The MacBook Air is so expensive and devoid of any compelling features, besides a low weight, that it comes as a surprise that it is selling. You have to wonder when Apple will come back to it senses.
In Canada, Staples is selling portables from Toshiba for $799 with a DVD drive and a 160 GB hard drive, while MacBooks sell for $1,249.00 with a 80 GB hard drive and an outdated CD-ROM drive on the Canadian AppleStore.
For a MacBook with a SuperDrive DVD drive, the selling price is either $1,449.00 for a "staining" white MacBook or $1,649.00 for a black MacBook.
Is there anyopne who would say that Apple doesn't cater to a niche market?
Now, if only Steve Jobs would stop defrauding shareholders for billions of dollars in illegal stock options, maybe the prices could come down to meet the prices of Apple's competitors.
All things considered, you have to wonder how much better Apple would do with another CEO and lower prices. After 10 and 1/2 years, it's time for a change of CEO, this time with enough brains to get a university degree...
Methinks you are an angry person from up North because the iPhone has not been released there, and Apple has not lowered its prices there for its Mac products to compensate for the US$ depreciation.
I don't agree that the MBA won't increase the mac user base - there are business users who wouldn't consider a mac until they offered a subnotebook. Now they have an option. And while the MBA is intended as a second computer, I don't think everyone necessarily needs or wants both machines on the same platform. Mac laptop and PC desktop or vice versa is better than two PC's. And two macs is better than one of each.
PC people are not going to buy 2 computers because 1 is thin and light! PC people are not going to buy an MBA unless their PC's run Leopard. You don't think a PC can be manufactured just as thin or a fast ? It's not like the iPhone where it can't be duplicated due to the OS and touch screen technology. It's just not as compelling a reason to switch if you have to buy 2 computers at once. And it's not an iTouch where Itunes has a Windows version.
This is a new class of machine that Apple previously didn't offer. At least since the demise of the 12" MBP.
Yes, it will increase Mac and Leopard numbers, The people buying this are either replacing a Mac notebook (wash), replacing a ultralight from another vendor (increase), or buying it as an additional machine (increase).
It won't be a large increase by any means, but it will be an increase.
PC people are not going to buy 2 computers because 1 is thin and light! PC people are not going to buy an MBA unless their PC's run Leopard. You don't think a PC can be manufactured just as thin or a fast ? It's not like the iPhone where it can't be duplicated due to the OS and touch screen technology. It's just not as compelling a reason to switch if you have to buy 2 computers at once. And it's not an iTouch where Itunes has a Windows version.
You completely misunderstand me (and it seems like you're mostly agreeing with me).
Many people buy two computers, a desktop and a laptop. And I think people are willing to have those two machines on two different platforms, particularly if the laptop is intended for simple things like email, web, word processing, and media playback.
Before the MBA, people who wanted an ultralight only had PC options (I'll bet there were even mac users who went with a PC laptop because it was the only option in that size/weight). Now those people have mac as an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
And are more powerful the MacBookAirs- hello?
Yep. And are thicker and heavier. Is it that hard for you to understand? Or do you think that laptop hard drives are a ripoff because they're more expensive and smaller capacity? Oh, if only someone would make a 20 pound laptop with a desktop drive, your dream would come true...
Apple certainly hasn't made a strategic blunder with the MacBook AIr. More than that, often bleeding-edge technology takes a little time to gain consumer acceptance. You could say it is an "ahead of its time" machine
On the contrary I very much believe they have. Frankly in much the same way they did with the CUBE. Besides that it is a mistake to call the technology in AIR bleeding edge, all they really did was leave out a lot of stuff important to the average user. Outside of the processor it is a run of the mill machine.
Quote:
Once you get a faster chip inside the MBA plus 128 GB of SSD memory and everyone has caught on to downloading movies from iTunes, this thing is going to sell in ever increasing numbers, especially if the price comes down.
I actually don't th in the storage issue is a problem. Certainly more never hurt sales storage wise but it isn't really needed for all markets. Same thing with the processor speed. The big issue is the cost of the machine which is totally outrageous for what you get.
Quote:
The trolls have failed to trash the MBA. Despite a huge amount of criticism, the only two things that stick are the need for a removeable battery and one more USB port. Personally, I can live without either, just give me a 128 GB SSD.
