Don't know if anyone has posted this, its a quote from Paramount
Quote:
We are pleased that the industry is moving to a single high-definition format, as we believe it is in the best interest of the consumer. As we look to (begin) releasing our titles on Blu-ray, we will monitor consumer adoption and determine our release plans accordingly
So thats that then.
SINGLE High-definition format. Thats all I've ever wanted really.
For longer running programs I would've had to invest in an HD DVD burner, should they ever have made one.
Hence MY proprietary comment.
I'm not going to bother answering any of the FUD here any more, theres no point now with a single Hi-Def optical format.
I'm currently considering breaking my self inflicted movie buying abstinence and ordering 2001. but have my eye on an iPhone and have other outgoings to consider, but its almost impulse love that movie.
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
Cheaper for us, fool. Why would a consumer base their buying decision on how much the player costs the manufacturer? We bought HD DVD because the cost for a player was HALF of that of Blu-Ray. Regarding double-sided discs, the majority of HD DVDs weren't double-sided, and Blu-Ray discs aren't significantly cheaper FOR CONSUMERS anyhow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
better experience? with less studio support? with less room on the disc? with more expensive double sided discs? a situation that placed the consumer in a position where they were tied to a SINGLE source of players, ie a proprietary format. mm better indeed.
Yes, a better experience. Less trouble with discs. Less necessary firmware upgrades just to get a new movie to play. More interactive features (despite having less room on the disc). And regarding players, HD DVD may have been tied to Toshiba players but no Blu-Ray backer can recommend any player besides a PS3 with a straight face so what does it really matter how many more players Blu-Ray has? If HD DVD had succeeded, obviously there would have been players from other manufacturers down the line.
At a time when Blu-Ray is essentially nothing more than the movie format for PS3s, I wouldn't spout that "HD DVD was a proprietary format!" nonsense too proudly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
I guess thats why DVD failed as a format too, its DRM was just as "difficult" to break at the beginning of its life as well, not to mention that only 2 of the studios have included the extra DRM.
And WHY is no DRM so important to you, do you intend to rip content illegally? its a constant gripe, like you own shares in bit torrent
People should be able to watch a movie they buy on any device they own that plays movies; the more the studios are allowed to deny us that right, the more copies of the same damn film you'll have to buy if you want to enjoy it in more than just your living room. Putting an iPod copy on a handful of Blu-Ray discs is a nice gesture, but what good is that in a three years when the iPod can output 1080p resolution, hold 300GB, and you want to carry your entire film collection in the highest quality possible with you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
which is an actual verifiable and REAL advantage. Not being shackled to M$ teat, might have actually been an advantage as well.. you think?
What the hell difference does it make to the end consumer whether they're shackled to Microsoft's teat, or Sony's teat? None.
If HD DVD had succeeded, obviously there would have been players from other manufacturers down the line.
There were at least 3 HD DVD player manufacturers by the end. Toshiba, LG, and Venturer. You could also count Micorosoft. Did Samsung ever get their dual-format player out the door?
There were at least 3 HD DVD player manufacturers by the end. Toshiba, LG, and Venturer. You could also count Microsoft. Did Samsung ever get their dual-format player out the door?
You guys are kind to answer him, but Walter already knows this. He's just being a troll.
What is it about being a BR supporter that makes people act this way?
Walter actually had good posts going back the last couple years.
Sony fanboys have always had the chip on their shoulder, but victory is definitely bringing out the worst in them.
There were at least 3 HD DVD player manufacturers by the end. Toshiba, LG, and Venturer. You could also count Micorosoft. Did Samsung ever get their dual-format player out the door?
Yep, Samsung's player has been available for a couple months now.
It's funny but sad. I post about how HD-DVD supporters favoured a cheaper solution and lesser DRM and Marz responds with a silly strawman argument invoking the dreaded Microsoft.
He then quotes a long article about how Microsoft's power is waning, as if anyone doubts that.
Marz, reread my post again. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH MICROSOFT's motives for supporting HD-DVD.
