The math in this article is fuzzy at best. Was it proofed?
• 20 million to 17 million is nowhere near "easily doubled."
• How is 2 million in four weeks a tenth of 17 million in two months? We can't say what it is because we don't know the four week figures for Vista or XP, but it's somewhere near a quarter, if anything.
• How does 19 million Mac users equal less than one month of MS operating system sales? The closest relevant figure is the 20 million in two months for Vista.
I'm really struggling with the math here (NOT, but someone apparently was...). This sounds like an MS fanboy's dream... Please pay attention to numbers since any credibility this post had completely vanished with the basic mathematical errors that a high-school education should equip one to avoid.
I'm planning on getting a new PC for the Office Manager here at work as soon as I get a sec, and I'm already looking at having to go Vista because of it showing up in all the OEMS .
In the business world it still isn?t too hard to find XP machines. If you have any control over the process, you might want to look into it? Business providers still have XP machines?you just don?t see them in stores anymore. Heck, the so-called business representatives at stores like Best Buy can also order XP machines through their special retail channels. Just pretend you?re running a business.
man listen if there doing so good why is the stock doing so bad, and i can name you more than 50 windows users that i know and out of those 1 thought vista and tock it out and install the old xp because its too complicated he said, that report is bull and if you dont think it is just ask your local computer store and they will tell you its the worst thing they cough have made since vista came out msft lost more than 20billion and since apple introduce the iphone which is not even out they made over 15billion
This is silly. There's no way Apple can compete with Microsoft numbers. This is not exactly news.
What's far more interesting, is to see what Leopard brings to the table. Apple needs a big, big leap right now over Tiger - since the distance between Tiger and XP was pretty big, yet Vista has partially closed the gap with Tiger. Now, if Apple is to get any traction against Vista, they need to make the gap between Leopard and Vista at least as big as the gap between Tiger and XP. Why?
Remember when Win 95 came out? Right. Even though it was barely catching up to Apple's OS at the time, it was "close enough" - and it removed folks motivation for going to Apple "Win95 is almost as good as Apple's OS, so I'm staying with Microsoft". It pretty much gutted Apple. Before that, Apple had a fighting chance because Windows 3.1 etc. was just such a vastly inferior system.
And here we are again. Switching from XP to Tiger makes some sense, cause the differences are pretty big. If Vista is too close to what Leopard can do, Apple will get gutted again. Remeber, Apple cannot sustain their business based on their installed base. They MUST get people to switch to really get the numbers to grow (there are not enough people who have never had a computer before, so the only way to get a bigger market share is to take it away from Microsoft).
I don't know what "secret features" Leopard has, but so far I'm not overly impressed with Leopard (I do like Spaces, though).
It is in this context only that Vista matters - if it is "good enough" compared to Leopard, folks may not want to switch. If you already own a Nissan, you may not go for a Toyota (even if the Toyo is slightly better), but you may go for a BMW. This is why Leopard must blow Vista out of the water. And I fear, it may not. I guess all hope is now in those "secret features". We'll see if that's enough to get folks to switch in big numbers.
Yeah, this does happen in small businesses today, but it isn?t anywhere near as common as it was in the past. Any hospital big enough to require 2000 PCs, these days, would have a contract with a company such as IBM for their hardware. This hardware would be installed by the providing company (e.g. IBM) and would be pre-configured to meet the customer?s needs. IBM would not use or deploy Vista OEM licenses in these cases [nor would most of the computers meet Vista system requirements]. But don?t worry, Microsoft is getting their Vista ?sales? through plenty of other means.
ROFLMAO....I "AM" the Desktop Administrator for two hosptials well into the 3500 node range according to my last AD scan.
We do have a contract w/ Dell but no way in hell would I allow them to pre-install any image to put on our network. Thats what M$ made RIS server for. Rapid deployment with easily configured images and software packages via group policy. O wait thats right, Apple doesn't do that...huh?
Nevertheless, the sales will prove a potential barrier to Apple's own quest for a greater piece of the market. Upon its release in 2005, Mac OS X Tiger's success managed only a tenth of its Windows XP rival, selling 2 million copies in its first four weeks. Roughly 7 million copies were sold in the year as a whole.
It's pretty much impossible to buy a new WinPC without getting some version of Vista installed*
Windows marketshare is a hell of a lot greater than 10x that of OS X that the 20M to 2M comparison shows Vista is not being adopted quickly.
Installed base of Windows is several times greater now than 6 years ago when XP was introduced actually shows a severe lack of interest in Vista by consumers.
