finally, the pre's multitasking is great idea, but that's all it is until it has the same caliber apps to multitask with! only if it has...
Well, based on what I've read from a variety of different reviewers, the Palm Pre's battery life can be really bad, especially when running things in the background like IM. With what reviewers described as "moderate use", they were having to plug-in before dinner time...
Double the ram and 50% quicker clock speed ain't nothing to scoff at.
So. Tempting. Must. Resit.
I don't want to single you out, but It drives me crazy that so many people don't acknowledge the fact that the 3GS is NOT just a clockspeed bump!
The 600Mhz Cortex-A8 in the 3GS is compatible with, but totally different to the 412mhz ARM11 in the iPhone 3G. It is similar in raw computational ability to a 1000-1200Mhz ARM11. Applications, especially games and web browsing, should run much faster and smoother. Application launch time
will decrease, but it won't show you the full capability of the chip because launch time is probably held back by other variables like the storage system.
Saying that the iPhone 3GS is just a 50% clock speed bump is like saying that a 1.5 Ghz Core 2 Solo is only a 50% bump up from a 1.0Ghz Intel Atom.
I don't want to single you out, but It drives me crazy that so many people don't acknowledge the fact that the 3GS is NOT just a clockspeed bump!
The 600Mhz Cortex-A8 in the 3GS is compatible with, but totally different to the 412mhz ARM11 in the iPhone 3G. It is similar in raw computational ability to a 1000-1200Mhz ARM11. Applications, especially games and web browsing, should run much faster and smoother. Application launch time
will decrease, but it won't show you the full capability of the chip because launch time is probably held back by other variables like the storage system.
Saying that the iPhone 3GS is just a 50% clock speed bump is like saying that a 1.5 Ghz Core 2 Solo is only a 50% bump up from a 1.0Ghz Intel Atom.
You're likely to have a long life of frustration then. Almost nobody knows what chip is inside their phone, let alone the architectural differences and how those translate into real world performance for each type of task. This is especially the case when apple is purposefully trying to portray a unified platform.
I've yet to see real-world bench marks from independent testers. So until then... 50% higher clockspeed.
i was in the USA (San Francisco) last month, brought my iphone with me, reception/dropped calls was terrible compared to here in Germany. so i guess it's a network issue rather than the device itself...
i was in the USA (San Francisco) last month, brought my iphone with me, reception/dropped calls was terrible compared to here in Germany. so i guess it's a network issue rather than the device itself...
You are absolutely right. It is all about AT&T here in the states. They are really rock bottom here and it will only get worse now that they have increased their 3G phones tenfold.
NYC is the worse. Friends have to literally stick their heads near a window to get calls.
Oh well- one day. Congrats to you Europeans though- enjoy!
Oh well- one day. Congrats to you Europeans though- enjoy!
i do not know much about who owns which network in the USA and which tech the employ, here we were lucky that the japanese (DoCoMo) bought a stake in the provider and updated all the hardware on the network. ever since reception has been pretty good.
so good luck to you, hope ATT doesn't ruin the fun for you :-)
"and it can't compete with phones like Nokia's new $700 N97, which has a 5-megapixel camera with zoom."
First of all, the N97 DOES NOT have a real (i.e. optical) zoom -- it has the ridiculous and worthless feature of "digital zoom" aka "crop & interpolate" which destroys image quality.
Additionally, the camera len/sensor may indeed be superior (it should be based on the thickness of that phone), but I have to wonder if Mossberg is actually comparing the real quality of the images versus suggesting "it must be better with 5MP".
"Video recording works well, but the iPhone doesn't take HD movies and its quality pales in comparison to the popular $229 Flip pocket camcorder."
WHAT? First of all, I have only heard of one cell phone that can record "HD" video (Samsung i8910), so it's obviously not a common feature. More importantly, it is a completely POINTLESS non-feature considering the crappy lenses and tiny sensors that can fit in an iPhone-size device.
And how about comparing the video quality to the iPhone's smartphone *COMPETITORS*, not some dedicated video recorder. Of COURSE it would be better, even a $150 digital camera should be able to take better video. It's a cellphone FFS!
Mossberg has been so whacked around and abused by anti-iPhonists that he probably feels compelled to make some silly statements like these. I think the poor guy (and David Pogue at NYT too, for that matter) is rattled by all the venom he generates whenever he says decent things about Apple.