Frank, reread the ARTICLE, if you ever did. You and others claimed that HD DVD was the "cheaper solution" all this time and talked about how from a manufacturer's cost standpoint, HD DVD was the way to go--similar production lines, similar disc structure to DVD, etc. The ARTICLE pointed out that HD DVD was really not cheaper to the consumer per se, but was a direct result of Toshiba selling their hardware at a greater loss (most likely realizing that the INDUSTRY was, is, and for the forseeable future will be behind Blu-ray). In other words, they were desperate, and attempted to play the "price" war the whole year of 2007 and it didn't get them anywhere but DEAD.
And here you all are again trumpeting the PRICE mantra...need we remind you how this has worked out for you all? Don't get me wrong, price does indeed matter, but you all act as if Blu-ray is destined to always be high and that PRICE is the only variable to a successful format. Do some research, new technology is always higher in price initiall (its called recouping your R&D), that is, unless you are using cheap PC components inside your players, or using a disc similar to DVD that adds no further protection safeguards than DVD and is smaller in storage, have internal components only capable of outputting 1080i, and are selling all this at a loss purposefully with big brother Microsoft egging you on the whole way since they are in it to be a corporat leech.
I feel no sympathy whatsoever for HD DVD proponents who have obviously chosen the wrong format now that it is dead and have willingly spread FUD and empty promises...
BD50s being science fiction (wrong),
BD being the MPEG2 format (wrong),
BD requiring cartridges, then changed to requiring a special coating and therefore not as durable as HD DVD (sooooo, wrong)
flip-flopping from interactive features not being important to being important when it suited you,
BD not ever going to implement Managed Copy in their spec (wrong),
BD having more DRM (I don't deny that Blu-ray does have an added layer of DRM, but you guys definitely put the "F" in FUD on this one, and as Walter has pointed out, what difference does it make unless you are simply intending to pirate video?),
HD DVD 51 TL discs being a reality (where you at TL51?),
Disney coming on board for HD DVD any month now (didn't happen),
porn determining the victor (nope),
ATTACH RATE mongering (that turned out to be important ),
Amazon SALES RANKS = acutal sales and actually were pertinent (wrong again),
PRICE trumps all (remember that one...wrongo!),
Nielsen/VideoScan data irrevalent (wrong on so many counts),
Nielsen/VideoScan not important because it didn't include Amazon (wrong on both of these counts as it was very important and did include Amazon data),
Cheap Chinese players to the RESCUE for HD DVD (nah, Mao will have to try and conquer another day),
Blu-ray being a Sony only format (we still have this from the intellectually challenged),
Xbox 360 add-on going to put HD DVD over the top! (did they even sell 300,000? Embarrasing, but we told you that add-ons are historically failures, did you all listen? Nope, and consequently, you were wrong again.),
Standalone sales will be what draws Warner...Warner sides with Red...(doesn't appear so, now does it?)
Paramount choosing HD DVD on merits (yeah, on the 150 million dollar bribe merit, yup wrong on this one too)
BOGO for Blu-ray every week (only happened a couple of strategic weeks, and HD DVD had them too)
and now that the war is over, that VOD is the way to go, that high-def will be forever niche, etc.
Give it up Frank, you lost the debate, along with the other HD DVD proponents here. You know it, we know it, so why don't we move on to enjoying discussion about Blu-ray and its future rather than trying to marginalize Blu-ray around every turn and bitching about price and profiles. Sheesh. You HD DVD backers want some cheese with that "whine?" Or you could just keep it up and just be gluttons for punishment.
Onkyo Corporation has announced that they have abandoned the HD DVD format and will now shift focus towards development of a Blu-ray player. The Onkyo HD DVD player shared most parts with Toshiba's HD DVD players, and since those players are now out of production, Onkyo is forced to discontinue development and production of their player as well.
In order to prevent such a situation from setting the company behind, development has been ongoing for the release of a Blu-ray player. No timeframe was given as to when consumers could expect to see an Onkyo Blu-ray player, but by the end of the year should be very plausible, if not sooner.
