Look at the component make up of AIR and convince me there is anything advanced in that machine beyond the processor packaging. The pricing on AIR is a massive joke.
Dave
Then why don't you convince us that it's a $700 notebook by breaking down the parts and R&D. Since we don't have actual prices on the chip packaging, go ahead and use $284 for the new chip at that speed and package, which is bound to be cheaper than what is in there right now.
I think you should wait until there is something more than analyst speculation before you claim victory. Also Apple doesn't drop prices "like a rock" they just cancel the product.
Oh you must mean how the canceled iPhone 1 before dropping the price.
In this case though I do believe they will cancel the product soon. They will do this to limit their exposure to warranty issues and law suits. It may or may not get replaced with an updated unit.
The funny thing with AiR is that it from all appearnces does have hardware issues worthy of pursuit. IPhone 3G on the other hand is pretty solid hardware wise but people sue over it's performance for no validated reason.
I don't mean to sound like an a$$ either but AIR is a very limited machine and debuted when smaller more capable machines hit the market. It as a computing device certainly has it's niche but that niche isn't big enough to justfy production. It is like the Cube in many ways.
By the way I believe AIR is saveable as a platform. To do that though Apple needs to leap over a few hurdles. One is processor performance, AIR needs to be able to consitantly run it's processor at full speed. The second issue is I/O which has already been exponded upon.
Ok, then you can't really believe that the HUGE market that wants an ultra-portable laptop, really ever viewed the macbook air as a viable option. Sure a ton of us went out and bought it as we love macs, and we wanted something smaller than the macbook. Heck I bought one, but never sold my Lenovo X61 as it was just smaller and easier to carry around. I would use my macbook air while "couch-surfing" but thats about it. It just falls short in so many areas, the main one being small. That is what the ultraportable market wants. A SMALL laptop.
My macbook air is gone so now is my Lenovo X61.
If Apple comes out with a notebook/netbook. That has a 9 or 10 inch screen, has the Atom processor, or some deviation of, where the ram and hard drive can easily be swapped, and has a user swappable battery, running OS X. I will gladly pay DOUBLE what the other netbooks cost.
You can mark my words, the macbook air will be dead completely in 1 year if Apple continues it in its current form. I am so confident I will give anyone 5 to 1 odds, with a $1,000 minimum on my end.
Its usually Apple that bursts on the scene with this hot new product, but I think they really got blindsided here. As the numbers keep stacking up through the holiday, Im sure Apple will see the mistake they made.
You've hit on some really good points. I've always believed that Apple's R&D 2 years ago should have gone in to exactly that- an utra small portable without the phone. The phone industry is so fickle and all we've heard is complaints of the call quality, etc, etc, etc. Apple could have been leading in this department and instead will be following it. The iPod Touch is cool but a fraction of all that I want. Hopefully one will be coming out this fall and/or at least by MacWorld Jan. If not I may be forced to buy a Sony Vaio TZ and not have the Apple OS. I want something small and full functioned not a cafeteria- sized tray that's impaired.
I think that after SL is released the MBA will move to a cheaper dual core Atom chip and the price will drop below $1000.
The processors in the is only around $284 and $316, while the fastest Atom chips are $70 and $135. Coincidently, the Atom chips are the same respective speeds as the current Air, but the drop in performance would make it incredibly slow. This would be a very costly change and completely alter the market it's aimed at. There is plenty of room for Apple to keep the MBA at the top end of an ultra-lightweight notebook and have a UMPC for a tablet Mac using Atom. They don't have to destroy one to make the other.
The US has a 72yo running for President of the US and you're biggest concern is with a 53yo CEO of a company. You act as if he's an old man who can't run the company and assume that no one else has been groomed to take over as CEO.
That's a F*#k up comparison.
John MacCain looks robust and healthy. His mother is 96 and could run rings around most 60 year olds I've ever met. SJobs on the other hand and sorry to say this- does not. Big difference. He's not looking healthy to say it kindly.
My point is age does not make a difference and is relative and those remarks are age discriminatory.
It was a failure from the start. There is only so big people are willing to go without an optical drive and stuff. If it doesn't have the extras like an optical drive then people expect and want it to be mini sized like the gadgets above. If it is going to be as big as the MBA (which is still essentially as big as a PowerBook/MacBook), then people expect it to come with everything you need for an "8 hour work day". An 8 hour work day for many is not just sitting behind a desk for 8 hours and opening Word files and exchanging emails
What does it have to offer besides being a bit slimmer? Nothing really. Oh wait. It is prohibitively expensive. Actually that I AM RICH iPhone application would've been perfect for the MBA.
