Assume that you are 100% correct in what you are saying above. Four questions:
1) Is it your business or mine or anyone else's on this site?
2) If yes, is it tactful to post this information all over the internet?
3) If yes, does your post add anything that has not already been repeated ad nauseam by others?
4) If yes, do you think that you can post the paragraph saying "he is DOOMED" and the last two sentences?
Um, you're an idiot? I was just commenting on the fact that the media is saying all over the web that his prognosis is excellent and I was merely pointing out that that is not accurate reporting. So seeing as most of us on this site do care deeply for his health and are very saddened by this horrible reality, I thought we could talk about it cause, um, that's what forums are for.
If I was saying "Steve Jobs is an ass and deserves to die" then that would be different. Comprende'?
which daughter - the one he has with his current wife, or the one he denied parenthood of in the 80's? The latter, of course, would be much more ironic.
I was thinking of the ironic one because irony is cool
No, that is about right. The FIVE YEAR RATE of liver transplant is 73% FIVE YEAR! If you are in the other 27% then you live shorter. Why does this not make sense to the media. The FIVE YEAR RATE??? Correct me if I'm wrong but it checks out with all the guys in the field I have talked to.
1) The article says 73% to 78% -- i.e., there is a 0.73 - 0.78 likelihood that a person getting a liver transplant survives for five years. The article also says that liver transplants do better than heart transplants(68%), and lung transplants (45% - 52%). All in all, it doesn't seem that bad, if true.
2) More important, if you guys (I am including AppleStud) had bothered, you'll have noticed that there are citations for this data (that is why I left in the [1], and [2][3] in the text). They sure look to me like credible sources of data, but I am not an expert in this area. In case you are lazy (or so that the others can see), here are the sources cited by WebMD. Please tell me which ones you and/or your 'friends' and/or AppleStud think is bogus:
-------
References
Citations
Organ Procurement and Transplant Network (2007). All Kaplan-Meier patient survival rates for transplants performed: 1997–2004: Recipient diagnosis. Available online: http://www.optn.org/latestData/step2.asp?.
Health Resources and Services Administration (2006). 2006 Annual Report of the U.S. Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network and the Scientific Registry of Transplant Recipients: Transplant Data 1996–2005. Available online: http://www.optn.org/data/annualReport.asp.
Pham MX, et al. (2008). Surgical treatment of heart failure, cardiac transplantation, and mechanical ventricular support. In V Fuster et al., eds., Hurst's The Heart, 12th ed., pp. 761–790. New York: McGraw-Hill.
Other Works Consulted
Carithers RL, Perkins JD (2007). Liver and pancreas transplantation. In DC Dale, DD Federman, eds., ACP Medicine, section 4, chap. 15. New York: WebMD.
Klassen DK, Weir MR (2007). Renal transplantation. In DC Dale, DD Federman, eds., ACP Medicine, section 10, chap. 11. New York: WebMD.
Punch JD (2006). Organ transplantation. In GM Doherty, LW Way, eds., Current Surgical Diagnosis and Treatment, 12th ed., pp. 1351–1369. New York: McGraw-Hill.
Trulock EP (2007). Lung transplantation. In DC Dale, DD Federman, eds., ACP Medicine, section 14, chap. 17. New York: WebMD.
Paya C, et al. (2004). Efficacy and safety of valganciclovir vs. oral ganciclovir for prevention of cytomegalovirus disease in solid organ transplant recipients. American Journal of Transplant, 4(4): 611–620.
------
3) What you said was your friends said "He will be lucky to live 5 years. 2 or 3 is most likely." That is not what this data -- assuming it's correctly cited, and there is no reason to suspect it's not -- suggests. Either your friends are exaggerating, or you are.
Assume that you are 100% correct in what you are saying above. Four questions:
1) Is it your business or mine or anyone else's on this site?
2) If yes, is it tactful to post this information all over the internet?
3) If yes, does your post add anything that has not already been repeated ad nauseam by others?
4) If yes, do you think that you can post the paragraph saying "he is DOOMED" and the last two sentences?
Dude- he's just commenting on something that's just basic medical knowledge regarding liver transplants. Liver transplants are some serious shit. I'm surpised he's not taking an extended leave of absence or retiring all together. No need to get so angry at a poster - he said nothing crass.
Um, you're an idiot? I was just commenting on the fact that the media is saying all over the web that his prognosis is excellent and I was merely pointing out that that is not accurate reporting. So seeing as most of us on this site do care deeply for his health and are very saddened by this horrible reality, I thought we could talk about it cause, um, that's what forums are for.
If I was saying "Steve Jobs is an ass and deserves to die" then that would be different. Comprende'?
