Course you know that Palm INVENTED the touch screen with their Palm Pilots and owns all patents related to single-touch. Check your dates buddy.
According to my timeline the Newton (1993) predated the Pilot (1996) by 3 years. The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then-Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI’s X-Files division. My memory is infallible.
Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.
I also note that, while the app load speed on the pre is lagging, they're a 1st gen product AND OS, so to be in competition at all is a feat. Additionally, they have been updating the OS regularly (including one announced today), so we'll see if those things improve.
Thirdly, I note that the comparisons done today were only for Wifi and app load times - what is conspicuously missing are the 3g/EDGE tests of page loads and email and such. Since the 3gs is currently crippled by ATT's inferior network, in real world tests (such as the recent one at cnet), the pre actually outperforms the iphone in communication speed in many real world applications.
And what you can't measure easily is the fun and gain in usability that multi-tasking on the pre gives you. Battery life aside, multi tasking also has realworld usefulness, and going back to the modular approach of the iphone can feel like going backwards in functionality.
But I admit, the 3gs is a fine phone, and the apps are smoooth, and the slightly bigger screen is nice, despite the relativly clunky size it gives the iphone.
All in all, I don't think it's a slam dunk for either phone. They both are great, they both have room for improvement. Fanboys from both sides love to claim victory. I think the real victor is the consumer, who gets increased innovation and lower price due to the REAL competition of the pre, and I hope that RIM and Android can step it up too.
Your long post says nothing. It blows more than the Pre.
The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI?s X-File?s division. My memory is infallible.
More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.
That all depends on the apps. If all that is needed is an IM app to run in the background then Push Notifications are more ideal than an IM app running constantly in the background, and if the only games they play are non-GPU intensive, like chess and suduko, then the Pre or many other cheaper smartphones may be more ideal.
PS: Palm is also implementing a Push Notification Server. While PN can do a lot they can’t do everything so the option for background apps is nice. I have a feeling that Apple is working on the logistics of allowing background apps as we speak. The "Apple way" is to make the allowance a non-hinderance to the user experience, which means allowing the active, foreground app to run virtually the same with the background app still in memory and using CPU cycles
It seems like the 256MB RAM and other HW will be enough now for that capability, but Apple isn’t using webpages for their apps so some logistical planning is needed to do it right. You can find forums and blogs where Android developers are having a tough time dealing with background apps sucking up the resources, thus keeping their app from working correctly in the foreground.
Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.
.
Just a speed boost. So you don't care about having a faster processor, and more ram? You must still be using a LCII.
I would refine that and say if you want to multi-task web apps go Pre, if you want 50,000 full Objective-C/ OpenGL apps go iPhone.
Is there a person who wants 50000 applications..? Me, I'd be happy with 5-10 good ones.
Strange how no one remembers iPhone didn't have 50000 applications when first released, and still managed to beat Palm Treo line that did have numerous applications - and some of them very useful.
iPhone has 50000 apps because it was selling so well without apps that platform eventually became interesting for developers. I think same rules will work for any other device. Good phone will sell itself initially, and additional apps will bring more functionality and keep it actual down the time line.
I would refine that and say if you want to multi-task web apps go Pre, if you want 50,000 full Objective-C/ OpenGL apps go iPhone.
This.
It remains to be seen what kind of heavy lifting the WebOS is capable of, but it seems unlikely that it will be able to match the depth and range of what can happen on the iPhone.
For people who just want a communications device, that's not a problem; it might become a problem as Apple continues to refine the iPhone OS to match or exceed what anyone else is doing while still keeping the OS X underpinnings that allow ever more flexibility and power.
It's funny, though, that once upon a time Macs sucked because they didn't have any games, and now the iPhone sucks because it has too many.
Is there a person who wants 50000 applications..? Me, I'd be happy with 5-10 good ones.
Well of course no one person will use all of those apps. The point is their is a wide choice.
Quote:
Strange how no one remembers iPhone didn't have 50000 applications when first released, and still managed to beat Palm Treo line that did have numerous applications - and some of them very useful.
When the original iPhone was introduced the Treo was already old and outdated.
Quote:
iPhone has 50000 apps because it was selling so well without apps that platform eventually became interesting for developers. I think same rules will work for any other device. Good phone will sell itself initially, and additional apps will bring more functionality and keep it actual down the time line.
Along with the phone selling well, you need a great platform that developers like to use.