Amazon is having a 50% off sale on a select list of 150 HD-DVD titles. If you were planning on rounding out your collection, it might be worth a look.
I remember when LDs were being phased out Columbia House LD club was selling LDs at $10 a title to clear their inventory.
That's a great idea. Wasn't it your grandfather that stood there and watched the titanic go down and then invested in it's future trips? I'd bet it was gold mine.
Are you kidding? What idiot that knows the situation is going to buy those disks?
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
better experience? with less studio support? with less room on the disc? with more expensive double sided discs? a situation that placed the consumer in a position where they were tied to a SINGLE source of players, ie a proprietary format. mm better indeed.
I guess thats why DVD failed as a format too, its DRM was just as "difficult" to break at the beginning of its life as well, not to mention that only 2 of the studios have included the extra DRM.
And WHY is no DRM so important to you, do you intend to rip content illegally? its a constant gripe, like you own shares in bit torrent
Irrelevant rantings at best in regard to a next gen optical format, of which HD-DVD WAS one, yet apparently you at no time sought to attach these "problems" to HD-DVD, likely because it had such hidden costs to begin with and you swallowed the hyperbole, spin and P.R
which is an actual verifiable and REAL advantage. Not being shackled to M$ teat, might have actually been an advantage as well.. you think?
Your irrelevant spin is almost a joy to behold, if it wasnt for the total lack of grip on anything approaching reality.. am I to gauge from your rambling muses that BD is responsible for world hunger?
No, I suppose you are right, nothing to answer for if ignorance is forgivable, but you were informed, so it must be blind slavish sheep lust to follow the M$ teat.
If all your argument comes down to is "boo hoo the "fanboyz" won, then I don't think you have the competency for reasoned thought to engage in discussion in the first place. but please do refute anything and everything WITHOUT resort to the "fanboy" non-argument.
face up to the reality because Toshiba eventually did, and admitted that they "had no chance to win"
if you want to blindly delude yourself that that was NOT the case, then fine, just don't inflict it on the rational people.
Walter you lost all credibility here :
" Well I'll wait for your numbers from 2 years from now.. I think we'll have to agree to disagree as you seem resistant to any point of view but your own, one of imminent failure. "
I asked you a simple question which you couldn't answer.
I'm all for BR and if they come down to $199.00 in the next year sometime I'll even buy one. However your comments haven't helped and have almost turned me off.
I'll just be watching what the market does. You see I want a format this time that's going to stick around.
If you want the format to succeed you can help by not trashing the opposition. The war is over move on.
Try to have a realistic view on this whole thing. Otherwise you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Oh! And here's a little something from " The Digital Bits " today just in case some of you thought my earlier point was no big deal:
" quick word of advice to Paramount (and CBS): You guys REALLY need to say something about what you plan to do with Star Trek: The Original Series - Remastered on Blu-ray, and soon. We're getting TONS of e-mails from frustrated Trekkies, some of whom spent a lot of money on the HD-DVD Combo version of Season One, and who are now trying to figure out what they're going to do. "
Comments
We are pleased that the industry is moving to a single high-definition format, as we believe it is in the best interest of the consumer. As we look to (begin) releasing our titles on Blu-ray, we will monitor consumer adoption and determine our release plans accordingly
So thats that then.
SINGLE High-definition format. Thats all I've ever wanted really.
Linky
For longer running programs I would've had to invest in an HD DVD burner, should they ever have made one.
Hence MY proprietary comment.
I'm not going to bother answering any of the FUD here any more, theres no point now with a single Hi-Def optical format.
I'm currently considering breaking my self inflicted movie buying abstinence and ordering 2001. but have my eye on an iPhone and have other outgoings to consider, but its almost impulse
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
Cheaper for us, fool. Why would a consumer base their buying decision on how much the player costs the manufacturer? We bought HD DVD because the cost for a player was HALF of that of Blu-Ray. Regarding double-sided discs, the majority of HD DVDs weren't double-sided, and Blu-Ray discs aren't significantly cheaper FOR CONSUMERS anyhow.
better experience? with less studio support? with less room on the disc? with more expensive double sided discs? a situation that placed the consumer in a position where they were tied to a SINGLE source of players, ie a proprietary format. mm better indeed.
