If Apple really cared, they simply would have sold all the iPhones as unlocked devices everywhere, at the same time. The decision to create exclusivity contracts with particular carriers got them into the mess, and now they have to deal with it.
Nominated for dumbest post on the net today.
If Apple really cared, they would give them away free.........
As I understand it, Rogers doesn't have much competition in Canada.
Since you think it's so easy, why don't you go and start a mobile network in Canada and start making your easy money?
I agree. It's foolish to compare rates across different countries. The cost of creating a mobile network across all or most of Canada is significantly more than building a network in Hong Kong.
The questions that need to be asked are:
1. Does the carrier's plans for iPhone cost more than plans for other smartphones (data plan required) from that same carrier?
2. Does the carrier's plans for iPhone cost more than plans for smartphones (data plan required) from other carriers in that same country?
2a. If yes, can the cost difference be reasonably accounted for by other factors (better coverage, better service, etc)?
I haven't done the research for Canada, though based on what I've read the answer to both questions is YES. For the US, the answer to both is NO, though on the 2nd question, one carrier (Sprint) does seem to regularly offer cheaper plans.
what are the other carriers charging for say blackberry, instinct, etc data and voice plans, how much more is roger's compared to the rest of canada's carriers?
As someone that was been anxiously awaiting the iPhones arrival in Canada during the past 1.5 years (why I was anxious I don't know, it's a phone!) I am now looking at alternatives to the iphone like a cell phone and an iPod Touch. I'm just not into spending $100 total each month and NOT getting unlimited data. I can live with 150 weekday minutes, but the data cap is a killer. I don't want to have to think about whether I'm over the limit or not. I don't want to count MB's! I was all signed up to buy one the day of release, but not now.
Just curious... what are AT&T's roaming rates in Canada like? It would be funny if I could buy a US iPhone and give my money to AT&T while using the phone and living in Canada for the same price as Rogers is gouging me for. That would be a sweet kick of sand in Rogers face!
The thing that kills me about all of the cell phone data plans and the broadband prices out there is that they are pretty much making pure profit off of all of these things. It's not like they have to "manufacture and distribute" an actual physical commodity. They just have to make sure that the network is open and up and running.
It would be like me charging someone to get onto my WiFi network at home. Once I covered all my expenses of the hardware and service that I have to pay, it is all profit and I don't have to lift a finger to do anything.... ANYTHING!
I work in the telecom industry and the capital cost to the providers is very high. New technology in the industry is changing daily and newer, faster networks are being implemented daily. For example most of the main players in the US are moving to 4G (LTE) now. Is this free to implement, no. This equipment is not bought off of the shelf, it is usually modified to the customers needs in their network. And just a rack of equipment cost in the hundreds of thousands. Plus, TELCORDIA requires redundancy so multiply the cost by a minimum of two.
Now, I agree the cost of some these providers is out of line, including AT&T, but to say there is no cost involved is naive.
If the iPhone was unlocked you could order it from the Apple Store and pop in your existing SIM card, thus you won´t tie yourself to a nasty multi-year plan...
You'd probably already be on a nasty multi-year plan if you already had a Rogers SIM card!
Is it possible that the Apple Store isn't selling the phones b/c they couldn't come up with a process to sign new customers into a Rogers phone contract?
It seems logical that, since the sign-up process is complicated, the Apple stores in Canada may have not been able to figure out how to make the sign-up process a seamless experience.
Also, maybe this was part of the contract agreement between Rogers and Apple (at least for the first little while?) - if the Apple store sells the phone, Rogers does not get the revenue from the handset sale. I realize that the Apple store will want to sell the handsets, but my guess is that this was possibly part of the launch strategy.
What evidence is there that this is Apple punishing Rogers for anything? There's not even any evidence that this selling arrangement wasn't the plan all along.
As a result, Canadian Apple Retail stores won't be selling the new 3G touchscreen phones come Friday, representatives for the Cupertino-based company said during a private conference call on Monday evening. Instead, it will be up to Rogers and its partner Fido to lock subscribers into steep 3-year contracts that require a minimum monthly payment of $60 for just 150 minutes, 75 text messages, and 400MB of data.
How much of the above, did the, "…representatives for the Cupertino-based company…" say?
I was informed that the Apple Canada Stores were never going to be selling the iPhone. If I remember rightly, the Where to buy iPhone (http://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/buy/) is the same today as it was three weeks ago.
In fact, I set up an appointment to pick up my iPhone for next Friday 3 weeks ago via my local Rogers rep because the iPhone was not being sold in the Apple Retail Store (ARS). Why would I bother to check out my ARS? I have a corporate account and I was inquiring if my corporate discount was applicable.
If Apple really cared, they simply would have sold all the iPhones as unlocked devices everywhere, at the same time. The decision to create exclusivity contracts with particular carriers got them into the mess, and now they have to deal with it.
Is it possible that the Apple Store isn't selling the phones b/c they couldn't come up with a process to sign new customers into a Rogers phone contract?