I don't want to take away from your comment, as I think it's a true statement, but I am really curious about what everybody wants to multitask.
I can only think of a couple but I don't see a "super necessity" for it:
Listen to Pandora (some other radio app) while doing something else (checking e-mail, browsing the web, etc.).
How many other things can you do at the same time on a phone?
If allowed for the iPod app to sync the radio stations and got the carriers to be okay with audio streaming then I think most people?s background app needs (at least the one most commonly expressed) will have been met.
I?ve noticed that even on the iPhone 3G with it?s measly 128MB RAM, that Safari doesn?t reload pages nearly as often under v3.0 as it did in v2.x. Of course, it depends on what iPhone OS X apps you have running in the background and how many pages you have open, but anecdotally speaking there is a definite improvement over how often it refreshes a page when I go in and out of Safari.
Its already known webOS cannot match the depth and range of development on the iPhone.
Too many games make the iPhone suck, I'd never heard that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
It remains to be seen what kind of heavy lifting the WebOS is capable of, but it seems unlikely that it will be able to match the depth and range of what can happen on the iPhone.
It's funny, though, that once upon a time Macs sucked because they didn't have any games, and now the iPhone sucks because it has too many.
Too many games make the iPhone suck, I'd never heard that.
It’s been stated on these forums several times (and probably elsewhere) that Apple’s focus on games means that they are only interested in a making a toy, not a serious device. Also, something about the App Store being dominated by games. Silly comments.
Yeah, I love my Iphone 3G S....but these speed figures are far from the truth.
I had the pre for 10 days and can tell you it downloaded 5-6 sites I regularly use on wifi...significantly faster than this phone does right now....by a lot...and consistantly!
And the efficiency of navigation on that device is industry leading at this point.
The universal search is TRULY, universal for example...includes bookmarks, and message content. You can, on any page just start typing letters and be prompted to google searches, or urls...it's great.
The whole package is, unfortunately just not Iphone..but they've taken what was Iphone's ace in the whole: Interface elegance...and eaten Apples lunch.
Yeah, I love my Iphone 3G S....but these speed figures are far from the truth.
I had the pre for 10 days and can tell you it downloaded 5-6 sites I regularly use on wifi...significantly faster than this phone does right now....by a lot...and consistantly!
And the efficiency of navigation on that device is industry leading at this point.
The universal search is TRULY, universal for example...includes bookmarks, and message content. You can, on any page just start typing letters and be prompted to google searches, or urls...it's great.
The whole package is, unfortunately just not Iphone..but they've taken what was Iphone's ace in the whole: Interface elegance...and eaten Apples lunch.
Preciously speaking, Palm presumed that if they made a preemptive presence before the preliminary 2009 iPhone preamble they would have a pretty precious lead, but they pre-released the Pre before it was a real predator which prevented the Pre from prevailing despite Palm’s McNamee presumptuous preaching of the iPhone’s predoom and the Pre’s preeminence.
This sounds as pitiful as Mac vs Windows 95....the companies keep getting richer and are both still around at least for now, only differnece is you all have an easy multiuser interface to bitch back and forth to each other....get a phone/mobile devce that suits your lifestyle and try to be content and not competitive...but I can't help saying.....
iphone....you've been 'promoted' from the risk taker to a 'steppford' conservative! (I'm still enamored by the original classic iphone owners)
According to my timeline the Newton (1993) predated the Pilot (1996) by 3 years. The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then-Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI’s X-Files division. My memory is infallible.
Whipper snappers! My Sharp Wizard in 1990 had a touch screen, and it didn't need no stinkin stylus, either!
The Newton was revolutionary in capabilities, but the Pilot provided accessibility. Palm won that one. Pre tries to be the kitchen sink. Kitchen sinks sound good until you see the joy of using a device that does the main things you need really well.
With landscape keyboard in OS3.0, I finally have what I longed for since the fateful keynote. It is pretty hard to beat the iPhone now, unless you are trying to drive and type...
Comments
Those numbers are geek stuff. You very different packages here. Few deal-breakers:
- If you really want a hardware keyboard, iPhone is a no-go.
- If you want anything but US keyboard, Pre is a no-go.
- If you have one iPhone app you really like, Pre is a not an option.
- If you want an established product you should consider iPhone against the Pre.
- If you are on Sprint iPhone is not an option.
Palm engineers deserve a credit for their work on the Pre. But overall it can not compete against the iPhone IMO. Let's discuss this one year from nowMore importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.