If you are acknowledging short comings of the AIR then actually the trolls, as you call them, have been successful. In any event I can hardly call somebody a troll if they point out very real short comings in a device. If nothing else it gives people a different point of view to consider. As to the issues with the AIR yeah the battery and USB ports are and issue but you have failed to acknowledge that and audio in facility, Ethernet and other ports are of concern to many.
A computer like AIR, especially for its intended market of frequent travelers, really should be able to support VoIP without any effort at all. The killer here is that Analog in could have been handled the same way as on iPhone and not impact the current design one bit. What this tells me is that was not well thought out or the development team was so focused that they missed the whole concept of VoIP. Oh and yes I know about Bluetooth head sets but many of us like to keep high frequency transmitters away from our ears.
Quote:
One problem that no one has mentioned is availability. It is currently sold out in the UK.
That is a good sign!
I hope people don't get me wrong here but I do see incredible potential in AIR. It has the form factor that many could easily love and an excellent screen. The problem is the price is simply way to high for just that. Apple needs to both lower the price and address some of it short comings to really hit the sales numbers.
I completely agree. If they want to sell more they need to drop the price. $1799 is way too much for 1.6 GHz @ 4200rpm. The only thing it has going is its the thinness, which is way over priced.
No one's buying it for its supercomputer status... they'll buy it for its portability.
I think the bigger concern is that after lifting both the Air and the Macbook, Macbook sales will suffer because they feel so heavy.
People have to get over this myth that 90% of users need massive processing power. For the things most people spend 99% of their time doing, the bottleneck is bandwidth, not cpu speed.
Since Apple brings out new products to make beaucoup bucks, it seems to me that a mid tower would fill that bill better than the Air or the new MacPro. What am I missing? Would a mid tower be more of a niche product than the Air? I don't think so!
Yes, it will increase Mac and Leopard numbers, The people buying this are either replacing a Mac notebook (wash), replacing a ultralight from another vendor (increase), or buying it as an additional machine (increase).
It won't be a large increase by any means, but it will be an increase.
You don't think an thinner, ultra-light PC can be produced with appeal to a PC owner? What makes you think that only Apple can produce this?
Yep. And are thicker and heavier. Is it that hard for you to understand? Or do you think that laptop hard drives are a ripoff because they're more expensive and smaller capacity? Oh, if only someone would make a 20 pound laptop with a desktop drive, your dream would come true...
It's a niche market- end of story. I'm sure you would be the first in line to buy the next one if it's .5 inch thick and weighs 1 pound and cost $15,000
The MacBook Air is so expensive and devoid of any compelling features, besides a low weight, that it comes as a surprise that it is selling. You have to wonder when Apple will come back to it senses.
The MacBook Air is a niche product designed for an ultra premium market.
If all you can afford is a MacBook, then go and buy that, or that ugly Toshiba you seem to be enamored with.
Anyone who would buy a computer from Staples deserves an ugly machine anyway.
However, Apple has nothing to apologize for with the MacBook Air. It is what it is, and as CEO-bait to get Macs into the business market, doesn't have to sell in really high numbers to be successful.
Yeah, this is weird. Nobody expected the MBA to have the same kind of demand as a MacBook.
On the contrary if Apple hadn't messed up the AIR I could have seen it selling in numbers far exceeding the MacBook. The killer is it wouldn't have taken a lot to change people impressions of the machine. Better pricing and the proper port configurations would have done it.
The problem is the AIR just isn't the machine for many of us that need to budget our computing purchases and expect those purchase to be useful for a long time. For many of us the AIR would be OK as a secondary computer but not a primary one.
Steve just wanted a laptop that he would want to carry around. He isn't interested on what the masses want . If he was, the low end model laptop would be out-pricing the opposition like the ipod is out-pricing the zune. They will have the same attitude about the iphone.
On the contrary I very much believe they have. Frankly in much the same way they did with the CUBE.
I just don't get the cube comparison.
The cube took a machine that didn't need to be small, and made it small. It was a solution where there was no problem.
The MBA took a machine that people want as small and light as possible and made it as small and light as possible. It made some sacrifices, but it made them to optimize one of the features people value most in laptops, size and weight.