Mossberg has been so whacked around and abused by anti-iPhonists that he probably feels compelled to make some silly statements like these. I think the poor guy (and David Pogue at NYT too, for that matter) is rattled by all the venom he generates whenever he says decent things about Apple.
Mossberg is an Apple Fanboy- would you expect otherwise?
Well, based on what I've read from a variety of different reviewers, the Palm Pre's battery life can be really bad, especially when running things in the background like IM. With what reviewers described as "moderate use", they were having to plug-in before dinner time...
The Pre's battery issue with IM is a bug that Palm has acknowledged and has promised to fix. I certainly wouldn't use this as a deciding factor to upgrade my 3G to a 3GS or a Pre.
I've yet to see real-world bench marks from independent testers. So until then... 50% higher clockspeed.
He makes a valid point. By your reckoning, PCs haven?t gotten much faster for years as they?re mostly still in the 2-3GHz range. I certainly wouldn?t take a 3Ghz P4 over a 2GHz Xeon.
There will be plenty of testing going on shortly. AnandTech posted a preliminary test for the iPhone 3G and Palm Pre. I?m guessing he?s waiting for the 3GS, which is more inline with the Pre?s HW to complete his tests. Before his comes out (since he is usually very thorough) we?ll see plenty of benchmarks and comparisons from other sources sprouting up all weekend.
The Pre's battery issue with IM is a bug that Palm has acknowledged and has promised to fix. I certainly wouldn't use this as a deciding factor to upgrade my 3G to a 3GS or a Pre.
While that is true, it certainly does justify Apple?s decision to not allow background 3rd-party apps. Note that Palm is also working on a Push Notification Server for WebOS. PN can?t do everything, but it can do a lot and save CPU, RAM and by extension your battery in the process.
PS: I look forward to the jailbreaking of the iPhone 3GS to see how much RAM is available to developers. I can?t help but think that Apple is working on a method for allowing a limited number of background apps. This will likely require Apple to regulate that the app uses up to a certain amount of RAM and CPU while running in the background, this way iPhone developers won?t have to waste their time developing for the potential of a background app affecting how their app runs in the foreground. It?s easy to just let your apps run free and not care how they affect the user experience, but it take some effort to work out the logistical issue and then code for it. Even the Palm Pre with its Cortex A8 and only using webcode for it?s apps have shown a dramatic slowdown in testing when too many apps are running in the background.
He makes a valid point. By your reckoning, PCs haven’t gotten much faster for years as they’re mostly still in the 2-3GHz range. I certainly wouldn’t take a 3Ghz P4 over a 2GHz Xeon.
There will be plenty of testing going on shortly. AnandTech posted a preliminary test for the iPhone 3G and Palm Pre. I’m guessing he’s waiting for the 3GS, which is more inline with the Pre’s HW to complete his tests. Before his comes out (since he is usually very thorough) we’ll see plenty of benchmarks and comparisons from other sources sprouting up all weekend.
The point is valid, but it isn't in contradiction to mine. And please don't put words in my mouth.
Nowhere is anyone claiming that architectural differences should be ignored. It's just that they haven't been written about and tied to iphone performance figures yet. What are we supposed to do, not mention the clock speed increase? Would that really be an improvement?
The point is valid, but it isn't in contradiction to mine. And please don't put words in my mouth.
Nowhere is anyone claiming that architectural differences should be ignored. It's just that they haven't been written about and tied to iphone performance figures yet. What are we supposed to do, not mention the clock speed increase? Would that really be an improvement?
Gotcha! I did come into the thread at post #25. Too many articles and posts to read everything some days.
While we don?t know the CPU at this point I think it?s safe bet to say it?s the Cortex A8. There is just no other commercial option that will allow for double the performance while also reducing the battery.
I really hope you're not planning on becoming a professional grammar nazi!
"As well as" would imply that there's some multitasking happening with the new iPhone -- besides music playback, email check, and phone services, "non existent" should be the only term applied to the iPhone.
.
Maybe you should actually READ the article, " " means you quote something someone else wrote, he wrote that, I called out that he was implying that there was multi-tasking.
Wow new products really bring out the winners on the internet don't they.
Nice try tough guy, but you proved that you are quick to judge and while trying to prove your eManhood you failed, goodbye.