Yes, a better experience. Less trouble with discs. Less necessary firmware upgrades just to get a new movie to play. More interactive features (despite having less room on the disc). And regarding players, HD DVD may have been tied to Toshiba players but no Blu-Ray backer can recommend any player besides a PS3 with a straight face so what does it really matter how many more players Blu-Ray has? If HD DVD had succeeded, obviously there would have been players from other manufacturers down the line.
At a time when Blu-Ray is essentially nothing more than the movie format for PS3s, I wouldn't spout that "HD DVD was a proprietary format!" nonsense too proudly.
I guess thats why DVD failed as a format too, its DRM was just as "difficult" to break at the beginning of its life as well, not to mention that only 2 of the studios have included the extra DRM.
And WHY is no DRM so important to you, do you intend to rip content illegally? its a constant gripe, like you own shares in bit torrent
People should be able to watch a movie they buy on any device they own that plays movies; the more the studios are allowed to deny us that right, the more copies of the same damn film you'll have to buy if you want to enjoy it in more than just your living room. Putting an iPod copy on a handful of Blu-Ray discs is a nice gesture, but what good is that in a three years when the iPod can output 1080p resolution, hold 300GB, and you want to carry your entire film collection in the highest quality possible with you?
which is an actual verifiable and REAL advantage. Not being shackled to M$ teat, might have actually been an advantage as well.. you think?
What the hell difference does it make to the end consumer whether they're shackled to Microsoft's teat, or Sony's teat? None.
Cheaper for us, fool.
I pitty the foo' that bought HD-DVD! Watch out with the fool bit, it is against the posting guidelines.
I pitty the foo' that bought HD-DVD! Watch out with the fool bit, it is against the posting guidelines.
I mean it in the nicest way possible.
If HD DVD had succeeded, obviously there would have been players from other manufacturers down the line.
There were at least 3 HD DVD player manufacturers by the end. Toshiba, LG, and Venturer. You could also count Micorosoft. Did Samsung ever get their dual-format player out the door?
There were at least 3 HD DVD player manufacturers by the end. Toshiba, LG, and Venturer. You could also count Microsoft. Did Samsung ever get their dual-format player out the door?
You guys are kind to answer him, but Walter already knows this. He's just being a troll.
What is it about being a BR supporter that makes people act this way?
Walter actually had good posts going back the last couple years.
Sony fanboys have always had the chip on their shoulder, but victory is definitely bringing out the worst in them.
There were at least 3 HD DVD player manufacturers by the end. Toshiba, LG, and Venturer. You could also count Micorosoft. Did Samsung ever get their dual-format player out the door?
Yep, Samsung's player has been available for a couple months now.
I remember when LDs were being phased out Columbia House LD club was selling LDs at $10 a title to clear their inventory.
Amazon is having a 50% off sale on a select list of 150 HD-DVD titles. If you were planning on rounding out your collection, it might be worth a look.
It's actually been that way for several weeks now; I don't think the real firesales on discs have begun yet.
It's funny but sad. I post about how HD-DVD supporters favoured a cheaper solution and lesser DRM and Marz responds with a silly strawman argument invoking the dreaded Microsoft.
He then quotes a long article about how Microsoft's power is waning, as if anyone doubts that.
Marz, reread my post again. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH MICROSOFT's motives for supporting HD-DVD.
Frank, reread the ARTICLE, if you ever did. You and others claimed that HD DVD was the "cheaper solution" all this time and talked about how from a manufacturer's cost standpoint, HD DVD was the way to go--similar production lines, similar disc structure to DVD, etc. The ARTICLE pointed out that HD DVD was really not cheaper to the consumer per se, but was a direct result of Toshiba selling their hardware at a greater loss (most likely realizing that the INDUSTRY was, is, and for the forseeable future will be behind Blu-ray). In other words, they were desperate, and attempted to play the "price" war the whole year of 2007 and it didn't get them anywhere but DEAD.