There's no logic behind calling it a "cube", it's just a knee jerk reaction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Outside of the processor it is a run of the mill machine.
If that were true, what other competing machines offer that combination of speed and screen size at that weight and price? Looking at similar machines, the MBA seems to compare well.
The complaint here seems to be simply disbelief that ANYONE would want a smaller machine, or at least pay more and make sacrifices for a smaller machine. The trolling isn't pointing out the shortcomings of the machine, it's insisting that nobody is interested in trading the size/weight benefit for those shortcomings. Or failing to understand that smaller=more expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
You don't think an thinner, ultra-light PC can be produced with appeal to a PC owner? What makes you think that only Apple can produce this?
Straw man, and straw man. Who said either of those things?
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
It's a niche market- end of story. I'm sure you would be the first in line to buy the next one if it's .5 inch thick and weighs 1 pound and cost $15,000
What the hell are you talking about? Do you actually have a point, or are you just trolling?
5. The 80 gig hard drive is a drag, but I'll just keep all my media on my 80 gig iPod until I can upgrade the hard drive in a year or so.
That's great for you if you can afford it. But most people are on a budget and don't want to have to "upgrade the hard drive in a year or so." Also, you could definitely argue that would be a pain in the butt to have to hook up your iPod every time you want something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
We know that the 1.6GHz trounces any PPC Mac notebook ever released and I assume that it would also beat any of new $500 lossleader notebooks that HP and Dell sell.
As for other notebooks in the 3lb weightlcass the MBA is hella fast. I think Sony just upped it's Vaio TZ series to a 1.33GHz LV option, which would make it the 2nd fastest in this class, I think.
But you are right, there are trade offs. I love the MBA except for the battery usage time. If they added a pound of battery for a solid 8-12 hours under normal usage I'd be typing on one right now. Cost means nothing to me if it suits my needs. I remember computers cost a lot more and did a lot less and I have disposable income now so the price means nothing if it suits my needs.
Finally, someone that sees my point of view. And you are right, in its class it's very competitive. All I was trying to do was offer an alternative argument. Everyone has hyped the MBA like it's the best thing ever, which it is pretty sweet, but if you're in the market for a laptop there are definitely other options that may be just a good if not better.
Like a lot of people have said, it's a niche market. So unless you have a specific use for it, it's not worth the money. If you're an average user, you would be better suited to get a cheaper and faster Macbook that will last you longer in terms of speed/power before it becomes obsolete.
The key for me was this part of the article: "[For these] reason[s] resellers indicate that sales of the MacBook Air have been additive to their overall Mac sales in the quarter," Munster advised clients. "The MacBook Air addresses the need for mobility unlike any other Mac, and as such we believe it is not cannibalizing sales of other Mac laptops."
Well if he actually used that word "cannibalizing" then he has lost all credibility with me.
Quote:
That, to me, shows the MBA is doing its job.
Nope I think it is to early to tell. As with all things Apple you more or less have to discount the first three months of sales before you can get a reasonable trend. The problem is that Apple has many a customer that do not make rational purchasing decisions. Call them fan-bois, early adopters or rich boys with little sense, just realize that many have needs to be meet when the purchase computing hardware that has nothing to do with the cache that comes from being the first.
if you're in the market for a laptop there are definitely other options that may be just a good if not better.
Of course. And those options include the MB and MBP. Do you really think every model should try to appeal to all people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoney35
Like a lot of people have said, it's a niche market. So unless you have a specific use for it, it's not worth the money. If you're an average user, you would be better suited to get a cheaper and faster Macbook that will last you longer in terms of speed/power before it becomes obsolete.
So get a macbook. I'm sure apple will be fine with that. Why do people seem to think that the MBA will only be a success if it steals sales from the MB? Unless you have a specific use for a mac pro, it's not worth the money. Unless you have a specific use for a MBP, it's not worth the money. Unless you have a specific use for an iPod classic, it's not worth the money. But does that mean apple should only sell the cheapest model in each line because they sell the most?
If you need a pickup truck, buy one. If you need a compact car, buy one. But complaining that a compact car isn't enough like a pickup truck is just stupid.
Comments
The MacBook Air is so expensive and devoid of any compelling features, besides a low weight, that it comes as a surprise that it is selling. You have to wonder when Apple will come back to it senses.
