To the guy that stands by his 2009 prediction, you are probably the closest of them all but only off by about 3 years. 3G is more than just base stations, it is billing systems, all new radios, all new infrastructure. The experts in the field, i.e. the European operators took only 7 years to get it almost correct and you think AT&T, the worse operator in the world will do it in 2. Good luck. Now I know why the iPhone was launched in the US. Apparently gullible people are easier to fool outright. Did anyone see Apple file with the FCC for licenses for the 3G radios in the new 3G iPhone? Nope, didn't think so. This takes about 6 months to a year as well.
Stick to EDGE. This is suited to the slower way of thinking. Apple and AT&T have been jerking you guys around and you fall for it hook line and sinker every time. In the mean time, Nokia will release its new TS UI phones that they have had on the shelf to see if they were marketable (kudos to Apple for show the world is now ready for TS UI), and their new Ovi music/social networking service.
By the way, EDGE uses more power than 3G. Don't forget to believe the Apple lie about this too.
Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.
Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.
My bad nofear1az. It came across that you were speaking from a network position. My bad once again. 3G networks are not like the old 2.5G's. You can't reuse much. It is a totally new ball game.
Don't worry about it, nofear1az. Ignore what sapporobaby said because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Verizon has fiber available to many major United States cities and they are aggressively installing more, much like AT&T with 3G. AT&T will accomplish most (if not all) of what it plans to do by the end of 2008. Combined with the upcoming 3G iPhone both Apple and AT&T will be greatly rewarded for their exclusive five year deal.
AT&T already has a functional 3G network in the United States. They were working on expanding it even before the first iPhone came out. Apple knew that, which is why Steve made the right choice to start with EDGE then release a 3G as, within a year later, AT&T would increase and intensify it's 3G coverage. AT&T is working on other features as well, which will have a very powerful advantage over other cellular services within the next year. Let's just say one of those features is tied up in legal affairs / negotiations between various parties, but once the details are completed AT&T will be well on its way to winning the cellular service market.
So from a hardware, software, billing, network, or any other aspect one considers implementing 3G in the United States, AT&T is charging ahead full steam. AT&T’s 3G network benefits all AT&T customers that have a 3G cell phone – not just those with an iPhone. Because of that, they will accomplish their expansion this year.
Don't worry about it, nofear1az. Ignore what sapporobaby said because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Verizon has fiber available to many major United States cities and they are aggressively installing more, much like AT&T with 3G. AT&T will accomplish most (if not all) of what it plans to do by the end of 2008. Combined with the upcoming 3G iPhone both Apple and AT&T will be greatly rewarded for their exclusive five year deal.
AT&T already has a functional 3G network in the United States. They were working on expanding it even before the first iPhone came out. Apple knew that, which is why Steve made the right choice to start with EDGE then release a 3G as, within a year later, AT&T would increase and intensify it's 3G coverage. AT&T is working on other features as well, which will have a very powerful advantage over other cellular services within the next year. Let's just say one of those features is tied up in legal affairs / negotiations between various parties, but once the details are completed AT&T will be well on its way to winning the cellular service market.
So from a hardware, software, billing, network, or any other aspect one considers implementing 3G in the United States, AT&T is charging ahead full steam. AT&T?s 3G network benefits all AT&T customers that have a 3G cell phone ? not just those with an iPhone. Because of that, they will accomplish their expansion this year.
You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.
nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.
You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.
nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.
Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.
Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.
Hey bigdaddyp,
No doubt it was an undertaking. I say this simply from the prospect of being part of the bid and build out. Let me tell you, "it ain't fun". Well, it is when it all works. I am pretty sure that AT&T began their upgrade/build out/roll out, etc..... well in advance of the fall. The biggest problem with 3G is that the further away you get from the core network, i.e. MSC, the more work you have to do and equipment you have to change.
I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?
Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.
No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.
I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.
However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.
For what I’ve said about the iPhone not working without an AT&T contract, I have nothing to be ashamed of. As I have not personally terminated my AT&T contract with the iPhone, nor do I know anyone who has, I was stating my current knowledge on the subject based on statements made by David Pogue. He’s a very smart, respected, and experienced professional. Who is David Pogue?
“David Pogue is the weekly tech columnist for the New York Times. He’s an Emmy award winning CBS News reporter, tech correspondent for the NPR’s “Morning Edition”, creator of the Missing Manual book series (in which he authored or co authored 17 of them), wrote 6 “For Dummies” titles, and overall has written 43 books.”
Hoping not to upset those that own the rights to the book (by posting part of it here), David Pogue stated on page 262 of the “iPhone Missing Manual” : “Until you activate, the iPhone can’t do much of anything. It can’t make calls, play music or video, or get on the Internet. So no, you can’t buy an iPhone and hope to use it as a fancy iPod: Without an AT&T account, it just won’t work. Signing up for AT&T service is required.
For that matter, the iPhone is a locked GSM phone, meaning that it works only with an AT&T account. It won’t work with Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, or any other carrier, and you can’t insert the SIM card from a non AT&T phone and expect it to work.”
I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. I’m merely stating that without personal experience with terminating an AT&T account with the iPhone or knowing someone that has, I wisely turned to information provided by someone who knows a lot about the iPhone because he worked directly with Apple to write a book on it. He states two times, across two paragraphs, that the iPhone won’t work without an AT&T contract.
With the new iTunes rental movies, Apple has a secure means of locking content after a certain time period, whether on your computer or iPhone. Since you need iTunes to activate and upgrade the iPhone, sync it, and rental movies are controlled and removed by iTunes according to the time period, it followed along with what David Pogue said, which implies ending your AT&T contract would have the same effect on the iPhone. Apple could (if they wanted to) deactivate an iPhone through iTunes. It's not a stupid idea because Apple has already proven they know how to do that. In fact, they've already done it. Their recent software upgrades have effectively deactivated (or ruined) those that upgraded their unlocked iPhones. However, they really don't need iTunes to deactivate iPhones.
Instead of determining if unofficial Apple software was installed on the iPhone (to warrent deactivation) all Apple would have to do is let the iPhone check its own internal logs and determine (just for instance) if it has not made or received any calls within a set span of time – such as three weeks, implying the cell service was terminated. If not used for that length of time, it “upgrades” to a non-working version. Software wise, that is rather simple to do.
