I year ago I spent hours comparing TVs in multiple stores. Kept coming back to the plasma and I haven't looked back. For a very bright room I'd probably choose an LCD.
Good choice. And I get why you'd say that. But modern plasma usually have better glare dampeners.
I've been looking at the AppleInsider forums for quite a while now, without registering. But seeing this topic made me want to give my thoughts out to others and went ahead to register so I can reply back to the thread.
The TV business is HUGE! We have makers from Sony, Pioneer, Vizio, Phillips, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, JVC, Panasonic, Zenith, RCA, and much more! How do you figure Apple is going to penetrate into this business? They were only successful with the iPhone launch because there were not as nearly as much makers (than TV) and Smartphones have not been penetrated in the people as much as TVs have. There are probably so many more TVs (flat panel) out there than there are Smartphones (all companies combined). It would be very hard for Apple to enter in this business. They started with the Apple TV which was kind of a flop (too expensive).
As one user stated in this thread, the margins are so small in the TV industry that Apple will never want to touch it, unless having a huge price premium over other TVs. Imagine this, Apple's 46in TV would probably cost $3k+ while you can get a 46in Vizio for $1300 or under. And with interface and UI, what easier can be made? It's pretty simple already imo.
Lastly, I just think it is un-Applish for them to move towards the TV industry. And if they ever do, it would just be the next Mac Mini for them.
I kinda think this thread was started in jest. But anyway, there's little they could accomplish in the TV biz. If anything they'd just expand on the AppleTV concept to control the interface among devices and content where tangible value can still be obtained.
Particularly when OpenCable/tru2way standards flesh out. In a couple years they could have the ultimate STB/DVR/iTunes/Blu box if they wanted.
No, wasn't. The TV is the living room mechanism for entertaining. Apple could make it a big business for them, and it would also become a content play via iTunes also. Like Apple TV, but for regular folks. You buy the TV, which looks good and is easy to use, and it has a nice number of powerful yet, easy-to-use features with great integration and that Apple touch. There's room for improvement, and the TV is the real trojan-horse to get into the living room, along with the box they would continue to sell. Your living room could have an Apple television that could do most anything, including doubling as a great casual gaming device with iPod and iPhone controllers. And if you wanted a PS3 or a 360 you could plug that straight in.
What's more, this one be one of the few living rooms where you'd have just one remote... OUT-OF-THE-BOX.
No funky universal remotes to be bought, set-up or programmed. Just one TV, and an elegant, simple remote. Though probably not the remote that comes with the existing Apple TV. Probably a TV-edition remote.
I wouldn't deny the convenience of the AIO package, but it wouldn't play out that way as a trojan horse. The STB would sell much greater numbers than a full-blown TV would.
I wouldn't deny the convenience of the AIO package, but it wouldn't play out that way as a trojan horse. The STB would sell much greater numbers than a full-blown TV would.
I don't know if I agree with that. I can see why you might think that, but people need TV's also, and if Apple made a sexy AIO TV that was easy to use, powerful, and had great software people would buy it. Also, the thing is this TV Show subscription service could be huge, and they could sell the TV's with a 12 month contract for it (iTunes TV Show subscription service). They could even use that to subsidize the TV cost, "possibly". It could be a big thing.
You're kind of romanticizing the product more than appreciating the logistics. People aren't going to switch their TVs, whereas an STB has a built-in potential market of 100+ million on day 1. Of course there will be some "switchers" but there's no logistical or statistical reason to believe those numbers would come close to the former.
Beating a dead horse? Oh shut up. If you don't think Apple is eyeing this space, then, in my opinion you are either stupid or naive, or you just can't see the bigger picture for where Apple are going.
They want the living room, the TV is the fucking living room.
hehehehe
somebody is a little testy here
Grow up kid. You need to learn that if people disagrees with you means a good thing.
If you were the "Mr. knows it all" and the one who is "always right", how boring would your life be.
You must be a lonely dude.
At this point I do hope Apple indeed creates your "wet dream" TV, so everybody here can have a break of you creating half a dozen of threads per year to talk about the same thing over and over.
