Windows 7 priced below Vista, to allow upgrades from XP

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  • Reply 121 of 197
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    what's sad is that this truly is the mentality of a lot of people. Really, it doesn't matter if it's a custom machine or a dell, individual components like the ram and cpu CAN be upgraded, and provide such an increase in performance that it feels like it's a different machine.



    I used to get so pissed when my mom would randomly inform me of her new dell purchase. She did that to me about 3 times before I finally said, look, mom, if you buy another dell I will run away! Then she let me build her a system, and she's been loving it ever since. In fact, when I buy Windows 7, I'll be purchasing some extra ram for her to go along with it lol.



    Or how about the many people that buy a new machine because theres has gotten so slow, yet a reinstall of the OS and/or cleaning up of installed apps running in the background will resolve their issues?
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  • Reply 122 of 197
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Or how about the many people that buy a new machine because theres has gotten so slow, yet a reinstall of the OS and/or cleaning up of installed apps running in the background will resolve their issues?



    Yep, that's a major problem, and there's definitely ways to keep things clean. When people tell me their system is so slow, it takes me maybe an hour at best and it's running much faster. There's free software out there that will optimize and defrag the registry and clean temporary files, but there's also automatic hdd defrag software I recommend to everyone called Diskeeper. I bought this, installed it about 4 years ago with an install of XP, and the system runs as snappy as it did from day one.



    That's one thing I think MS needs to focus on ya know? Some kind of intelligent system maintenance. Something people can understand. You can already schedule things like disk cleanup and defrag, but it's not as good as third party software. For instance, Diskeeper has automatic defragmentation that works all the time, but only works based on how active the machine is to begin with. It sees which files are being used the most, then moves them to the front of a disc for faster access. The MS defragger just doesn't give a shit about which files are being used most, and running it in the background means your machine slows down.
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  • Reply 123 of 197
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    you guys keep making it sound like this is a minor upgrade. This is an entirely new operating system. It isn't a vista fix or a patch or a service pack, and if anyone ever gets confused and thinks that it is, it's only because people like you are spreading misinformation about the subject.



    Warmed-over Vista. Microsoft says so.



    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9117399



    "[Windows 7], it's Windows Vista, a lot better," said Ballmer during a 45-minute question-and-answer session hosted by a pair of Gartner Inc. analysts at the research firm's annual Symposium ITxpo in Orlando today. The interview was later posted as a webcast on the Gartner site.



    Ballmer was responding to a question from Gartner's Neil MacDonald, who asked how Microsoft would walk the line between doing too much with Windows 7 -- thus risking the kind of compatibility problems that plagued Vista early in its career -- and too little, which might give customers an excuse to pass on the upgrade.



    "Windows Vista is good; Windows 7 is Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in performance," Ballmer said. "Look, I'm not encouraging anybody to wait, I'd go ahead and deploy it right away. We didn't have to go in an incompatible direction to make big strides forward."




    So much for "spreading misinformation", when those who are accused of doing it are simply repeating MS' official position.
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  • Reply 124 of 197
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Warmed-over Vista. Microsoft says so.



    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9117399



    "[Windows 7], it's Windows Vista, a lot better," said Ballmer during a 45-minute question-and-answer session hosted by a pair of Gartner Inc. analysts at the research firm's annual Symposium ITxpo in Orlando today. The interview was later posted as a webcast on the Gartner site.



    Ballmer was responding to a question from Gartner's Neil MacDonald, who asked how Microsoft would walk the line between doing too much with Windows 7 -- thus risking the kind of compatibility problems that plagued Vista early in its career -- and too little, which might give customers an excuse to pass on the upgrade.



    "Windows Vista is good; Windows 7 is Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in performance," Ballmer said. "Look, I'm not encouraging anybody to wait, I'd go ahead and deploy it right away. We didn't have to go in an incompatible direction to make big strides forward."




    So much for "spreading misinformation", when those who are accused of doing it are simply repeating MS' official position.



    Jesus. Way to AGAIN post misinformation (by only showing a portion of what he said.) Later in that same interview he claimed it was a major release, not a minor release (as everyone is making it sound here.)



    First you guys call Ballmer an idiot, and talk about how everything he says is moronic, then you turn around and quote him as the last word on a subject like this.



    If Ballmer wants to say something idiotic in order to sell more copies of Vista now, so be it, but he contradicts himself in that same interview. You know, the part you left out?



    Ballmer also took exception to the idea that Windows 7 will be a minor release or a spit polish on Vista. "It's a real release," he said, "because it's a lot more work than a minor release. It turns out you can [do] more than just a minor release in what is essentially a two-and-a-half-year period of time. There's no reason to do just 'a minor release' in two and a half years."





    ...Mike Nash, vice president of Windows product management, said "Windows 7" was the product's official name, he called the operating system "evolutionary" but still a "significant" advancement. "It is in every way a major effort in design, engineering and innovation," Nash said then.
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  • Reply 125 of 197
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Jesus. Way to AGAIN post misinformation. Later in that same interview he claimed it was a major release, not a minor release (as everyone is making it sound here.)



