I?ve been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and I?m mystified. I?m probably too dense or something. I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops.
...
Please set me straight. What am I missing?
You simply don't see the need to change your computing venue. Other people see it as a critical need.
Did that laptop have wireless networking that worked?
I have a laptop (1.83 GHz MacBook, planning to upgrade to Penryn-based 15" MacBook Pro as soon as they are available). Most of the time, I use it at my desk with my external keyboard, mouse, and 20" widescreen monitor. However, it is very nice to be able to unplug the external stuff and use the laptop around the house. I've used it to watch streaming live television whilst in the kitchen (occasionally), and, more often, to surf the web whilst sitting on my sofa in the sitting room - that's especially useful when watching Formula One and using the F1 website to view official live timing at the same time as watching the race.
Currently, I don't have an LCD tv, but when I do, I dare say I'll occasionally connect up the laptop to the LCD, and to the surround-sound amp via the optical cable to view computer-bound video files.
Lastly, of course, it's useful to be able to take my computer out of the house on occasion.
I?ve been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and I?m mystified. I?m probably too dense or something. I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?
I?ve taught at a local college for over 18 years, know many faculty and staff, and know only one who has a laptop ? and it?s a very old one.- the laptop, not the professor.
All the IT?s have a desktop at home and use desktops at work. The IT?s who had had them have given up laptops and now carry a USB drive back and forth to work. I had lunch today with two Engineering and Computer Department PHD?s from Florida International Univ. Our discussions revolved around desktops and workstations. Neither of them would consider a laptop.
I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago. With all the paraphernalia, sleeves, and such, I might as well have been toting around a desktop. Opening and closing it with all those accoutrements was sheer agony. I hated the keyboard and the small screen. I was not productive at all. (I now have two 22" displays and find that's minimal.)
That PC lasted me four weeks before I gave it to my daughter. She used it for a few months, dropped it, and that was the end of the laptop. We never even considered getting it repaired.
Please set me straight. What am I missing?
I don't think you're missing anything. I simply don't agree with the "laptop as desktop" theory.
If you read Vinea's posts, you can see just why it won't work for most, too complex, and too expensive.
But, it does work for some.
But, many people want laptops, because they want, or need, to compute away from the home or office. Some people need a computer on the road more than they need a desktop. for them, a laptop is best. The few times they'll use it at home or at the office, they can put up with the annoyances.
Students like them because they can carry them around the campus, where WiFi is usually ubiquitous. Then they can download lectures, homework, etc, as well as music, They have little room in a dorm, usually, so a laptop fits well.
Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.
Don't count on it. Some parts of memory chips are already only a few atoms thick. You can't get thinner than one atom. Once they've got down to those areas being only one atom thick, that's a "brick wall". Alternative topologies are being worked on, but it remains to be seen if they'll be viable for mass production, and if they are, whether they'll be ready by the time that "brick wall" hits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapp
It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.
Except, it's not just silicon. It's silicon that's been made extremely pure, then had lots of stuff added to it, and bits taken away from it, in very clever ways. It's all that processing that makes it expensive.
Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.
Agreed. And let's not forget that the "swing to laptops" is actually only in percentage terms. Both the desktop market and the laptop market are growing, it's just that laptops are growing faster than desktops, so the % share for laptops of the overall market is increasing.
And let's not forget that the "swing to laptops" is actually only in percentage terms. Both the desktop market and the laptop market are growing, it's just that laptops are growing faster than desktops, so the % share for laptops of the overall market is increasing.
It would be interesting to see some numbers on the percentage of laptop owners who also have a desktop computer. I think a large number of users aren't deciding between one or the other, but combining the best of two worlds.
It would be interesting to see some numbers on the percentage of laptop owners who also have a desktop computer. I think a large number of users aren't deciding between one or the other, but combining the best of two worlds.
I?ve been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and I?m mystified. I?m probably too dense or something. I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?
I?ve taught at a local college for over 18 years, know many faculty and staff, and know only one who has a laptop ? and it?s a very old one.- the laptop, not the professor.
All the IT?s have a desktop at home and use desktops at work. The IT?s who had had them have given up laptops and now carry a USB drive back and forth to work. I had lunch today with two Engineering and Computer Department PHD?s from Florida International Univ. Our discussions revolved around desktops and workstations. Neither of them would consider a laptop.