It seems logical that, since the sign-up process is complicated, the Apple stores in Canada may have not been able to figure out how to make the sign-up process a seamless experience.
Also, maybe this was part of the contract agreement between Rogers and Apple (at least for the first little while?) - if the Apple store sells the phone, Rogers does not get the revenue from the handset sale. I realize that the Apple store will want to sell the handsets, but my guess is that this was possibly part of the launch strategy.
Thoughts?
Agreed. The Apple.ca site has never indicated that iPhones would be available for sale at Apple stores in Canada. When you click on 'Where to Buy', Apple.ca has always referred you to either the Rogers or Fido's websites.
I work in the telecom industry and the capital cost to the providers is very high. New technology in the industry is changing daily and newer, faster networks are being implemented daily. For example most of the main players in the US are moving to 4G (LTE) now. Is this free to implement, no. This equipment is not bought off of the shelf, it is usually modified to the customers needs in their network. And just a rack of equipment cost in the hundreds of thousands. Plus, TELCORDIA requires redundancy so multiply the cost by a minimum of two.
Now, I agree the cost of some these providers is out of line, including AT&T, but to say there is no cost involved is naive.
Your last sentence is where my "reasoning" is coming from. I, as a consumer who works in a physical commodity industry, cannot see the justness of the prices being placed on a digital "invisible" commodity.
Although I am upset and have signed the ruinediphone petition, this statement is probably the most inteligent observation yet of why Apple stores will not be selling the iphone, not some greater plot on Apple's behalf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybersport
Question for everyone:
Is it possible that the Apple Store isn't selling the phones b/c they couldn't come up with a process to sign new customers into a Rogers phone contract?
It seems logical that, since the sign-up process is complicated, the Apple stores in Canada may have not been able to figure out how to make the sign-up process a seamless experience.
Also, maybe this was part of the contract agreement between Rogers and Apple (at least for the first little while?) - if the Apple store sells the phone, Rogers does not get the revenue from the handset sale. I realize that the Apple store will want to sell the handsets, but my guess is that this was possibly part of the launch strategy.
It would be like me charging someone to get onto my WiFi network at home. Once I covered all my expenses of the hardware and service that I have to pay, it is all profit and I don't have to lift a finger to do anything.... ANYTHING!
What happens when you leave town and the internet goes down? Do you send a tech out to fix it at your house?
Running a network is full of costs, "real" as you see them, and labor as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac
Typical greed.
When you get your paycheck, do you give everything over your costs of living back to your company as a gift? Why do you need all that extra over and above what it costs you to provide the service you provide at the office?
Comments
If Apple really cared, they simply would have sold all the iPhones as unlocked devices everywhere, at the same time. The decision to create exclusivity contracts with particular carriers got them into the mess, and now they have to deal with it.
Nominated for dumbest post on the net today.
If Apple really cared, they would give them away free.........
Since you think it's so easy, why don't you go and start a mobile network in Canada and start making your easy money?
I agree. It's foolish to compare rates across different countries. The cost of creating a mobile network across all or most of Canada is significantly more than building a network in Hong Kong.
The questions that need to be asked are:
1. Does the carrier's plans for iPhone cost more than plans for other smartphones (data plan required) from that same carrier?
2. Does the carrier's plans for iPhone cost more than plans for smartphones (data plan required) from other carriers in that same country?
2a. If yes, can the cost difference be reasonably accounted for by other factors (better coverage, better service, etc)?
I haven't done the research for Canada, though based on what I've read the answer to both questions is YES. For the US, the answer to both is NO, though on the 2nd question, one carrier (Sprint) does seem to regularly offer cheaper plans.
http://www.thisegg.com/iphone/canadaiphone.html
Just curious... what are AT&T's roaming rates in Canada like? It would be funny if I could buy a US iPhone and give my money to AT&T while using the phone and living in Canada for the same price as Rogers is gouging me for. That would be a sweet kick of sand in Rogers face!
Typical greed.
The thing that kills me about all of the cell phone data plans and the broadband prices out there is that they are pretty much making pure profit off of all of these things. It's not like they have to "manufacture and distribute" an actual physical commodity. They just have to make sure that the network is open and up and running.
It would be like me charging someone to get onto my WiFi network at home. Once I covered all my expenses of the hardware and service that I have to pay, it is all profit and I don't have to lift a finger to do anything.... ANYTHING!
I work in the telecom industry and the capital cost to the providers is very high. New technology in the industry is changing daily and newer, faster networks are being implemented daily. For example most of the main players in the US are moving to 4G (LTE) now. Is this free to implement, no. This equipment is not bought off of the shelf, it is usually modified to the customers needs in their network. And just a rack of equipment cost in the hundreds of thousands. Plus, TELCORDIA requires redundancy so multiply the cost by a minimum of two.
Now, I agree the cost of some these providers is out of line, including AT&T, but to say there is no cost involved is naive.