    First you guys call Ballmer an idiot, and talk about how everything he says is moronic, then you turn around and quote him as the last word on a subject like this.



    If Ballmer wants to say something idiotic in order to sell more copies of Vista now, so be it, but he contradicts himself in that same interview. You know, the part you left out?



    Ballmer also took exception to the idea that Windows 7 will be a minor release or a spit polish on Vista. "It's a real release," he said, "because it's a lot more work than a minor release. It turns out you can [do] more than just a minor release in what is essentially a two-and-a-half-year period of time. There's no reason to do just 'a minor release' in two and a half years."



    He admitted it was essentially a glorified service pack, and when people wondered why MS would do such a thing he quickly plays it down. That's obvious.



    Ballmy was right the FIRST time (the rest is just back-pedaling and damage-control.) MS' spin machine has always been lousy and tansparent. Seems it wasn't able to fool too many people this time around.



    You really can't get away from "Windows is Vista." That's about as direct and honest as someone can get right off the bat.



    In fact, in numerous interviews you'll find Bill Gates and Ballmer trying to distance themselves from Vista and/or admitting to the uncomfortable realities. Not even MS can love its own operating systems.
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  • Reply 126 of 197
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imGayForSteveJobs View Post


    lol. What does that even mean? You macboys are out of control stupid. It makes sense though, since Apples entire campaign is focused on how their user base can barely figure out how to turn on a computer.



    Great laughs here keep em coming.



    Want more laughs?!



    Okay... Did your hear the joke about Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer created an intelligently thought out operating system that works flawlessly?



    No?!



    Neither did they!



    (insert drum/cymbal rip here now)
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  • Reply 127 of 197
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Ballmer also took exception to the idea that Windows 7 will be a minor release or a spit polish on Vista. "It's a real release," he said, "because it's a lot more work than a minor release. It turns out you can [do] more than just a minor release in what is essentially a two-and-a-half-year period of time. There's no reason to do just 'a minor release' in two and a half years."



    He admitted it was essentially a glorified service pack, and when people wondered why MS would do such a thing he quickly plays it down. That's obvious.



    Ballmy was right the FIRST time (the rest is just back-pedaling and damage-control.) MS' spin machine has always been lousy and tansparent. Seems it wasn't able to fool too many people this time around.



    You really can't get away from "Windows is Vista." That's about as direct and honest as someone can get right off the bat.



    In fact, in numerous interviews you'll find Bill Gates and Ballmer trying to distance themselves from Vista and/or admitting to the uncomfortable realities. Not even MS can love its own operating systems.





    Well, someone like you obviously would view it the way you want. I don't even pay much attention to what he says there. Think about it, on one hand, he's gotta make it sound like they haven't gone too far ahead because of backward compatibility, but on the other hand he's gotta justify releasing windows 7 as a new operating system. Why would you listen to anyone in that position?
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  • Reply 128 of 197
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imGayForSteveJobs View Post


    lol. What does that even mean? You macboys are out of control stupid. It makes sense though, since Apples entire campaign is focused on how their user base can barely figure out how to turn on a computer.



    Great laughs here keep em coming.



    Your member name speaks volumes.



    Do you really think that's appropriate, in ANY forum?
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  • Reply 129 of 197
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post


    $29 Snow Leopard is going to make MS a laughingstock.



    Why? I think what is funny is snow leopard costs anything at all... Microsoft doesn't charge for service packs why should apple? Windows 7 is a new OS... Snow leopard is SP....
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  • Reply 130 of 197
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Well, someone like you obviously would view it the way you want. I don't even pay much attention to what he says there. Think about it, on one hand, he's gotta make it sound like they haven't gone too far ahead because of backward compatibility, but on the other hand he's gotta justify releasing windows 7 as a new operating system. Why would you listen to anyone in that position?



    Well, we'll only pay attention to MS very selectively, then.



    MS has a history of unknowingly (and often unintentionally) admitting to truths they would not otherwise like to reveal.



    This is just another example.
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  • Reply 131 of 197
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post


    Why? I think what is funny is snow leopard costs anything at all... Microsoft doesn't charge for service packs why should apple? Windows 7 is a new OS... Snow leopard is SP....



    The kind of archtectural changes SL brings can't be included in a service pack.



    Windows 7 is not a new OS. It's Vista. MS said it's Vista.



    SL, however, certainly is a new OS. Major under-the-hood changes (which are publicly admitted to) are kind of your first clue.
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  • Reply 132 of 197
    Quote:

    Windows 7 Ultimate will cost $220 to upgrade



    Windows 7 upgrade pricing from Vista is a ridiculous. This is just freakin insane for a upgrade. It's not even a retail copy to install where I please! No, simply an upgrade... for over $200! I don't get it. I would have jumped at anything lower than a Benjamin. Add to this the fact that you are basically getting a marginally better organized UI and some new wallpapers. There just isn't that much of an improvement from Vista to warrant this kind of cash-grab. Insane. Or is it? Is it just another plot to get you buy hardware to get the OS for "free". Deals with the manufacturers? Course not...
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  • Reply 133 of 197
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    The point to be made is that Microsoft in a relative sense isn't really gouging their customers. It looks pretty even to me.