Like I said, keep beating that dead horse on!
Walter, thanks man. I am glad some people here have common sense.
Grow up kid. You need to learn that if people disagrees with you means a good thing.
Kid? LOL. You're a funny guy. Just because I've an opinion in this matter doesn't mean I think I know it all, I don't. And just because you and a few other here disagree with me on this matter doesn't mean I am wrong about it.
I happen to believe Apple will make a TV - so shoot me! We'll see what happens. I can't wait for it. Not to prove I was right all along, but to buy one and use the damn thing. It's a product category I believe makes sense for Apple, you don't. Let's agree to disagree.
IF Apple do make TV, what will they bring to the table that others haven't?
Since it is the best interest to apple that people buys from Itunes, therefore they wouldn't want to add TV - recording to their appleTV?
I always thought TV in living room idea is a little out of date. Nowadays nearly everyone have a TV in their own room. So how about small 24" TV for bedroom?
But if you could do 24" TV for bedroom, why not a TV - Monitor Hydrid? Mac + TV Fusion?
Let's say that the TV actually comes out. What are they going to do different than other TV makers? The TV has been out for a long time and not many people like change. Especially when they got their smoking hot new 50in HDTV, they don't want to be spending over 2-3x more than what they spent previous for a new set. And, it would take a few years for consumers to think their TV is "old stuff". It's not like computers how in 1-2 years, its old stuff.
After having nearly a couple weeks to think about it I still think it may be a direction for Apple to head into at some point, but I'm not 100% convinced it's the product transition that will be lowering profit margins.
One thing I think Apple have learned in the last few years is to exploit the Halo Effect. iTunes isn't a great revenue earner, but it facilitates addition iPod sales. iPod sales lead further customers not exposed to the Apple eco-system to get new Mac computers where the real profits are.
A kick ass Apple HDTV (I'll stay out of the plasma/LCD arguments) ........
...... I was thinking of coming up with some great reason why an Apple HDTV will lead to more sales of Macs, which is Apples core profit driver and it occurred to me that an Apple HDTV will drastically eat into Mac sales!!
You see if Steve and company where really going to jump into the HDTV business seriously it wouldn't be a functionally stripped down OSx media center to only play iTunes and YouTube content through Front Row. The device will have Front Row driven interface but additionally it can have the following features;
- wireless keyboard / mouse capabilities
- possible "Touch" based remote control or iPhone/iTouch full remote control.
- full safari browser
- Mail
- iPhoto
- DVD or Blu-Ray drive
- DVR functionality
- ARM based CPU giving iPhone 2.0 software compatibility
- App Store (same iPhone apps/games will work "out of the box")
Rather than the Apple HDTV expanding the sales of Mac's it will be a full Internet experience in the living room to be used by customers INSTEAD of a PC or Mac. The majority of people only every use a Mac or PC to send/receive email or browse the Internet. Apart from viewing them as attachments in emails or from websites they don't create PDF's or write their own Word docs or Spreadsheets.
Sure it won't be the final solution for 100% of users and the technology press will jump all over it saying it's crippled and lacks features and functionality of a true PC/Mac. They always complain though, like the lack of a 5MegaPixel camera on the iPhone etc. But for Mum and Dad, Aunty Sally, heck Nanna and Grandad and millions of normal people who are not geeks it's exactly what they want.
The one problem with this whole concept of an Apple HDTV revolutionizing how regular people use and interact with the internet is the pervasiveness of p0rn. Apple has always had a "family friendly" view of the Internet which naively pretends p0rn doesn't exist or is not popular or something. Hows a guy to get his regular dose or p0rn if the Internet comes through the TV in the lounge and your wife/mother/other family member keeps walking in when you trying to have a moment alone
Oh! One More Thing... With Apples own retail stores all around the world, they can sell the majority of their own Apple HDTV's themselves. Sure the margins are less than a Mac Pro, buy they will have a distinct competitively advantage of being able sell their own products at full retail, which the majority of other high-end Internet capable HDTV makes will not be able to do.
