Sadly, many people, not just "kids these days," fail to type/write (whether texting, emailing or whatever) in complete, grammatically correct, sentences with proper spelling and punctuation. People's aversion to T9, or their preference for multi-tapping keys on a number pad (or maybe just their own laziness) seemed to be making the growing problem worse. The iPhone's auto-correction feature seems to help a lot though. At least, I hope it is. Honestly, the farther away from proper English it is, the more tedious, difficult (or even painful) it is to read.
We will, occasionally, get someone here who posts in that manner. Even though, because of my daughter, I'm fairly familiar with it, I'm not comfortable with it, and I, along with most others here, I resent it when they do post that way. We let them know that it isn't proper.
So what going to happen to these old phones, they are going to turn into hand me downs before you know it.
Like in my case, the wife will upgrade, since she maxed out the current iPhone and wants more power that 3.0 and 3G (S) will offer her. The question is what do we do with the current iphone, obvious one of the kids want it, but I am not interested in paying $70 a month for them to use, so I considering cracking it and add it as an $9.99 phone on the wife plan, they do not need all the data anyway.
I think you will see more an more of this and you do not have data plan part of the value of the phone goes away.
This is the interesting dynamic as you note. The purpose of pushing smartphones that now (refurbished) run as little as $79 subsidized is to promote the very expensive data plans that go with them. Second tier providers and much smaller companies are offering unlimited everything plans at various amounts. A second front might be MMS message size and dumb phones. Most message limits right now are about 300-500k. If a provider like Verizon or T-Mobile knocked this up considerably, it might further undermine the value proposition of a data plan further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey
You may have just hit on the method Apple will use to market the iPhone to the big corporate bosses.
"Switch away from BlackBerry and your employees will have to listen to you during your meetings! " "No more wondering what their hands are doing under the boardroom table! (and who wants to think about that, anyway?)"
The fortune 500 will drop like flies now...
I think it has more to do with age than anything else. I've watched the kids type in all manners across all sort of phones, all at ridiculous speeds. They'll figure out the touch screens just as easily. I've already watched a young teen girl use the same phone I have, LG Dare, to type some insanely long message at crazy speeds using T9 without even looking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64
Gee I see kids typing out msgs on numeric keypads phone while it is in their pockets, it can be done. I even witness a girl driving down the road typing out a msg without looking at the phone or taking her eyes off the road, I was amazed, but made sure I stayed clear of her.
Most kids do not type in full sentences or full word to be exact... if they get a few letters or words wrong that is okay with them.
They can do much more than a few words. My wife works at the middle school level and I have friends at all levels of education. If a kid has a hand in their pocket or below the level of their desk, they are texting PERIOD. They can easily do it in a purse, backpack or pocket. They can type whatever they want and do it at ridiculous speeds, often without looking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2
Well, yeah. It's not a simple thing given that the success of either is sort of pushing the success of it's own competition. The "smartphone" market is booming in general and RIM is in fact growing as you say.
I was just making an entirely subjective observation based on what I see on my train every day. Over the last year or so the iPhone has been gradually replacing the Blackberry (as something I see people using on the train to the University), to the point that it seems roughly 50/50 right now. Given that I'm in Canada and the iPhone wasn't available a year ago I think it's pretty remarkable, but my town is a big tech town and it is the train to the University so take it with the appropriate giant grains of salt.
They might be iPod touches as well. My friend just tried out the iPod Touch combo with the Mifi from Verizon and really loves the combo. In fact the Mifi is a very interesting little wrinkle in all these discussions. Having used it with my laptop it is really a possible game changer.
Except that it's all too easy to hear the texting... it's so obnoxious when you can hear every time they push one of the keys down, especially in a meeting.
well, not always, lots of physical keyboards are very silent, my last sony was totally silent, no type tone but also no sound from the actual key being pressed.
on a similar note, i do find it a little annoying when iphone users have the 'keyboard clicks' activated and volume up... sitting in a cafe reading the paper and hearing this morse-code like clicking is pretty irritating.
do any of you actually find the 'keyboard clicks' option useful while typing a message?
well, not always, lots of physical keyboards are very silent, my last sony was totally silent, no type tone but also no sound from the actual key being pressed.
on a similar note, i do find it a little annoying when iphone users have the 'keyboard clicks' activated and volume up... sitting in a cafe reading the paper and hearing this morse-code like clicking is pretty irritating.
do any of you actually find the 'keyboard clicks' option useful while typing a message?