Bravo and I couldn't agree more. Sittin' in front of the Palo Alto Apple Store right now lovin' all your comments. I'm first in the queue and so far the only person in the queue. Come on guys. Don't you want to be second or third?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky g
I'm surprised that all reviewers seem to be missing a major feature of the new iPhone, and really a very obvious one...
32GB!
Yes, uh, many of us do indeed use our iPhones as our iPods nowadays, and yes, for many of us, the jump from 16GB to 32GB shifts the iPhone from "just being adequate capacity-wise to use as your iPod" to "definitely fine for all my iPod needs".
This is big, people!
On top of that, the totally revamped processor & video chip, (presumably) upped RAM, much better camera w/ video, voice control, compass, improved battery life, considerably faster wireless chip (will be useful in 1-2 years in the USA).
This is by far a bigger update than was iPhone to iPhone 3G. iPhone 3G slightly revamped the look of the phone, capacity, 3G wireless, and GPS. That was it, people.
It's funny, Apple is almost doing themselves a disservice by giving away 3.0 to all iPhone users, which is a MAJOR MAJOR upgrade. In itself it's such a great upgrade, it's "enough" for many users right now. But it's kind of hiding the fact that the 3G S is quite a big upgrade itself, beyond the 3.0 OS.
What he goes on to list as faults are all reasonable criticisms. But sentences like I quoted above probably originate from a subconscious urge to jerk people's chain and drive up his article's click-count by being controversial.
OOOoooOOOooohhH, how I hate the media and its manipulators. These "appleinsider"s should be citing independent sources instead of BIG media (*insider* sounds out-of-the-box, unlike BIG media). Of course Apple only gives preview devices to BIG media (do they??). The internats is really turning to the "new TV" _rogeriogal faints_
… and when I say BIG, I mean HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE fucker media empires (+their minions)…
Comments
My problem is, the new iPhone OS 3.0 already make my iphone much faster.
So how much of performance different will we see with S?
Double the ram and 50% quicker clock speed ain't nothing to scoff at.
So. Tempting. Must. Resit.
...
finally, the pre's multitasking is great idea, but that's all it is until it has the same caliber apps to multitask with! only if it has...
Well, based on what I've read from a variety of different reviewers, the Palm Pre's battery life can be really bad, especially when running things in the background like IM. With what reviewers described as "moderate use", they were having to plug-in before dinner time...
Double the ram and 50% quicker clock speed ain't nothing to scoff at.
So. Tempting. Must. Resit.
I don't want to single you out, but It drives me crazy that so many people don't acknowledge the fact that the 3GS is NOT just a clockspeed bump!
The 600Mhz Cortex-A8 in the 3GS is compatible with, but totally different to the 412mhz ARM11 in the iPhone 3G. It is similar in raw computational ability to a 1000-1200Mhz ARM11. Applications, especially games and web browsing, should run much faster and smoother. Application launch time
will decrease, but it won't show you the full capability of the chip because launch time is probably held back by other variables like the storage system.
Saying that the iPhone 3GS is just a 50% clock speed bump is like saying that a 1.5 Ghz Core 2 Solo is only a 50% bump up from a 1.0Ghz Intel Atom.
I don't want to single you out, but It drives me crazy that so many people don't acknowledge the fact that the 3GS is NOT just a clockspeed bump!
The 600Mhz Cortex-A8 in the 3GS is compatible with, but totally different to the 412mhz ARM11 in the iPhone 3G. It is similar in raw computational ability to a 1000-1200Mhz ARM11. Applications, especially games and web browsing, should run much faster and smoother. Application launch time
will decrease, but it won't show you the full capability of the chip because launch time is probably held back by other variables like the storage system.
Saying that the iPhone 3GS is just a 50% clock speed bump is like saying that a 1.5 Ghz Core 2 Solo is only a 50% bump up from a 1.0Ghz Intel Atom.
You're likely to have a long life of frustration then. Almost nobody knows what chip is inside their phone, let alone the architectural differences and how those translate into real world performance for each type of task. This is especially the case when apple is purposefully trying to portray a unified platform.
I've yet to see real-world bench marks from independent testers. So until then... 50% higher clockspeed.
CNET did and says it still does- SUCK.
call quality and 3G reception still need improvement.
THE BAD: The iPhone 3G S' call quality shows no improvements and the 3G signal reception remains uneven
.... it must still SUCK.
