Thanks. I'm really happy with it. The 8800GT graphics card is pretty darned quick for gaming, too. I was lucky because I was in California on business and happened to find it listed on craigslist by an Apple employee. Although $2900 is not cheap, it's a steal for that system in that configuration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
As expensive as the Mac Pro is I figure I'm headed on that path.
You're not likely to regret it. I have built so many systems that I've lost count, but you can't put together anything comparable to the Mac Pro. You can't even buy cases that approach the one used on the Mac Pro. SATA drives that just slide in on drive sleds -- no cables to connect. Over two dozen temperature sensors and an intelligent controller to adjust fan speeds relative to where the heat is showing up. It's just done right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
The mini though is a great little system and I swear if they don't keep their value. Often I'll find someone selling an Intel mini on craigslist (I have an RSS feed as an alert) and if there's a Intel mini in the $300s it's gone in a day or two.
They are still highly valued systems and highly capable.
Agreed 100%! I sold mine to my GF at a good price. I had upgraded it to 4GB, DVD-R/W, and 320GB hard drive (I got very good at opening it up -- not a scratch on the case). That is the computer that she uses for her job as a freelance writer and editor. The comfort factor of having Time Machine and an easy recovery should something go wrong is really a big selling point with her. Should the Mac Mini have a catastrophic hardware failure, she knows that she can get another one, put the Time Machine drive on it, and be back up and running in a few hours having lost, at most, an hour's work. Unless you are a computer or graphic professional, the Mac Mini is a fine system
I have never used the term 'troll' ever. But I don't object to it as much. At least when it is used as a verb. Apple Tax is just a dumb term designed to appeal on a base level against Apple's high prices. Or perceived high prices. I know you think Apple overcharges and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion. But in terms of the usage of the made up term in question, that is neither here nor there. As for Fanboy... do I really have to say anything? It is a kindergarten level gibe. I mean, explain it to me (intelligently, if you can. I know what an Apple fan (or fanatic in extreme cases) is. Apple fan = a fan of all things Apple (gender neutral). Fanboy - a boy that is a fan of something? A fan of boys?
Bias is they key ingredient. Nothing Apple does is ever considered wrong or average.
From Wiki:
Quote:
Fanboy is a term originating in the United States[citation needed], used to describe a male who is highly devoted and biased in opinion towards a single subject or hobby within a given field.
What I'm really surprised is that you don't know what the term means or have any idea towards what it means and that is indeed a relevant term. Were you just released into society? This term has been around for quite a number of years.
Well, manufacturing costs were included in the estimate. I assumed that included packaging and assembly. The software is basically the same as for all their other models so I'm not really sure how you quantify that for the Mini specifically. You mean like, specialized drivers or something?
Manufacturing was included but not packing material (cardboard box, manual, etc.) but that is probably not much, maybe around $10 or $20 (or even less, I have no idea really).
What is missing from this information is indeed how much an Apple retailer is paying for these. In Europe, a VAT between 15 and 25% has to be factored in as well.
Assuming a reseller has a $50 margin, Apple would get $550 for the base mini. If you factor in, packaging and transport and distribution, Apple is paying at least $400 to ship one base mini to a retailer. In other words a $150 'raw' margin. Now, factor in the OS, $120 (assuming that is what Apple would get from a retailer for the OS), and you end up with a grand total of $30 from which to finance the whole hardware development and testing. And only after that comes profit.
What is obvious, is that Apple is essentially able to sell their OS (where a lot of their genius is) at different prices to different people. Those buying a cheap Mac 'pay' much less for the OS, those getting a top-of-the-line pay a lot more. That is how their business works. Their biggest assets is software and by bundling it with hardware they can extract the maximum price in each market segment.
I suspect as much too. I don't know how iSupply estimates the cost of components, especially those that Apple has the leverage buy at substantial discounts.
Think of what else the Mac mini does: enables Apple to leverage more "economy of scale" in parts ordering. Also it is one more machine to sell OS upgrades and iLife upgrades for, etc.
The article states that Apple often uses laptop components within desktops to keep within their design standards... and that these parts cost more.
I would suggest that assumption may not necessarily be true. Efficiencies can be created by standardizing parts across platforms within the production process, that may offset what might be a more expensive part originally. These cost savings could come from (1) lowering part cost purely by increased quantity, (2) management and financial costs associated with vendor relations, (3) R & D costs associated with using common components... I'm sure there are more. Just because component-X for a laptop costs more than a similar component for a desktop... in a production environment, this may not hold true.
The iPhone is really making Apple or AT&T a killing, to the tune of a missing $760 over a two year contract, itś hard to know who gets what part of that.