Overall, as it stands today, ending your AT&T contract merely removes access to all cellular related functions, including EDGE. Yet you can use some of those cellular related functions if they work over an accessible Wi-Fi.
Again, I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. If sapporobaby wants to call me an idiot then experienced professionals with tons of creditials, such as David Pogue, are in the same boat with me. Ahem, which suits me just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.
No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”. It will function like the iTouch. I would email David Pogue about this but chances are he already knows and plans to write an updated version to the "iPhone Missing Manual".
No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.
I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.
However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.
Hmmmm...... I wonder if this tidbit of good news was delivered via PM at: 19:11 on 02-07-2008, and read at 06:23 EST on 02-08-2008? How coincidental this "good news". Lucky for us someone is "so" on the ball.
Apple20: as a paid for device, your iPhone will naturally become an iPod Touch. You could have found this out like I did by simply calling: 1-800-331-0500 AT&T Customer Service. You can also activate the same iPhone simply by purchasing another plan. It seems that a few posts back you were told that your iPhone will not function at all. I wonder if this will be corrected by the person making those incorrect statements? Time will tell.
By the way Apple20, here is a simple test you can run. Turn off your phone. Turn it back on. If yours has the pin code enabled it will say "Sim Locked". Simply click the "OK" button. Now your wifi, and other services will continue to function. It is as though you have no SIM card in your phone. This is exactly what will happen when you either take your SIM out or if your service is deactivate. As you can see, your iPhone still functions. It would seem that the info you received from Kephisto is wrong, and quite easy to verify. You might want to reconsider anything he says. Use verifiable sources.
sapporobaby, are you referring to your four pathetic private messages to me? Did I read them? Yes, I did. Did I reply? No, I didn’t. As you’ve repeatedly ignored, I’m like most people who come here for fun, so I was just curious what you had to say. That won’t happen again. I wasn’t going to mention your private messages but, since you did, for everyone’s amusement, here’s some segments of what our newest forum troll (sapporobaby) sent me :
Note : What is quoted here is only part of what he sent, collected from four private messages. Two sent 2-7, 12:09 pm and 12:11 pm, the other two sent 2-8, 1:00 am and 1:13 am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private messages)
I was going to give you benefit of the doubt but considering you are a serial idiot, I will gladly pull apart any and everything you post. Don't make a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private messages)
I tend to run in the company of REAL 3G engineers, that spend their time in the field as well as the labs and have real world data to back up their facts. As I am under NDA with several large companies (ever hear of Nokia, or SonyEricsson, or LM Ericsson), I can not actually disclose complete details but I can impart a hint or two. I'll bet my hints and tips against your facts any day and I know I will win. By the way, went you think of Vodafone, my name is stamped on the build out of the networks in Germany, Egypt, Kuwait, Italy, the Netherlands, and Finland. So, when you are ready for a one on one debate about GSM, HSDPA, HSCSD, 3G, etc... Bring it on and I will gladly school you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private messages)
I was asked by an editor of an online magazine I communicate with to take a peek at Appleinsider after many months/years of simply avoiding this forum. For the most part it is a forum/organization built around Apple apologists. Anyone that says something negative against Apple and apolo-nazi's come out to carry forth the Apple banner and vanquish the nay-sayer. You continue this grand tradition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private messages)
If you are not pleased with what I post, considering that you made if very personal, in a very public manner you might want to ask one of your group hug partners who just happens to be a mod, to intervene. As you have proven twice that you are not up to the task. Make sure you PM your entire support group as well because surly you do not have the stones to do this one on one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private messages)
Once again, I cordially invite you to back up your claim that the iPhone will become a completely dead brick with no functionality. You put it out there publicly now back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private messages)
Been there, currently using all of this. Come to Finland and experience real mobile and fix telephony. You are talking about something that is second nature in many parts of the world.
Well, fellow appleinsiders, it seems sapporobaby wants me to believe he’s a genius that is bound by several NDA to build 3G networks from across the globe, is investigating our forum for an editor at an online magazine, has (just like me) cable and wireless broadband (and next month fiber) all going to his residence at the same time, and ignores the reasons I gave about ending an AT&T contract when page 262 of David Pogue’s “iPhone Missing Manual” states, well, as I’ve already posted previously.
Does sapporobaby impress anyone? Even bavlondon2 didn’t send me insulting private messages, hehe.
sapporobaby, are you referring to your four pathetic private messages to me? Did I read them? Yes, I did. Did I reply? No, I didn’t. As you’ve repeatedly ignored, I’m like most people who come here for fun, so I was just curious what you had to say. That won’t happen again. I wasn’t going to mention your private messages but, since you did, for everyone’s amusement, here’s some segments of what our newest forum troll (sapporobaby) sent me :
Note : What is quoted here is only part of what he sent, collected from four private messages. Two sent 2-7, 12:09 pm and 12:11 pm, the other two sent 2-8, 1:00 am and 1:13 am.
You seem to need the approval of others. You call on the forum to support you in your quests. It must really stink being you. You mention David Pogue as though he can lend credibility to you "vapor" postings. In just one quick post, I proved your statements to Apple20 as false. Funny how you had this awakening after I told you how I called AT&T and provided you with the info that you posted as good news. It's also funny how you forgot to post that. That would make you a fraud it seems, and well possibly a liar. I do not know you well enough but what the heck. Let's add this to your title as well.
You might want to re-read my PM's about what I have going to my house, and why I came to this forum. You seem to have a problem getting your facts straight. Maybe, that serial idiot title was not too far from the truth. You have earned it. My invitation still stands for you to prove anything I have stated technically incorrect. You seem to need the support and adoration of others. Here is your big chance to prove me wrong. Have at it. If you can't, stop wasting my time.
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #1, 02-07-2008, 12:09 PM )
At first impulse, I was tempted to post this in a public forum however I will leave that to you. You make several statements, some of them incorrect and some worthy of consideration. I will start with your answer to Apple20 first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple20
I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?
Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.