CNET did and says it still does- SUCK.
just a note about reception:
i was in the USA (San Francisco) last month, brought my iphone with me, reception/dropped calls was terrible compared to here in Germany. so i guess it's a network issue rather than the device itself...
just a note about reception:
i was in the USA (San Francisco) last month, brought my iphone with me, reception/dropped calls was terrible compared to here in Germany. so i guess it's a network issue rather than the device itself...
You are absolutely right. It is all about AT&T here in the states. They are really rock bottom here and it will only get worse now that they have increased their 3G phones tenfold.
NYC is the worse. Friends have to literally stick their heads near a window to get calls.
Oh well- one day. Congrats to you Europeans though- enjoy!
Oh well- one day. Congrats to you Europeans though- enjoy!
i do not know much about who owns which network in the USA and which tech the employ, here we were lucky that the japanese (DoCoMo) bought a stake in the provider and updated all the hardware on the network. ever since reception has been pretty good.
so good luck to you, hope ATT doesn't ruin the fun for you :-)
Take care
D
Mossberg says:
"and it can't compete with phones like Nokia's new $700 N97, which has a 5-megapixel camera with zoom."
First of all, the N97 DOES NOT have a real (i.e. optical) zoom -- it has the ridiculous and worthless feature of "digital zoom" aka "crop & interpolate" which destroys image quality.
Additionally, the camera len/sensor may indeed be superior (it should be based on the thickness of that phone), but I have to wonder if Mossberg is actually comparing the real quality of the images versus suggesting "it must be better with 5MP".
"Video recording works well, but the iPhone doesn't take HD movies and its quality pales in comparison to the popular $229 Flip pocket camcorder."
WHAT? First of all, I have only heard of one cell phone that can record "HD" video (Samsung i8910), so it's obviously not a common feature. More importantly, it is a completely POINTLESS non-feature considering the crappy lenses and tiny sensors that can fit in an iPhone-size device.
And how about comparing the video quality to the iPhone's smartphone *COMPETITORS*, not some dedicated video recorder. Of COURSE it would be better, even a $150 digital camera should be able to take better video. It's a cellphone FFS!
Mossberg has been so whacked around and abused by anti-iPhonists that he probably feels compelled to make some silly statements like these. I think the poor guy (and David Pogue at NYT too, for that matter) is rattled by all the venom he generates whenever he says decent things about Apple.
Mossberg has been so whacked around and abused by anti-iPhonists that he probably feels compelled to make some silly statements like these. I think the poor guy (and David Pogue at NYT too, for that matter) is rattled by all the venom he generates whenever he says decent things about Apple.
Mossberg is an Apple Fanboy- would you expect otherwise?
Pogue on the other hand is much more objective.
Well, based on what I've read from a variety of different reviewers, the Palm Pre's battery life can be really bad, especially when running things in the background like IM. With what reviewers described as "moderate use", they were having to plug-in before dinner time...
The Pre's battery issue with IM is a bug that Palm has acknowledged and has promised to fix. I certainly wouldn't use this as a deciding factor to upgrade my 3G to a 3GS or a Pre.
I've yet to see real-world bench marks from independent testers. So until then... 50% higher clockspeed.
He makes a valid point. By your reckoning, PCs haven?t gotten much faster for years as they?re mostly still in the 2-3GHz range. I certainly wouldn?t take a 3Ghz P4 over a 2GHz Xeon.
There will be plenty of testing going on shortly. AnandTech posted a preliminary test for the iPhone 3G and Palm Pre. I?m guessing he?s waiting for the 3GS, which is more inline with the Pre?s HW to complete his tests. Before his comes out (since he is usually very thorough) we?ll see plenty of benchmarks and comparisons from other sources sprouting up all weekend.
The Pre's battery issue with IM is a bug that Palm has acknowledged and has promised to fix. I certainly wouldn't use this as a deciding factor to upgrade my 3G to a 3GS or a Pre.
While that is true, it certainly does justify Apple?s decision to not allow background 3rd-party apps. Note that Palm is also working on a Push Notification Server for WebOS. PN can?t do everything, but it can do a lot and save CPU, RAM and by extension your battery in the process.
PS: I look forward to the jailbreaking of the iPhone 3GS to see how much RAM is available to developers. I can?t help but think that Apple is working on a method for allowing a limited number of background apps. This will likely require Apple to regulate that the app uses up to a certain amount of RAM and CPU while running in the background, this way iPhone developers won?t have to waste their time developing for the potential of a background app affecting how their app runs in the foreground. It?s easy to just let your apps run free and not care how they affect the user experience, but it take some effort to work out the logistical issue and then code for it. Even the Palm Pre with its Cortex A8 and only using webcode for it?s apps have shown a dramatic slowdown in testing when too many apps are running in the background.