Where they have no provider lock, Apple sells the iPhone 16 GB for ?600 ($845 but it includes VAT) and an iPod touch 16 GB for ?280. Yes, there is the phone and GPS hardware but Apple is really make a huge raw profit with the iPhone. In countries with an exclusive provider, Apple probably gets even more, in Switzerland (which has two official iPhone providers) a contract-less iPhone 16 GB sells for CHF 1000 (or $915).
Right- and you'll stop using the tern "troll" whenever somebody says anything against the grain. Fanboy is not stupid but a reality. How else do you explain how someone cn defend every shortcoming in any given Apple product- all the time, incessantly?
Fan boy is a stupid term because its used so broadly. A fanboy is someone who stands up and claps when steve jobs enters a room. A fanboy is someone who waits 8 yrs to play high end games because he won;t touch msft ever. a FANBOY NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY HATES BILL GATES AND MSFT.
a fanboy is loyal will also say apple is wrong <<very rare > when apple is wrong.
Bias is they key ingredient. Nothing Apple does is ever considered wrong or average.
The reason that you always see bias is because of your perspective which is that of an individual end customer with unique requirements.
Many people who admire Apple and say in these forums that "it can do no wrong", say that from either the perspective of an investor (in Apple stock) or of a student of business.
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD
for $899
They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.
If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD
for $899
They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.
If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
Small problem.
Its a Gateway.
If I want a PC, I would build (and have done so before)
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
How exactly are they building it wrong because they choose to build to a small, low-power machine with notebook-grade parts? That is there choice, just as it’s any other PC OEMs choice to use the HW they choose. It’s like me saying those OEMs that build gaming notebooks with desktop-grade components weighing 15lbs with a batteries that last for a single hour are doing it wrong simply because I’m not a gamer. Neither the Mac Mini nor a gaming machine appeal to me but I can’t imagine how either one is being built wrong.
'Apple Tax' is a silly term right up there with 'fanboy', the use of which signifies low intelligence, lack of insight and plain old laziness. Please, lets refrain from using stupid terminology whenever possible.
come in europe and buy an apple machine then you can tell me there is no apple tax
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD
for $899
They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.
If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
Depends on the aims of the designer. With in the mini, it seemed to be as much cramming parts into the smallest space possible in addition to making a function computer.
That being said, despite the pitifully small 120GB in the $599 model (250GB should be standard) and the ordeal you have to go through to so much as upgrade the RAM, its a very useful little computer that I would recommend to anyone.
My guess is that Apple sees the mini as a means to gain market share. Apple really seems to do it's homework when it comes to market research (though it doesn't keep them from trying unknowns ie Cube). I can see this machine to be ideal for switchers, those who have used a PC all their lives, maybe lured to take a look at the mac b/c of the iPhone. It's a toe in the water kinda thing. Today a Mac Mini, tomorrow a 24" iMac, MacBook, or Mac Pro. I'd say that once you can get them to start using Mac OS X, you pretty much got'em.
You hit the nail on the head! I started with a MacMini (very first edition in 2005) to do a "trial run" of OS X (was dual-booting Windows and Linux before) to see if I wanted to stay invested in that platform. Despite the slowness of new Java releases on the platform, I was hooked but after a year I realized the MacMini was not powerful enough for my needs. I upgraded to more powerful hardware and gave my mom the MacMini. She's still using it to this day, which shows you how good the shelf life of Macs are vs. Windows PCs.
Comments
Geez that's a nice system.
Thanks. I'm really happy with it. The 8800GT graphics card is pretty darned quick for gaming, too. I was lucky because I was in California on business and happened to find it listed on craigslist by an Apple employee. Although $2900 is not cheap, it's a steal for that system in that configuration.
As expensive as the Mac Pro is I figure I'm headed on that path.
You're not likely to regret it. I have built so many systems that I've lost count, but you can't put together anything comparable to the Mac Pro. You can't even buy cases that approach the one used on the Mac Pro. SATA drives that just slide in on drive sleds -- no cables to connect. Over two dozen temperature sensors and an intelligent controller to adjust fan speeds relative to where the heat is showing up. It's just done right.
The mini though is a great little system and I swear if they don't keep their value. Often I'll find someone selling an Intel mini on craigslist (I have an RSS feed as an alert) and if there's a Intel mini in the $300s it's gone in a day or two.
They are still highly valued systems and highly capable.
Agreed 100%! I sold mine to my GF at a good price. I had upgraded it to 4GB, DVD-R/W, and 320GB hard drive (I got very good at opening it up -- not a scratch on the case). That is the computer that she uses for her job as a freelance writer and editor. The comfort factor of having Time Machine and an easy recovery should something go wrong is really a big selling point with her. Should the Mac Mini have a catastrophic hardware failure, she knows that she can get another one, put the Time Machine drive on it, and be back up and running in a few hours having lost, at most, an hour's work. Unless you are a computer or graphic professional, the Mac Mini is a fine system
I did last week- why? I live in New York- I'm used to paying high taxes on everything.
