iMac: Glossy or Matte - Which Would You Prefer?

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  • Reply 101 of 126
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 877member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sybaritic View Post


    You make a good point. I don't mean to suggest that getting accurate color is easy just because a person is using a matte screen. What I am saying is that the glossy screen introduces additional complexity to an already complex process.



    There are some people here that WILL not like the iMac glossy screen, and nobody is going to be able to make them. This is right up there with "None are so blind as those that won't see." However, there are a great many satisfied glossy screen iMac users.



    Marvin, do you think that it's possible for you to show the glossy iMac displays in worse lighting? Personally, I doubt it. If you don't want to set it up properly, then you don't, but please don't try to tell me that it's a flaw when I have no such issues with mine.



    You guys really are too much.
  • Reply 102 of 126
    Those are some great links from Marvin and Sybaritic. And in no way am I saying that color critical work is going to be easy on an iMac. Suffice it to say that if you are spending money to buy and use colormeters then the iMac is not your computer anymore (was is really ever?)..



    My grievances go way back with this thread as some matte supporters have called the machine unusable. I just want it to be known that I have been using my iMac for a year now and the world has not ended nor have I lost any business with what I am doing. Perhaps it is a shame that the display is no longer SWOP certified. But I do prefer the glossy screen, I do not get migraines from the machine. and sitting directly in front of the machine I do not have any glare issues from where I sit. To boot, the aluminum iMacs are much more little kid friendly with the glass and work great in a home environment where the computer serves several needs.



    Sybaritic. I am from Knoxville so I guess I better cut you some slack. Hope you all enjoy the new iMacs at your work.
  • Reply 103 of 126
    sybariticsybaritic Posts: 340member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    My grievances go way back with this thread as some matte supporters have called the machine unusable. I just want it to be known that I have been using my iMac for a year now and the world has not ended nor have I lost any business with what I am doing.

    Sybaritic. I am from Knoxville so I guess I better cut you some slack. Hope you all enjoy the new iMacs at your work.



    Cgyn, let me apologize again for coming off like a pedantic hothead. As you say, the glossy iMac is very much a usable and vital machine?so much so that I wish I could find a way to use it for just about all that I do. I really like working on it. And as you point out, the glossy iMac cleans up much better than the typical matte screen. We're tickled that we'll have five brand new ones in our group ... along with a new Mac Pro to be hooked up to a slightly "duller" screen.



    Go Vols!
  • Reply 104 of 126
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,836moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zinfella View Post


    Marvin, do you think that it's possible for you to show the glossy iMac displays in worse lighting?



    I'm trying to find ones in 'good' lighting. It's actually really difficult to find images of the new iMac without reflections but I have put in the effort and I believe I found one:







    However, in my travels, I also found:







    Now, what's that person supposed to do? All the lights are out and the blinds are shut. Are they supposed to paint their windows black or perhaps rearrange their entire office so the screen faces away from the window? Or does he just get a matte screen where this wouldn't be a problem.



    This is the point. Put a matte next to a glossy in most standard office lighting conditions and the matte is better:







    Even if you manage to control your lighting, you simply can't guarantee a good result:







    I've used a glossy display to watch movies before and even with the blinds down and the lights out, I was able to see the people next to me in the screen. This is very uncomfortable as it feels like you are staring at them throughout the movie.



    If you're not happy with the images, by all means all the people with glossy screens are free to post pictures of their own setups. I'd ask that if you manage to take images without reflections that you are honest about whether you needed to adjust the display, the lighting etc in order to get the result you wanted. If any of you have matte displays, posting side-by-side comparisons would be helpful too.



    If you don't have a camera, you can maybe hold up a mirror and take an isight snap. When uploading, reduce the size to 800x600 or as close as you can get - you can use Seashore, which is free to reduce the image size and compress to 80% JPEG quality. imageshack.us is fine for hosting the images, simply upload and copy the last link they give you. Then paste the link between img tags.
  • Reply 105 of 126
    Quote:





    Thanks Marvin for all the pics. I would suggest that all pics submitted be straight on like this one and the second one. As if you are the person in front and using the computer. Several of the later shots are taken at such angles that the person in front would not be seeing those reflections.