He makes a valid point. By your reckoning, PCs haven’t gotten much faster for years as they’re mostly still in the 2-3GHz range. I certainly wouldn’t take a 3Ghz P4 over a 2GHz Xeon.
There will be plenty of testing going on shortly. AnandTech posted a preliminary test for the iPhone 3G and Palm Pre. I’m guessing he’s waiting for the 3GS, which is more inline with the Pre’s HW to complete his tests. Before his comes out (since he is usually very thorough) we’ll see plenty of benchmarks and comparisons from other sources sprouting up all weekend.
The point is valid, but it isn't in contradiction to mine. And please don't put words in my mouth.
Nowhere is anyone claiming that architectural differences should be ignored. It's just that they haven't been written about and tied to iphone performance figures yet. What are we supposed to do, not mention the clock speed increase? Would that really be an improvement?
The point is valid, but it isn't in contradiction to mine. And please don't put words in my mouth.
Nowhere is anyone claiming that architectural differences should be ignored. It's just that they haven't been written about and tied to iphone performance figures yet. What are we supposed to do, not mention the clock speed increase? Would that really be an improvement?
Gotcha! I did come into the thread at post #25. Too many articles and posts to read everything some days.
While we don?t know the CPU at this point I think it?s safe bet to say it?s the Cortex A8. There is just no other commercial option that will allow for double the performance while also reducing the battery.
I really hope you're not planning on becoming a professional grammar nazi!
"As well as" would imply that there's some multitasking happening with the new iPhone -- besides music playback, email check, and phone services, "non existent" should be the only term applied to the iPhone.
.
Maybe you should actually READ the article, " " means you quote something someone else wrote, he wrote that, I called out that he was implying that there was multi-tasking.
Wow new products really bring out the winners on the internet don't they.
Nice try tough guy, but you proved that you are quick to judge and while trying to prove your eManhood you failed, goodbye.
I'm surprised that all reviewers seem to be missing a major feature of the new iPhone, and really a very obvious one...
32GB!
Yes, uh, many of us do indeed use our iPhones as our iPods nowadays, and yes, for many of us, the jump from 16GB to 32GB shifts the iPhone from "just being adequate capacity-wise to use as your iPod" to "definitely fine for all my iPod needs".
This is big, people!
On top of that, the totally revamped processor & video chip, (presumably) upped RAM, much better camera w/ video, voice control, compass, improved battery life, considerably faster wireless chip (will be useful in 1-2 years in the USA).
This is by far a bigger update than was iPhone to iPhone 3G. iPhone 3G slightly revamped the look of the phone, capacity, 3G wireless, and GPS. That was it, people.
It's funny, Apple is almost doing themselves a disservice by giving away 3.0 to all iPhone users, which is a MAJOR MAJOR upgrade. In itself it's such a great upgrade, it's "enough" for many users right now. But it's kind of hiding the fact that the 3G S is quite a big upgrade itself, beyond the 3.0 OS.
What he goes on to list as faults are all reasonable criticisms. But sentences like I quoted above probably originate from a subconscious urge to jerk people's chain and drive up his article's click-count by being controversial.
OOOoooOOOooohhH, how I hate the media and its manipulators. These "appleinsider"s should be citing independent sources instead of BIG media (*insider* sounds out-of-the-box, unlike BIG media). Of course Apple only gives preview devices to BIG media (do they??). The internats is really turning to the "new TV"
… and when I say BIG, I mean HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE fucker media empires (+their minions)…
Ultimately, i've read that, that wont ever be the case because it lacks a good SDK AND the only code allowed for apps is web based code (html/java)
You mean just like Apple's original stance of iPhone development until they realized what a horrible idea it was and quickly changed their minds?
Palm will do the same.
Double the ram and 50% quicker clock speed ain't nothing to scoff at.
So. Tempting. Must. Resit.
1. Buy 32 GB 3GS in new contract for $299.
2. Swap sims to put your old number on 3GS.
3. Kill old July 11, 2008 contract for $120.
4. Place ad in Craig's List to sell 16 GB 3G for $399.
New 16GB 3GS off contract is $599
Total cost to own new 32GB 3GS = $20