snow Leopard. Oh, wait...
I just wish they would add the ability to view animated GIF's in Preview and not have to resort to using a web browser, especially given the fact that when you download an animated GIF it defaults to Preview.
Indeed. This is the sort of common sense thinking that is needed over in that Cupertino Hotel.
On second thought, so much for uniformity?some things are still dark text on brushed metal while others are light text on black glass?inconsistent UIs across apps are irritating, and yet I?m guessing the optionality isn?t there.
Indeed. This is the sort of common sense thinking that is needer over at that Cupertino hotel.
Well Apple is too busy convincing the world that Windows 7 is just an "upgrading Vista" to bother with adding some very basic functionality (you know, the kind of stuff that Microsoft has had since Windows 2000) into their own "upgraded Leopard."
... The aqua UI artwork was already IN Cocoa--nothing to add back in. The new Finder and everything else uses what Cocoa has built in.
In any case, even if redoing apps using old UI stuff WOULD mean lots of extra work... it's still clearly what they've done, because we've seen it (some if us have even used it) and it has the old artwork. Even if secret other artwork exists somewhere, the work to use the old artwork has been done too. ...
Thanks for the correction about the artwork. I am not a developer (obviously).
Given what you've said about them re-doing the artwork, or re-using the old artwork anyway though it doesn't change my feeling on the matter. I come from an arts & design background, and aesthetics are very, very important to me on a personal level. I also understand better than most the intimate connection between the visual design of the GUI and it's utility.
For those reasons it still makes no sense to me to purposely add in the aqua scroll-bars in particular given that doing so purposely creates GUI disunity when it wasn't necessary to do so. I can only think that they were either rushed or that they actually believe that that there is some kind of retro "cuteness" or brand awareness issues that would make consumers prefer the aqua stuff. I just think they are wrong.
Despite it's "classy" image, Apple is famous for some hideous "bad taste" mistakes over the years, (Leopard spots anyone?), perhaps this is one of them.
For those reasons it still makes no sense to me to purposely add in the aqua scroll-bars in particular given that doing so purposely creates GUI disunity when it wasn't necessary to do so. I can only think that they were either rushed or that they actually believe that that there is some kind of retro "cuteness" or brand awareness issues that would make consumers prefer the aqua stuff. I just think they are wrong.
You know, it's VERY easy to get the iTunes scroll bars system wide if you really want to...
I really really hope snow leopard includes more new wallpaper.
Well you get that new aurora. I wouldn't expect anymore. We are dealing with Apple here. Though it would be nice if they threw in three more great pics. Some of the existing ones are quite pleasant.
Check out Chris Gin's work, some great wallpapers over there. I'm sure he's on Flickr too.
Thanks for the correction about the artwork. I am not a developer (obviously).
Given what you've said about them re-doing the artwork, or re-using the old artwork anyway though it doesn't change my feeling on the matter. I come from an arts & design background, and aesthetics are very, very important to me on a personal level. I also understand better than most the intimate connection between the visual design of the GUI and it's utility.
For those reasons it still makes no sense to me to purposely add in the aqua scroll-bars in particular given that doing so purposely creates GUI disunity when it wasn't necessary to do so. I can only think that they were either rushed or that they actually believe that that there is some kind of retro "cuteness" or brand awareness issues that would make consumers prefer the aqua stuff. I just think they are wrong.
Despite it's "classy" image, Apple is famous for some hideous "bad taste" mistakes over the years, (Leopard spots anyone?), perhaps this is one of them.
I agree, I'd like to see a new UI. As much as I like aqua, Apple has NEVER quite managed the UI consistency that we know they (of all companies) could manage. I don't mind having a few different UI styles if they have a consistent reason, but they often don't.
However, I lack much hope for it in 10.6, given the low price and low marketing spin.
Anyway, just to clarify: it wasn't a matter of "purposely adding" the old aqua stuff into Snow Leopard--it's a matter of NOT removing it (and making new artwork to replace it). UI artwork is (usually) not contained in the app, it's contained in the operating system, where it exists for both Cocoa and Carbon apps to use. So there's no work involved in NOT changing that artwork.