    Quote:





    Quote:

    Now, what's that person supposed to do? All the lights are out and the blinds are shut. Are they supposed to paint their windows black or perhaps rearrange their entire office so the screen faces away from the window? Or does he just get a matte screen where this wouldn't be a problem.



    Obviously this person did not take his/her iMac back and get a matte screen. Perhaps you should ask this iMac owner if they like their iMac. Wait and see if THEY bring up issues with glare. Maybe do that with all the pics you are taking. I mean if glare is so bad as you say, surely all these people would not have and enjoy the iMacs that they have and use.



    Quote:

    This is the point. Put a matte next to a glossy in most standard office lighting conditions and the matte is better:



    All I will say is a majority (albeit slim) here voted in favor of the glossy screens. Glare or no glare, your point is an opinion.



    Quote:

    I've used a glossy display to watch movies before and even with the blinds down and the lights out, I was able to see the people next to me in the screen. This is very uncomfortable as it feels like you are staring at them throughout the movie.



    So you have never watched a cathode ray TV and seen the same thing? I think I am starting to understand this better. We people who like the glossy screens are focusing on our work or in this case the movie. While others are getting side tracked on nuances. I'm telling you, I work on my iMac most every day and I am not freaking or even conscious of glare.
  • Reply 106 of 126
    jitenjiten Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Do you hear people complain that there is a lack of a glossy option?




    Come to think of it. You are right, we never had big (sometimes silly) arguments that we needed glossy when the whole Apple line were matte. In fact, I remember reading Mac users lament on how terrible that PC notebooks are starting to use those horrible glossy screens.
  • Reply 107 of 126
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,836moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    Thanks Marvin for all the pics. I would suggest that all pics submitted be straight on like this one and the second one. As if you are the person in front and using the computer. Several of the later shots are taken at such angles that the person in front would not be seeing those reflections.



    It wouldn't be entirely objective to limit the review to a straight on view though. Where I work, we work collectively on jobs and pretty much every day we look at each other's screens for collaborative work. We have to look at screens at an angle. So glossy can be used just fine in certain lighting front on. Matte can be used in a wider variety of lighting and at extreme angles. Having a greater resilience to varying lighting and viewing angles makes it a more capable display.



    As always 'better' is not universally quantifiable. Is a display better if it shows nicer, deeper colors in a given controlled environment or is a display better because you don't have to put nearly as much effort into reaching these environmental conditions? It will depend on whether you have the ability to control your lighting (home users should be ok but office workers hardly at all).



    From a technical standpoint, matte is superior for color critical tasks - that isn't an opinion. When the new iMacs or any glossy LCD display receive their SWOP-certification then there should be no problem but I don't see it happening.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    Perhaps you should ask this iMac owner if they like their iMac. Wait and see if THEY bring up issues with glare. Maybe do that with all the pics you are taking. I mean if glare is so bad as you say, surely all these people would not have and enjoy the iMacs that they have and use.



    They love the iMac performance-wise but the reason they post the pics usually is that this is the only part they dislike. Some of them say despite disliking it, they manage to phase it out over time. That part is subjective. Some people can phase out having a ticking clock in a bedroom, I can't. Either way, it doesn't change the existence of the ticking.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    All I will say is a majority (albeit slim) here voted in favor of the glossy screens. Glare or no glare, your point is an opinion.



    I'm not suggesting that everyone should dislike glossy, my opinion is that there should be a choice and that for there to be one model, logically glossy was worse to go with. Despite people possibly preferring glossy, glossy fans wouldn't complain about being stuck with matte. The converse isn't true.



    Majority vote on this poll is in favor of matte:



    http://forums.macnn.com/69/mac-noteb...vs-matte-poll/



    I actually didn't manage to vote in this thread's poll, it was closed so there goes that lead of 1 vote.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    So you have never watched a cathode ray TV and seen the same thing?



    Not to the same extent. I use a CRT display every day as well as an LCD and although I much prefer the deep blacks on the CRT, I prefer the unblemished color and sharpness of the matte LCD. Nonetheless, neither of them act like a mirror. The Mac screens are all flat and don't diffuse the reflections at all.