And here you all are again trumpeting the PRICE mantra...need we remind you how this has worked out for you all? Don't get me wrong, price does indeed matter, but you all act as if Blu-ray is destined to always be high and that PRICE is the only variable to a successful format. Do some research, new technology is always higher in price initiall (its called recouping your R&D), that is, unless you are using cheap PC components inside your players, or using a disc similar to DVD that adds no further protection safeguards than DVD and is smaller in storage, have internal components only capable of outputting 1080i, and are selling all this at a loss purposefully with big brother Microsoft egging you on the whole way since they are in it to be a corporat leech.
I feel no sympathy whatsoever for HD DVD proponents who have obviously chosen the wrong format now that it is dead and have willingly spread FUD and empty promises...
BD50s being science fiction (wrong),
BD being the MPEG2 format (wrong),
BD requiring cartridges, then changed to requiring a special coating and therefore not as durable as HD DVD (sooooo, wrong)
flip-flopping from interactive features not being important to being important when it suited you,
BD not ever going to implement Managed Copy in their spec (wrong),
BD having more DRM (I don't deny that Blu-ray does have an added layer of DRM, but you guys definitely put the "F" in FUD on this one, and as Walter has pointed out, what difference does it make unless you are simply intending to pirate video?),
HD DVD 51 TL discs being a reality (where you at TL51?),
Disney coming on board for HD DVD any month now (didn't happen),
porn determining the victor (nope),
ATTACH RATE mongering (that turned out to be important
Amazon SALES RANKS = acutal sales and actually were pertinent (wrong again),
PRICE trumps all (remember that one...wrongo!),
Nielsen/VideoScan data irrevalent (wrong on so many counts),
Nielsen/VideoScan not important because it didn't include Amazon (wrong on both of these counts as it was very important and did include Amazon data),
Cheap Chinese players to the RESCUE for HD DVD (nah, Mao will have to try and conquer another day),
Blu-ray being a Sony only format (we still have this from the intellectually challenged),
Xbox 360 add-on going to put HD DVD over the top! (did they even sell 300,000? Embarrasing, but we told you that add-ons are historically failures, did you all listen? Nope, and consequently, you were wrong again.),
Standalone sales will be what draws Warner...Warner sides with Red...(doesn't appear so, now does it?)
Paramount choosing HD DVD on merits (yeah, on the 150 million dollar bribe merit, yup wrong on this one too)
BOGO for Blu-ray every week (only happened a couple of strategic weeks, and HD DVD had them too)
and now that the war is over, that VOD is the way to go, that high-def will be forever niche, etc.
Give it up Frank, you lost the debate, along with the other HD DVD proponents here. You know it, we know it, so why don't we move on to enjoying discussion about Blu-ray and its future rather than trying to marginalize Blu-ray around every turn and bitching about price and profiles. Sheesh. You HD DVD backers want some cheese with that "whine?" Or you could just keep it up and just be gluttons for punishment.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1024
Onkyo Corporation has announced that they have abandoned the HD DVD format and will now shift focus towards development of a Blu-ray player. The Onkyo HD DVD player shared most parts with Toshiba's HD DVD players, and since those players are now out of production, Onkyo is forced to discontinue development and production of their player as well.
In order to prevent such a situation from setting the company behind, development has been ongoing for the release of a Blu-ray player. No timeframe was given as to when consumers could expect to see an Onkyo Blu-ray player, but by the end of the year should be very plausible, if not sooner.
Amazon is having a 50% off sale on a select list of 150 HD-DVD titles. If you were planning on rounding out your collection, it might be worth a look.
I remember when LDs were being phased out Columbia House LD club was selling LDs at $10 a title to clear their inventory.
That's a great idea. Wasn't it your grandfather that stood there and watched the titanic go down and then invested in it's future trips? I'd bet it was gold mine.
Are you kidding? What idiot that knows the situation is going to buy those disks?
Sony fanboys have always had the chip on their shoulder, but victory is definitely bringing out the worst in them.
Coming from a Toshiba fanboy?