Apple doesn't have the partnerships lined up to make a TV that doesn't suck because the worst interfaces are with the cable companies and sat companies. Even with a cable card Apple can't offer a universal UI even in the US that doesn't suck.
Ireland's wishful thinking aside, an Apple HDTV is pretty much DOA. Frankly, Microsoft is better positioned given they have a IPTV offering that AT&T and others are already using and aren't a competitor like Apple is with iTunes.
The device will have Front Row driven interface but additionally it can have the following features;
- wireless keyboard / mouse capabilities
- possible "Touch" based remote control or iPhone/iTouch full remote control.
- full safari browser
- Mail
- iPhoto
- DVD or Blu-Ray drive
- DVR functionality
- ARM based CPU giving iPhone 2.0 software compatibility
- App Store (same iPhone apps/games will work "out of the box")
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It's not about bringing the computer (Mac) into the living room in my opinion, it's about making the TV more useful/powerful, and yet easier to use. It's about giving the TV some OS X goodness under the hood, but not making that apparent. Most won't even know it runs OS X, they'll just be like "wow, this is cool".
So no Mail, no iPhoto, no Safari, no DVR, and no App store. A casual gaming store, maybe, but that's about it. You won't need a DVR if you can get a TV subscription to the iTunes store, so you can go and watch any show whenever you want. You'll never need to record again. It could have live news and sports, and have records of them so you can go back in the store and watch the "not live" stuff. Buy or rent movies from the couch, and buy music etc. Also, news ala an RSS store might be cool. You could add your own stuff in there too. And get your news right on your TV, that would be cool and every-day-useful. The stuff the leave out is as important as the stuff they add in. It should be interesting.
Apple doesn't have the partnerships lined up to make a TV that doesn't suck because the worst interfaces are with the cable companies and sat companies. Even with a cable card Apple can't offer a universal UI even in the US that doesn't suck.
Ireland's wishful thinking aside, an Apple HDTV is pretty much DOA. Frankly, Microsoft is better positioned given they have a IPTV offering that AT&T and others are already using and aren't a competitor like Apple is with iTunes.
I'll admit, those are Apple's biggest hurdles. I hope they are working on that.
The trouble is it's tricky to hear me sell you it, but I could show you. Look at good plasma and LCD side-by-side and you'll just get it for yourself. That and I know that jobs prefers plasmas, he's mentioned it, and I believe he has them in his house.
does he also have running water?
you think Apple would get into the bottled water racket?
..Actually, thats not a bad idea! after all I've been a water user all my life.
Comments
I year ago I spent hours comparing TVs in multiple stores. Kept coming back to the plasma and I haven't looked back. For a very bright room I'd probably choose an LCD.
Good choice. And I get why you'd say that. But modern plasma usually have better glare dampeners.
The TV business is HUGE! We have makers from Sony, Pioneer, Vizio, Phillips, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, JVC, Panasonic, Zenith, RCA, and much more! How do you figure Apple is going to penetrate into this business? They were only successful with the iPhone launch because there were not as nearly as much makers (than TV) and Smartphones have not been penetrated in the people as much as TVs have. There are probably so many more TVs (flat panel) out there than there are Smartphones (all companies combined). It would be very hard for Apple to enter in this business. They started with the Apple TV which was kind of a flop (too expensive).
As one user stated in this thread, the margins are so small in the TV industry that Apple will never want to touch it, unless having a huge price premium over other TVs. Imagine this, Apple's 46in TV would probably cost $3k+ while you can get a 46in Vizio for $1300 or under. And with interface and UI, what easier can be made? It's pretty simple already imo.
Lastly, I just think it is un-Applish for them to move towards the TV industry. And if they ever do, it would just be the next Mac Mini for them.
Particularly when OpenCable/tru2way standards flesh out. In a couple years they could have the ultimate STB/DVR/iTunes/Blu box if they wanted.
I kinda think this thread was started in jest.