    No the point is that Microsoft can't get it's act together to get it's OS out the door.



    Let's see, we are at OS X (10.5) almost 10.6 or six releases, close to 7, and wasn't one of those earlier releases free?



    Anyway, MS never released it's feature rich Longhorn. Instead Vista was put out there instead.



    If MS had done the same as Apple and did a smaller version of the Longhorn OS and then released another 5 updates that offered improved stability and a few new features and did so at the pricing it is charging as stated in the article, then MS customers would have paid more.
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  • Reply 134 of 197
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MotherBrain View Post


    Windows 7 upgrade pricing from Vista is a ridiculous. This is just freakin insane for a upgrade. It's not even a retail copy to install where I please! No, simply an upgrade... for over $200! I don't get it. I would have jumped at anything lower than a Benjamin. Add to this the fact that you are basically getting a marginally better organized UI and some new wallpapers. There just isn't that much of an improvement from Vista to warrant this kind of cash-grab. Insane. Or is it? Is it just another plot to get you buy hardware to get the OS for "free". Deals with the manufacturers? Course not...



    I've recently switched from PC to MAC and would never go back. I know some people choose PCs over MACs because of price, but...why would you want to own a PC? Why would you want to install windows 7? I honestly cannot believe what I was missing before I bought my MAC. Also, why would you install windows 7 using boot camp??

    The only reason I'd have a PC is if I needed it for work...
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  • Reply 135 of 197
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I?d wager that most Windows users won?t upgrade their OS, they?ll just wait until they need a new PC before getting the next OS.



    Agree. There is no any reason to easily abandon Vista today - after SP2 (actually after SP1) it works as it should from the beginning. Hardware and software compatibility wise, both Vista and 7 will be on the same level.



    Out of 4 Vista PCs (and 4 XP PCs), I'm planning to upgrade only one Vista box to 7 - mostly out of curiosity. Vista license from that machine will upgrade one of XP boxes - other XPs are too old and weak for anything above XP, anyway.
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  • Reply 136 of 197
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Ballmer also took exception to the idea that Windows 7 will be a minor release or a spit polish on Vista. "It's a real release," he said, "because it's a lot more work than a minor release. It turns out you can [do] more than just a minor release in what is essentially a two-and-a-half-year period of time. There's no reason to do just 'a minor release' in two and a half years."



    He admitted it was essentially a glorified service pack, and when people wondered why MS would do such a thing he quickly plays it down. That's obvious.



    Ballmy was right the FIRST time (the rest is just back-pedaling and damage-control.) MS' spin machine has always been lousy and tansparent. Seems it wasn't able to fool too many people this time around.



    You really can't get away from "Windows is Vista." That's about as direct and honest as someone can get right off the bat.



    In fact, in numerous interviews you'll find Bill Gates and Ballmer trying to distance themselves from Vista and/or admitting to the uncomfortable realities. Not even MS can love its own operating systems.



    I, for one, am happy 7 is based on Vista core. Completely new core would likely cause new avalanche of compatibility and drivers stability issues. That aside, Vista is decent core, stable and reliable, if a bit bloated with background processes and services, and not much advanced (as it could be) in GUI compared to XP.



    So for me, taking good reliable core and redoing background processes and services, and making it more pleasurable to use from end user point of view is the way to go.



    How much work is really done? No idea. To retreat to everyone's favourite car analogies, plain factory Subaru Impreza and Rally breed STI are based on the same core, but very much different cars. I'm hoping 7 will be related to Vista in the same way.



    After all, Snow Leopard is still OSX... not OSXI...
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  • Reply 137 of 197
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Your member name speaks volumes.



    Do you really think that's appropriate, in ANY forum?



    Well, I must agree on Quadra on this one - imGayForSteveJobs is, err, a bit corky name
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  • Reply 138 of 197
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Well, I must agree on Quadra on this one - imGayForSteveJobs is, err, a bit corky name



    I?m pretty sure it?s Seahawk Fan under a new name after he was sent to Coventry. If not, the timing is uncanny.
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  • Reply 139 of 197
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Well, I must agree on Quadra on this one - imGayForSteveJobs is, err, a bit corky name



    Are we to discriminate against the gays now? Maybe he really is infatuated with Steve Jobs. He's free to do so.
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  • Reply 140 of 197
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post


    I've recently switched from PC to MAC and would never go back. I know some people choose PCs over MACs because of price, but...why would you want to own a PC? Why would you want to install windows 7? I honestly cannot believe what I was missing before I bought my MAC. Also, why would you install windows 7 using boot camp??

    The only reason I'd have a PC is if I needed it for work...



    Let me help.



    Work related, as you mentioned - obviously.



    Lower hardware price, much of it not available on Mac. There is no Quad Core option for Mac - short of Mac Pro.



    Software not available on Mac (might be work related for some people).



    Games



    Easy hardware upgrade path. If you purchase your machine carefully, adding things to PC box is simple. Adding things to consumer Macs is, well.
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