I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago. With all the paraphernalia, sleeves, and such, I might as well have been toting around a desktop. Opening and closing it with all those accoutrements was sheer agony. I hated the keyboard and the small screen. I was not productive at all. (I now have two 22" displays and find that's minimal.)
That PC lasted me four weeks before I gave it to my daughter. She used it for a few months, dropped it, and that was the end of the laptop. We never even considered getting it repaired.
Please set me straight. What am I missing?
I am in total agreement with your train of thought. Nevertheless some people do need their computer on the go more than others, and some have both for that versatility. If I had to chose it would be a workstation. If I wanted both... Well we'll se what Apple does this year. Maybe I will have a portable besides my iPhone. I am spending more time on the road, but I still couldn't do without a workstation.
So i only started coming to this site because i was in the market for a new computer and the idea was to wait for the new iMac to replace my first and only Apple computer a Mac Mini. In the time since starting reading this forum i have actually purchased a MacBook Pro. It was only through this site that i realised that the iMac is really just a MBP with a bigger screen and more storage space anyway. Of course by the time i buy a new Apple display (maybe see some new ones released along with the iMac) i would have spent at least twice as much as i would have on an Imac for me it is probably worth it.
I am writing this post while lounging on my balcony drinking my morning coffee and smoking my morning cigarettes, you cannot do this on an iMac, this is why the laptop is becoming more popular, the huge uptake in home wireless networks is proof that more and more people are going mobile with their computers. As for the idea that the swing is going back towards desktops i really think that as one or two other posters have mentioned many people are know buying both. Once you have a laptop and start to mess with video editing and photo editing etc.. a more powerful desktop becomes the obvious choice (obviously aimed at MB owners rather than MBP).
Storage Space is a misleading one, anyone who argues that the biggest negative for a portable rather than a desktop is the lack of storage space is just missing the point. The idea of your computer also housing your media is dead in the water, you should not be housing your media in your computer anyway. This is the age of the home network, media should be stored on external network attached drives, preferably with back-up. 100GB is all the storage you should ever need on your computer, plenty to house the OS and all your applications plus enough left over for temp media files and project files. I would have said upgradability would be the key but iMacs don't even offer that, as for power iMacs are no more powerful than a MBP.
When i go on holiday i can take my computer with me, when i travel on business i can take my work PC and my home MBP with me, when i go to friends houses i can take my new photos, or music or videos ... whatever with me. I can go out for breakfast and sit in a cafe for an hour this morning and instead of reading the newspaper can browse the web. On a flight i can watch my own movies instead of the family friendly edited crap that everyone else gets to watch.
Anyway i have probably rabbled on for long enough now and am not even sure what my point is, actually what is my point? Notebooks are here to stay, dont think otherwise. I guess.
If you read Vinea's posts, you can see just why it won't work for most, too complex, and too expensive.
But, it does work for some.
But, many people want laptops, because they want, or need, to compute away from the home or office. Some people need a computer on the road more than they need a desktop. for them, a laptop is best. The few times they'll use it at home or at the office, they can put up with the annoyances.
Students like them because they can carry them around the campus, where WiFi is usually ubiquitous. Then they can download lectures, homework, etc, as well as music, They have little room in a dorm, usually, so a laptop fits well.
Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.
Too complex? I'm not sure I catch your drift there. Expensive yes. Apple's lineup minimizes the cost difference between laptops and desktops by not having budget desktop models and by having attractively priced MB. Is it any wonder MBs are the best selling Mac?
While I don't see desktops going away, they support the low and performance ends of the market, I think laptops will continue to expand market share vs. desktops. As you have pointed out yourself, iMacs are powerful enough for all but the most demanding users. Like Vinea said what can an iMac do that a MBP can't'? Maybe that'll change on Tuesday and you can point out the differences. But today there really isn't any difference. Not having multiple machines in which to sync files is a very nice advantage of having just one machine (laptop). Syncing is just as big a pain in the ass as backing up and as you've pointed out most people are lazy about backing up.