    I actually think it's about time we got displays that are designed to have the best of both. Produce deep blacks and vivid colors without heavy dependence on surrounding conditions. Laser TVs seem to be pretty good:







    bright colors but without the desaturation or reflections.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post


    I work on my iMac most every day and I am not freaking or even conscious of glare.



    That however doesn't imply anything about me. I do have an issue with the displays and so do others. You seem to be saying that because you don't have an issue with it no one else should. That's not how the real world works. As I've said before, if manufacturers only had to satisfy one group of consumers their job would be a lot easier. You either satisfy multiple groups or ignore them, it's obvious which route Apple chose. True you can't satisfy everyone but when the numbers are so close, having two options isn't much to ask.
  • Reply 108 of 126
    gastroboygastroboy Posts: 530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zinfella View Post


    There are some people here that WILL not like the iMac glossy screen, and nobody is going to be able to make them. This is right up there with "None are so blind as those that won't see." However, there are a great many satisfied glossy screen iMac users.



    Marvin, do you think that it's possible for you to show the glossy iMac displays in worse lighting? Personally, I doubt it. If you don't want to set it up properly, then you don't, but please don't try to tell me that it's a flaw when I have no such issues with mine.



    You guys really are too much.



    I was just reading a book the other day on the major revolutions in medicine back in the late 19th century. Anaesthetics was right up there but the single greatest contribution to mankind was basic hygiene.



    It was interesting just how hard it was to get doctors to wash their hands and recognise the dire consequences of not doing so. There was an overwhelming majority who thought it sissy, unprofessional!, and that essentially there was "no problem". They were so used to throwing the bodies into the cemeteries out the back of the hospitals, that it was an accepted reality.



    Problem? What problem? None for those who didn't face the day to day issue of major surgery, and even for those who did, but chose to "make it go away" by ignoring it.



    There is no 2 ways around it, the glossy screen may be a shiny decor item, but it is "dirty" with reflections, glare and color taint when it comes down to doing accurate color for print or even video.



    I can freely move from the matte white iMac 24" models to the latest glossy aluminium iMac 24" and the difference is glaringly obvious. We are forced to keep the glossy iMac in the darkest part of the studio and I have to take relatively frequent breaks when working on it and my eyes weep after using it for some time.



    I never have that trouble with the matte iMacs and note how those using them happily sit at work all day with nary a break. The dulling of the matte screens is not at all apparent when you are seated in the work position and the color is far, far more realistic and accurate. No question!



    I do appreciate the speed of the new iMac, the price, and how much easier it is to keep clean. If only it were matte and not so glary.



    "We have listened to what you are saying, and the answer is NO!" - the eternal Apple customer response.
  • Reply 109 of 126
    mr fishmr fish Posts: 31member
    I have both the iMac (matte) and the Macbook (glossy) and I have no glare whatsoever with my Macbook (using it now).
  • Reply 110 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    It wouldn't be entirely objective to limit the review to a straight on view though. Where I work, we work collectively on jobs and pretty much every day we look at each other's screens for collaborative work. We have to look at screens at an angle. So glossy can be used just fine in certain lighting front on. Matte can be used in a wider variety of lighting and at extreme angles. Having a greater resilience to varying lighting and viewing angles makes it a more capable display.



    Okay, Marvin. Just so long as straight on shots are included. Now the viewing angle is something I would call disappointing on the iMacs. Doesn't make the mattes look any more pleasant to look at though. And yes, that is just my opinion.



    Quote:

    ..... It will depend on whether you have the ability to control your lighting (home users should be ok but office workers hardly at all).



    Not to defend Apple but the iMac is marketed as a consumer machine (which has been stated in this thread before). I am amazed how many companies choose to purchase and use them instead of Mac Pros. Designers (in companies) have been turning off lights and adjusting their environments for years (even when CRTs and mattes where the only option). Not sure why it is such a big deal now with the iMacs...



    Quote:

    ............Majority vote on this poll is in favor of matte:



    http://forums.macnn.com/69/mac-noteb...vs-matte-poll/



    Not sure about that poll and if it ever closed but that thread is dated to 2006 and is talking about Mac Books and MBPs. This poll was done in 2007 (around August maybe?) and is exclusively about the iMac.