Sheeeesh ...... Go clean your Mac or something!
Pay him no mind- that guy has some chip on his shoulder. I wouldn't even bother trying to explain to him what you posted- it was quite clear and unbiased to me.
I still don't understand why we are not seeing this. And I am still willing to learn something new but I have four friends (doctor, two surgeons and a PA) and they all confirm what this article is saying and what you all are saying but not understanding. Here it is again in black and white....... He has a 73-78% chance of living for FIVE YEARS!!!!! Then he is most likely to be dead!!! That is a best prognosis. The other 22-27% (ouch, had to do some quick math there :0) will live for less time! Why is this not plain and simple? Why would anyone think it means anything better than what it is saying?
Keep it cool cause I am wrong on a lot of things but this is how I read it and this is how medical experts I have talked to KNOW IT.
2) More important, if you guys (I am including AppleStud) had bothered, you'll have noticed that there are citations for this data .
i'm not discounting the stats. All i said was WebMD is a joke. Maybe not the best choice of words, but I was basing it on having a pretty good personal insight into emergency room medicine, and very often people will go to the ER saying, "webMD says i have xxx disorder or xxx disease" when in reality they have nothing close to such things. People go there to self-diagnose, which is incredibly stupid. It's not all about "how to properly apply a bandage." People go there for self-psychoanalysis, among other things about which they are clueless.
well, webMD is a joke, but what it's saying about transplants is bascally supports what was said earlier. There's a 75% chance he'll live to 5 years. After that, it's ALL borrowed time. 25% chance he won't make it five years. That's a pretty big chance.
It also depends on the reason for the transplant - in this case it's metastatic cancer which is a lot different that a transplant due to cirrhosis of the liver.
I agree you handsome AppleStud. I know people that frighten themselves to death on WebMD cause they feel a pain their side and they read they could die in five minutes or it could be you ate too much hamburger!!!!
Um, you're an idiot? I was just commenting on the fact that the media is saying all over the web that his prognosis is excellent and I was merely pointing out that that is not accurate reporting. So seeing as most of us on this site do care deeply for his health and are very saddened by this horrible reality, I thought we could talk about it cause, um, that's what forums are for.
If I was saying "Steve Jobs is an ass and deserves to die" then that would be different. Comprende'?
Sheeeesh ...... Go clean your Mac or something!
I will not respond to your personal attacks. They speak for themselves.
If you "care deeply", respect his privacy and keep quiet.
..... very often people will go to the ER saying, "webMD says i have xxx disorder or xxx disease" when in reality they have nothing close to such things. People go there to self-diagnose, which is incredibly stupid. It's not all about "how to properly apply a bandage." People go there for self-psychoanalysis, among other things about which they are clueless.
The stupidity of the people doing this has nothing to with the credibility of WebMD.
When you make sweeping assertions like you did, you risk lowering your own credibility.
I will not respond to your personal attacks. They speak for themselves.
If you "care deeply", respect his privacy and keep quiet.
Yawwwwn....... There is a difference between keeping quiet and being respectful. This is a respectful discussion while we try to figure out "what does this all mean" for a man we all have deep respect for. If you want to keep quiet then get off this forum.
Keep Quiet...... that is the funniest thing I have heard today. Hush everyone...... your highness is unwell and it is not to be discussed. Give me a break. This guy is one of my idols. Don't sit there and tell me to keep quiet.
Yawwwwn....... There is a difference between keeping quiet and being respectful. This is a respectful discussion while we try to figure out "what does this all mean" for a man we all have deep respect for. If you want to keep quiet then get off this forum.
Keep Quiet...... that is the funniest thing I have heard today. Hush everyone...... your highness is unwell and it is not to be discussed. Give me a break. This guy is one of my idols. Don't sit there and tell me to keep quiet.
I think you missed a spot on your Mac.......
You are making the incorrect assumption that I am defending Steve Jobs because of who he is and that I am a "fan". Just because "this guy is one of [your] idols" does not mean that you can take liberties and comment on his private life on the internet. It is indiscreet whether you are right or not and whether you are a fan or not. It is indiscreet when done about your father, you, me, a guy down the street or Steve Jobs.
You can disagree with my point but you should stop trying to insult me. I haven't insulted you and it is not inability that led to that. Learn how to discuss without insults.
No, that is about right. The FIVE YEAR RATE of liver transplant is 73% FIVE YEAR! If you are in the other 27% then you live shorter. Why does this not make sense to the media. The FIVE YEAR RATE??? Correct me if I'm wrong but it checks out with all the guys in the field I have talked to.
