Wow I honestly don't think AppleTV, iMac, MacPro or Mac mini would fit your bill. Not being an Apple snob, just honest...
I can't go with that. I've got over 1,000 LP's to digitize, and I'm doing it with a Mini. I see that as a great machine for the job. not too expensive, small, so that it cam be moved anywhere. I connect it to the (hi def) Tv when it's being used. A keyboard is pretty cheap these days so I can have one just for this putpose, and I don't need the numeric pad, so it can be a small one. It's more than fast enough for Pro Tools, though one doesn't need that for this purpose.
The Mini definitely has a place in the market... it's just a matter of how it fits in the market compared to other form factors. I'd like some real numbers, but I've been "hearing" the mini hasn't been selling that well.
Even allowing for the lack of DVD , the case, even if we pretend that the keyboard doesn't extend into it, has much less room than the current Mini, which as we all know, is too small for a GPU already. Remembering that the Mini uses a 2.5" drive, even using the far more expensive, and much smaller capacity SSD's, there would no way to cool the thing.
Even allowing for the lack of DVD , the case, even if we pretend that the keyboard doesn't extend into it, has much less room than the current Mini, which as we all know, is too small for a GPU already. Remembering that the Mini uses a 2.5" drive, even using the far more expensive, and much smaller capacity SSD's, there would no way to cool the thing.
Nice fantasy.
And I don't see why the average person would really want it.
What is so appealing about a tiny computer that is never going to be that portable since it requires a monitor and plugging into a wall? People who want portability already have laptops (which are pretty much all better equipped than a mini anyway).
I just don't see the need for a desktop to be super small. Make a slightly bigger unit and give it better specs. Either go midtower or stereo component form factor (pizza box).
I couldn't agree more in terms of a computer being small enough. Yes, the mini is already small enough. Making it smaller serves no purpose to me. I can see reason for changing the mini's shape into something sexier... something to show off on a desk or in an entertainment center. Something that looks as much art as computer, yet still priced low enough to be a starter/switcher Mac. But aside from that, there's no need to make it smaller at all, until we're talking about making it so small that it serves as both a portable and a desktop. I'm talking about something the size of an iPod, but with the performance of the current mini if not better. We're still years away from that, however. And, really, that's not the purpose of the mini anyway.
Just what I wanted... all of my cables dangling across my desk. 4 USBs, 2 firewires, a monitor, a power cord. Cables are pretty.
You owe us all a cartridge slot though. Seriously, I used to own a computer just like the one in your mockup. The year was 1982, and it was a TI99 4A. OK, in fairness, it was my father's. Not many elementary schoolers had the kind of cash required to buy a beast like the TI99 4A.
A mini-tower-MAC (more along the form factor of Shuttle PCs) would definitely be a plus. ... The current mini form factor constrains storage and graphics options to great extent. It should also be possible to provide better cooling with almost no noise in a larger form factor.
Couldn't. Agree. More.
100% dead on.
Yes, yes, and more yes.
Quote:
Another option would be a "Mac media" in a stereo component like form factor with a built in TV tuner & cable card slot. Intel has spent a lot of time and effort developing such form factors and no PC vendor has been able to push these to market successfully. Apple is certainly capable of pulling this off.
Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet.
And I don't see why the average person would really want it.
What is so appealing about a tiny computer that is never going to be that portable since it requires a monitor and plugging into a wall? People who want portability already have laptops (which are pretty much all better equipped than a mini anyway).
I just don't see the need for a desktop to be super small. Make a slightly bigger unit and give it better specs. Either go midtower or stereo component form factor (pizza box).
If it could be made to work, though a bit larger, and thicker, there could be some uses. My use for my Mini in digitizing my LP collection would be one use, the computer for control of the audio/video system.
you could also take it with you, rather than that hypothetical iPod, and plug it into a monitor somewhere else. I've had plenty of monitors with two inputs. My current one has two.
I wouldnt consider this to be a desktop machine therefore.
I'm not sure how much of a market it would have though.
Keyboards are so much a personal preference that I wouldn't like to see one attached to a desktop.
Monitors are pretty personal as well, yet ... I really liked my A1200. The Amiga was ahead of its time but hampered by PAL and NTSC restrictions. I guess one problem with having the keyboard include the computer is that getting the video to the HDTV would be a pain. You don't want wires all over the place, and unplugging, etc... It's the same problem laptops have, as well as iMac's. In fact the more I think about it the iPhone/iPod touch and Mac Mini are the only computer products which make sense for a consumer not interested in 3-D gaming. It won't be long before laptops are replaced by things like them.