When WiMax arrives I think laptops will be even more appealing as broadband access will be ubiquitous. Right now the only advantage that an iMac has over a MBP is cost and perhaps reliability.
When i go on holiday i can take my computer with me, when i travel on business i can take my work PC and my home MBP with me, when i go to friends houses i can take my new photos, or music or videos ... whatever with me. I can go out for breakfast and sit in a cafe for an hour this morning and instead of reading the newspaper can browse the web. On a flight i can watch my own movies instead of the family friendly edited crap that everyone else gets to watch.
We need a thumbs up emoticon because you nailed it. That flexibility you get with a laptop is priceless and now there is no performance penalty.
Too complex? I'm not sure I catch your drift there.
I think he was referring to the docking (although imaginary iDock shouldn't figure in here), and hooking up to external displays, keyboards, mice, drives, and other peripherals that are needed to make it more of a desktop. Actually doing this makes it into a small expensive tower while being docked.
I think he was referring to the docking (although imaginary iDock shouldn't figure in here), and hooking up to external displays, keyboards, mice, drives, and other peripherals that are needed to make it more of a desktop. Actually doing this makes it into a small expensive tower while being docked.
OK. I don't agree but now I see where he's coming from.
Why should this memory cost anything really? There was a time (when I was in high school?) when 32KB RAM cost $900. There will be a time when 32TB costs $32. It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.
Oxygen is the most plentiful substance in the rocks of the crust of the earth. Silicon is #2, followed by aluminum.\
Comments
Help me out here.
I?ve been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and I?m mystified. I?m probably too dense or something. I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops.
...
Please set me straight. What am I missing?
You simply don't see the need to change your computing venue. Other people see it as a critical need.
I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago.
Please set me straight. What am I missing?
Did that laptop have wireless networking that worked?
I have a laptop (1.83 GHz MacBook, planning to upgrade to Penryn-based 15" MacBook Pro as soon as they are available). Most of the time, I use it at my desk with my external keyboard, mouse, and 20" widescreen monitor. However, it is very nice to be able to unplug the external stuff and use the laptop around the house. I've used it to watch streaming live television whilst in the kitchen (occasionally), and, more often, to surf the web whilst sitting on my sofa in the sitting room - that's especially useful when watching Formula One and using the F1 website to view official live timing at the same time as watching the race.
Currently, I don't have an LCD tv, but when I do, I dare say I'll occasionally connect up the laptop to the LCD, and to the surround-sound amp via the optical cable to view computer-bound video files.
Lastly, of course, it's useful to be able to take my computer out of the house on occasion.
Help me out here.
I?ve been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and I?m mystified. I?m probably too dense or something. I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?
I?ve taught at a local college for over 18 years, know many faculty and staff, and know only one who has a laptop ? and it?s a very old one.- the laptop, not the professor.
All the IT?s have a desktop at home and use desktops at work. The IT?s who had had them have given up laptops and now carry a USB drive back and forth to work. I had lunch today with two Engineering and Computer Department PHD?s from Florida International Univ. Our discussions revolved around desktops and workstations. Neither of them would consider a laptop.
I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago. With all the paraphernalia, sleeves, and such, I might as well have been toting around a desktop. Opening and closing it with all those accoutrements was sheer agony. I hated the keyboard and the small screen. I was not productive at all. (I now have two 22" displays and find that's minimal.)
That PC lasted me four weeks before I gave it to my daughter. She used it for a few months, dropped it, and that was the end of the laptop. We never even considered getting it repaired.
Please set me straight. What am I missing?
I don't think you're missing anything. I simply don't agree with the "laptop as desktop" theory.
If you read Vinea's posts, you can see just why it won't work for most, too complex, and too expensive.
But, it does work for some.
But, many people want laptops, because they want, or need, to compute away from the home or office. Some people need a computer on the road more than they need a desktop. for them, a laptop is best. The few times they'll use it at home or at the office, they can put up with the annoyances.
Students like them because they can carry them around the campus, where WiFi is usually ubiquitous. Then they can download lectures, homework, etc, as well as music, They have little room in a dorm, usually, so a laptop fits well.
Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.
Why should this memory cost anything really?
Why should whatever you do for work cost your customers anything?
There will be a time when 32TB costs $32.