No, wasn't. The TV is the living room mechanism for entertaining. Apple could make it a big business for them, and it would also become a content play via iTunes also. Like Apple TV, but for regular folks. You buy the TV, which looks good and is easy to use, and it has a nice number of powerful yet, easy-to-use features with great integration and that Apple touch. There's room for improvement, and the TV is the real trojan-horse to get into the living room, along with the box they would continue to sell. Your living room could have an Apple television that could do most anything, including doubling as a great casual gaming device with iPod and iPhone controllers. And if you wanted a PS3 or a 360 you could plug that straight in.
What's more, this one be one of the few living rooms where you'd have just one remote... OUT-OF-THE-BOX.
No funky universal remotes to be bought, set-up or programmed. Just one TV, and an elegant, simple remote. Though probably not the remote that comes with the existing Apple TV. Probably a TV-edition remote.
I wouldn't deny the convenience of the AIO package, but it wouldn't play out that way as a trojan horse. The STB would sell much greater numbers than a full-blown TV would.
I don't know if I agree with that. I can see why you might think that, but people need TV's also, and if Apple made a sexy AIO TV that was easy to use, powerful, and had great software people would buy it. Also, the thing is this TV Show subscription service could be huge, and they could sell the TV's with a 12 month contract for it (iTunes TV Show subscription service). They could even use that to subsidize the TV cost, "possibly". It could be a big thing.
Beating a dead horse? Oh shut up. If you don't think Apple is eyeing this space, then, in my opinion you are either stupid or naive, or you just can't see the bigger picture for where Apple are going.
They want the living room, the TV is the fucking living room.
hehehehe
somebody is a little testy here
Grow up kid. You need to learn that if people disagrees with you means a good thing.
If you were the "Mr. knows it all" and the one who is "always right", how boring would your life be.
You must be a lonely dude.
At this point I do hope Apple indeed creates your "wet dream" TV, so everybody here can have a break of you creating half a dozen of threads per year to talk about the same thing over and over.
Like I said, keep beating that dead horse on!
Walter, thanks man. I am glad some people here have common sense.
Grow up kid. You need to learn that if people disagrees with you means a good thing.
Kid? LOL. You're a funny guy. Just because I've an opinion in this matter doesn't mean I think I know it all, I don't. And just because you and a few other here disagree with me on this matter doesn't mean I am wrong about it.
I happen to believe Apple will make a TV - so shoot me! We'll see what happens. I can't wait for it. Not to prove I was right all along, but to buy one and use the damn thing. It's a product category I believe makes sense for Apple, you don't. Let's agree to disagree.
I am glad you are LOL now instead of cursing people over.
Maybe you are growing up after all.
good,
I am glad you are LOL now instead of cursing people over.
Maybe you are growing up after all.
Maybe I am.
Since it is the best interest to apple that people buys from Itunes, therefore they wouldn't want to add TV - recording to their appleTV?
I always thought TV in living room idea is a little out of date. Nowadays nearly everyone have a TV in their own room. So how about small 24" TV for bedroom?
But if you could do 24" TV for bedroom, why not a TV - Monitor Hydrid? Mac + TV Fusion?
Particularly when OpenCable/tru2way standards flesh out. In a couple years they could have the ultimate STB/DVR/iTunes/Blu box if they wanted.
I remember a rumor that Apple was working on emulating a Tru2way cable card in software. Can't remember where I read it, though.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...19#post1282419
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...45#post1282445
After having nearly a couple weeks to think about it I still think it may be a direction for Apple to head into at some point, but I'm not 100% convinced it's the product transition that will be lowering profit margins.
One thing I think Apple have learned in the last few years is to exploit the Halo Effect. iTunes isn't a great revenue earner, but it facilitates addition iPod sales. iPod sales lead further customers not exposed to the Apple eco-system to get new Mac computers where the real profits are.
A kick ass Apple HDTV (I'll stay out of the plasma/LCD arguments) ........
...... I was thinking of coming up with some great reason why an Apple HDTV will lead to more sales of Macs, which is Apples core profit driver and it occurred to me that an Apple HDTV will drastically eat into Mac sales!!
You see if Steve and company where really going to jump into the HDTV business seriously it wouldn't be a functionally stripped down OSx media center to only play iTunes and YouTube content through Front Row. The device will have Front Row driven interface but additionally it can have the following features;
- wireless keyboard / mouse capabilities
- possible "Touch" based remote control or iPhone/iTouch full remote control.