Ok so what would be the best scenario for my situation??? Over 800 DVDs I want to rip to hdd .. Audio needs to be ac3 (Dolby digital)..reciever will accept optical.. All content is 480p....xbox360 in the mix...have 1 media center 2005 server on the network as well as 1 vista ultimate box on the network...would like to rip these to external usb drives and access them from the tv with the easiest interface... What type of video rip are we talking about here? Apple tv is out because of the lack of 5.1 right? What about a mini? What are your thoughts? Btw sorry if this is a little off topic
A Mac Mini is definitely the way to go for what you want to do. There is an inexpensive multiple HDMI box available at the Apple store if you need more HDMI ports. I have the Mini going to the TV and on a gigabit network with a Vista box and several Mac's. I use a wireless keyboard made by nmediapc which costs $45 and includes a neat trackball (small). Great range, works with osx, don't need to deal with a remote mouse and keyboard, etc.... I have a 500gig La Cie USB drive attached to the Mini and lot's of stuff in the PC...
As for the rip part, I am not an expert but what's wrong with divx/xvid or .mp4 ?
A mini-tower-MAC (more along the form factor of Shuttle PCs) would definitely be a plus. There is already AppleTV for those who want something really small to use as a media center. The current mini form factor constrains storage and graphics options to great extent. It should also be possible to provide better cooling with almost no noise in a larger form factor.
Another option would be a "Mac media" in a stereo component like form factor with a built in TV tuner & cable card slot. Intel has spent a lot of time and effort developing such form factors and no PC vendor has been able to push these to market successfully. Apple is certainly capable of pulling this off.
I had a Soltek Qbic which is similar to the Shuttles. The Shuttles are not cheap and, like the Qbic, have no class. There are small PC's which are classy but they are very expensive. Why on earth would Apple want to go back in time to a mid/tower or microATX form? It's never been them. They don't want people fiddling around with the hardware. It increases support costs which are higher than the hardware costs.
"Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet."
Many people think recording when they think media centre. HDTV and the cable companies are making recording difficult. You basically can't record cable broadcast HDTV as they are copy protecting the streams. That gets rid of recording so what is the media centre supposed to do?
"Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet."
Many people think recording when they think media centre. HDTV and the cable companies are making recording difficult. You basically can't record cable broadcast HDTV as they are copy protecting the streams. That gets rid of recording so what is the media centre supposed to do?
philip
Indeed, with the number of deals Apple has with content providers I can't see them including tuners ever again with a view to recording content. Much more likely we'll see more deals to provide TV and film content to Macs, iTunes and AppleTV.
The Mini definitely has a place in the market... it's just a matter of how it fits in the market compared to other form factors. I'd like some real numbers, but I've been "hearing" the mini hasn't been selling that well.
That says nothing of it's profitability.
Not everything has to sell by the millions. I'm sure it sells more units than the XServe. By your reasoning that should be EOLd too.
Personally, I love the Mac Mini. It makes a fantastic little office/workgroup server.
You're right, it seems like for switchers price keeps coming up as the main issue for not switching even if it is a myth that Mac's are more expensive.
I don't feel that Apple puts enough effort into this part of the market. The starting 20" iMac is a pretty good deal for what you get at 1199.00 seeing it includes a 20" display.
The issue is in most cases if the cost is about the same fear will keep switchers from making the jump because they often feel like they have to buy new software which adds to the cost.
Also ive seen many times sales people talk customers out of a Apple product if someone is on the fence. Best Buy that sells both is a perfect example.
I believe still if Apple made a Macbook line with a 15" and 17" option with a decent graphics solution they could grab a nice share of that market they now lose. People see they can get a fully loaded Toshiba or HP 17" laptop for 1800.00, Apple has nothing to combat that. Best they can offer is a Macbook Pro at 1000.00 higher most aren't going to buy into that cost difference.
Just my opinion.
I don't really think it's a myth that Mac's are more expensive. Just playing around building systems at dell.com and comparing them with the iMacs, I was averaging about $2-300 savings on any system I built. And of course the obvious thing is that I could remove things I might consider unnecessary from the Dell to save even more money (bluetooth, firewire, etc.). You can easily widen the margins well beyond the $2-300 margin (especially if you already own a monitor you are happy with). If you absolutely want everything that is in the iMac the difference isn't that great, but remove the extraneous bits and the Dell is much cheaper (and if you happen to be stuck on dial-up, Dell tosses in a modem for free instead of $49 like Apple).
The XServe has a much higher profit margin than a mini. There isn't a whole lot to work with on a mini for pricing.
Absolutely. And the mini wastes money that could go toward higher profits or lower price on pricier laptop components. Apple could have been making more money at these price points, or dropped prices, or improved specs at the same price (or a combination of all three), if they'd just use things like 3.5 inch hard drives and desktop CPU's.
Comments
Wow I honestly don't think AppleTV, iMac, MacPro or Mac mini would fit your bill. Not being an Apple snob, just honest...