You stated this: Ignore what sapporobaby said. Your 4GB iPhone will stop working. The iPhone is useless until activated by a two year contract with AT&T cellular service and it returns to a useless state once your contract ends. It won’t take calls, play music, or do just about anything. Switching your service to another iPhone means the previous one doesn’t have service. As a result, it stops working. Again, ignore what sapporobaby said.
I cordially invite you to prove this. I called AT&T and did a simple Q&A. It went as follows:
Me: Hi, I am a customer. If I switch to another iPhone, what happens to my current iPhone?
AT&T Rep: Well, the service will stop working, however the other stuff will continue as it was activated.
Me: Other stuff, what do you mean?
AT&T Rep: You know, the iPod, and wifi will still work but you will not have phone service. You can however purchase another card and have two phones that work.
Me: Well, this is an option. Thanks for your help. Are you sure the the telephone part will stop but the rest will continue to work?
AT&T Rep: Yup. That's for sure. How can we turn off the iPod and wifi function?
Me: You have a point. Thanks for your help and time.
Once again, I cordially invite you to back up your claim that the iPhone will become a completely dead brick with no functionality. You put it out there publicly now back it up.
You wrote:
But don’t worry, apple20. When you upgrade consider giving your 4GB iPhone as a gift to a close friend, who knows it is used but well taken care of. Are they going to complain for getting a used $400 cell phone? Hey, it’s your friend, right? Another option is simply selling it. Since some people, like yourself, bought a 4 GB iPhone rather than 8GB to save $100 to $200 (along with other reasons), I’m sure you’ll find someone happy to buy your 4GB iPhone for around $200.
Apple and AT&T might release a new plan in 2009 which allows users to pay a small fee, perhaps around $50 or so, and that activates the iPhone for everything but cellular service, which more or less turns it into the iTouch. I say this because, at that time, there will be over six million of us who demand our older iPhones continue to work - to some capacity. Apple20, I hope this info helps.
My reply: Why would anyone buy a brick as you suppose all iPhones will become? Even if your theory, and what a theory it is, contained a modicum of fact why would anyone take this serious considering there has been no product in history that was suddenly made unusable (software licenses not included) once the contract expires? Your theory holds no water, no logic and is indicative of your mindset.
You wrote: As for AT&T expanding their 3G network, that’s great news for those of us in the United States. Here in New York I have access to Wi-Fi, EDGE, wireless broadband, and by this April – fiber. Having my residence served with fiber, wireless broadband, and cable for internet service, combined with an iPhone that runs on 3G, more or less means I’ll always have fast access to all my information. I won’t be alone, because a 3G iPhone is what most people are waiting for. Copy/paste? By comparison, hehe – what’s that?
My reply: Been there, currently using all of this. Come to Finland and experience real mobile and fix telephony. You are talking about something that is second nature in many parts of the world.
3 more to go. To the OP, sorry for taking up a lot of space devoted to this nonsense.
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #2, 02-07-2008, 12:11 PM )
Now for the other part of your diatribe.
You wrote: Hey, fellow members, it looks like sapporobaby is running for the 2008 title for the “Know it all that really knows nothing”! As usual, it’s the newcomers like sapporobaby who like to talk down to the rest of us, as if all of us were uneducated or beneath them, but yet that same person can’t spell, uses improper grammar, has absolutely no clue about the details of most applied technologies and cellular networks, and above and beyond everything else – has to refer to links and magazines (rather than personal knowledge and experience) trying to prove their point.
My reply: Nice screed but you have not proven once single point or proven me wrong on anything I've said. You defend an 7 or 8 month old article as though it were passed down from on high as being the grail. Sorry but Steve Jobs is a salesman who sells, and does it quite well. He sold you and you bought it hook, line, and sinker. I tend to run in the company of REAL 3G engineers, that spend their time in the field as well as the labs and have real world data to back up their facts. As I am under NDA with several large companies (ever hear of Nokia, or SonyEricsson, or LM Ericsson), I can not actually disclose complete details but I can impart a hint or two. I'll bet my hints and tips against your facts any day and I know I will win. By the way, went you think of Vodafone, my name is stamped on the build out of the networks in Germany, Egypt, Kuwait, Italy, the Netherlands, and Finland. So, when you are ready for a one on one debate about GSM, HSDPA, HSCSD, 3G, etc... Bring it on and I will gladly school you.
You wrote: Sapporobaby, most of us come here for fun, to talk with others and exchange ideas about (among other things) the Apple iPhone. If you joined the forums to post nonsense in an effort to improve your self-esteem, hoping the rest of us will think you’re smarter, wealthier, and your opinions should be taken as fact, then you’re wasting your time. For occupations, some of us are professional writers, programmers, technicians, professors, doctors, attorneys, teachers, and scientists, among other fields. For activities, some of us are stock day traders, game designers, managers of various websites or organizations, athletes, among other tasks that one may be paid for but may be done part time, separate from their official “job”. For experience on cell phones, most of us have owned several and have friends and coworkers who have other cell phones to compare the iPhone to. Taken as a whole, most of us know what we’re talking about.
My reply: I never said as a whole you (plural) did not know what you are talking about, however I did correct and then corrected myself in regards to my first post addressing someone in the thread. I admitted that I was frustrated and said so and then said it again. You will not get three apologies out of me for the same thing. Just not gonna happen. As for your "occupations" and "activities". Put them on your resume. I could not care less. A degree does not make you correct. It makes you an incorrect person with a degree.
You wrote: You, sapporobaby, apparently don’t.
My reply: Prove anything I have said wrong. I invite you.
You wrote: Maybe while offline, few people listen to you or respect your opinions, especially about the iPhone, so you come here to express your nonsense. Most of us are adults who are not as clueless as you are. We aren’t afraid of being wrong about a particular fact or statement, in part or whole, because that is part of learning anything. Ever go to a bookstore or library in your life, sapporobaby? Guess what, in that case, just like me, that means you’re there to borrow or buy literature to expand your knowledge on various subjects. You don’t know everything and never will. Some people will always know more about various subjects than you do and vice versa. Here, in this forum, it’s much the same. I hope you take my not too subtle advice and learn from it and stop acting like a troll. You probably won’t stop but at least I tried.