Nominated for dumbest post on the net today.
If Apple really cared, they would give them away free.........
Fail.
If the iPhone was unlocked you could order it from the Apple Store and pop in your existing SIM card, thus you won´t tie yourself to a nasty multi-year plan...
You'd probably already be on a nasty multi-year plan if you already had a Rogers SIM card!
Is it possible that the Apple Store isn't selling the phones b/c they couldn't come up with a process to sign new customers into a Rogers phone contract?
It seems logical that, since the sign-up process is complicated, the Apple stores in Canada may have not been able to figure out how to make the sign-up process a seamless experience.
Also, maybe this was part of the contract agreement between Rogers and Apple (at least for the first little while?) - if the Apple store sells the phone, Rogers does not get the revenue from the handset sale. I realize that the Apple store will want to sell the handsets, but my guess is that this was possibly part of the launch strategy.
Thoughts?
Does the contract have to run out or pay the piper for canceling the contract so that they can buy the iPhone ?
In case of City Fido guys - will not be allowed to get a new phone under subsidy unless they agree to add the $6.96 a month forever.
As a result, Canadian Apple Retail stores won't be selling the new 3G touchscreen phones come Friday, representatives for the Cupertino-based company said during a private conference call on Monday evening. Instead, it will be up to Rogers and its partner Fido to lock subscribers into steep 3-year contracts that require a minimum monthly payment of $60 for just 150 minutes, 75 text messages, and 400MB of data.
How much of the above, did the, "…representatives for the Cupertino-based company…" say?
I was informed that the Apple Canada Stores were never going to be selling the iPhone. If I remember rightly, the Where to buy iPhone (http://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/buy/) is the same today as it was three weeks ago.
In fact, I set up an appointment to pick up my iPhone for next Friday 3 weeks ago via my local Rogers rep because the iPhone was not being sold in the Apple Retail Store (ARS). Why would I bother to check out my ARS? I have a corporate account and I was inquiring if my corporate discount was applicable.
If Apple really cared, they simply would have sold all the iPhones as unlocked devices everywhere, at the same time. The decision to create exclusivity contracts with particular carriers got them into the mess, and now they have to deal with it.
Definitely agree with you
Question for everyone:
Is it possible that the Apple Store isn't selling the phones b/c they couldn't come up with a process to sign new customers into a Rogers phone contract?
It seems logical that, since the sign-up process is complicated, the Apple stores in Canada may have not been able to figure out how to make the sign-up process a seamless experience.
Also, maybe this was part of the contract agreement between Rogers and Apple (at least for the first little while?) - if the Apple store sells the phone, Rogers does not get the revenue from the handset sale. I realize that the Apple store will want to sell the handsets, but my guess is that this was possibly part of the launch strategy.
Thoughts?
Agreed. The Apple.ca site has never indicated that iPhones would be available for sale at Apple stores in Canada. When you click on 'Where to Buy', Apple.ca has always referred you to either the Rogers or Fido's websites.
Definitely agree with you
How does the unlock help when there is only a single carrier? You still have to purchase services in your local area, locked or unlocked.
In this case, there is only a single player in Canada.
I work in the telecom industry and the capital cost to the providers is very high. New technology in the industry is changing daily and newer, faster networks are being implemented daily. For example most of the main players in the US are moving to 4G (LTE) now. Is this free to implement, no. This equipment is not bought off of the shelf, it is usually modified to the customers needs in their network. And just a rack of equipment cost in the hundreds of thousands. Plus, TELCORDIA requires redundancy so multiply the cost by a minimum of two.
Now, I agree the cost of some these providers is out of line, including AT&T, but to say there is no cost involved is naive.
Your last sentence is where my "reasoning" is coming from. I, as a consumer who works in a physical commodity industry, cannot see the justness of the prices being placed on a digital "invisible" commodity.
Question for everyone:
Is it possible that the Apple Store isn't selling the phones b/c they couldn't come up with a process to sign new customers into a Rogers phone contract?
It seems logical that, since the sign-up process is complicated, the Apple stores in Canada may have not been able to figure out how to make the sign-up process a seamless experience.
Also, maybe this was part of the contract agreement between Rogers and Apple (at least for the first little while?) - if the Apple store sells the phone, Rogers does not get the revenue from the handset sale. I realize that the Apple store will want to sell the handsets, but my guess is that this was possibly part of the launch strategy.
Thoughts?
It would be like me charging someone to get onto my WiFi network at home. Once I covered all my expenses of the hardware and service that I have to pay, it is all profit and I don't have to lift a finger to do anything.... ANYTHING!
What happens when you leave town and the internet goes down? Do you send a tech out to fix it at your house?
Running a network is full of costs, "real" as you see them, and labor as well.
Typical greed.
When you get your paycheck, do you give everything over your costs of living back to your company as a gift? Why do you need all that extra over and above what it costs you to provide the service you provide at the office?