I can't go with that. I've got over 1,000 LP's to digitize, and I'm doing it with a Mini. I see that as a great machine for the job. not too expensive, small, so that it cam be moved anywhere. I connect it to the (hi def) Tv when it's being used. A keyboard is pretty cheap these days so I can have one just for this putpose, and I don't need the numeric pad, so it can be a small one. It's more than fast enough for Pro Tools, though one doesn't need that for this purpose.
This is an interesting mini mockup.
That's pretty, but it would never work.
there is simply no room for a computer inside.
Even allowing for the lack of DVD , the case, even if we pretend that the keyboard doesn't extend into it, has much less room than the current Mini, which as we all know, is too small for a GPU already. Remembering that the Mini uses a 2.5" drive, even using the far more expensive, and much smaller capacity SSD's, there would no way to cool the thing.
Nice fantasy.
The last time AppleInsider claimed the Mac Mini was dead, it got a processor upgrade.
...but no GMA3K, no FW800, no 802.11n or anything else that required any thought or effort.
The Mac Mini 'upgrade' could have been engineered by an Intern. If Apple aren't giving it any effort then it sends a message.
That's pretty, but it would never work.
there is simply no room for a computer inside.
Even allowing for the lack of DVD , the case, even if we pretend that the keyboard doesn't extend into it, has much less room than the current Mini, which as we all know, is too small for a GPU already. Remembering that the Mini uses a 2.5" drive, even using the far more expensive, and much smaller capacity SSD's, there would no way to cool the thing.
Nice fantasy.
And I don't see why the average person would really want it.
What is so appealing about a tiny computer that is never going to be that portable since it requires a monitor and plugging into a wall? People who want portability already have laptops (which are pretty much all better equipped than a mini anyway).
I just don't see the need for a desktop to be super small. Make a slightly bigger unit and give it better specs. Either go midtower or stereo component form factor (pizza box).
More mini mockups:
Nice. I can see it now: "The new Mac Mini: Fits an entie computer into the space of a sentence.
This is an interesting mini mockup.
Just what I wanted... all of my cables dangling across my desk. 4 USBs, 2 firewires, a monitor, a power cord. Cables are pretty.
You owe us all a cartridge slot though. Seriously, I used to own a computer just like the one in your mockup. The year was 1982, and it was a TI99 4A. OK, in fairness, it was my father's. Not many elementary schoolers had the kind of cash required to buy a beast like the TI99 4A.
25 years later, I'll pass.
A mini-tower-MAC (more along the form factor of Shuttle PCs) would definitely be a plus. ... The current mini form factor constrains storage and graphics options to great extent. It should also be possible to provide better cooling with almost no noise in a larger form factor.
Couldn't. Agree. More.
100% dead on.
Yes, yes, and more yes.
Another option would be a "Mac media" in a stereo component like form factor with a built in TV tuner & cable card slot. Intel has spent a lot of time and effort developing such form factors and no PC vendor has been able to push these to market successfully. Apple is certainly capable of pulling this off.
Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet.
And I don't see why the average person would really want it.
What is so appealing about a tiny computer that is never going to be that portable since it requires a monitor and plugging into a wall? People who want portability already have laptops (which are pretty much all better equipped than a mini anyway).
I just don't see the need for a desktop to be super small. Make a slightly bigger unit and give it better specs. Either go midtower or stereo component form factor (pizza box).
If it could be made to work, though a bit larger, and thicker, there could be some uses. My use for my Mini in digitizing my LP collection would be one use, the computer for control of the audio/video system.
you could also take it with you, rather than that hypothetical iPod, and plug it into a monitor somewhere else. I've had plenty of monitors with two inputs. My current one has two.
I wouldnt consider this to be a desktop machine therefore.
I'm not sure how much of a market it would have though.
Couldn't. Agree. More.
100% dead on.
Yes, yes, and more yes.
You're sure now?
Keyboards are so much a personal preference that I wouldn't like to see one attached to a desktop.
Monitors are pretty personal as well, yet ... I really liked my A1200. The Amiga was ahead of its time but hampered by PAL and NTSC restrictions. I guess one problem with having the keyboard include the computer is that getting the video to the HDTV would be a pain. You don't want wires all over the place, and unplugging, etc... It's the same problem laptops have, as well as iMac's. In fact the more I think about it the iPhone/iPod touch and Mac Mini are the only computer products which make sense for a consumer not interested in 3-D gaming. It won't be long before laptops are replaced by things like them.
philip
Ok so what would be the best scenario for my situation??? Over 800 DVDs I want to rip to hdd .. Audio needs to be ac3 (Dolby digital)..reciever will accept optical.. All content is 480p....xbox360 in the mix...have 1 media center 2005 server on the network as well as 1 vista ultimate box on the network...would like to rip these to external usb drives and access them from the tv with the easiest interface... What type of video rip are we talking about here? Apple tv is out because of the lack of 5.1 right? What about a mini? What are your thoughts? Btw sorry if this is a little off topic
A Mac Mini is definitely the way to go for what you want to do. There is an inexpensive multiple HDMI box available at the Apple store if you need more HDMI ports. I have the Mini going to the TV and on a gigabit network with a Vista box and several Mac's. I use a wireless keyboard made by nmediapc which costs $45 and includes a neat trackball (small). Great range, works with osx, don't need to deal with a remote mouse and keyboard, etc.... I have a 500gig La Cie USB drive attached to the Mini and lot's of stuff in the PC...