I've always believed that Apple's R&D 2 years ago should have gone in to exactly that- an utra small portable without the phone. The phone industry is so fickle and all we've heard is complaints of the call quality, etc, etc, etc. Apple could have been leading in this department and instead will be following it. The iPod Touch is cool but a fraction of all that I want. Hopefully one will be coming out this fall and/or at least by MacWorld Jan. If not I may be forced to buy a Sony Vaio TZ and not have the Apple OS. I want something small and full functioned not a cafeteria- sized tray that's impaired.
I guess the Air suffers from being a bleeding edge machine that is 200 days old. It will probably just converge with the MacBook (as MacBooks get thinner) which would be a very cool thing.
But a MacBook Mini would be a better business case for a third laptop. $500 Apple tax is a lot to wear on a laptop. $200 Apple tax is not a lot on a super portable. A mini laptop won't cannibalize laptop / desktop sales (since you still need a real computer) and iPhones would still sell (since they are portable). The market would be business travelers, students, etc.
Also, some workers (programmers and scientists, or graphic designers who are forced to work in a Windows shop) like to take their MacBook in to work, and plug it into work monitor / keyboards . A smaller macbook would make this a lot more viable.
I'm with you Joe, also a perfect MBA customer. I use mine for emails, surfing, KEYNOTE (none of that Powerpoint crap), MSN and charging my iPhone from time-to-time. I travel a lot within the city, and overseas so its the perfect fit. I have a desktop for the large stuff!
I agree to what most are saying, its a niche market need that Apple play in very well indeed.
Short of the SSD disk drive, what's more advanced in the Air? Don't say the processor, that's an old chip in a different package. The have a smaller motherboard, but that's not more "advanced", rather just a set of choices and trade-offs.
I don't think it should cost $700 though.
You are 100% wrong. It is custom chip made specifically for the MBA.
The processors in the is only around $284 and $316, while the fastest Atom chips are $70 and $135. Coincidently, the Atom chips are the same respective speeds as the current Air, but the drop in performance would make it incredibly slow. This would be a very costly change and completely alter the market it's aimed at. There is plenty of room for Apple to keep the MBA at the top end of an ultra-lightweight notebook and have a UMPC for a tablet Mac using Atom. They don't have to destroy one to make the other.
If SL improves system performance then overall feel might not be that bad.
The cost savings might be $200. That's nothing to sneeze at. Admittedly they still have a ways to go to get it under $1000.
Dual core atom netbooks will only undercut MBA sales even more. The product needs repositioning IMO.
oh my god already Apple! Would ya just make a SMALLER laptop or a larger iPod Touch or both ALREADY! Obviously there has been a BIG ENOUGH market for this since the end of the 12" iBooks and Powerbooks! One size does not fit all needs just as one chromatic Nano doesn't fit all color tastes. As Apple fans, we've been hearing Apple should make a netbook size device or a mini-tablet (look at the Archos 5!) for way too long now. Just do it already Apple...It's really not rocket science.
Why doesn't the iPod Touch come in different screen sizes (that a whole web page fits on) and could still fit in a pocket? (Nokia N810, Archos 5 60G) I wrote this on my MBA which is nice but still too big!
Again with this BS. You find me one Windows or Ubuntu Linux computer that is $300 cheaper than the an equivalent Mac.
Starting a rumour doesn't make it true. The iPhone is no more expensive than any other smartphone on AT&T plan, and the data package is on par with other US carriers.
The US has a 72yo running for President of the US and you're biggest concern is with a 53yo CEO of a company. You act as if he's an old man who can't run the company and assume that no one else has been groomed to take over as CEO.
Or maybe a 40-something spoiled over taxing marxist running for Prez. This is about Apple..let's stay on topic!
oh my god already Apple! Would ya just make a SMALLER laptop or a larger iPod Touch or both ALREADY! Obviously there has been a BIG ENOUGH market for this since the end of the 12" iBooks and Powerbooks! One size does not fit all needs just as one chromatic Nano doesn't fit all color tastes. As Apple fans, we've been hearing Apple should make a netbook size device or a mini-tablet (look at the Archos 5!) for way too long now. Just do it already Apple...It's really not rocket science.
The comparisons between the netbook and the air seem to miss a few things. The current netbooks have about 1/4th the processing power as the Air and some models have about as much storage as I have on my camcorder's SDHC cards. The Atom processors do not have anywhere near the performance as the chip that's in the Air, which is a lower power consuming version of the standard notebook chip, not a chip that's pretending to be a competitor to ARM.