Yes, and that time is not now, nor any time soon.
It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.
Try getting some silicon from the beach and sticking it in your Mac, then. See how that goes.
There will be a time when 32TB costs $32.
Don't count on it. Some parts of memory chips are already only a few atoms thick. You can't get thinner than one atom. Once they've got down to those areas being only one atom thick, that's a "brick wall". Alternative topologies are being worked on, but it remains to be seen if they'll be viable for mass production, and if they are, whether they'll be ready by the time that "brick wall" hits.
It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.
Except, it's not just silicon. It's silicon that's been made extremely pure, then had lots of stuff added to it, and bits taken away from it, in very clever ways. It's all that processing that makes it expensive.
Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.
Agreed. And let's not forget that the "swing to laptops" is actually only in percentage terms. Both the desktop market and the laptop market are growing, it's just that laptops are growing faster than desktops, so the % share for laptops of the overall market is increasing.
And let's not forget that the "swing to laptops" is actually only in percentage terms. Both the desktop market and the laptop market are growing, it's just that laptops are growing faster than desktops, so the % share for laptops of the overall market is increasing.
It would be interesting to see some numbers on the percentage of laptop owners who also have a desktop computer. I think a large number of users aren't deciding between one or the other, but combining the best of two worlds.
It would be interesting to see some numbers on the percentage of laptop owners who also have a desktop computer. I think a large number of users aren't deciding between one or the other, but combining the best of two worlds.
Agreed!
Help me out here.
I?ve been listening to you guys argue throughout this thread, and I?m mystified. I?m probably too dense or something. I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?
I?ve taught at a local college for over 18 years, know many faculty and staff, and know only one who has a laptop ? and it?s a very old one.- the laptop, not the professor.
All the IT?s have a desktop at home and use desktops at work. The IT?s who had had them have given up laptops and now carry a USB drive back and forth to work. I had lunch today with two Engineering and Computer Department PHD?s from Florida International Univ. Our discussions revolved around desktops and workstations. Neither of them would consider a laptop.
I bought a laptop (PC) a bunch of years ago. With all the paraphernalia, sleeves, and such, I might as well have been toting around a desktop. Opening and closing it with all those accoutrements was sheer agony. I hated the keyboard and the small screen. I was not productive at all. (I now have two 22" displays and find that's minimal.)
That PC lasted me four weeks before I gave it to my daughter. She used it for a few months, dropped it, and that was the end of the laptop. We never even considered getting it repaired.
Please set me straight. What am I missing?
I am in total agreement with your train of thought. Nevertheless some people do need their computer on the go more than others, and some have both for that versatility. If I had to chose it would be a workstation. If I wanted both... Well we'll se what Apple does this year. Maybe I will have a portable besides my iPhone. I am spending more time on the road, but I still couldn't do without a workstation.
I am writing this post while lounging on my balcony drinking my morning coffee and smoking my morning cigarettes, you cannot do this on an iMac, this is why the laptop is becoming more popular, the huge uptake in home wireless networks is proof that more and more people are going mobile with their computers. As for the idea that the swing is going back towards desktops i really think that as one or two other posters have mentioned many people are know buying both. Once you have a laptop and start to mess with video editing and photo editing etc.. a more powerful desktop becomes the obvious choice (obviously aimed at MB owners rather than MBP).
Storage Space is a misleading one, anyone who argues that the biggest negative for a portable rather than a desktop is the lack of storage space is just missing the point. The idea of your computer also housing your media is dead in the water, you should not be housing your media in your computer anyway. This is the age of the home network, media should be stored on external network attached drives, preferably with back-up. 100GB is all the storage you should ever need on your computer, plenty to house the OS and all your applications plus enough left over for temp media files and project files. I would have said upgradability would be the key but iMacs don't even offer that, as for power iMacs are no more powerful than a MBP.
When i go on holiday i can take my computer with me, when i travel on business i can take my work PC and my home MBP with me, when i go to friends houses i can take my new photos, or music or videos ... whatever with me. I can go out for breakfast and sit in a cafe for an hour this morning and instead of reading the newspaper can browse the web. On a flight i can watch my own movies instead of the family friendly edited crap that everyone else gets to watch.