I kept it on at first, because I kept reading about how important some feedback was with virtual keyboards. But after a week or so, I turned it off. Feedback isn't required at all, other than the characters popping up above the keyboard. Sound and haptic feedback is overrated, and can sometimes confuse you by making you think that you've tapped the correct key when you've tapped an incorrect one.
After all, what does it do? It just tells you that you hit an actual key, rather than the space between. But as you see the letter, or the words forming, you don't need it. It serves no purpose.
I kept it on at first, because I kept reading about how important some feedback was with virtual keyboards. But after a week or so, I turned it off. Feedback isn't required at all, other than the characters popping up above the keyboard. Sound and haptic feedback is overrated, and can sometimes confuse you by making you think that you've tapped the correct key when you've tapped an incorrect one.
After all, what does it do? It just tells you that you hit an actual key, rather than the space between. But as you see the letter, or the words forming, you don't need it. It serves no purpose.
i find the noises useful - for example i often notice that only 4 clicks registered when the word i was typing should have 5...i'm usually looking at the keyboard and not always the words as they are appearing in the text field.
i find the noises useful - for example i often notice that only 4 clicks registered when the word i was typing should have 5...i'm usually looking at the keyboard and not always the words as they are appearing in the text field.
I find that as the keyboard and the screen re so close to another, I can easily see both at the same time, or at least, glance at the screen a small fraction of a second after I've typed the letter.
I find that the landscape keyboard is much faster for me, though not all agree on that.
Sure, it varies. I have over 10 GB left on mine, my wife has got almost all of the 14 GB, and my daughter has got about 4 GB left.
I have 10GB left out of 32GiB. That allows me my entire music library and even the local copy of Wikipedia (2GB), in case I am not connected to the internet. I haven?t synced over much video but there is still plenty of room for that. I do think that by the time 64GiB comes around I?ll be ready for the jump.
I have 10GB left out of 32GiB. That allows me my entire music library and even the local copy of Wikipedia (2GB), in case I am not connected to the internet. I haven’t synced over much video but there is still plenty of room for that. I do think that by the time 64GiB comes around I’ll be ready for the jump.
I discovered years ago that I'm not much of a portable music player fan. I bought a Creative Nomad at a Boston Macworld (at least I think it was at Boston and not New York). Expensive for such a little thing, and the Smartmedia 64 MB card was expensive too.
Using it on the street (it NEEDED a tuner, because the card only held one album at 128 Kbs) wasn't great. I'm somewhat distracted walking down the street as it is most of the time, and this just made it worse. Beautiful device though. I still have it.
i find the noises useful - for example i often notice that only 4 clicks registered when the word i was typing should have 5...i'm usually looking at the keyboard and not always the words as they are appearing in the text field.
hmmmm.... not arguing with you here -> we all have different preferences; but isn't it just as useful to check which letter appears when you touch the screen? this way you have visual feedback that <1 touch = 1 letter>, and so you can't make a mistake with the numbers of letters?
Basically similar to entering passwords - checking each letter before it gets replaced by a symbol - just faster.
In addition: the text area and keyboard are so close together, that i have time to check what the auto correct suggests. the clicks won't help me here either....
thanks for your reply, I'm just wondering what benefit the clicks have for users here
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
I am sorry to disagree. Recent data suggests that in this market holding or retaining clients, as they say to stop the churn, is extremely difficult and even with retaining that client the competitive razor thin margins has cut the profit way down. Every carrier except for AT%T has been losing or treading water with their client bases. AT&T has not only retained their high margin heavy data using clients, They have gained clients also in a very down market. Everyone in the financial markets are saying that AT%T has hit a couple of grand slams here.
Your post is a tad confused. AT%T did receive their great reward, 400,000 new clients <if poll is correct>
The data bodes well for AT%T because they GAINED MORE clients that spend 70 to 100 a month on avg. 44% percent who bought are new . ANYWAY this poll was not so good. Lets wait a quarter.
What is great news is that the iphone has created a whole new market excitement that may help all telco's to sell more phones.
VERIZON has gone one step further they are telling people to drop there landlines and go 100% wireless. With a fios bundle <wireless phone/fios /TV > It will be hard to leave verizon after mega fast fios.
Slowly, people I know with Blackberry's are switching over but they seem to be taking their time in doing so
I think in the last year I have seen 15-20 friends around work change to the iPhone but they did so only after their contracts ended up from work-phones.
actually all my old phones (sony k800i, nokia, even the siemens) have little dimples on the JKL key or a bracket around the JKL key
That's funny!
