I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Apple's advantage isn't pure innovation. It's innovative ideas made useable and practical.
You're right. Multitouch isn't anything new- but the ways Apple is looking to implement it is what's interesting. Surface is impressive, but not something I can see being in everyone's home. It's innovation for innovation's sake, with little practical consumer use.
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Most of us heard about the Surface when it was first introduced in a vein attempt to siphon off iPhone attention. Most of all knew about Jeff Han's multi-touch interface video long before the iPhone or Surface had working demos.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Most of us heard about the Surface when it was first introduced in a vein attempt to siphon off iPhone attention. Most of all knew about Jeff Han's multi-touch interface video long before the iPhone or Surface had working demos.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Yep, I totally agree. Apple was working on actual product that are on the market now with MT technology, M$ just debuted a bunch of vaporware that is extremely expensive and probably not going to ever be mass produced to steal some spotlight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstump
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Its funny how Apple does things relatively first (GUI, Mouse, USB, Firewire, Aqua GUI, Multi-Touch, etc...) and M$ gets credit for implementing it into the PC platform 10 years down the line. :OP
You do know the iPhone originated from tablet research don't you? The Apple guys were researching and making tablet prototypes for about a year, when the suggested to Steve they thought they could successfully bring this user interface to a phone, thus eliminating the needs for all those buttons. That gamble paid off. I think it is without a doubt in my mind going to materialize in a tablet first. Likely around Macworld 2009, or possibly even earlier.
I'd say we'll see that MT desktop keyboard at Macworld 2010, not much earlier.
You see, I think the other way around. Desktop 09, tablet 10. Though I wouldn't put it too far past Apple to actually release a smaller tablet sometime this year. Prep the market. Maybe not the Newton 2 per se but something similar, still using the current multitouch.
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
*takes a newspaper, rolls it up and thwacks bstump on the nose*
Besides, typing is a private activity, whereas speaking at a computer certainly isn't.
We won't be truly free until we have control of the computer merely by thinking the command. When Apple files for the "computer control by mind process via tinfoil hat" patent, we'll be getting there.
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Not lemmings. Just people who actually know more than you do. "Quite a while ago" for Microsoft was last May. Do you really think their work pre-dates Fingerworks, which actually had products on the market for years earlier this decade? Visit the Fingerworks website. You'll see that's exactly the technology Apple bought and is refining. How do I know? Because I've got a five year old iGesture pad sitting here next to my keyboard, and I didn't buy it as soon as it hit the market. Many of the gestures are identical to Apple's recent patents. It has nothing to do with Microsoft. You really should learn something about the market before throwing around accusations of copying. It makes you look quite foolish.
Not lemmings. Just people who actually know more than you do. "Quite a while ago" for Microsoft was last May. Do you really think their work pre-dates Fingerworks, which actually had products on the market for years earlier this decade? Visit the Fingerworks website. You'll see that's exactly the technology Apple bought and is refining. How do I know? Because I've got a five year old iGesture pad sitting here next to my keyboard, and I didn't buy it as soon as it hit the market. Many of the gestures are identical to Apple's recent patents. It has nothing to do with Microsoft. You really should learn something about the market before throwing around accusations of copying. It makes you look quite foolish.
Everything. Mice and trackballs are so 20th century. You couldn't pay me to go back on my own computer, although I still use them at work. Read the AI article from a couple of days ago. Also the Fingerworks website. Many gestures are similar or identical. In fact, using Fingerworks' software that allows me to reprogram the iGesture, I could probably come very close to the Apple patent, including the Exposé functions.
But I'm old enough to remember how long we've been looking forward to THAT ONE, too.
I think you're right, though, that the mouse-and-keyboard won't be the standard for eternity. Maybe half that
Show me a room full of people all talking to their computers using voice recognition and I'll show you the same room with a bunch of stressed out, frustrated people.
Voice recognition is fine for a few devices used in fairly secluded areas, but is certainly not for the mass market. Just think how many people get frustrated by clackity-clack keyboards as it is now, let alone 50 to 500 people in a conference all talking to their computers.
We'd have voice recognition already if it was that much better than the keyboards/mice we have now or even viable for areas with multiple people and their hardware.
Most of us heard about the Surface when it was first introduced in a vein attempt to siphon off iPhone attention. Most of all knew about Jeff Han's multi-touch interface video long before the iPhone or Surface had working demos.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
All Apple users suck big time!!!
And so do MS users and Linux users and BEOS users and OS2 users and anybody who's ever even looked at a computer!
Did I leave anyone out?
Am I banned yet?