My reply: I was asked by an editor of an online magazine I communicate with to take a peek at Appleinsider after many months/years of simply avoiding this forum. For the most part it is a forum/organization built around Apple apologists. Anyone that says something negative against Apple and apolo-nazi's come out to carry forth the Apple banner and vanquish the nay-sayer. You continue this grand tradition. For the record, I have multiple Apple products, from MBP's to Apple TV's, iPhones, iPods, etc... However, as a paying customer, I have paid for the right to express my feelings about a product or company that I feel is not living up to my expectations. Sorry but I have no desire to be part of your communal group hug. You and the rest here can march goose-stepping to a Deutsche Battle Marching Hymn singing "Apple, Apple uber alles, but I will actually "Think different" for my money.
I apologize to those of us that would have rather not wasted such time reposting sapporbaby's pathetic messages, but here's private message 3 of 4 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #3, 2-8-8, 01:00 AM)
)]I was going to give you benefit of the doubt but considering you are a serial idiot, I will gladly pull apart any and everything you post. Don't make a mistake.
Originally Posted by sapporobaby (private message #4, 2-8-8, 01:13 AM)
If you are not pleased with what I post, considering that you made if very personal, in a very public manner you might want to ask one of your group hug partners who just happens to be a mod, to intervene. As you have proven twice that you are not up to the task. Make sure you PM your entire support group as well because surly you do not have the stones to do this one on one.
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be the one perpetuating things here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form, and you went for the head-fake like I knew you would. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private messages. Why do you think I make sure I stated in the first line that you can "make this public"? I knew you would. This is who you really are. You are soooooo predictable. By all means, please continue with your show. You are must see TV. I like you and think you are swell. Anyway, I will let you have the last word. You seem to need it most. I will go read how Geohot software hacked the new 1.1.3 iPhone. Now this is interesting reading.
Oh, this is hilarious! I didn’t reply sooner because I wanted to make sure there wasn’t anything else sapporobaby, the 2008 “Know it all that in fact knows nothing”, wanted to say. Ok, sapporobaby, first you posted (as the latest reply)
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be continuing here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private. By all means, please continue with your show. You are must see TV.
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be the one perpetuating things here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form, and you went for the head-fake like I knew you would. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private messages. Why do you think I make sure I stated in the first line that you can "make this public"? I knew you would. This is who you really are. You are soooooo predictable. By all means, please continue with your show. You are must see TV. I like you and think you are swell.
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be the one perpetuating things here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form, and you went for the head-fake like I knew you would. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private messages. Why do you think I make sure I stated in the first line that you can "make this public"? I knew you would. This is who you really are. You are soooooo predictable. By all means, please continue with your show. You are must see TV. I like you and think you are swell. Anyway, I will let you have the last word. You seem to need it most. I will go read how Geohot software hacked the new 1.1.3 iPhone. Now this is interesting reading.
***** End Interruption *****
You didn't interrupt anything, sapporobaby, I was already done posting your four private messages, in full. Your views of posting private messages is funny, especially when you're the one who outright calls others (including me) an idiot, one that needs to discover girls, needs to be schooled, and that you have NDAs installing builds for 3G networks across the globe. You doing all that from - where you say you live, oh right, in Finland? So you’re in Finland telling me what won’t or can’t be done in the United States, when here in New York within five minutes I can drive out to a central or regional office or tower and speak with people, right there, and see what they’re up to? Ok, granted, depending on your occupation and who you know, this can be hard for most to do. It's not a problem for me.
sapporobaby, I know this is a forum where even people like you can sign up to get free accounts and post nonsense at their leisure, but for goodness sake, I'm an American in New York. As an American I take certain liberties because we're a liberty people, hehe. Add on top of that I’m in New York, which is one of the top three states to go being involved in very powerful industries such as movies, literature, high speed networks, among being a test market for just about everything. As sapporobaby thinks expanding a 3G network is expensive, expanding fiber is far above that, especially installing it direct to each home.
Everyone please note, the introduction to sapporobaby’s very first private message to me states :
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby(private message 1)
At first impulse, I was tempted to post this in a public forum however I will leave that to you.
You, sapporobaby, are either extremely confused or obviously given up on your investigation to check out this forum for your online magazine assignment. Do you really want to disappoint that editor?
You sent me private messages yet knew I would make them public? If you really thought that yet wanted it to stay private, why would you send them to me in the first place? Why bring them up in this topic that you sent me anything? Oh, was that part of your head-fake? Which is it? Excuse me, but did I bring up the private messages first or did you? Let’s check.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
Hmmmm...... I wonder if this tidbit of good news was delivered via PM at: 19:11 on 02-07-2008, and read at 06:23 EST on 02-08-2008? How coincidental this "good news". Lucky for us someone is "so" on the ball.
It’s checked, hehe, you brought it up first. Check your posts again, sapporobaby, you said :
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby"
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE".
Well, it won't, so how does that make you an always right genius? You said it will and it won't. So what, you called a store, did you? I went to both the AT&T and Apple store, as I do every now and then, and it took several reps between them to jointly answer questions. Most Apple don't deal with AT&T services and most AT&T don't deal with iTunes, etc.. Insulting me over that AT&T nonworking part is much the same as doing so to David Pogue and his "iPhone Missing Manual book". Why are you constantly skipping that big detail?
Right now, as I type this, I have both high speed broadband cable and (separately) wireless going to my residence – at the same time. I’ll add a third ISP – fiber, in April. According to you, sapporobaby, you said in your private message “Been there, currently using all of this”. Oh, so do you mean what I have is available in your country, so you use one of those ISPs, or rather as I meant it, that I now use two and soon, all three? From what you wrote, you are saying you currently use all of this to your home, just like I do. Well, which is it?
For AT&T expanding its 3G networks this year, someone already told you it was done in their area – much as I’ve already said. That doesn’t make you quite as smart or experienced in building 3G networks as you say you are. Then again, maybe in Finland you’re top choice for expanding networks. I don’t know. Here, in the United States, I’m curious what kind of equipment and software did you personally produce, that has your name on it, as you've said.