Fair enough. I asked out of curiosity because there was a recent article saying that most iPod touch users didn't upgrade to 3.0.
I have never used the term 'troll' ever. But I don't object to it as much. At least when it is used as a verb. Apple Tax is just a dumb term designed to appeal on a base level against Apple's high prices. Or perceived high prices. I know you think Apple overcharges and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion. But in terms of the usage of the made up term in question, that is neither here nor there. As for Fanboy... do I really have to say anything? It is a kindergarten level gibe. I mean, explain it to me (intelligently, if you can. I know what an Apple fan (or fanatic in extreme cases) is. Apple fan = a fan of all things Apple (gender neutral). Fanboy - a boy that is a fan of something? A fan of boys?
Bias is they key ingredient. Nothing Apple does is ever considered wrong or average.
From Wiki:
Fanboy is a term originating in the United States[citation needed], used to describe a male who is highly devoted and biased in opinion towards a single subject or hobby within a given field.
read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(aficionado)
What I'm really surprised is that you don't know what the term means or have any idea towards what it means and that is indeed a relevant term. Were you just released into society? This term has been around for quite a number of years.
Well, manufacturing costs were included in the estimate. I assumed that included packaging and assembly. The software is basically the same as for all their other models so I'm not really sure how you quantify that for the Mini specifically. You mean like, specialized drivers or something?
Manufacturing was included but not packing material (cardboard box, manual, etc.) but that is probably not much, maybe around $10 or $20 (or even less, I have no idea really).
What is missing from this information is indeed how much an Apple retailer is paying for these. In Europe, a VAT between 15 and 25% has to be factored in as well.
Assuming a reseller has a $50 margin, Apple would get $550 for the base mini. If you factor in, packaging and transport and distribution, Apple is paying at least $400 to ship one base mini to a retailer. In other words a $150 'raw' margin. Now, factor in the OS, $120 (assuming that is what Apple would get from a retailer for the OS), and you end up with a grand total of $30 from which to finance the whole hardware development and testing. And only after that comes profit.
What is obvious, is that Apple is essentially able to sell their OS (where a lot of their genius is) at different prices to different people. Those buying a cheap Mac 'pay' much less for the OS, those getting a top-of-the-line pay a lot more. That is how their business works. Their biggest assets is software and by bundling it with hardware they can extract the maximum price in each market segment.
I suspect as much too. I don't know how iSupply estimates the cost of components, especially those that Apple has the leverage buy at substantial discounts.
Any links to show proof of this ?
peace
9
Fair enough. I asked out of curiosity because there was a recent article saying that most iPod touch users didn't upgrade to 3.0.
I preferto have my software up to date. The main reason is for the bluetooth functionality.
Then what are you -- an Apple panboy?
Why are you attacking our grand pooh bah . He is never wrong
I would suggest that assumption may not necessarily be true. Efficiencies can be created by standardizing parts across platforms within the production process, that may offset what might be a more expensive part originally. These cost savings could come from (1) lowering part cost purely by increased quantity, (2) management and financial costs associated with vendor relations, (3) R & D costs associated with using common components... I'm sure there are more. Just because component-X for a laptop costs more than a similar component for a desktop... in a production environment, this may not hold true.
The iPhone is really making Apple or AT&T a killing, to the tune of a missing $760 over a two year contract, itś hard to know who gets what part of that.
Where they have no provider lock, Apple sells the iPhone 16 GB for ?600 ($845 but it includes VAT) and an iPod touch 16 GB for ?280. Yes, there is the phone and GPS hardware but Apple is really make a huge raw profit with the iPhone. In countries with an exclusive provider, Apple probably gets even more, in Switzerland (which has two official iPhone providers) a contract-less iPhone 16 GB sells for CHF 1000 (or $915).
Right- and you'll stop using the tern "troll" whenever somebody says anything against the grain. Fanboy is not stupid but a reality. How else do you explain how someone cn defend every shortcoming in any given Apple product- all the time, incessantly?
Fan boy is a stupid term because its used so broadly. A fanboy is someone who stands up and claps when steve jobs enters a room. A fanboy is someone who waits 8 yrs to play high end games because he won;t touch msft ever. a FANBOY NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY HATES BILL GATES AND MSFT.
a fanboy is loyal will also say apple is wrong <<very rare > when apple is wrong.
a fanboy loves stve jobs and wants him healed .
I AM A FAN BOY and proud of it .
Bias is they key ingredient. Nothing Apple does is ever considered wrong or average.
The reason that you always see bias is because of your perspective which is that of an individual end customer with unique requirements.