It's amusing that Apple who avoided the two button mouse for years [too complicated!?] are now looking to do something far more fiddly. I really liked the Fingerworks concept and if they'd been available here in the UK I'd have got one.
But sometimes gestures, which I love [used them in Opera for many years now] are overkill. Especially Apple's continued avoidance of a second button on the laptop trackpad. 3 fingers are needed instead of the one on a PC laptop, just so Apple don't lose face in admitting they now sort of have the very useful second button. Though it's an improvement on having to use 2 hands.
I have to show keep showing Mac friends [one's who don't also use PCs], how to enable their hidden second button and the hidden trackpad gestures.
Anyway both Apple and MS have stolen things off each other and 3rd parties for years. Though on balance Apple are probably the worst here, for disguising the sources of 'their' innovations. Heck I'm surprised they haven't tried to take credit for the invention of the wheel yet or whitewall tyres in particular!
Oh and before anyone gets too upset at my Apple 'bashing' I own a MacPro. And a PC and a smartish phone and a pen and some paper. And a pencil sharpener.
And so do MS users and Linux users and BEOS users and OS2 users and anybody who's ever even looked at a computer!
Did I leave anyone out?
Am I banned yet?
It's amusing that Apple who avoided the two button mouse for years [too complicated!?] are now looking to do something far more fiddly. I really liked the Fingerworks concept and if they'd been available here in the UK I'd have got one.
But sometimes gestures, which I love [used them in Opera for many years now] are overkill. Especially Apple's continued avoidance of a second button on the laptop trackpad. 3 fingers are needed instead of the one on a PC laptop, just so Apple don't lose face in admitting they now sort of have the very useful second button. Though it's an improvement on having to use 2 hands.
I have to show keep showing Mac friends [one's who don't also use PCs], how to enable their hidden second button and the hidden trackpad gestures.
Anyway both Apple and MS have stolen things off each other and 3rd parties for years. Though on balance Apple are probably the worst here, for disguising the sources of 'their' innovations. Heck I'm surprised they haven't tried to take credit for the invention of the wheel yet or whitewall tyres in particular!
How do you now Apple is worse? Can you give comparisons? Don't forget that various innovations by companies are often from products that are not properly developed by other companies, but are licensed and improved upon is significant ways. Apple did that with the PARC visit by Jobs, which, by the way, he was invited, by Xerox, to make. Apple licensed those features, and then went and made major changes, and improvements. Xerox's own machines failed in the marketplace, because of their expense, and inferior design.
There are quite a few examples of this in the marketplace, and people who don't the origin, and circumstances, of their development are often led astray by others who make unfounded claims about them.
Also, often, unsuccessful concepts that are simply impossible to produce at one time, are produced later, when technology makes it possible. That's innovation as well. The first company to make an impractical idea practical, should be the one to receive the credit.
The same thing is true for a company that takes a product and makes it an important part of their focus, when others have not been willing to do so.
Several examples are Apple being the first major computer manufacturer to put a CD player into their line-up. The first to go to the 3.5" floppy (Hp followed shortly after). The first to DROP the floppy, etc.
Apple didn't invent those, but against severe criticism, went ahead and moved into those areas. They have had considerable impact.
Indeed, the internal CD player is credited with making the home computer industry possible. Before that, it was becoming almost impossible to distribute large programs and games. My last floppy upgrade of Wordperfect was on 15 double sided 3.5" floppies!
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Who is the mindless one? The iPhone with multi-touch tecnology came months before Surface and Fingerworks' products even before; Apple bought Fingerworks to help in the development of iPhone and other, new multi-touch products that are yet to come.
Seeing all spotlights pointing at the iPhone, Microsoft tried to stole attention with a useless product named Surface. Now Apple is going to strike back with an advanced multi-touch slate computer, instead of a giant table.
As Sarcastic Gamer once said, "The future is here, and it is not an iPhone, it's a big *ss table. Take that, Apple"
Ireland: The Official MultiTouch whore of Appleinsider
Well then im MultiTouch whore #2, because I am declaring that there WILL be a Macbook Touch, perhaps a smaller Mac Touch, and even an iMac Touch very, very soon.
Watch for these things to be announced by the next major update to OSX 10.6, or one of the next two Macworlds, if not sooner.
It will happen, way before we will ever see an xMac!
Comments
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Apple's advantage isn't pure innovation. It's innovative ideas made useable and practical.
You're right. Multitouch isn't anything new- but the ways Apple is looking to implement it is what's interesting. Surface is impressive, but not something I can see being in everyone's home. It's innovation for innovation's sake, with little practical consumer use.