I just checked out my Krazr (which I finally get to get rid of for a 3GS in a couple of weeks!), and it does indeed have a dimple on JKL. Never even noticed it. (and obviously, never found it useful.)
well, not always, lots of physical keyboards are very silent, my last sony was totally silent, no type tone but also no sound from the actual key being pressed.
on a similar note, i do find it a little annoying when iphone users have the 'keyboard clicks' activated and volume up... sitting in a cafe reading the paper and hearing this morse-code like clicking is pretty irritating.
do any of you actually find the 'keyboard clicks' option useful while typing a message?
REcord their clicks with your iphone and then play it back to them.
Slowly, people I know with Blackberry's are switching over but they seem to be taking their time in doing so
i have seen a few transfers from BB to iphone, but interestingly a few friends -early adopters all of them - have gone back to BB. one main reason cited is the lack of display of remaining characters when typing text message. this may seem surreal to some of you, it did when i heard it first, but for many people here in europe business is done by text message, this is not cheap over european borders, and when your message is just 1 character over limit, you pay a full extra message. not a deal breaker for me, i usually send 1 message per trip to my wife, but one friend - music industry person - sends over 3000 texts a month, he says he was paying an extra 500? a month on the iphone because of slightly-too-long-text messages. there were a few other similar reasons, but all say they'd go back to iphones if and when these seemingly minor issues are fixed.
a dimple on JKL. Never even noticed it. (and obviously, never found it useful.)
but maybe, had you noticed the dimple on the JKL key, you would have been far more productive, thus saved lots of time, touch-typed while having more sex in the time you had saved by being more productive, and touch-typed your Casanovian memoirs under the desk during boring meetings... who knows? :-)
The question is how many people use their phones to store vast amounts of music and video? Those who do will always want more storage, but for those who don't, they won't.
A phone isn't like a regular computer—yet. We don't dump all of our junk there and leave it to rot.
The more powerful iPhone 3Gs will obviously spawn larger and more space needing applications and their files.
So to prevent a possible early turnover of their device, I'm remarking that some iPhone owners may be deciding to pick the larger capacity as a insurance against the future. Perhaps based of course on their experience with other Apple products that lived a short life due to a lack of storage.
Comments
Sadly, many people, not just "kids these days," fail to type/write (whether texting, emailing or whatever) in complete, grammatically correct, sentences with proper spelling and punctuation.
We will, occasionally, get someone here who posts in that manner. Even though, because of my daughter, I'm fairly familiar with it, I'm not comfortable with it, and I, along with most others here, I resent it when they do post that way. We let them know that it isn't proper.
So what going to happen to these old phones, they are going to turn into hand me downs before you know it.
Like in my case, the wife will upgrade, since she maxed out the current iPhone and wants more power that 3.0 and 3G (S) will offer her. The question is what do we do with the current iphone, obvious one of the kids want it, but I am not interested in paying $70 a month for them to use, so I considering cracking it and add it as an $9.99 phone on the wife plan, they do not need all the data anyway.
I think you will see more an more of this and you do not have data plan part of the value of the phone goes away.
This is the interesting dynamic as you note. The purpose of pushing smartphones that now (refurbished) run as little as $79 subsidized is to promote the very expensive data plans that go with them. Second tier providers and much smaller companies are offering unlimited everything plans at various amounts. A second front might be MMS message size and dumb phones. Most message limits right now are about 300-500k. If a provider like Verizon or T-Mobile knocked this up considerably, it might further undermine the value proposition of a data plan further.
You may have just hit on the method Apple will use to market the iPhone to the big corporate bosses.
"Switch away from BlackBerry and your employees will have to listen to you during your meetings! "
"No more wondering what their hands are doing under the boardroom table! (and who wants to think about that, anyway?)"
The fortune 500 will drop like flies now...
I think it has more to do with age than anything else. I've watched the kids type in all manners across all sort of phones, all at ridiculous speeds. They'll figure out the touch screens just as easily. I've already watched a young teen girl use the same phone I have, LG Dare, to type some insanely long message at crazy speeds using T9 without even looking.
Gee I see kids typing out msgs on numeric keypads phone while it is in their pockets, it can be done. I even witness a girl driving down the road typing out a msg without looking at the phone or taking her eyes off the road, I was amazed, but made sure I stayed clear of her.
Most kids do not type in full sentences or full word to be exact... if they get a few letters or words wrong that is okay with them.