In Canada, Staples is selling portables from Toshiba for $799 with a DVD drive and a 160 GB hard drive, while MacBooks sell for $1,249.00 with a 80 GB hard drive and an outdated CD-ROM drive on the Canadian AppleStore.
For a MacBook with a SuperDrive DVD drive, the selling price is either $1,449.00 for a "staining" white MacBook or $1,649.00 for a black MacBook.
Is there anyopne who would say that Apple doesn't cater to a niche market?
Now, if only Steve Jobs would stop defrauding shareholders for billions of dollars in illegal stock options, maybe the prices could come down to meet the prices of Apple's competitors.
All things considered, you have to wonder how much better Apple would do with another CEO and lower prices. After 10 and 1/2 years, it's time for a change of CEO, this time with enough brains to get a university degree...
Methinks you are an angry person from up North because the iPhone has not been released there, and Apple has not lowered its prices there for its Mac products to compensate for the US$ depreciation.
Buy something else. And stop posting nonsense.
I don't agree that the MBA won't increase the mac user base - there are business users who wouldn't consider a mac until they offered a subnotebook. Now they have an option. And while the MBA is intended as a second computer, I don't think everyone necessarily needs or wants both machines on the same platform. Mac laptop and PC desktop or vice versa is better than two PC's. And two macs is better than one of each.
PC people are not going to buy 2 computers because 1 is thin and light! PC people are not going to buy an MBA unless their PC's run Leopard. You don't think a PC can be manufactured just as thin or a fast ? It's not like the iPhone where it can't be duplicated due to the OS and touch screen technology. It's just not as compelling a reason to switch if you have to buy 2 computers at once. And it's not an iTouch where Itunes has a Windows version.
The MBA is not going to increase the Leopard numbers. .
Yeah I think it will.
This is a new class of machine that Apple previously didn't offer. At least since the demise of the 12" MBP.
Yeah I think it will.
This is a new class of machine that Apple previously didn't offer. At least since the demise of the 12" MBP.
Yes, it will increase Mac and Leopard numbers, The people buying this are either replacing a Mac notebook (wash), replacing a ultralight from another vendor (increase), or buying it as an additional machine (increase).
It won't be a large increase by any means, but it will be an increase.
Macbooks are cheaper, thus they sell more?
Help me here guys.
And are more powerful the MacBookAirs- hello?
PC people are not going to buy 2 computers because 1 is thin and light! PC people are not going to buy an MBA unless their PC's run Leopard. You don't think a PC can be manufactured just as thin or a fast ? It's not like the iPhone where it can't be duplicated due to the OS and touch screen technology. It's just not as compelling a reason to switch if you have to buy 2 computers at once. And it's not an iTouch where Itunes has a Windows version.
You completely misunderstand me (and it seems like you're mostly agreeing with me).
Many people buy two computers, a desktop and a laptop. And I think people are willing to have those two machines on two different platforms, particularly if the laptop is intended for simple things like email, web, word processing, and media playback.
Before the MBA, people who wanted an ultralight only had PC options (I'll bet there were even mac users who went with a PC laptop because it was the only option in that size/weight). Now those people have mac as an option.
And are more powerful the MacBookAirs- hello?
Yep. And are thicker and heavier. Is it that hard for you to understand? Or do you think that laptop hard drives are a ripoff because they're more expensive and smaller capacity? Oh, if only someone would make a 20 pound laptop with a desktop drive, your dream would come true...
Apple certainly hasn't made a strategic blunder with the MacBook AIr. More than that, often bleeding-edge technology takes a little time to gain consumer acceptance. You could say it is an "ahead of its time" machine
On the contrary I very much believe they have. Frankly in much the same way they did with the CUBE. Besides that it is a mistake to call the technology in AIR bleeding edge, all they really did was leave out a lot of stuff important to the average user. Outside of the processor it is a run of the mill machine.
Once you get a faster chip inside the MBA plus 128 GB of SSD memory and everyone has caught on to downloading movies from iTunes, this thing is going to sell in ever increasing numbers, especially if the price comes down.
I actually don't th in the storage issue is a problem. Certainly more never hurt sales storage wise but it isn't really needed for all markets. Same thing with the processor speed. The big issue is the cost of the machine which is totally outrageous for what you get.