* I have several Brazilians staying with me right now. With the outrageously high cost of electronics in Brazil they have all purchased many devices. All the Windows notebooks purchased came with Vista and everyone of these notebooks ran excruciatingly slow, even the C2D notebooks with 1GB RAM. I installed Portuguese versions of XP on their systems, which obviously made even the el cheapo <$500 HP notebooks they bought run fairly fast. The problem I then found was that the support sites for these notebooks had absolutely NO drivers for XP. I then had to spend a very long time DLing and trying XP drivers for random model numbers whose specs looked similar and hunting down the compatible drivers from the actual hardware manufacture's site.
man listen if there doing so good why is the stock doing so bad, and i can name you more than 50 windows users that i know and out of those 1 thought vista and tock it out and install the old xp because its too complicated he said, that report is bull and if you dont think it is just ask your local computer store and they will tell you its the worst thing they cough have made since vista came out msft lost more than 20billion and since apple introduce the iphone which is not even out they made over 15billion
The math in this article is fuzzy at best. Was it proofed?
? 20 million to 17 million is nowhere near "easily doubled."
? How is 2 million in four weeks a tenth of 17 million in two months? We can't say what it is because we don't know the four week figures for Vista or XP, but it's somewhere near a quarter, if anything.
? How does 19 million Mac users equal less than one month of MS operating system sales? The closest relevant figure is the 20 million in two months for Vista.
I'm really struggling with the math here (NOT, but someone apparently was...). This sounds like an MS fanboy's dream... Please pay attention to numbers since any credibility this post had completely vanished with the basic mathematical errors that a high-school education should equip one to avoid.
What's far more interesting, is to see what Leopard brings to the table. Apple needs a big, big leap right now over Tiger - since the distance between Tiger and XP was pretty big, yet Vista has partially closed the gap with Tiger. ...
I think XP vs. OS X v10.0 is the correct comparison here, if we are basing off of time-relativity
ROFLMAO....I "AM" the Desktop Administrator for two hosptials well into the 3500 node range according to my last AD scan. […] We do have a contract w/ Dell but no way in hell would I allow them to pre-install any image to put on our network. Thats what M$ made RIS server for. Rapid deployment with easily configured images and software packages via group policy. O wait thats right, Apple doesn't do that...huh?
Huh? What does this have to do with my reply? If your company is purchasing these computers with Vista licenses, whoever is making that financial decision should be fired. Period. The only possible exception would be if your company is actually using Vista, which would absolutely astonish me. And this has nothing to do with Apple.
I looked at going for Vista, being a old XP Pro user and looked very hard at Vista, but with any MS OS, it's better to wait 18 months before even thinking about moving in that direction, so I decided to move over to a MacBook Pro, even though they are more expensive, which is one thing the is hindering Apple and it's sales. The other reason is that there are more apps written for Windows than Mac's. People don't want to loose the apps they know to another OS they hardly know anything about and don't have the time to search what a Mac can do. They want it now and they want it run like XP, well sort of.
The OP wrote: "Nevertheless, the sales will prove a potential barrier to Apple's own quest for a greater piece of the market."
What?! or What!? (I still wish that Time magazine had been able to make the interbang popular.)
Vista sales have no relevance to Mac OS X sales.
You can't avoid Vista if you are buying a new computer. (Yes, I know that you can still get XP installed, but you have to work at it if you are a consumer standing in the store.)
Apple is 3% (at best, with a tailwind) of the worldwide computer market.
So, let's do some assumptions:
1. Computer growth is flat.
2. Apple increases its share by 50%. That is huge in case you were not paying attention.
3. Therefore, Windows share falls by 2% (at most). OMG.
This is right up there with: "zillions of people bought gasoline (petrol) powered automobiles last week which will prove a barrier to electric car's quest for a greater piece of the market."
1) 20 million in one month is double the rate of 17 million in two months.
2) 2 million in four weeks (28 days, a la February) is one tenth of 20 million
3) 20 million Vista's sold in one month > 19 million Mac users
I think you're right.
There is some casual mirth in the comments here that seem like people are looking for any reason at all to bash MSFT. I am not a fan either, but let's be fair. If they sold 20 million in the first month, that is really quite impressive (and certainly much more than anyone in many forums such as AI predicted). It is also consistent with MSFT's typical stategy of managing expectations down (Zune was an exception, but the guy in charge is gone).
Of course the right benchmark is a much smaller number for Leopard, but nonetheless, a doubling. But I am not optimistic about that since 10.5 doesn't seem that radical compared to 10.4.X.