I think David Crosby is doing fine except for some pain (at least thats why he said he was smoking pot the last time he got busted, or was that the time before last) seems to be after his liver transplant in 1995. He has lived the life of a wild man - did not have cancer but has hardly followed the rules. You can apparently live quite a bit longer than the 2-5 years quoted by "those in the know" here.
I think David Crosby is doing fine except for some pain (at least thats why he said he was smoking pot the last time he got busted, or was that the time before last) seems to be doing fine after his liver transplant in 1995. He has lived the life of a wild man - did not have cancer but has hardly followed the rules. You can apparently live quite a bit longer than the 2-5 years quoted by "those in the know" here.
Sssssshhhhh...... Let's not talk about it anymore...... \
Seriously, THIS is the kind of discussion I was looking for. That is awesome news. So there are some cases that really last a long time! Thanks for posting. Lets hope for the best. I will ask some more questions around in the field.
As far as privacy, I don't see the big deal. Why is it so hard to admit we are all frail and human? If I was CEO and didn't want any cameras at my window, I would say "come on in and lets talk about it". They would all soon go away. What is the harm is saying "Hey, I'm really sick. Pray for me." Instead of this undercover nonsense. I mean everyone has their way but I think the privacy road Steve takes is prideful and only makes it worse for him. Just my 2 cents.
I will not respond to your personal attacks. They speak for themselves.
If you "care deeply", respect his privacy and keep quiet.
Keep quiet? The poster is having an adult discussion regarding his illness. Your childish dismisals that we should ignore facts and not talk is ridiculous. And telling someone to "keep quiet" is a direct mean spirited attack in itself.
Sssssshhhhh...... Let's not talk about it anymore...... \
Seriously, THIS is the kind of discussion I was looking for. That is awesome news. So there are some cases that really last a long time! Thanks for posting. Lets hope for the best. I will ask some more questions around in the field.
As far as privacy, I don't see the big deal. Why is it so hard to admit we are all frail and human? If I was CEO and didn't want any cameras at my window, I would say "come on in and lets talk about it". They would all soon go away. What is the harm is saying "Hey, I'm really sick. Pray for me." Instead of this undercover nonsense. I mean everyone has their way but I think the privacy road Steve takes is prideful and only makes it worse for him. Just my 2 cents.
Right- look at Farrah- she put it right out there. Did Crosby have cirhossis of the liver or some form of cancer - a big difference.
Comments
Assume that you are 100% correct in what you are saying above. Four questions:
1) Is it your business or mine or anyone else's on this site?
2) If yes, is it tactful to post this information all over the internet?
3) If yes, does your post add anything that has not already been repeated ad nauseam by others?
4) If yes, do you think that you can post the paragraph saying "he is DOOMED" and the last two sentences?
Um, you're an idiot? I was just commenting on the fact that the media is saying all over the web that his prognosis is excellent and I was merely pointing out that that is not accurate reporting. So seeing as most of us on this site do care deeply for his health and are very saddened by this horrible reality, I thought we could talk about it cause, um, that's what forums are for.
If I was saying "Steve Jobs is an ass and deserves to die" then that would be different. Comprende'?
Sheeeesh ...... Go clean your Mac or something!
which daughter - the one he has with his current wife, or the one he denied parenthood of in the 80's? The latter, of course, would be much more ironic.
I was thinking of the ironic one because irony is cool
No, that is about right. The FIVE YEAR RATE of liver transplant is 73% FIVE YEAR! If you are in the other 27% then you live shorter. Why does this not make sense to the media. The FIVE YEAR RATE??? Correct me if I'm wrong but it checks out with all the guys in the field I have talked to.
1) The article says 73% to 78% -- i.e., there is a 0.73 - 0.78 likelihood that a person getting a liver transplant survives for five years. The article also says that liver transplants do better than heart transplants(68%), and lung transplants (45% - 52%). All in all, it doesn't seem that bad, if true.
2) More important, if you guys (I am including AppleStud) had bothered, you'll have noticed that there are citations for this data (that is why I left in the [1], and [2][3] in the text). They sure look to me like credible sources of data, but I am not an expert in this area. In case you are lazy (or so that the others can see), here are the sources cited by WebMD. Please tell me which ones you and/or your 'friends' and/or AppleStud think is bogus:
-------
References
Citations
Organ Procurement and Transplant Network (2007). All Kaplan-Meier patient survival rates for transplants performed: 1997–2004: Recipient diagnosis. Available online: http://www.optn.org/latestData/step2.asp?.
Health Resources and Services Administration (2006). 2006 Annual Report of the U.S. Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network and the Scientific Registry of Transplant Recipients: Transplant Data 1996–2005. Available online: http://www.optn.org/data/annualReport.asp.