They can do much more than a few words. My wife works at the middle school level and I have friends at all levels of education. If a kid has a hand in their pocket or below the level of their desk, they are texting PERIOD. They can easily do it in a purse, backpack or pocket. They can type whatever they want and do it at ridiculous speeds, often without looking.
Well, yeah. It's not a simple thing given that the success of either is sort of pushing the success of it's own competition. The "smartphone" market is booming in general and RIM is in fact growing as you say.
I was just making an entirely subjective observation based on what I see on my train every day. Over the last year or so the iPhone has been gradually replacing the Blackberry (as something I see people using on the train to the University), to the point that it seems roughly 50/50 right now. Given that I'm in Canada and the iPhone wasn't available a year ago I think it's pretty remarkable, but my town is a big tech town and it is the train to the University so take it with the appropriate giant grains of salt.
They might be iPod touches as well. My friend just tried out the iPod Touch combo with the Mifi from Verizon and really loves the combo. In fact the Mifi is a very interesting little wrinkle in all these discussions. Having used it with my laptop it is really a possible game changer.
true, some of my colleagues half-full 8GBs, others have spilling-over 16GBs
my 16GB has never been fuller than 30%
Sure, it varies. I have over 10 GB left on mine, my wife has got almost all of the 14 GB, and my daughter has got about 4 GB left.
Except that it's all too easy to hear the texting... it's so obnoxious when you can hear every time they push one of the keys down, especially in a meeting.
well, not always, lots of physical keyboards are very silent, my last sony was totally silent, no type tone but also no sound from the actual key being pressed.
on a similar note, i do find it a little annoying when iphone users have the 'keyboard clicks' activated and volume up... sitting in a cafe reading the paper and hearing this morse-code like clicking is pretty irritating.
do any of you actually find the 'keyboard clicks' option useful while typing a message?
well, not always, lots of physical keyboards are very silent, my last sony was totally silent, no type tone but also no sound from the actual key being pressed.
on a similar note, i do find it a little annoying when iphone users have the 'keyboard clicks' activated and volume up... sitting in a cafe reading the paper and hearing this morse-code like clicking is pretty irritating.
do any of you actually find the 'keyboard clicks' option useful while typing a message?
I kept it on at first, because I kept reading about how important some feedback was with virtual keyboards. But after a week or so, I turned it off. Feedback isn't required at all, other than the characters popping up above the keyboard. Sound and haptic feedback is overrated, and can sometimes confuse you by making you think that you've tapped the correct key when you've tapped an incorrect one.
After all, what does it do? It just tells you that you hit an actual key, rather than the space between. But as you see the letter, or the words forming, you don't need it. It serves no purpose.
I kept it on at first, because I kept reading about how important some feedback was with virtual keyboards. But after a week or so, I turned it off. Feedback isn't required at all, other than the characters popping up above the keyboard. Sound and haptic feedback is overrated, and can sometimes confuse you by making you think that you've tapped the correct key when you've tapped an incorrect one.
After all, what does it do? It just tells you that you hit an actual key, rather than the space between. But as you see the letter, or the words forming, you don't need it. It serves no purpose.
i find the noises useful - for example i often notice that only 4 clicks registered when the word i was typing should have 5...i'm usually looking at the keyboard and not always the words as they are appearing in the text field.
i find the noises useful - for example i often notice that only 4 clicks registered when the word i was typing should have 5...i'm usually looking at the keyboard and not always the words as they are appearing in the text field.
I find that as the keyboard and the screen re so close to another, I can easily see both at the same time, or at least, glance at the screen a small fraction of a second after I've typed the letter.
I find that the landscape keyboard is much faster for me, though not all agree on that.
Sure, it varies. I have over 10 GB left on mine, my wife has got almost all of the 14 GB, and my daughter has got about 4 GB left.
I have 10GB left out of 32GiB. That allows me my entire music library and even the local copy of Wikipedia (2GB), in case I am not connected to the internet. I haven?t synced over much video but there is still plenty of room for that. I do think that by the time 64GiB comes around I?ll be ready for the jump.
I have 10GB left out of 32GiB. That allows me my entire music library and even the local copy of Wikipedia (2GB), in case I am not connected to the internet. I haven’t synced over much video but there is still plenty of room for that. I do think that by the time 64GiB comes around I’ll be ready for the jump.
I discovered years ago that I'm not much of a portable music player fan. I bought a Creative Nomad at a Boston Macworld (at least I think it was at Boston and not New York). Expensive for such a little thing, and the Smartmedia 64 MB card was expensive too.