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Most of us heard about the Surface when it was first introduced in a vein attempt to siphon off iPhone attention. Most of all knew about Jeff Han's multi-touch interface video long before the iPhone or Surface had working demos.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Most of us heard about the Surface when it was first introduced in a vein attempt to siphon off iPhone attention. Most of all knew about Jeff Han's multi-touch interface video long before the iPhone or Surface had working demos.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Yep, I totally agree. Apple was working on actual product that are on the market now with MT technology, M$ just debuted a bunch of vaporware that is extremely expensive and probably not going to ever be mass produced to steal some spotlight.
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Its funny how Apple does things relatively first (GUI, Mouse, USB, Firewire, Aqua GUI, Multi-Touch, etc...) and M$ gets credit for implementing it into the PC platform 10 years down the line. :OP
And I appreciate your respect!
You do know the iPhone originated from tablet research don't you? The Apple guys were researching and making tablet prototypes for about a year, when the suggested to Steve they thought they could successfully bring this user interface to a phone, thus eliminating the needs for all those buttons. That gamble paid off. I think it is without a doubt in my mind going to materialize in a tablet first. Likely around Macworld 2009, or possibly even earlier.
I'd say we'll see that MT desktop keyboard at Macworld 2010, not much earlier.
You see, I think the other way around. Desktop 09, tablet 10. Though I wouldn't put it too far past Apple to actually release a smaller tablet sometime this year. Prep the market. Maybe not the Newton 2 per se but something similar, still using the current multitouch.
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
*takes a newspaper, rolls it up and thwacks bstump on the nose*
NO!
Bad dog!
We do that outSIDE!
Anyone else ?
http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php
Besides, typing is a private activity, whereas speaking at a computer certainly isn't.
We won't be truly free until we have control of the computer merely by thinking the command. When Apple files for the "computer control by mind process via tinfoil hat" patent, we'll be getting there.
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Not lemmings. Just people who actually know more than you do. "Quite a while ago" for Microsoft was last May. Do you really think their work pre-dates Fingerworks, which actually had products on the market for years earlier this decade? Visit the Fingerworks website. You'll see that's exactly the technology Apple bought and is refining. How do I know? Because I've got a five year old iGesture pad sitting here next to my keyboard, and I didn't buy it as soon as it hit the market. Many of the gestures are identical to Apple's recent patents. It has nothing to do with Microsoft. You really should learn something about the market before throwing around accusations of copying. It makes you look quite foolish.
Not lemmings. Just people who actually know more than you do. "Quite a while ago" for Microsoft was last May. Do you really think their work pre-dates Fingerworks, which actually had products on the market for years earlier this decade? Visit the Fingerworks website. You'll see that's exactly the technology Apple bought and is refining. How do I know? Because I've got a five year old iGesture pad sitting here next to my keyboard, and I didn't buy it as soon as it hit the market. Many of the gestures are identical to Apple's recent patents. It has nothing to do with Microsoft. You really should learn something about the market before throwing around accusations of copying. It makes you look quite foolish.
What do you use your iGesture pad for?
When voice works, the keyboard can disappear.
But I'm old enough to remember how long we've been looking forward to THAT ONE, too.
I think you're right, though, that the mouse-and-keyboard won't be the standard for eternity. Maybe half that
Show me a room full of people all talking to their computers using voice recognition and I'll show you the same room with a bunch of stressed out, frustrated people.
Voice recognition is fine for a few devices used in fairly secluded areas, but is certainly not for the mass market. Just think how many people get frustrated by clackity-clack keyboards as it is now, let alone 50 to 500 people in a conference all talking to their computers.
We'd have voice recognition already if it was that much better than the keyboards/mice we have now or even viable for areas with multiple people and their hardware.
IMHO.
11" Mac touch FTW!!!
What I like about you Ireland, is that you never give up!
Keep up the good fight.
Most of us heard about the Surface when it was first introduced in a vein attempt to siphon off iPhone attention. Most of all knew about Jeff Han's multi-touch interface video long before the iPhone or Surface had working demos.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
He's working on a quick ban.
PS: What is it with the first post insult on this forum? I don't recall this being the norm. Oh well, c'est la vie.
All Apple users suck big time!!!
And so do MS users and Linux users and BEOS users and OS2 users and anybody who's ever even looked at a computer!
Did I leave anyone out?
Am I banned yet?
It's amusing that Apple who avoided the two button mouse for years [too complicated!?] are now looking to do something far more fiddly. I really liked the Fingerworks concept and if they'd been available here in the UK I'd have got one.