Someone commented earlier about the stock having gone sideways. Broadly, it is up about $6 - $7 since it hit a low during the middle of last year, now trading at about $28+ (it went up by over $10, as high as $31+ pre-Vista release, perhaps because of some overoptimism). That ain't chump change: It's gain of about $60 billion (about three-quarters of the total market cap of Apple).
Comments
• 20 million to 17 million is nowhere near "easily doubled."
• How is 2 million in four weeks a tenth of 17 million in two months? We can't say what it is because we don't know the four week figures for Vista or XP, but it's somewhere near a quarter, if anything.
• How does 19 million Mac users equal less than one month of MS operating system sales? The closest relevant figure is the 20 million in two months for Vista.
I'm really struggling with the math here (NOT, but someone apparently was...). This sounds like an MS fanboy's dream... Please pay attention to numbers since any credibility this post had completely vanished with the basic mathematical errors that a high-school education should equip one to avoid.
I'm planning on getting a new PC for the Office Manager here at work as soon as I get a sec, and I'm already looking at having to go Vista because of it showing up in all the OEMS
In the business world it still isn?t too hard to find XP machines. If you have any control over the process, you might want to look into it? Business providers still have XP machines?you just don?t see them in stores anymore. Heck, the so-called business representatives at stores like Best Buy can also order XP machines through their special retail channels. Just pretend you?re running a business.
What's far more interesting, is to see what Leopard brings to the table. Apple needs a big, big leap right now over Tiger - since the distance between Tiger and XP was pretty big, yet Vista has partially closed the gap with Tiger. Now, if Apple is to get any traction against Vista, they need to make the gap between Leopard and Vista at least as big as the gap between Tiger and XP. Why?
Remember when Win 95 came out? Right. Even though it was barely catching up to Apple's OS at the time, it was "close enough" - and it removed folks motivation for going to Apple "Win95 is almost as good as Apple's OS, so I'm staying with Microsoft". It pretty much gutted Apple. Before that, Apple had a fighting chance because Windows 3.1 etc. was just such a vastly inferior system.
And here we are again. Switching from XP to Tiger makes some sense, cause the differences are pretty big. If Vista is too close to what Leopard can do, Apple will get gutted again. Remeber, Apple cannot sustain their business based on their installed base. They MUST get people to switch to really get the numbers to grow (there are not enough people who have never had a computer before, so the only way to get a bigger market share is to take it away from Microsoft).
I don't know what "secret features" Leopard has, but so far I'm not overly impressed with Leopard (I do like Spaces, though).
It is in this context only that Vista matters - if it is "good enough" compared to Leopard, folks may not want to switch. If you already own a Nissan, you may not go for a Toyota (even if the Toyo is slightly better), but you may go for a BMW. This is why Leopard must blow Vista out of the water. And I fear, it may not. I guess all hope is now in those "secret features". We'll see if that's enough to get folks to switch in big numbers.
Yeah, this does happen in small businesses today, but it isn?t anywhere near as common as it was in the past. Any hospital big enough to require 2000 PCs, these days, would have a contract with a company such as IBM for their hardware. This hardware would be installed by the providing company (e.g. IBM) and would be pre-configured to meet the customer?s needs. IBM would not use or deploy Vista OEM licenses in these cases [nor would most of the computers meet Vista system requirements]. But don?t worry, Microsoft is getting their Vista ?sales? through plenty of other means.
ROFLMAO....I "AM" the Desktop Administrator for two hosptials well into the 3500 node range according to my last AD scan.
We do have a contract w/ Dell but no way in hell would I allow them to pre-install any image to put on our network. Thats what M$ made RIS server for. Rapid deployment with easily configured images and software packages via group policy. O wait thats right, Apple doesn't do that...huh?
All I care about is that Leopard sells enough copies to stick around and is useful enough for Apple to continue development. 2mil copies? bueno.
Nevertheless, the sales will prove a potential barrier to Apple's own quest for a greater piece of the market. Upon its release in 2005, Mac OS X Tiger's success managed only a tenth of its Windows XP rival, selling 2 million copies in its first four weeks. Roughly 7 million copies were sold in the year as a whole.
* I have several Brazilians staying with me right now. With the outrageously high cost of electronics in Brazil they have all purchased many devices. All the Windows notebooks purchased came with Vista and everyone of these notebooks ran excruciatingly slow, even the C2D notebooks with 1GB RAM. I installed Portuguese versions of XP on their systems, which obviously made even the el cheapo <$500 HP notebooks they bought run fairly fast. The problem I then found was that the support sites for these notebooks had absolutely NO drivers for XP. I then had to spend a very long time DLing and trying XP drivers for random model numbers whose specs looked similar and hunting down the compatible drivers from the actual hardware manufacture's site.