Using it on the street (it NEEDED a tuner, because the card only held one album at 128 Kbs) wasn't great. I'm somewhat distracted walking down the street as it is most of the time, and this just made it worse. Beautiful device though. I still have it.
i find the noises useful - for example i often notice that only 4 clicks registered when the word i was typing should have 5...i'm usually looking at the keyboard and not always the words as they are appearing in the text field.
hmmmm.... not arguing with you here -> we all have different preferences; but isn't it just as useful to check which letter appears when you touch the screen? this way you have visual feedback that <1 touch = 1 letter>, and so you can't make a mistake with the numbers of letters?
Basically similar to entering passwords - checking each letter before it gets replaced by a symbol - just faster.
In addition: the text area and keyboard are so close together, that i have time to check what the auto correct suggests. the clicks won't help me here either....
thanks for your reply, I'm just wondering what benefit the clicks have for users here
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
I am sorry to disagree. Recent data suggests that in this market holding or retaining clients, as they say to stop the churn, is extremely difficult and even with retaining that client the competitive razor thin margins has cut the profit way down. Every carrier except for AT%T has been losing or treading water with their client bases. AT&T has not only retained their high margin heavy data using clients, They have gained clients also in a very down market. Everyone in the financial markets are saying that AT%T has hit a couple of grand slams here.
Your post is a tad confused. AT%T did receive their great reward, 400,000 new clients <if poll is correct>
The data bodes well for AT%T because they GAINED MORE clients that spend 70 to 100 a month on avg. 44% percent who bought are new . ANYWAY this poll was not so good. Lets wait a quarter.
What is great news is that the iphone has created a whole new market excitement that may help all telco's to sell more phones.
VERIZON has gone one step further they are telling people to drop there landlines and go 100% wireless. With a fios bundle <wireless phone/fios /TV > It will be hard to leave verizon after mega fast fios.
http://www.consumerfiber.com/verizon-fios
peace
9
I think in the last year I have seen 15-20 friends around work change to the iPhone but they did so only after their contracts ended up from work-phones.
actually all my old phones (sony k800i, nokia, even the siemens) have little dimples on the JKL key or a bracket around the JKL key
That's funny!
I just checked out my Krazr (which I finally get to get rid of for a 3GS in a couple of weeks!), and it does indeed have a dimple on JKL. Never even noticed it. (and obviously, never found it useful.)
well, not always, lots of physical keyboards are very silent, my last sony was totally silent, no type tone but also no sound from the actual key being pressed.
on a similar note, i do find it a little annoying when iphone users have the 'keyboard clicks' activated and volume up... sitting in a cafe reading the paper and hearing this morse-code like clicking is pretty irritating.
do any of you actually find the 'keyboard clicks' option useful while typing a message?
REcord their clicks with your iphone and then play it back to them.
9
12% of early iPhone 3G buyers report ditching their BlackBerry]
Wow, they all had one giant Blackberry that they shared?
Wow, they all had one giant Blackberry that they shared?
Why do you think they were ditching it?
No one likes to timeshare their Blackberry.
Slowly, people I know with Blackberry's are switching over but they seem to be taking their time in doing so
i have seen a few transfers from BB to iphone, but interestingly a few friends -early adopters all of them - have gone back to BB. one main reason cited is the lack of display of remaining characters when typing text message. this may seem surreal to some of you, it did when i heard it first, but for many people here in europe business is done by text message, this is not cheap over european borders, and when your message is just 1 character over limit, you pay a full extra message. not a deal breaker for me, i usually send 1 message per trip to my wife, but one friend - music industry person - sends over 3000 texts a month, he says he was paying an extra 500? a month on the iphone because of slightly-too-long-text messages. there were a few other similar reasons, but all say they'd go back to iphones if and when these seemingly minor issues are fixed.
a dimple on JKL. Never even noticed it. (and obviously, never found it useful.)
but maybe, had you noticed the dimple on the JKL key, you would have been far more productive, thus saved lots of time, touch-typed while having more sex in the time you had saved by being more productive, and touch-typed your Casanovian memoirs under the desk during boring meetings... who knows? :-)
The question is how many people use their phones to store vast amounts of music and video? Those who do will always want more storage, but for those who don't, they won't.
A phone isn't like a regular computer—yet. We don't dump all of our junk there and leave it to rot.
The more powerful iPhone 3Gs will obviously spawn larger and more space needing applications and their files.
So to prevent a possible early turnover of their device, I'm remarking that some iPhone owners may be deciding to pick the larger capacity as a insurance against the future. Perhaps based of course on their experience with other Apple products that lived a short life due to a lack of storage.