Pham MX, et al. (2008). Surgical treatment of heart failure, cardiac transplantation, and mechanical ventricular support. In V Fuster et al., eds., Hurst's The Heart, 12th ed., pp. 761–790. New York: McGraw-Hill.
Other Works Consulted
Carithers RL, Perkins JD (2007). Liver and pancreas transplantation. In DC Dale, DD Federman, eds., ACP Medicine, section 4, chap. 15. New York: WebMD.
Klassen DK, Weir MR (2007). Renal transplantation. In DC Dale, DD Federman, eds., ACP Medicine, section 10, chap. 11. New York: WebMD.
Punch JD (2006). Organ transplantation. In GM Doherty, LW Way, eds., Current Surgical Diagnosis and Treatment, 12th ed., pp. 1351–1369. New York: McGraw-Hill.
Trulock EP (2007). Lung transplantation. In DC Dale, DD Federman, eds., ACP Medicine, section 14, chap. 17. New York: WebMD.
Paya C, et al. (2004). Efficacy and safety of valganciclovir vs. oral ganciclovir for prevention of cytomegalovirus disease in solid organ transplant recipients. American Journal of Transplant, 4(4): 611–620.
------
3) What you said was your friends said "He will be lucky to live 5 years. 2 or 3 is most likely." That is not what this data -- assuming it's correctly cited, and there is no reason to suspect it's not -- suggests. Either your friends are exaggerating, or you are.
Assume that you are 100% correct in what you are saying above. Four questions:
1) Is it your business or mine or anyone else's on this site?
2) If yes, is it tactful to post this information all over the internet?
3) If yes, does your post add anything that has not already been repeated ad nauseam by others?
4) If yes, do you think that you can post the paragraph saying "he is DOOMED" and the last two sentences?
Dude- he's just commenting on something that's just basic medical knowledge regarding liver transplants. Liver transplants are some serious shit. I'm surpised he's not taking an extended leave of absence or retiring all together. No need to get so angry at a poster - he said nothing crass.
Um, you're an idiot? I was just commenting on the fact that the media is saying all over the web that his prognosis is excellent and I was merely pointing out that that is not accurate reporting. So seeing as most of us on this site do care deeply for his health and are very saddened by this horrible reality, I thought we could talk about it cause, um, that's what forums are for.
If I was saying "Steve Jobs is an ass and deserves to die" then that would be different. Comprende'?
Sheeeesh ...... Go clean your Mac or something!
Pay him no mind- that guy has some chip on his shoulder. I wouldn't even bother trying to explain to him what you posted- it was quite clear and unbiased to me.
Keep it cool cause I am wrong on a lot of things but this is how I read it and this is how medical experts I have talked to KNOW IT.
Peace.
2) More important, if you guys (I am including AppleStud) had bothered, you'll have noticed that there are citations for this data .
i'm not discounting the stats. All i said was WebMD is a joke. Maybe not the best choice of words, but I was basing it on having a pretty good personal insight into emergency room medicine, and very often people will go to the ER saying, "webMD says i have xxx disorder or xxx disease" when in reality they have nothing close to such things. People go there to self-diagnose, which is incredibly stupid. It's not all about "how to properly apply a bandage." People go there for self-psychoanalysis, among other things about which they are clueless.
well, webMD is a joke, but what it's saying about transplants is bascally supports what was said earlier. There's a 75% chance he'll live to 5 years. After that, it's ALL borrowed time. 25% chance he won't make it five years. That's a pretty big chance.
It also depends on the reason for the transplant - in this case it's metastatic cancer which is a lot different that a transplant due to cirrhosis of the liver.
Seriously?
My daughter's in medical school and she says we have 2 livers!
Nah, just kidding! (about the livers not my daughter in Med school-Got her mother's brains, fortunately! )
Um, you're an idiot? I was just commenting on the fact that the media is saying all over the web that his prognosis is excellent and I was merely pointing out that that is not accurate reporting. So seeing as most of us on this site do care deeply for his health and are very saddened by this horrible reality, I thought we could talk about it cause, um, that's what forums are for.
If I was saying "Steve Jobs is an ass and deserves to die" then that would be different. Comprende'?
Sheeeesh ...... Go clean your Mac or something!
I will not respond to your personal attacks. They speak for themselves.
If you "care deeply", respect his privacy and keep quiet.
..... very often people will go to the ER saying, "webMD says i have xxx disorder or xxx disease" when in reality they have nothing close to such things. People go there to self-diagnose, which is incredibly stupid. It's not all about "how to properly apply a bandage." People go there for self-psychoanalysis, among other things about which they are clueless.