In other words, Microsoft are being a little economical with the truth in their press release. I don't think anyone at Apple is 'daunted' just yet.
Good find, the SeattlePI article is better, you get every point of view (Microsoft, Gartner and NPD) and no nonsense about Apple.
man listen if there doing so good why is the stock doing so bad, and i can name you more than 50 windows users that i know and out of those 1 thought vista and tock it out and install the old xp because its too complicated he said, that report is bull and if you dont think it is just ask your local computer store and they will tell you its the worst thing they cough have made since vista came out msft lost more than 20billion and since apple introduce the iphone which is not even out they made over 15billion
Well said!
The math in this article is fuzzy at best. Was it proofed?
? 20 million to 17 million is nowhere near "easily doubled."
? How is 2 million in four weeks a tenth of 17 million in two months? We can't say what it is because we don't know the four week figures for Vista or XP, but it's somewhere near a quarter, if anything.
? How does 19 million Mac users equal less than one month of MS operating system sales? The closest relevant figure is the 20 million in two months for Vista.
I'm really struggling with the math here (NOT, but someone apparently was...). This sounds like an MS fanboy's dream... Please pay attention to numbers since any credibility this post had completely vanished with the basic mathematical errors that a high-school education should equip one to avoid.
The numbers weren't appropriately framed in the Appleinsider story. The 20 million copies were sold "in" February. With that number the following is now possible.
1) 20 million in one month is double the rate of 17 million in two months.
2) 2 million in four weeks (28 days, a la February) is one tenth of 20 million
3) 20 million Vista's sold in one month > 19 million Mac users
What's far more interesting, is to see what Leopard brings to the table. Apple needs a big, big leap right now over Tiger - since the distance between Tiger and XP was pretty big, yet Vista has partially closed the gap with Tiger. ...
I think XP vs. OS X v10.0 is the correct comparison here, if we are basing off of time-relativity
ROFLMAO....I "AM" the Desktop Administrator for two hosptials well into the 3500 node range according to my last AD scan. […] We do have a contract w/ Dell but no way in hell would I allow them to pre-install any image to put on our network. Thats what M$ made RIS server for. Rapid deployment with easily configured images and software packages via group policy. O wait thats right, Apple doesn't do that...huh?
Huh? What does this have to do with my reply? If your company is purchasing these computers with Vista licenses, whoever is making that financial decision should be fired. Period. The only possible exception would be if your company is actually using Vista, which would absolutely astonish me. And this has nothing to do with Apple.
What?! or What!? (I still wish that Time magazine had been able to make the interbang popular.)
Vista sales have no relevance to Mac OS X sales.
You can't avoid Vista if you are buying a new computer. (Yes, I know that you can still get XP installed, but you have to work at it if you are a consumer standing in the store.)
Apple is 3% (at best, with a tailwind) of the worldwide computer market.
So, let's do some assumptions:
1. Computer growth is flat.
2. Apple increases its share by 50%. That is huge in case you were not paying attention.
3. Therefore, Windows share falls by 2% (at most). OMG.
This is right up there with: "zillions of people bought gasoline (petrol) powered automobiles last week which will prove a barrier to electric car's quest for a greater piece of the market."
The OP is a retard (my ad hominem attack).
The numbers weren't appropriately framed in the Appleinsider story. The 20 million copies were sold "in" February. With that number the following is now possible.
1) 20 million in one month is double the rate of 17 million in two months.
2) 2 million in four weeks (28 days, a la February) is one tenth of 20 million
3) 20 million Vista's sold in one month > 19 million Mac users
I think you're right.
There is some casual mirth in the comments here that seem like people are looking for any reason at all to bash MSFT. I am not a fan either, but let's be fair. If they sold 20 million in the first month, that is really quite impressive (and certainly much more than anyone in many forums such as AI predicted). It is also consistent with MSFT's typical stategy of managing expectations down (Zune was an exception, but the guy in charge is gone).
Of course the right benchmark is a much smaller number for Leopard, but nonetheless, a doubling. But I am not optimistic about that since 10.5 doesn't seem that radical compared to 10.4.X.
Someone commented earlier about the stock having gone sideways. Broadly, it is up about $6 - $7 since it hit a low during the middle of last year, now trading at about $28+ (it went up by over $10, as high as $31+ pre-Vista release, perhaps because of some overoptimism). That ain't chump change: It's gain of about $60 billion (about three-quarters of the total market cap of Apple).