The trolls have failed to trash the MBA. Despite a huge amount of criticism, the only two things that stick are the need for a removeable battery and one more USB port. Personally, I can live without either, just give me a 128 GB SSD.
If you are acknowledging short comings of the AIR then actually the trolls, as you call them, have been successful. In any event I can hardly call somebody a troll if they point out very real short comings in a device. If nothing else it gives people a different point of view to consider. As to the issues with the AIR yeah the battery and USB ports are and issue but you have failed to acknowledge that and audio in facility, Ethernet and other ports are of concern to many.
A computer like AIR, especially for its intended market of frequent travelers, really should be able to support VoIP without any effort at all. The killer here is that Analog in could have been handled the same way as on iPhone and not impact the current design one bit. What this tells me is that was not well thought out or the development team was so focused that they missed the whole concept of VoIP. Oh and yes I know about Bluetooth head sets but many of us like to keep high frequency transmitters away from our ears.
One problem that no one has mentioned is availability. It is currently sold out in the UK.
That is a good sign!
I hope people don't get me wrong here but I do see incredible potential in AIR. It has the form factor that many could easily love and an excellent screen. The problem is the price is simply way to high for just that. Apple needs to both lower the price and address some of it short comings to really hit the sales numbers.
Dave
I completely agree. If they want to sell more they need to drop the price. $1799 is way too much for 1.6 GHz @ 4200rpm. The only thing it has going is its the thinness, which is way over priced.
No one's buying it for its supercomputer status... they'll buy it for its portability.
I think the bigger concern is that after lifting both the Air and the Macbook, Macbook sales will suffer because they feel so heavy.
People have to get over this myth that 90% of users need massive processing power. For the things most people spend 99% of their time doing, the bottleneck is bandwidth, not cpu speed.
Yes, it will increase Mac and Leopard numbers, The people buying this are either replacing a Mac notebook (wash), replacing a ultralight from another vendor (increase), or buying it as an additional machine (increase).
It won't be a large increase by any means, but it will be an increase.
You don't think an thinner, ultra-light PC can be produced with appeal to a PC owner? What makes you think that only Apple can produce this?
all they really did was leave out a lot of stuff important to the average user.
When will people understand that this computer is not aimed at the average user?
The big issue is the cost of the machine which is totally outrageous for what you get.
Compare to other portables weighing 3 lbs and you will find that you are wrong.
You don't think an thinner, ultra-light PC can be produced with appeal to a PC owner? What makes you think that only Apple can produce this?
History.
Yep. And are thicker and heavier. Is it that hard for you to understand? Or do you think that laptop hard drives are a ripoff because they're more expensive and smaller capacity? Oh, if only someone would make a 20 pound laptop with a desktop drive, your dream would come true...
It's a niche market- end of story. I'm sure you would be the first in line to buy the next one if it's .5 inch thick and weighs 1 pound and cost $15,000
The MacBook Air is so expensive and devoid of any compelling features, besides a low weight, that it comes as a surprise that it is selling. You have to wonder when Apple will come back to it senses.
The MacBook Air is a niche product designed for an ultra premium market.
If all you can afford is a MacBook, then go and buy that, or that ugly Toshiba you seem to be enamored with.
Anyone who would buy a computer from Staples deserves an ugly machine anyway.
However, Apple has nothing to apologize for with the MacBook Air. It is what it is, and as CEO-bait to get Macs into the business market, doesn't have to sell in really high numbers to be successful.
Yeah, this is weird. Nobody expected the MBA to have the same kind of demand as a MacBook.
On the contrary if Apple hadn't messed up the AIR I could have seen it selling in numbers far exceeding the MacBook. The killer is it wouldn't have taken a lot to change people impressions of the machine. Better pricing and the proper port configurations would have done it.
The problem is the AIR just isn't the machine for many of us that need to budget our computing purchases and expect those purchase to be useful for a long time. For many of us the AIR would be OK as a secondary computer but not a primary one.
Dave
On the contrary I very much believe they have. Frankly in much the same way they did with the CUBE.
I just don't get the cube comparison.
The cube took a machine that didn't need to be small, and made it small. It was a solution where there was no problem.