But sometimes gestures, which I love [used them in Opera for many years now] are overkill. Especially Apple's continued avoidance of a second button on the laptop trackpad. 3 fingers are needed instead of the one on a PC laptop, just so Apple don't lose face in admitting they now sort of have the very useful second button. Though it's an improvement on having to use 2 hands.
I have to show keep showing Mac friends [one's who don't also use PCs], how to enable their hidden second button and the hidden trackpad gestures.
Anyway both Apple and MS have stolen things off each other and 3rd parties for years. Though on balance Apple are probably the worst here, for disguising the sources of 'their' innovations. Heck I'm surprised they haven't tried to take credit for the invention of the wheel yet or whitewall tyres in particular!
Oh and before anyone gets too upset at my Apple 'bashing' I own a MacPro. And a PC and a smartish phone and a pen and some paper. And a pencil sharpener.
All Apple users suck big time!!!
And so do MS users and Linux users and BEOS users and OS2 users and anybody who's ever even looked at a computer!
Did I leave anyone out?
Am I banned yet?
It's amusing that Apple who avoided the two button mouse for years [too complicated!?] are now looking to do something far more fiddly. I really liked the Fingerworks concept and if they'd been available here in the UK I'd have got one.
But sometimes gestures, which I love [used them in Opera for many years now] are overkill. Especially Apple's continued avoidance of a second button on the laptop trackpad. 3 fingers are needed instead of the one on a PC laptop, just so Apple don't lose face in admitting they now sort of have the very useful second button. Though it's an improvement on having to use 2 hands.
I have to show keep showing Mac friends [one's who don't also use PCs], how to enable their hidden second button and the hidden trackpad gestures.
Anyway both Apple and MS have stolen things off each other and 3rd parties for years. Though on balance Apple are probably the worst here, for disguising the sources of 'their' innovations. Heck I'm surprised they haven't tried to take credit for the invention of the wheel yet or whitewall tyres in particular!
How do you now Apple is worse? Can you give comparisons? Don't forget that various innovations by companies are often from products that are not properly developed by other companies, but are licensed and improved upon is significant ways. Apple did that with the PARC visit by Jobs, which, by the way, he was invited, by Xerox, to make. Apple licensed those features, and then went and made major changes, and improvements. Xerox's own machines failed in the marketplace, because of their expense, and inferior design.
There are quite a few examples of this in the marketplace, and people who don't the origin, and circumstances, of their development are often led astray by others who make unfounded claims about them.
Also, often, unsuccessful concepts that are simply impossible to produce at one time, are produced later, when technology makes it possible. That's innovation as well. The first company to make an impractical idea practical, should be the one to receive the credit.
The same thing is true for a company that takes a product and makes it an important part of their focus, when others have not been willing to do so.
Several examples are Apple being the first major computer manufacturer to put a CD player into their line-up. The first to go to the 3.5" floppy (Hp followed shortly after). The first to DROP the floppy, etc.
Apple didn't invent those, but against severe criticism, went ahead and moved into those areas. They have had considerable impact.
Indeed, the internal CD player is credited with making the home computer industry possible. Before that, it was becoming almost impossible to distribute large programs and games. My last floppy upgrade of Wordperfect was on 15 double sided 3.5" floppies!
I too like the innovation that Apple brings, however, I feel like some of you people are mindless lemmings. This is nothing new, Microsoft launched Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/) quite a while ago. It's funny how nothing is "innovative" and "awesome" until Apple does it. How lame.
Who is the mindless one? The iPhone with multi-touch tecnology came months before Surface and Fingerworks' products even before; Apple bought Fingerworks to help in the development of iPhone and other, new multi-touch products that are yet to come.
Seeing all spotlights pointing at the iPhone, Microsoft tried to stole attention with a useless product named Surface. Now Apple is going to strike back with an advanced multi-touch slate computer, instead of a giant table.
As Sarcastic Gamer once said, "The future is here, and it is not an iPhone, it's a big *ss table. Take that, Apple"
What I like about you Ireland, is that you never give up!
Keep up the good fight.
Will do, thanks!!
Will do, thanks!!
Ireland: The Official MultiTouch whore of Appleinsider
Ireland: The Official MultiTouch whore of Appleinsider
Well then im MultiTouch whore #2, because I am declaring that there WILL be a Macbook Touch, perhaps a smaller Mac Touch, and even an iMac Touch very, very soon.
Watch for these things to be announced by the next major update to OSX 10.6, or one of the next two Macworlds, if not sooner.
It will happen, way before we will ever see an xMac!
Ireland: The Official MultiTouch whore of Appleinsider
I can't be a whore, I don't charge.