I'd stop using that word if I were you. It's not helping your case.
Which was a false assumption because Toshiba was loosing hundreds per player sold.
double sided discs cost more.
better experience? with less studio support? with less room on the disc? with more expensive double sided discs? a situation that placed the consumer in a position where they were tied to a SINGLE source of players, ie a proprietary format. mm better indeed.
I guess thats why DVD failed as a format too, its DRM was just as "difficult" to break at the beginning of its life as well, not to mention that only 2 of the studios have included the extra DRM.
And WHY is no DRM so important to you, do you intend to rip content illegally? its a constant gripe, like you own shares in bit torrent
Irrelevant rantings at best in regard to a next gen optical format, of which HD-DVD WAS one, yet apparently you at no time sought to attach these "problems" to HD-DVD, likely because it had such hidden costs to begin with and you swallowed the hyperbole, spin and P.R
which is an actual verifiable and REAL advantage. Not being shackled to M$ teat, might have actually been an advantage as well.. you think?
Your irrelevant spin is almost a joy to behold, if it wasnt for the total lack of grip on anything approaching reality.. am I to gauge from your rambling muses that BD is responsible for world hunger?
No, I suppose you are right, nothing to answer for if ignorance is forgivable, but you were informed, so it must be blind slavish sheep lust to follow the M$ teat.
If all your argument comes down to is "boo hoo the "fanboyz" won, then I don't think you have the competency for reasoned thought to engage in discussion in the first place. but please do refute anything and everything WITHOUT resort to the "fanboy" non-argument.
face up to the reality because Toshiba eventually did, and admitted that they "had no chance to win"
if you want to blindly delude yourself that that was NOT the case, then fine, just don't inflict it on the rational people.
Walter you lost all credibility here :
" Well I'll wait for your numbers from 2 years from now.. I think we'll have to agree to disagree as you seem resistant to any point of view but your own, one of imminent failure. "
I asked you a simple question which you couldn't answer.
I'm all for BR and if they come down to $199.00 in the next year sometime I'll even buy one. However your comments haven't helped and have almost turned me off.
I'll just be watching what the market does. You see I want a format this time that's going to stick around.
If you want the format to succeed you can help by not trashing the opposition. The war is over move on.
Try to have a realistic view on this whole thing. Otherwise you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Oh! And here's a little something from " The Digital Bits " today just in case some of you thought my earlier point was no big deal:
" quick word of advice to Paramount (and CBS): You guys REALLY need to say something about what you plan to do with Star Trek: The Original Series - Remastered on Blu-ray, and soon. We're getting TONS of e-mails from frustrated Trekkies, some of whom spent a lot of money on the HD-DVD Combo version of Season One, and who are now trying to figure out what they're going to do. "
Coming from a Toshiba fanboy?
I'd stop using that word if I were you. It's not helping your case.
I honestly don't know if I have ever owned a Toshiba product.
Maybe our family had a turntable back in the day.
That's markedly different from a bunch of PS3 losers jumping on the bandwagon because it's the format that came for free with their machine.
(A reply to Marz' latest nonsense is forthcoming...)
I honestly don't know if I have ever owned a Toshiba product.
Maybe our family had a turntable back in the day.
That's markedly different from a bunch of PS3 losers jumping on the bandwagon because it's the format that came for free with their machine.
(A reply to Marz' latest nonsense is forthcoming...)
So owning a PS3 makes someone a loser? You have lost any credibility you had. You sound very bitter right now, why so much hate and ignorance?
I mean it in the nicest way possible.
yeah right.
Toshiba HAS given up, its in the past. DEAL with it.
You could also count Micorosoft.
Who supplied the drive? - CLUE = Toshiba.
Wherever you get your info, I'd suggest a new source.
You guys are kind to answer him, but Walter already knows this. He's just being a troll.
What is it about being a BR supporter that makes people act this way?
Walter actually had good posts going back the last couple years.
Sony fanboys have always had the chip on their shoulder, but victory is definitely bringing out the worst in them.
Is name calling all you really have left?