- full safari browser
- Mail
- iPhoto
- DVD or Blu-Ray drive
- DVR functionality
- ARM based CPU giving iPhone 2.0 software compatibility
- App Store (same iPhone apps/games will work "out of the box")
Rather than the Apple HDTV expanding the sales of Mac's it will be a full Internet experience in the living room to be used by customers INSTEAD of a PC or Mac. The majority of people only every use a Mac or PC to send/receive email or browse the Internet. Apart from viewing them as attachments in emails or from websites they don't create PDF's or write their own Word docs or Spreadsheets.
Sure it won't be the final solution for 100% of users and the technology press will jump all over it saying it's crippled and lacks features and functionality of a true PC/Mac. They always complain though, like the lack of a 5MegaPixel camera on the iPhone etc. But for Mum and Dad, Aunty Sally, heck Nanna and Grandad and millions of normal people who are not geeks it's exactly what they want.
The one problem with this whole concept of an Apple HDTV revolutionizing how regular people use and interact with the internet is the pervasiveness of p0rn. Apple has always had a "family friendly" view of the Internet which naively pretends p0rn doesn't exist or is not popular or something. Hows a guy to get his regular dose or p0rn if the Internet comes through the TV in the lounge and your wife/mother/other family member keeps walking in when you trying to have a moment alone
Oh! One More Thing... With Apples own retail stores all around the world, they can sell the majority of their own Apple HDTV's themselves. Sure the margins are less than a Mac Pro, buy they will have a distinct competitively advantage of being able sell their own products at full retail, which the majority of other high-end Internet capable HDTV makes will not be able to do.
Ireland's wishful thinking aside, an Apple HDTV is pretty much DOA. Frankly, Microsoft is better positioned given they have a IPTV offering that AT&T and others are already using and aren't a competitor like Apple is with iTunes.
The device will have Front Row driven interface but additionally it can have the following features;
- wireless keyboard / mouse capabilities
- possible "Touch" based remote control or iPhone/iTouch full remote control.
- full safari browser
- Mail
- iPhoto
- DVD or Blu-Ray drive
- DVR functionality
- ARM based CPU giving iPhone 2.0 software compatibility
- App Store (same iPhone apps/games will work "out of the box")
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It's not about bringing the computer (Mac) into the living room in my opinion, it's about making the TV more useful/powerful, and yet easier to use. It's about giving the TV some OS X goodness under the hood, but not making that apparent. Most won't even know it runs OS X, they'll just be like "wow, this is cool".
So no Mail, no iPhoto, no Safari, no DVR, and no App store. A casual gaming store, maybe, but that's about it. You won't need a DVR if you can get a TV subscription to the iTunes store, so you can go and watch any show whenever you want. You'll never need to record again. It could have live news and sports, and have records of them so you can go back in the store and watch the "not live" stuff. Buy or rent movies from the couch, and buy music etc. Also, news ala an RSS store might be cool. You could add your own stuff in there too. And get your news right on your TV, that would be cool and every-day-useful. The stuff the leave out is as important as the stuff they add in. It should be interesting.
Apple doesn't have the partnerships lined up to make a TV that doesn't suck because the worst interfaces are with the cable companies and sat companies. Even with a cable card Apple can't offer a universal UI even in the US that doesn't suck.
Ireland's wishful thinking aside, an Apple HDTV is pretty much DOA. Frankly, Microsoft is better positioned given they have a IPTV offering that AT&T and others are already using and aren't a competitor like Apple is with iTunes.
I'll admit, those are Apple's biggest hurdles. I hope they are working on that.
ok, i'll take a nibble on this one:
In what way would this be a transition?
bingo!
The trouble is it's tricky to hear me sell you it, but I could show you. Look at good plasma and LCD side-by-side and you'll just get it for yourself. That and I know that jobs prefers plasmas, he's mentioned it, and I believe he has them in his house.
does he also have running water?
you think Apple would get into the bottled water racket?
..Actually, thats not a bad idea! after all I've been a water user all my life.