Many people who admire Apple and say in these forums that "it can do no wrong", say that from either the perspective of an investor (in Apple stock) or of a student of business.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/g...rm-factor-pcs/
Then we'd get:
Intel® Core(TM) 2 Quad Q8400 (2.66GHz, 4MB L2 cache)
NVIDIA® GeForce® G210 graphics card (512MB video memory)
Intel G43 Express chipset
8GB DDR3 SDRAM
750GB SATA hard drive (1)
18x DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive featuring Labelflash(TM) Technology (2)
Multi-in-one digital media card reader
Windows® Vista Home Premium 64 bit
10/100/1000 (Gigabit) LAN
8 USB 2.0 ports (4 front / 4 rear)
1 1394 (rear / miniport)
1 HDMI port (rear)
1 VGA port (rear)
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD
for $899
They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.
If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
They would be able to make more profit if they used cheaper parts like these guys do:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/g...rm-factor-pcs/
Then we'd get:
Intel® Core(TM) 2 Quad Q8400 (2.66GHz, 4MB L2 cache)
NVIDIA® GeForce® G210 graphics card (512MB video memory)
Intel G43 Express chipset
8GB DDR3 SDRAM
750GB SATA hard drive (1)
18x DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive featuring Labelflash(TM) Technology (2)
Multi-in-one digital media card reader
Windows® Vista Home Premium 64 bit
10/100/1000 (Gigabit) LAN
8 USB 2.0 ports (4 front / 4 rear)
1 1394 (rear / miniport)
1 HDMI port (rear)
1 VGA port (rear)
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD
for $899
They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.
If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
Small problem.
Its a Gateway.
If I want a PC, I would build (and have done so before)
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
How exactly are they building it wrong because they choose to build to a small, low-power machine with notebook-grade parts? That is there choice, just as it’s any other PC OEMs choice to use the HW they choose. It’s like me saying those OEMs that build gaming notebooks with desktop-grade components weighing 15lbs with a batteries that last for a single hour are doing it wrong simply because I’m not a gamer. Neither the Mac Mini nor a gaming machine appeal to me but I can’t imagine how either one is being built wrong.
'Apple Tax' is a silly term right up there with 'fanboy', the use of which signifies low intelligence, lack of insight and plain old laziness. Please, lets refrain from using stupid terminology whenever possible.
come in europe and buy an apple machine then you can tell me there is no apple tax
come in europe and buy an apple machine then you can tell me there is no apple tax
VAT ≠ Apple Tax
Import Tax ≠ Apple Tax
Exchange Rate ≠ Apple Tax
They would be able to make more profit if they used cheaper parts like these guys do:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/g...rm-factor-pcs/
Then we'd get:
Intel® Core(TM) 2 Quad Q8400 (2.66GHz, 4MB L2 cache)
NVIDIA® GeForce® G210 graphics card (512MB video memory)
Intel G43 Express chipset
8GB DDR3 SDRAM
750GB SATA hard drive (1)
18x DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive featuring Labelflash(TM) Technology (2)
Multi-in-one digital media card reader
Windows® Vista Home Premium 64 bit
10/100/1000 (Gigabit) LAN
8 USB 2.0 ports (4 front / 4 rear)
1 1394 (rear / miniport)
1 HDMI port (rear)
1 VGA port (rear)
High-definition audio with 8-channel (7.1) audio support
Gateway FHX2300 bmid 23² HD Widescreen LCD
for $899
They wouldn't sacrifice on footprint as it's just taller, we'd all get a decent speed machine at a reasonable price with great graphics and it comes with a free screen.
If Apple sold that without a screen, I'd buy that spec at that price.
The fact that the Mini seems overpriced and Apple still don't make that much profit means they are building it wrong. No one is telling them to use mobile parts.
Depends on the aims of the designer. With in the mini, it seemed to be as much cramming parts into the smallest space possible in addition to making a function computer.
That being said, despite the pitifully small 120GB in the $599 model (250GB should be standard) and the ordeal you have to go through to so much as upgrade the RAM, its a very useful little computer that I would recommend to anyone.
My guess is that Apple sees the mini as a means to gain market share. Apple really seems to do it's homework when it comes to market research (though it doesn't keep them from trying unknowns ie Cube). I can see this machine to be ideal for switchers, those who have used a PC all their lives, maybe lured to take a look at the mac b/c of the iPhone. It's a toe in the water kinda thing. Today a Mac Mini, tomorrow a 24" iMac, MacBook, or Mac Pro. I'd say that once you can get them to start using Mac OS X, you pretty much got'em.
You hit the nail on the head! I started with a MacMini (very first edition in 2005) to do a "trial run" of OS X (was dual-booting Windows and Linux before) to see if I wanted to stay invested in that platform. Despite the slowness of new Java releases on the platform, I was hooked but after a year I realized the MacMini was not powerful enough for my needs. I upgraded to more powerful hardware and gave my mom the MacMini. She's still using it to this day, which shows you how good the shelf life of Macs are vs. Windows PCs.