This Thursday I’m visiting a telecommunications center to get in depth results of their expanding fiber network, see software upgrades to some of their remote terminals for testing, and speaking with other programmers trying to have fun determining how to split up our resources to test the upcoming iPhone SDK rather than each of us discovering certain aspects on our own. But you, of all people, sapporobaby, need to school me on anything, let alone networks and technology? That's funny.
P.S.
Hmm, I don't have any new private messages from sapporobaby. Did I possibly violate his NDA, hehe?
Uhhhhh..... Do you even know what an E90 is. Obviously you don't. There is this new thing called the Internets (as said by Prez Bush). Use "The Google" and do a search for E90, N82, N81.
Comments
To the guy that stands by his 2009 prediction, you are probably the closest of them all but only off by about 3 years. 3G is more than just base stations, it is billing systems, all new radios, all new infrastructure. The experts in the field, i.e. the European operators took only 7 years to get it almost correct and you think AT&T, the worse operator in the world will do it in 2. Good luck. Now I know why the iPhone was launched in the US. Apparently gullible people are easier to fool outright. Did anyone see Apple file with the FCC for licenses for the 3G radios in the new 3G iPhone? Nope, didn't think so. This takes about 6 months to a year as well.
Stick to EDGE. This is suited to the slower way of thinking. Apple and AT&T have been jerking you guys around and you fall for it hook line and sinker every time. In the mean time, Nokia will release its new TS UI phones that they have had on the shelf to see if they were marketable (kudos to Apple for show the world is now ready for TS UI), and their new Ovi music/social networking service.
By the way, EDGE uses more power than 3G. Don't forget to believe the Apple lie about this too.
Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.
Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.
My bad nofear1az. It came across that you were speaking from a network position. My bad once again. 3G networks are not like the old 2.5G's. You can't reuse much. It is a totally new ball game.
AT&T already has a functional 3G network in the United States. They were working on expanding it even before the first iPhone came out. Apple knew that, which is why Steve made the right choice to start with EDGE then release a 3G as, within a year later, AT&T would increase and intensify it's 3G coverage. AT&T is working on other features as well, which will have a very powerful advantage over other cellular services within the next year. Let's just say one of those features is tied up in legal affairs / negotiations between various parties, but once the details are completed AT&T will be well on its way to winning the cellular service market.
So from a hardware, software, billing, network, or any other aspect one considers implementing 3G in the United States, AT&T is charging ahead full steam. AT&T’s 3G network benefits all AT&T customers that have a 3G cell phone – not just those with an iPhone. Because of that, they will accomplish their expansion this year.
Don't worry about it, nofear1az. Ignore what sapporobaby said because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Verizon has fiber available to many major United States cities and they are aggressively installing more, much like AT&T with 3G. AT&T will accomplish most (if not all) of what it plans to do by the end of 2008. Combined with the upcoming 3G iPhone both Apple and AT&T will be greatly rewarded for their exclusive five year deal.
AT&T already has a functional 3G network in the United States. They were working on expanding it even before the first iPhone came out. Apple knew that, which is why Steve made the right choice to start with EDGE then release a 3G as, within a year later, AT&T would increase and intensify it's 3G coverage. AT&T is working on other features as well, which will have a very powerful advantage over other cellular services within the next year. Let's just say one of those features is tied up in legal affairs / negotiations between various parties, but once the details are completed AT&T will be well on its way to winning the cellular service market.
So from a hardware, software, billing, network, or any other aspect one considers implementing 3G in the United States, AT&T is charging ahead full steam. AT&T?s 3G network benefits all AT&T customers that have a 3G cell phone ? not just those with an iPhone. Because of that, they will accomplish their expansion this year.
You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.
nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.
You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.
nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.
Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.
Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.
Hey bigdaddyp,
No doubt it was an undertaking. I say this simply from the prospect of being part of the bid and build out. Let me tell you, "it ain't fun". Well, it is when it all works.
I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?
Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.
No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.
I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.
However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.
For what I’ve said about the iPhone not working without an AT&T contract, I have nothing to be ashamed of. As I have not personally terminated my AT&T contract with the iPhone, nor do I know anyone who has, I was stating my current knowledge on the subject based on statements made by David Pogue. He’s a very smart, respected, and experienced professional. Who is David Pogue?
“David Pogue is the weekly tech columnist for the New York Times. He’s an Emmy award winning CBS News reporter, tech correspondent for the NPR’s “Morning Edition”, creator of the Missing Manual book series (in which he authored or co authored 17 of them), wrote 6 “For Dummies” titles, and overall has written 43 books.”
Hoping not to upset those that own the rights to the book (by posting part of it here), David Pogue stated on page 262 of the “iPhone Missing Manual” : “Until you activate, the iPhone can’t do much of anything. It can’t make calls, play music or video, or get on the Internet. So no, you can’t buy an iPhone and hope to use it as a fancy iPod: Without an AT&T account, it just won’t work. Signing up for AT&T service is required.
For that matter, the iPhone is a locked GSM phone, meaning that it works only with an AT&T account. It won’t work with Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, or any other carrier, and you can’t insert the SIM card from a non AT&T phone and expect it to work.”
I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. I’m merely stating that without personal experience with terminating an AT&T account with the iPhone or knowing someone that has, I wisely turned to information provided by someone who knows a lot about the iPhone because he worked directly with Apple to write a book on it. He states two times, across two paragraphs, that the iPhone won’t work without an AT&T contract.
With the new iTunes rental movies, Apple has a secure means of locking content after a certain time period, whether on your computer or iPhone. Since you need iTunes to activate and upgrade the iPhone, sync it, and rental movies are controlled and removed by iTunes according to the time period, it followed along with what David Pogue said, which implies ending your AT&T contract would have the same effect on the iPhone. Apple could (if they wanted to) deactivate an iPhone through iTunes. It's not a stupid idea because Apple has already proven they know how to do that. In fact, they've already done it. Their recent software upgrades have effectively deactivated (or ruined) those that upgraded their unlocked iPhones. However, they really don't need iTunes to deactivate iPhones.