The stupidity of the people doing this has nothing to with the credibility of WebMD.
When you make sweeping assertions like you did, you risk lowering your own credibility.
I will not respond to your personal attacks. They speak for themselves.
If you "care deeply", respect his privacy and keep quiet.
Yawwwwn....... There is a difference between keeping quiet and being respectful. This is a respectful discussion while we try to figure out "what does this all mean" for a man we all have deep respect for. If you want to keep quiet then get off this forum.
Keep Quiet...... that is the funniest thing I have heard today. Hush everyone...... your highness is unwell and it is not to be discussed. Give me a break. This guy is one of my idols. Don't sit there and tell me to keep quiet.
I think you missed a spot on your Mac.......
Yawwwwn....... There is a difference between keeping quiet and being respectful. This is a respectful discussion while we try to figure out "what does this all mean" for a man we all have deep respect for. If you want to keep quiet then get off this forum.
Keep Quiet...... that is the funniest thing I have heard today. Hush everyone...... your highness is unwell and it is not to be discussed. Give me a break. This guy is one of my idols. Don't sit there and tell me to keep quiet.
I think you missed a spot on your Mac.......
You are making the incorrect assumption that I am defending Steve Jobs because of who he is and that I am a "fan". Just because "this guy is one of [your] idols" does not mean that you can take liberties and comment on his private life on the internet. It is indiscreet whether you are right or not and whether you are a fan or not. It is indiscreet when done about your father, you, me, a guy down the street or Steve Jobs.
You can disagree with my point but you should stop trying to insult me. I haven't insulted you and it is not inability that led to that. Learn how to discuss without insults.
No, that is about right. The FIVE YEAR RATE of liver transplant is 73% FIVE YEAR! If you are in the other 27% then you live shorter. Why does this not make sense to the media. The FIVE YEAR RATE??? Correct me if I'm wrong but it checks out with all the guys in the field I have talked to.
I think David Crosby is doing fine except for some pain (at least thats why he said he was smoking pot the last time he got busted, or was that the time before last) seems to be after his liver transplant in 1995. He has lived the life of a wild man - did not have cancer but has hardly followed the rules. You can apparently live quite a bit longer than the 2-5 years quoted by "those in the know" here.
kidneys.
Oh Kidneys! Of course! I'm always getting kidneys and eyes mixed up. Thank for helping me out there, Captain Obvious.
I think David Crosby is doing fine except for some pain (at least thats why he said he was smoking pot the last time he got busted, or was that the time before last) seems to be doing fine after his liver transplant in 1995. He has lived the life of a wild man - did not have cancer but has hardly followed the rules. You can apparently live quite a bit longer than the 2-5 years quoted by "those in the know" here.
Sssssshhhhh...... Let's not talk about it anymore......
Seriously, THIS is the kind of discussion I was looking for. That is awesome news. So there are some cases that really last a long time! Thanks for posting. Lets hope for the best. I will ask some more questions around in the field.
As far as privacy, I don't see the big deal. Why is it so hard to admit we are all frail and human? If I was CEO and didn't want any cameras at my window, I would say "come on in and lets talk about it". They would all soon go away. What is the harm is saying "Hey, I'm really sick. Pray for me." Instead of this undercover nonsense. I mean everyone has their way but I think the privacy road Steve takes is prideful and only makes it worse for him. Just my 2 cents.
I will not respond to your personal attacks. They speak for themselves.
If you "care deeply", respect his privacy and keep quiet.
Keep quiet? The poster is having an adult discussion regarding his illness. Your childish dismisals that we should ignore facts and not talk is ridiculous. And telling someone to "keep quiet" is a direct mean spirited attack in itself.
Sssssshhhhh...... Let's not talk about it anymore......
Seriously, THIS is the kind of discussion I was looking for. That is awesome news. So there are some cases that really last a long time! Thanks for posting. Lets hope for the best. I will ask some more questions around in the field.
As far as privacy, I don't see the big deal. Why is it so hard to admit we are all frail and human? If I was CEO and didn't want any cameras at my window, I would say "come on in and lets talk about it". They would all soon go away. What is the harm is saying "Hey, I'm really sick. Pray for me." Instead of this undercover nonsense. I mean everyone has their way but I think the privacy road Steve takes is prideful and only makes it worse for him. Just my 2 cents.
Right- look at Farrah- she put it right out there. Did Crosby have cirhossis of the liver or some form of cancer - a big difference.
Keep quiet? The poster is having an adult discussion regarding his illness.
Oh, I did not realise that the poster was ill- my apologies.