Course you know that Palm INVENTED the touch screen with their Palm Pilots and owns all patents related to single-touch. Check your dates buddy.
According to my timeline the Newton (1993) predated the Pilot (1996) by 3 years. The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then-Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI’s X-Files division. My memory is infallible.
Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.
I also note that, while the app load speed on the pre is lagging, they're a 1st gen product AND OS, so to be in competition at all is a feat. Additionally, they have been updating the OS regularly (including one announced today), so we'll see if those things improve.
Thirdly, I note that the comparisons done today were only for Wifi and app load times - what is conspicuously missing are the 3g/EDGE tests of page loads and email and such. Since the 3gs is currently crippled by ATT's inferior network, in real world tests (such as the recent one at cnet), the pre actually outperforms the iphone in communication speed in many real world applications.
And what you can't measure easily is the fun and gain in usability that multi-tasking on the pre gives you. Battery life aside, multi tasking also has realworld usefulness, and going back to the modular approach of the iphone can feel like going backwards in functionality.
But I admit, the 3gs is a fine phone, and the apps are smoooth, and the slightly bigger screen is nice, despite the relativly clunky size it gives the iphone.
All in all, I don't think it's a slam dunk for either phone. They both are great, they both have room for improvement. Fanboys from both sides love to claim victory. I think the real victor is the consumer, who gets increased innovation and lower price due to the REAL competition of the pre, and I hope that RIM and Android can step it up too.
Your long post says nothing. It blows more than the Pre.
More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.
The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI?s X-File?s division. My memory is infallible.
More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.
That all depends on the apps. If all that is needed is an IM app to run in the background then Push Notifications are more ideal than an IM app running constantly in the background, and if the only games they play are non-GPU intensive, like chess and suduko, then the Pre or many other cheaper smartphones may be more ideal.
PS: Palm is also implementing a Push Notification Server. While PN can do a lot they can’t do everything so the option for background apps is nice. I have a feeling that Apple is working on the logistics of allowing background apps as we speak. The "Apple way" is to make the allowance a non-hinderance to the user experience, which means allowing the active, foreground app to run virtually the same with the background app still in memory and using CPU cycles
It seems like the 256MB RAM and other HW will be enough now for that capability, but Apple isn’t using webpages for their apps so some logistical planning is needed to do it right. You can find forums and blogs where Android developers are having a tough time dealing with background apps sucking up the resources, thus keeping their app from working correctly in the foreground.
Palm was, of course, smart not to wait, but to challenge the iphone, whose 3gs was not much of an innovation over the 3g, just a speed boost. To wait longer would have given apple a further lead in marketshare.
.
Just a speed boost. So you don't care about having a faster processor, and more ram? You must still be using a LCII.
I would refine that and say if you want to multi-task web apps go Pre, if you want 50,000 full Objective-C/ OpenGL apps go iPhone.
Is there a person who wants 50000 applications..? Me, I'd be happy with 5-10 good ones.
Strange how no one remembers iPhone didn't have 50000 applications when first released, and still managed to beat Palm Treo line that did have numerous applications - and some of them very useful.
iPhone has 50000 apps because it was selling so well without apps that platform eventually became interesting for developers. I think same rules will work for any other device. Good phone will sell itself initially, and additional apps will bring more functionality and keep it actual down the time line.
I would refine that and say if you want to multi-task web apps go Pre, if you want 50,000 full Objective-C/ OpenGL apps go iPhone.
This.
It remains to be seen what kind of heavy lifting the WebOS is capable of, but it seems unlikely that it will be able to match the depth and range of what can happen on the iPhone.
For people who just want a communications device, that's not a problem; it might become a problem as Apple continues to refine the iPhone OS to match or exceed what anyone else is doing while still keeping the OS X underpinnings that allow ever more flexibility and power.
It's funny, though, that once upon a time Macs sucked because they didn't have any games, and now the iPhone sucks because it has too many.
More importantly to me... If you want to multitask; you go Pre. You want games; you go iPhone.
I don't want to take away from your comment, as I think it's a true statement, but I am really curious about what everybody wants to multitask.
I can only think of a couple but I don't see a "super necessity" for it:
Listen to Pandora (some other radio app) while doing something else (checking e-mail, browsing the web, etc.).
How many other things can you do at the same time on a phone?