Anyway i have probably rabbled on for long enough now and am not even sure what my point is, actually what is my point? Notebooks are here to stay, dont think otherwise. I guess.
Anyway i have probably rabbled on for long enough now and am not even sure what my point is, actually what is my point?
If you read Vinea's posts, you can see just why it won't work for most, too complex, and too expensive.
But, it does work for some.
But, many people want laptops, because they want, or need, to compute away from the home or office. Some people need a computer on the road more than they need a desktop. for them, a laptop is best. The few times they'll use it at home or at the office, they can put up with the annoyances.
Students like them because they can carry them around the campus, where WiFi is usually ubiquitous. Then they can download lectures, homework, etc, as well as music, They have little room in a dorm, usually, so a laptop fits well.
Unlike some, however, I think that the swing to laptops will, at some point, stop. Things will stabilize, possibly even move back to a certain extent. Those who think otherwise have blinders on.
Too complex?
While I don't see desktops going away, they support the low and performance ends of the market, I think laptops will continue to expand market share vs. desktops. As you have pointed out yourself, iMacs are powerful enough for all but the most demanding users. Like Vinea said what can an iMac do that a MBP can't'? Maybe that'll change on Tuesday and you can point out the differences. But today there really isn't any difference. Not having multiple machines in which to sync files is a very nice advantage of having just one machine (laptop). Syncing is just as big a pain in the ass as backing up and as you've pointed out most people are lazy about backing up.
When WiMax arrives I think laptops will be even more appealing as broadband access will be ubiquitous. Right now the only advantage that an iMac has over a MBP is cost and perhaps reliability.
When i go on holiday i can take my computer with me, when i travel on business i can take my work PC and my home MBP with me, when i go to friends houses i can take my new photos, or music or videos ... whatever with me. I can go out for breakfast and sit in a cafe for an hour this morning and instead of reading the newspaper can browse the web. On a flight i can watch my own movies instead of the family friendly edited crap that everyone else gets to watch.
We need a thumbs up emoticon because you nailed it. That flexibility you get with a laptop is priceless and now there is no performance penalty.
Too complex?
I think he was referring to the docking (although imaginary iDock shouldn't figure in here), and hooking up to external displays, keyboards, mice, drives, and other peripherals that are needed to make it more of a desktop. Actually doing this makes it into a small expensive tower while being docked.
I think he was referring to the docking (although imaginary iDock shouldn't figure in here), and hooking up to external displays, keyboards, mice, drives, and other peripherals that are needed to make it more of a desktop. Actually doing this makes it into a small expensive tower while being docked.
OK. I don't agree but now I see where he's coming from.
Why should this memory cost anything really? There was a time (when I was in high school?) when 32KB RAM cost $900. There will be a time when 32TB costs $32. It's just silicon, which is the most plentiful substance in the crust of the earth.
Oxygen is the most plentiful substance in the rocks of the crust of the earth. Silicon is #2, followed by aluminum.
http://www.gateway.com/programs/profile6/
(Sorry, I had a long post previously, but it was deleted or not posted for some reason).
For a REAL shock, try their T our part way down the right side to see the brilliance (not) of their design team!!!!
This event will contain 2 new products and an iMac update.
First the iMac
20" and 24"
2GB RAM std
2.2Ghz & 2.4Ghz Meroms
250GB Std on 20" and 500GB Std on 24"
Desktop nVidia GPUs
eSATA
Prices:
20" $1299
24" $1599
Secondly the Brand New MacBook Pro Nano
13.3" LED Screen
1.06Ghz & 1.2GHZ ULV processors
80GB HDD
2GB RAM
nVidia 8400m GPU
.8" Thick
2.5LBS
Magnesium Alloy
Magnetic Latch
Preview of what the next gen MBP 15" and 17" will look like
Price: $2099
Lastly the New xMac
2.33Ghz to 3.0 Ghz Core 2 Duo Processors
2GB RAM Std.
nVidia 8800 GTX GPU available
250GB-750GB HDD
Thinner and shorter than the Mac Pro but same Aluminum case.
Price: Starting at $899
I think the new iMac will look like this:
http://www.gateway.com/programs/profile6/
:
That beast is truly hideous.