Instead of determining if unofficial Apple software was installed on the iPhone (to warrent deactivation) all Apple would have to do is let the iPhone check its own internal logs and determine (just for instance) if it has not made or received any calls within a set span of time – such as three weeks, implying the cell service was terminated. If not used for that length of time, it “upgrades” to a non-working version. Software wise, that is rather simple to do.
Overall, as it stands today, ending your AT&T contract merely removes access to all cellular related functions, including EDGE. Yet you can use some of those cellular related functions if they work over an accessible Wi-Fi.
Again, I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. If sapporobaby wants to call me an idiot then experienced professionals with tons of creditials, such as David Pogue, are in the same boat with me. Ahem, which suits me just fine.
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.
No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”. It will function like the iTouch. I would email David Pogue about this but chances are he already knows and plans to write an updated version to the "iPhone Missing Manual".
No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.
I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.
However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.
Hmmmm...... I wonder if this tidbit of good news was delivered via PM at: 19:11 on 02-07-2008, and read at 06:23 EST on 02-08-2008? How coincidental this "good news". Lucky for us someone is "so" on the ball.
Apple20: as a paid for device, your iPhone will naturally become an iPod Touch. You could have found this out like I did by simply calling: 1-800-331-0500 AT&T Customer Service. You can also activate the same iPhone simply by purchasing another plan. It seems that a few posts back you were told that your iPhone will not function at all. I wonder if this will be corrected by the person making those incorrect statements? Time will tell.
By the way Apple20, here is a simple test you can run. Turn off your phone. Turn it back on. If yours has the pin code enabled it will say "Sim Locked". Simply click the "OK" button. Now your wifi, and other services will continue to function. It is as though you have no SIM card in your phone. This is exactly what will happen when you either take your SIM out or if your service is deactivate. As you can see, your iPhone still functions. It would seem that the info you received from Kephisto is wrong, and quite easy to verify. You might want to reconsider anything he says. Use verifiable sources.
Note : What is quoted here is only part of what he sent, collected from four private messages. Two sent 2-7, 12:09 pm and 12:11 pm, the other two sent 2-8, 1:00 am and 1:13 am.
I was going to give you benefit of the doubt but considering you are a serial idiot, I will gladly pull apart any and everything you post. Don't make a mistake.
I tend to run in the company of REAL 3G engineers, that spend their time in the field as well as the labs and have real world data to back up their facts. As I am under NDA with several large companies (ever hear of Nokia, or SonyEricsson, or LM Ericsson), I can not actually disclose complete details but I can impart a hint or two. I'll bet my hints and tips against your facts any day and I know I will win. By the way, went you think of Vodafone, my name is stamped on the build out of the networks in Germany, Egypt, Kuwait, Italy, the Netherlands, and Finland. So, when you are ready for a one on one debate about GSM, HSDPA, HSCSD, 3G, etc... Bring it on and I will gladly school you.
I was asked by an editor of an online magazine I communicate with to take a peek at Appleinsider after many months/years of simply avoiding this forum. For the most part it is a forum/organization built around Apple apologists. Anyone that says something negative against Apple and apolo-nazi's come out to carry forth the Apple banner and vanquish the nay-sayer. You continue this grand tradition.
If you are not pleased with what I post, considering that you made if very personal, in a very public manner you might want to ask one of your group hug partners who just happens to be a mod, to intervene. As you have proven twice that you are not up to the task. Make sure you PM your entire support group as well because surly you do not have the stones to do this one on one.
Once again, I cordially invite you to back up your claim that the iPhone will become a completely dead brick with no functionality. You put it out there publicly now back it up.
Been there, currently using all of this. Come to Finland and experience real mobile and fix telephony. You are talking about something that is second nature in many parts of the world.
Well, fellow appleinsiders, it seems sapporobaby wants me to believe he’s a genius that is bound by several NDA to build 3G networks from across the globe, is investigating our forum for an editor at an online magazine, has (just like me) cable and wireless broadband (and next month fiber) all going to his residence at the same time, and ignores the reasons I gave about ending an AT&T contract when page 262 of David Pogue’s “iPhone Missing Manual” states, well, as I’ve already posted previously.
Does sapporobaby impress anyone? Even bavlondon2 didn’t send me insulting private messages, hehe.
sapporobaby, are you referring to your four pathetic private messages to me? Did I read them? Yes, I did. Did I reply? No, I didn’t. As you’ve repeatedly ignored, I’m like most people who come here for fun, so I was just curious what you had to say. That won’t happen again. I wasn’t going to mention your private messages but, since you did, for everyone’s amusement, here’s some segments of what our newest forum troll (sapporobaby) sent me :
Note : What is quoted here is only part of what he sent, collected from four private messages. Two sent 2-7, 12:09 pm and 12:11 pm, the other two sent 2-8, 1:00 am and 1:13 am.
You seem to need the approval of others. You call on the forum to support you in your quests. It must really stink being you. You mention David Pogue as though he can lend credibility to you "vapor" postings. In just one quick post, I proved your statements to Apple20 as false. Funny how you had this awakening after I told you how I called AT&T and provided you with the info that you posted as good news. It's also funny how you forgot to post that. That would make you a fraud it seems, and well possibly a liar. I do not know you well enough but what the heck. Let's add this to your title as well.
You might want to re-read my PM's about what I have going to my house, and why I came to this forum. You seem to have a problem getting your facts straight. Maybe, that serial idiot title was not too far from the truth. You have earned it. My invitation still stands for you to prove anything I have stated technically incorrect. You seem to need the support and adoration of others. Here is your big chance to prove me wrong. Have at it. If you can't, stop wasting my time.
At first impulse, I was tempted to post this in a public forum however I will leave that to you. You make several statements, some of them incorrect and some worthy of consideration. I will start with your answer to Apple20 first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple20
I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?
Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.
You stated this: Ignore what sapporobaby said. Your 4GB iPhone will stop working. The iPhone is useless until activated by a two year contract with AT&T cellular service and it returns to a useless state once your contract ends. It won’t take calls, play music, or do just about anything. Switching your service to another iPhone means the previous one doesn’t have service. As a result, it stops working. Again, ignore what sapporobaby said.