    Quote:

    ........ I do have an issue with the displays and so do others. You seem to be saying that because you don't have an issue with it no one else should. That's not how the real world works. As I've said before, if manufacturers only had to satisfy one group of consumers their job would be a lot easier. You either satisfy multiple groups or ignore them, it's obvious which route Apple chose. True you can't satisfy everyone but when the numbers are so close, having two options isn't much to ask.



    If I have come across saying everyone should prefer glossy, than my apologies. My irritation has been others who have called the glossy displays "unusable," and who seem to be saying because they have an issue with it, everyone else should too.
  • Reply 111 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    .....................................and my eyes weep after using it for some time.







    Nice touch. Maybe begin the story with: "It was a dark and stormy night at the glossy iMac."



    Just playing with you gastroboy. Not trying to start a flame war...
  • Reply 112 of 126
    gastroboygastroboy Posts: 530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mr fish View Post


    I have both the iMac (matte) and the Macbook (glossy) and I have no glare whatsoever with my Macbook (using it now).



    I have both a Macbook and an iMac 24" and one thing that can't help escaping my notice is that a Macbook is not an iMac 24".
  • Reply 113 of 126
    gastroboygastroboy Posts: 530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cygnusrk727 View Post






    Nice touch. Maybe begin the story with: "It was a dark and stormy night at the glossy iMac."



    Just playing with you gastroboy. Not trying to start a flame war...



    No offense taken.



    Actually it starts " The asteroid slowly and majestically tumbled through space, alternately dimly glowing and obscuring the net of stars before his eyes? damn where is that windshield wiper!"



  • Reply 114 of 126
    I love my glossy iMac. I use it in a dark room most of the time, on half brightness. Wonderful machine and its my favorite second to the G4 iMac's.
  • Reply 115 of 126
    mr fishmr fish Posts: 31member
    Are the Apple Cinema Displays glossy?
  • Reply 116 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mr fish View Post


    Are the Apple Cinema Displays glossy?



    No.



    At least....not yet.
  • Reply 117 of 126
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    I don't have a such a big problem with the reflections caused by Apple laptops. Given the choice between glossy or matte I'd pick matte EVERY time, but I can quite happily get by with the glossy laptop displays.



    The iMac however is different kettle of fish. The problem is not down to the display per se, but rather that fact that Apple choose to mount a separate panel of glass in front of it. From a purely functional point of view, there is absolutely no need for it.



    So why did Apple choose to do this? Well I believe that it simply comes down to what looks good in the store. There is no doubt that the aluminium iMacs look gorgeous ? until you actually sit down and start using them.



    Apple has chosen cosmetics over functionality in the quest for greater market share, and going by their sales figures, it's worked a treat.
  • Reply 118 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Messiah View Post


    The problem is not down to the display per se, but rather that fact that Apple choose to mount a separate panel of glass in front of it. From a purely functional point of view, there is absolutely no need for it.



    I would propose one function for the glass; Keeping little kid fingers from pressing and dirtying up the display. The iMac line is one of the most common computers found in primary schools. And cleaning a glass panel is much easier than cleaning a display.
  • Reply 119 of 126
    If you really care about getting Apple to bring back the matte screen to the iMac, register your protest here:



    bringbackmatteimac.blogspot.com
  • Reply 120 of 126
    I read all the posts and I agree with both sides of the discussion...and there is my problem. I want to switch to a Mac but I can't make the decision to go iMac or a Mac Pro w/ a matte screen. Currently using an Eizo FX-C6 CRT that i still prefer over LCD displays but it is only 17" and can't last much longer. Photos look very good and text is razor sharp.

    Most people are comparing photos or video. I agree that a cinema display seems to be more accurate for photos but text appears to be slightly blurred on matte screens including the cinema displays. I have been to two Apple stores and other places to compare and I get the same results. I have read that the matte finish scatters light to reduce reflections and this causes less contrast. The text appears sharper to me on the iMac and I like the deeper blacks but I have concerns about the design that force me towards the MP.
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