The MBA took a machine that people want as small and light as possible and made it as small and light as possible. It made some sacrifices, but it made them to optimize one of the features people value most in laptops, size and weight.
There's no logic behind calling it a "cube", it's just a knee jerk reaction.
Outside of the processor it is a run of the mill machine.
If that were true, what other competing machines offer that combination of speed and screen size at that weight and price? Looking at similar machines, the MBA seems to compare well.
The complaint here seems to be simply disbelief that ANYONE would want a smaller machine, or at least pay more and make sacrifices for a smaller machine. The trolling isn't pointing out the shortcomings of the machine, it's insisting that nobody is interested in trading the size/weight benefit for those shortcomings. Or failing to understand that smaller=more expensive.
You don't think an thinner, ultra-light PC can be produced with appeal to a PC owner? What makes you think that only Apple can produce this?
Straw man, and straw man. Who said either of those things?
It's a niche market- end of story. I'm sure you would be the first in line to buy the next one if it's .5 inch thick and weighs 1 pound and cost $15,000
What the hell are you talking about? Do you actually have a point, or are you just trolling?
5. The 80 gig hard drive is a drag, but I'll just keep all my media on my 80 gig iPod until I can upgrade the hard drive in a year or so.
That's great for you if you can afford it. But most people are on a budget and don't want to have to "upgrade the hard drive in a year or so." Also, you could definitely argue that would be a pain in the butt to have to hook up your iPod every time you want something.
We know that the 1.6GHz trounces any PPC Mac notebook ever released and I assume that it would also beat any of new $500 lossleader notebooks that HP and Dell sell.
As for other notebooks in the 3lb weightlcass the MBA is hella fast. I think Sony just upped it's Vaio TZ series to a 1.33GHz LV option, which would make it the 2nd fastest in this class, I think.
But you are right, there are trade offs. I love the MBA except for the battery usage time. If they added a pound of battery for a solid 8-12 hours under normal usage I'd be typing on one right now. Cost means nothing to me if it suits my needs. I remember computers cost a lot more and did a lot less and I have disposable income now so the price means nothing if it suits my needs.
Finally, someone that sees my point of view. And you are right, in its class it's very competitive. All I was trying to do was offer an alternative argument. Everyone has hyped the MBA like it's the best thing ever, which it is pretty sweet, but if you're in the market for a laptop there are definitely other options that may be just a good if not better.
Like a lot of people have said, it's a niche market. So unless you have a specific use for it, it's not worth the money. If you're an average user, you would be better suited to get a cheaper and faster Macbook that will last you longer in terms of speed/power before it becomes obsolete.
The key for me was this part of the article: "[For these] reason[s] resellers indicate that sales of the MacBook Air have been additive to their overall Mac sales in the quarter," Munster advised clients. "The MacBook Air addresses the need for mobility unlike any other Mac, and as such we believe it is not cannibalizing sales of other Mac laptops."
Well if he actually used that word "cannibalizing" then he has lost all credibility with me.
That, to me, shows the MBA is doing its job.
Nope I think it is to early to tell. As with all things Apple you more or less have to discount the first three months of sales before you can get a reasonable trend. The problem is that Apple has many a customer that do not make rational purchasing decisions. Call them fan-bois, early adopters or rich boys with little sense, just realize that many have needs to be meet when the purchase computing hardware that has nothing to do with the cache that comes from being the first.
Dave
if you're in the market for a laptop there are definitely other options that may be just a good if not better.
Of course. And those options include the MB and MBP. Do you really think every model should try to appeal to all people?
Like a lot of people have said, it's a niche market. So unless you have a specific use for it, it's not worth the money. If you're an average user, you would be better suited to get a cheaper and faster Macbook that will last you longer in terms of speed/power before it becomes obsolete.
So get a macbook. I'm sure apple will be fine with that. Why do people seem to think that the MBA will only be a success if it steals sales from the MB? Unless you have a specific use for a mac pro, it's not worth the money. Unless you have a specific use for a MBP, it's not worth the money. Unless you have a specific use for an iPod classic, it's not worth the money. But does that mean apple should only sell the cheapest model in each line because they sell the most?
If you need a pickup truck, buy one. If you need a compact car, buy one. But complaining that a compact car isn't enough like a pickup truck is just stupid.