I cordially invite you to prove this. I called AT&T and did a simple Q&A. It went as follows:
Me: Hi, I am a customer. If I switch to another iPhone, what happens to my current iPhone?
AT&T Rep: Well, the service will stop working, however the other stuff will continue as it was activated.
Me: Other stuff, what do you mean?
AT&T Rep: You know, the iPod, and wifi will still work but you will not have phone service. You can however purchase another card and have two phones that work.
Me: Well, this is an option. Thanks for your help. Are you sure the the telephone part will stop but the rest will continue to work?
AT&T Rep: Yup. That's for sure. How can we turn off the iPod and wifi function?
Me: You have a point. Thanks for your help and time.
Once again, I cordially invite you to back up your claim that the iPhone will become a completely dead brick with no functionality. You put it out there publicly now back it up.
You wrote:
But don’t worry, apple20. When you upgrade consider giving your 4GB iPhone as a gift to a close friend, who knows it is used but well taken care of. Are they going to complain for getting a used $400 cell phone? Hey, it’s your friend, right? Another option is simply selling it. Since some people, like yourself, bought a 4 GB iPhone rather than 8GB to save $100 to $200 (along with other reasons), I’m sure you’ll find someone happy to buy your 4GB iPhone for around $200.
Apple and AT&T might release a new plan in 2009 which allows users to pay a small fee, perhaps around $50 or so, and that activates the iPhone for everything but cellular service, which more or less turns it into the iTouch. I say this because, at that time, there will be over six million of us who demand our older iPhones continue to work - to some capacity. Apple20, I hope this info helps.
My reply: Why would anyone buy a brick as you suppose all iPhones will become? Even if your theory, and what a theory it is, contained a modicum of fact why would anyone take this serious considering there has been no product in history that was suddenly made unusable (software licenses not included) once the contract expires? Your theory holds no water, no logic and is indicative of your mindset.
You wrote: As for AT&T expanding their 3G network, that’s great news for those of us in the United States. Here in New York I have access to Wi-Fi, EDGE, wireless broadband, and by this April – fiber. Having my residence served with fiber, wireless broadband, and cable for internet service, combined with an iPhone that runs on 3G, more or less means I’ll always have fast access to all my information. I won’t be alone, because a 3G iPhone is what most people are waiting for. Copy/paste? By comparison, hehe – what’s that?
My reply: Been there, currently using all of this. Come to Finland and experience real mobile and fix telephony. You are talking about something that is second nature in many parts of the world.
3 more to go. To the OP, sorry for taking up a lot of space devoted to this nonsense.
Now for the other part of your diatribe.
You wrote: Hey, fellow members, it looks like sapporobaby is running for the 2008 title for the “Know it all that really knows nothing”! As usual, it’s the newcomers like sapporobaby who like to talk down to the rest of us, as if all of us were uneducated or beneath them, but yet that same person can’t spell, uses improper grammar, has absolutely no clue about the details of most applied technologies and cellular networks, and above and beyond everything else – has to refer to links and magazines (rather than personal knowledge and experience) trying to prove their point.
My reply: Nice screed but you have not proven once single point or proven me wrong on anything I've said. You defend an 7 or 8 month old article as though it were passed down from on high as being the grail. Sorry but Steve Jobs is a salesman who sells, and does it quite well. He sold you and you bought it hook, line, and sinker. I tend to run in the company of REAL 3G engineers, that spend their time in the field as well as the labs and have real world data to back up their facts. As I am under NDA with several large companies (ever hear of Nokia, or SonyEricsson, or LM Ericsson), I can not actually disclose complete details but I can impart a hint or two. I'll bet my hints and tips against your facts any day and I know I will win. By the way, went you think of Vodafone, my name is stamped on the build out of the networks in Germany, Egypt, Kuwait, Italy, the Netherlands, and Finland. So, when you are ready for a one on one debate about GSM, HSDPA, HSCSD, 3G, etc... Bring it on and I will gladly school you.
You wrote: Sapporobaby, most of us come here for fun, to talk with others and exchange ideas about (among other things) the Apple iPhone. If you joined the forums to post nonsense in an effort to improve your self-esteem, hoping the rest of us will think you’re smarter, wealthier, and your opinions should be taken as fact, then you’re wasting your time. For occupations, some of us are professional writers, programmers, technicians, professors, doctors, attorneys, teachers, and scientists, among other fields. For activities, some of us are stock day traders, game designers, managers of various websites or organizations, athletes, among other tasks that one may be paid for but may be done part time, separate from their official “job”. For experience on cell phones, most of us have owned several and have friends and coworkers who have other cell phones to compare the iPhone to. Taken as a whole, most of us know what we’re talking about.
My reply: I never said as a whole you (plural) did not know what you are talking about, however I did correct and then corrected myself in regards to my first post addressing someone in the thread. I admitted that I was frustrated and said so and then said it again. You will not get three apologies out of me for the same thing. Just not gonna happen. As for your "occupations" and "activities". Put them on your resume. I could not care less. A degree does not make you correct. It makes you an incorrect person with a degree.
You wrote: You, sapporobaby, apparently don’t.
My reply: Prove anything I have said wrong. I invite you.
You wrote: Maybe while offline, few people listen to you or respect your opinions, especially about the iPhone, so you come here to express your nonsense. Most of us are adults who are not as clueless as you are. We aren’t afraid of being wrong about a particular fact or statement, in part or whole, because that is part of learning anything. Ever go to a bookstore or library in your life, sapporobaby? Guess what, in that case, just like me, that means you’re there to borrow or buy literature to expand your knowledge on various subjects. You don’t know everything and never will. Some people will always know more about various subjects than you do and vice versa. Here, in this forum, it’s much the same. I hope you take my not too subtle advice and learn from it and stop acting like a troll. You probably won’t stop but at least I tried.