Is there a person who wants 50000 applications..? Me, I'd be happy with 5-10 good ones.
Well of course no one person will use all of those apps. The point is their is a wide choice.
Strange how no one remembers iPhone didn't have 50000 applications when first released, and still managed to beat Palm Treo line that did have numerous applications - and some of them very useful.
When the original iPhone was introduced the Treo was already old and outdated.
iPhone has 50000 apps because it was selling so well without apps that platform eventually became interesting for developers. I think same rules will work for any other device. Good phone will sell itself initially, and additional apps will bring more functionality and keep it actual down the time line.
Along with the phone selling well, you need a great platform that developers like to use.
I don't want to take away from your comment, as I think it's a true statement, but I am really curious about what everybody wants to multitask.
I can only think of a couple but I don't see a "super necessity" for it:
Listen to Pandora (some other radio app) while doing something else (checking e-mail, browsing the web, etc.).
How many other things can you do at the same time on a phone?
If allowed for the iPod app to sync the radio stations and got the carriers to be okay with audio streaming then I think most people?s background app needs (at least the one most commonly expressed) will have been met.
I?ve noticed that even on the iPhone 3G with it?s measly 128MB RAM, that Safari doesn?t reload pages nearly as often under v3.0 as it did in v2.x. Of course, it depends on what iPhone OS X apps you have running in the background and how many pages you have open, but anecdotally speaking there is a definite improvement over how often it refreshes a page when I go in and out of Safari.
Too many games make the iPhone suck, I'd never heard that.
It remains to be seen what kind of heavy lifting the WebOS is capable of, but it seems unlikely that it will be able to match the depth and range of what can happen on the iPhone.
It's funny, though, that once upon a time Macs sucked because they didn't have any games, and now the iPhone sucks because it has too many.
Too many games make the iPhone suck, I'd never heard that.
It’s been stated on these forums several times (and probably elsewhere) that Apple’s focus on games means that they are only interested in a making a toy, not a serious device. Also, something about the App Store being dominated by games. Silly comments.
I had the pre for 10 days and can tell you it downloaded 5-6 sites I regularly use on wifi...significantly faster than this phone does right now....by a lot...and consistantly!
And the efficiency of navigation on that device is industry leading at this point.
The universal search is TRULY, universal for example...includes bookmarks, and message content. You can, on any page just start typing letters and be prompted to google searches, or urls...it's great.
The whole package is, unfortunately just not Iphone..but they've taken what was Iphone's ace in the whole: Interface elegance...and eaten Apples lunch.
Whatever happened to that other "iPhone"?
Yeah, I love my Iphone 3G S....but these speed figures are far from the truth.
I had the pre for 10 days and can tell you it downloaded 5-6 sites I regularly use on wifi...significantly faster than this phone does right now....by a lot...and consistantly!
And the efficiency of navigation on that device is industry leading at this point.
The universal search is TRULY, universal for example...includes bookmarks, and message content. You can, on any page just start typing letters and be prompted to google searches, or urls...it's great.
The whole package is, unfortunately just not Iphone..but they've taken what was Iphone's ace in the whole: Interface elegance...and eaten Apples lunch.
Did you return your pre?
If so, why?
Whatever happened to that other "iPhone"?
Preciously speaking, Palm presumed that if they made a preemptive presence before the preliminary 2009 iPhone preamble they would have a pretty precious lead, but they pre-released the Pre before it was a real predator which prevented the Pre from prevailing despite Palm’s McNamee presumptuous preaching of the iPhone’s predoom and the Pre’s preeminence.
iphone....you've been 'promoted' from the risk taker to a 'steppford' conservative! (I'm still enamored by the original classic iphone owners)
pre - you're the new risk taker (good luck!)
According to my timeline the Newton (1993) predated the Pilot (1996) by 3 years. The term PDA is also reportedly coined by then-Apple CEO John Sculley before his sex change and joining of the FBI’s X-Files division. My memory is infallible.
Whipper snappers! My Sharp Wizard in 1990 had a touch screen, and it didn't need no stinkin stylus, either!
The Newton was revolutionary in capabilities, but the Pilot provided accessibility. Palm won that one. Pre tries to be the kitchen sink. Kitchen sinks sound good until you see the joy of using a device that does the main things you need really well.
With landscape keyboard in OS3.0, I finally have what I longed for since the fateful keynote. It is pretty hard to beat the iPhone now, unless you are trying to drive and type...