I suspect than when a new UI finally appears (10.7?) it will go hand-in-hand with the long-awaited resolution independence support.
CaLike I said, I'm still hoping against hope that there will be a surprise on launch day because otherwise the $30 price tag is looking less like a deal and more like an unavoidable necessity considering this new Leopard is going to look pretty much exactly the same as the old Leopard.
Whine, whine, whine.
You're getting dramatic speed increases, improved stability, and a more solid framework while reducing the size of the system - along with a number of new features. All for $29.
Why in the world does Apple have to change the UI every year or so to make some people happy? I happen to think they got it right pretty much from the start so there's no need to scrap it and start over every year or so.
But if you like a new UI regularly, go ahead and switch OSs every few months.
Call me hopeful but I'm still looking for some new GUI love. I can't believe that they are actually going to release this thing with the same interface as regular Leopard.
I find it ridiculous (and very very hard to believe) that Apple would re-design the entire finder using Cocoa and RI, which basically means re-doing all the artwork and resources, and then carefully added the aqua "blue blob" stuff back in.
Why would they do that? There is nothing attractive, innovative, or good about those aqua scroll bars anymore. They are almost ten years old at this point.
Well, look at Leopard and how it originally looked just like Tiger until they announced its original release date (which then got pushed back due to iPhone development)? Maybe it's too late to replace all the remaining Aqua elements, but like you, I think there's still a chance we'll see those replaced with something that matches Leopard's otherwise subtle, subdued, modern UI.
Also, the "black glass" stuff is so obviously just "tacked on" to the rest of the GUI. Why re-design the GUI from the ground up but leave even more visual inconsistencies than they already had? None of this makes any sense.
Why re-do all your hardware in black glass and grey aluminium, and then re-design only *half* of the GUI of the software to match, leaving the other half kind of ugly-retro looking beside it? Especially when the graphics work all had to be re-done anyway?
How is the black glass used in QuickTime X Player, QuickLook, and Stacks "tacked on"?
One example of Apple replacing an old UI element in Snow Leopard (though I don't think it could be classified as Aqua) is the new menu that pops up when you click-and-hold on an application's Dock icon:
Inverting the Menu Bar and other contextual menus so that it mimics the iPhone's/QTX's white-text-on-black glass aesthetic seems possible, though that could make things too dark. Expecting other windows to get the same black-glass is less realistic as it would look rather Window Media Player 11ish, bleh. A darker grey with white text is more likely if anything.
Like I said, I'm still hoping against hope that there will be a surprise on launch day because otherwise the $30 price tag is looking less like a deal and more like an unavoidable necessity considering this new Leopard is going to look pretty much exactly the same as the old Leopard.
They wouldn't drop a new UI on developers the day of launch. Snow Leopard is set to launch at some point in September, so that leaves three or four months (four if it launches closer to the end of the month). I would guess if they're going to kill Aqua in Snow Leopard that we'd see it in August at the latest.
Well you get that new aurora. I wouldn't expect anymore. We are dealing with Apple here.
...
Does Apple have a reputation for offering too few bundled wallpapers? Leopard comes with 79.
So now you can right-click the text of a snide forum comment, send to iTunes as speech, then rename it to .m4r and have it as your ringtone. In mere seconds!
This will change the way we use forums.
Ha-ha. Great.
You people are not very grateful. Read up on Snow Leopard or watch the WWDC keynote. If you have not taken any time to notice what Apple is saying about this upgrade is that it is, for the most part, an under the hood upgrade. Apple didn't have to re-write the entire Finder in Cocoa but guess what? They did. That alone is worth 30 bucks.
30 Dollars is like going out to dinner twice a week.
OMG, not only am I ungrateful, I am now officially a member of the group known as "you people." It's taken a long time. When do I get my membership card?
I've taken a lot of time to read up on what Apple has been saying about Snow Leopard. Yes, it's a lot of technical changes. Snooze.
Yes, I'll probably go for it, but I can't think of a good reason (yet) to recommend it to anyone else. Believe it or don't, most people really don't care about technical improvements. Try out "Cocoa Finder" on your average Mac user, if you want to see glazed eyes or a blank look.