My reply: I was asked by an editor of an online magazine I communicate with to take a peek at Appleinsider after many months/years of simply avoiding this forum. For the most part it is a forum/organization built around Apple apologists. Anyone that says something negative against Apple and apolo-nazi's come out to carry forth the Apple banner and vanquish the nay-sayer. You continue this grand tradition. For the record, I have multiple Apple products, from MBP's to Apple TV's, iPhones, iPods, etc... However, as a paying customer, I have paid for the right to express my feelings about a product or company that I feel is not living up to my expectations. Sorry but I have no desire to be part of your communal group hug. You and the rest here can march goose-stepping to a Deutsche Battle Marching Hymn singing "Apple, Apple uber alles, but I will actually "Think different" for my money.
)]I was going to give you benefit of the doubt but considering you are a serial idiot, I will gladly pull apart any and everything you post. Don't make a mistake.
If you are not pleased with what I post, considering that you made if very personal, in a very public manner you might want to ask one of your group hug partners who just happens to be a mod, to intervene. As you have proven twice that you are not up to the task. Make sure you PM your entire support group as well because surly you do not have the stones to do this one on one.
@Kephisto,
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be the one perpetuating things here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form, and you went for the head-fake like I knew you would. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private messages. Why do you think I make sure I stated in the first line that you can "make this public"? I knew you would. This is who you really are. You are soooooo predictable.
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******* Interruption *********
@Kephisto,
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be continuing here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private. By all means, please continue with your show. You are must see TV.
***** End Interruption *****
Then you edited that post to the following :
******* Interruption *********
@Kephisto,
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be the one perpetuating things here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form, and you went for the head-fake like I knew you would. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private messages. Why do you think I make sure I stated in the first line that you can "make this public"? I knew you would. This is who you really are. You are soooooo predictable.
***** End Interruption *****
Not good enough, you edited again to :
******* Interruption *********
@Kephisto,
You continue to apologize to the posters in this thread, hell even this forum but you seem to be the one perpetuating things here. I could be wrong but you seem to be the pathetic one here. You are also true to form, and you went for the head-fake like I knew you would. I knew that you could not wait to post a Private Message. Everyone knows that posting PM's are cardinal sins. They are, well private messages. Why do you think I make sure I stated in the first line that you can "make this public"? I knew you would. This is who you really are. You are soooooo predictable.
***** End Interruption *****
You didn't interrupt anything, sapporobaby, I was already done posting your four private messages, in full. Your views of posting private messages is funny, especially when you're the one who outright calls others (including me) an idiot, one that needs to discover girls, needs to be schooled, and that you have NDAs installing builds for 3G networks across the globe. You doing all that from - where you say you live, oh right, in Finland? So you’re in Finland telling me what won’t or can’t be done in the United States, when here in New York within five minutes I can drive out to a central or regional office or tower and speak with people, right there, and see what they’re up to? Ok, granted, depending on your occupation and who you know, this can be hard for most to do. It's not a problem for me.
sapporobaby, I know this is a forum where even people like you can sign up to get free accounts and post nonsense at their leisure, but for goodness sake, I'm an American in New York. As an American I take certain liberties because we're a liberty people, hehe. Add on top of that I’m in New York, which is one of the top three states to go being involved in very powerful industries such as movies, literature, high speed networks, among being a test market for just about everything. As sapporobaby thinks expanding a 3G network is expensive, expanding fiber is far above that, especially installing it direct to each home.
Everyone please note, the introduction to sapporobaby’s very first private message to me states :
At first impulse, I was tempted to post this in a public forum however I will leave that to you.
You, sapporobaby, are either extremely confused or obviously given up on your investigation to check out this forum for your online magazine assignment. Do you really want to disappoint that editor?
You sent me private messages yet knew I would make them public? If you really thought that yet wanted it to stay private, why would you send them to me in the first place? Why bring them up in this topic that you sent me anything? Oh, was that part of your head-fake? Which is it? Excuse me, but did I bring up the private messages first or did you? Let’s check.
Hmmmm...... I wonder if this tidbit of good news was delivered via PM at: 19:11 on 02-07-2008, and read at 06:23 EST on 02-08-2008? How coincidental this "good news". Lucky for us someone is "so" on the ball.
It’s checked, hehe, you brought it up first. Check your posts again, sapporobaby, you said :
It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE".
Well, it won't, so how does that make you an always right genius? You said it will and it won't. So what, you called a store, did you? I went to both the AT&T and Apple store, as I do every now and then, and it took several reps between them to jointly answer questions. Most Apple don't deal with AT&T services and most AT&T don't deal with iTunes, etc.. Insulting me over that AT&T nonworking part is much the same as doing so to David Pogue and his "iPhone Missing Manual book". Why are you constantly skipping that big detail?
Right now, as I type this, I have both high speed broadband cable and (separately) wireless going to my residence – at the same time. I’ll add a third ISP – fiber, in April. According to you, sapporobaby, you said in your private message “Been there, currently using all of this”. Oh, so do you mean what I have is available in your country, so you use one of those ISPs, or rather as I meant it, that I now use two and soon, all three? From what you wrote, you are saying you currently use all of this to your home, just like I do. Well, which is it?
For AT&T expanding its 3G networks this year, someone already told you it was done in their area – much as I’ve already said. That doesn’t make you quite as smart or experienced in building 3G networks as you say you are. Then again, maybe in Finland you’re top choice for expanding networks. I don’t know. Here, in the United States, I’m curious what kind of equipment and software did you personally produce, that has your name on it, as you've said.
This Thursday I’m visiting a telecommunications center to get in depth results of their expanding fiber network, see software upgrades to some of their remote terminals for testing, and speaking with other programmers trying to have fun determining how to split up our resources to test the upcoming iPhone SDK rather than each of us discovering certain aspects on our own. But you, of all people, sapporobaby, need to school me on anything, let alone networks and technology? That's funny.
P.S.
Hmm, I don't have any new private messages from sapporobaby. Did I possibly violate his NDA, hehe?
Any more personal attacks or posting of PMs will result in a permaban.
Hey Ronda,
(slice)
By the way, you assumes I spelled it wrong being as you had no idea. Most lemmings don't.
Uhhhhh..... Do you even know what an E90 is. Obviously you don't. There is this new thing called the Internets (as said by Prez Bush). Use "The Google" and do a search for E90, N82, N81.
Stay in school and off drugs.
Like I said... banning.