As for the rip part, I am not an expert but what's wrong with divx/xvid or .mp4 ?
philip
A mini-tower-MAC (more along the form factor of Shuttle PCs) would definitely be a plus. There is already AppleTV for those who want something really small to use as a media center. The current mini form factor constrains storage and graphics options to great extent. It should also be possible to provide better cooling with almost no noise in a larger form factor.
Another option would be a "Mac media" in a stereo component like form factor with a built in TV tuner & cable card slot. Intel has spent a lot of time and effort developing such form factors and no PC vendor has been able to push these to market successfully. Apple is certainly capable of pulling this off.
I had a Soltek Qbic which is similar to the Shuttles. The Shuttles are not cheap and, like the Qbic, have no class. There are small PC's which are classy but they are very expensive. Why on earth would Apple want to go back in time to a mid/tower or microATX form? It's never been them. They don't want people fiddling around with the hardware. It increases support costs which are higher than the hardware costs.
philip
Many people think recording when they think media centre. HDTV and the cable companies are making recording difficult. You basically can't record cable broadcast HDTV as they are copy protecting the streams. That gets rid of recording so what is the media centre supposed to do?
philip
"Again, I agree completely. I think the media center - a real media center - is the next big thing, and nobody has done it very well yet."
Many people think recording when they think media centre. HDTV and the cable companies are making recording difficult. You basically can't record cable broadcast HDTV as they are copy protecting the streams. That gets rid of recording so what is the media centre supposed to do?
philip
Indeed, with the number of deals Apple has with content providers I can't see them including tuners ever again with a view to recording content. Much more likely we'll see more deals to provide TV and film content to Macs, iTunes and AppleTV.
The Mini definitely has a place in the market... it's just a matter of how it fits in the market compared to other form factors. I'd like some real numbers, but I've been "hearing" the mini hasn't been selling that well.
That says nothing of it's profitability.
Not everything has to sell by the millions. I'm sure it sells more units than the XServe. By your reasoning that should be EOLd too.
Personally, I love the Mac Mini. It makes a fantastic little office/workgroup server.
You're right, it seems like for switchers price keeps coming up as the main issue for not switching even if it is a myth that Mac's are more expensive.
I don't feel that Apple puts enough effort into this part of the market. The starting 20" iMac is a pretty good deal for what you get at 1199.00 seeing it includes a 20" display.
The issue is in most cases if the cost is about the same fear will keep switchers from making the jump because they often feel like they have to buy new software which adds to the cost.
Also ive seen many times sales people talk customers out of a Apple product if someone is on the fence. Best Buy that sells both is a perfect example.
I believe still if Apple made a Macbook line with a 15" and 17" option with a decent graphics solution they could grab a nice share of that market they now lose. People see they can get a fully loaded Toshiba or HP 17" laptop for 1800.00, Apple has nothing to combat that. Best they can offer is a Macbook Pro at 1000.00 higher most aren't going to buy into that cost difference.
Just my opinion.
I don't really think it's a myth that Mac's are more expensive. Just playing around building systems at dell.com and comparing them with the iMacs, I was averaging about $2-300 savings on any system I built. And of course the obvious thing is that I could remove things I might consider unnecessary from the Dell to save even more money (bluetooth, firewire, etc.). You can easily widen the margins well beyond the $2-300 margin (especially if you already own a monitor you are happy with). If you absolutely want everything that is in the iMac the difference isn't that great, but remove the extraneous bits and the Dell is much cheaper (and if you happen to be stuck on dial-up, Dell tosses in a modem for free instead of $49 like Apple).
That says nothing of it's profitability.
Not everything has to sell by the millions. I'm sure it sells more units than the XServe. By your reasoning that should be EOLd too.
Personally, I love the Mac Mini. It makes a fantastic little office/workgroup server.
The XServe has a much higher profit margin than a mini. There isn't a whole lot to work with on a mini for pricing.
The XServe has a much higher profit margin than a mini. There isn't a whole lot to work with on a mini for pricing.
Absolutely. And the mini wastes money that could go toward higher profits or lower price on pricier laptop components. Apple could have been making more money at these price points, or dropped prices, or improved specs at the same price (or a combination of all three), if they'd just use things like 3.5 inch hard drives and desktop CPU's.