I'm not getting either kind of as I do like to watch DVDs.
"Lower power," perhaps, but still not low enough. I still want all-day usage. As for DVDs, talk about being stuck in 2000. I can throw a DVD in my desktop Mac and have a 700MB Xvid movie file in less than an hour (two-pass encoding; halve that if you're satisifed with single pass) or a higher resolution two-pass H.264 file in less than two hours. Toss five of those movie files on a 4GB thumb drive and you've done away with the power-hungry DVD drive eating up battery life all through the movie. And a darn sight easier to carry around than five DVDs in their keepcases, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
You are arguing that a smaller footprint on the MBA would still mean it could be as useful even with a small screen and keyboard. You might be willing to sacrifice full size keys because you have small hands or don't type much or some other reason, but there are plenty of people who type all day and don't want a half size keys and an 8" display to do important work on.
Is there any reason why heavy typists couldn't just plug in a USB keyboard when they get to work? Nobody works "all day" on the train or the bus or even the nearest Starbucks. The heavy work goes on at either end of the commute, where presumably users could keep USB or even wireless keyboards on their desks. Why lug around a full-size keyboard all the time when you only need it some of the time? The same goes for adding larger, external screens, which every laptop I know of nowadays can use. If the work is really that important or intense, I'd rather plug in a 20" LCD instead of using even a 13" built-in display. Also, heavy typists are more liable to prefer split or otherwise curved ergonomic keyboards with good key feel and travel over the "full size" but straight, limited travel (and lacking real cursor and numeric keypads) keyboards on laptops.
Edit: Apple should leapfrog every other netbook/tablet maker by creating a MagSafe dock that not only charges the battery, but provides additional ports for external screen, USB, Firewire, etc. No need to wrestle with separate cables or align multiple connectors. A single wide MagSafe connector with 50-100 contacts could still be more compact than all those discrete connectors. Just drop it in the dock and let the magnets and contacts do the work. Can't get any simpler than that. Say hello to APC, the Apple Portable Connector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacevator
oh my god already Apple! Would ya just make a SMALLER laptop or a larger iPod Touch or both ALREADY! Obviously there has been a BIG ENOUGH market for this since the end of the 12" iBooks and Powerbooks! One size does not fit all needs just as one chromatic Nano doesn't fit all color tastes. As Apple fans, we've been hearing Apple should make a netbook size device or a mini-tablet (look at the Archos 5!) for way too long now. Just do it already Apple...It's really not rocket science.
Why doesn't the iPod Touch come in different screen sizes (that a whole web page fits on) and could still fit in a pocket? (Nokia N810, Archos 5 60G) I wrote this on my MBA which is nice but still too big!
There are a lot of us here who would dearly love an Apple tablet running OS X. Maybe by next January. Although I may wait for the 2nd gen version built around Moorestown.
Comments
Look at the component make up of AIR and convince me there is anything advanced in that machine beyond the processor packaging. The pricing on AIR is a massive joke.
Dave
Then why don't you convince us that it's a $700 notebook by breaking down the parts and R&D. Since we don't have actual prices on the chip packaging, go ahead and use $284 for the new chip at that speed and package, which is bound to be cheaper than what is in there right now.
I think you should wait until there is something more than analyst speculation before you claim victory. Also Apple doesn't drop prices "like a rock" they just cancel the product.
Oh you must mean how the canceled iPhone 1 before dropping the price.
In this case though I do believe they will cancel the product soon. They will do this to limit their exposure to warranty issues and law suits. It may or may not get replaced with an updated unit.
The funny thing with AiR is that it from all appearnces does have hardware issues worthy of pursuit. IPhone 3G on the other hand is pretty solid hardware wise but people sue over it's performance for no validated reason.
I don't mean to sound like an a$$ either but AIR is a very limited machine and debuted when smaller more capable machines hit the market. It as a computing device certainly has it's niche but that niche isn't big enough to justfy production. It is like the Cube in many ways.
By the way I believe AIR is saveable as a platform. To do that though Apple needs to leap over a few hurdles. One is processor performance, AIR needs to be able to consitantly run it's processor at full speed. The second issue is I/O which has already been exponded upon.
Dave
Ok, then you can't really believe that the HUGE market that wants an ultra-portable laptop, really ever viewed the macbook air as a viable option. Sure a ton of us went out and bought it as we love macs, and we wanted something smaller than the macbook. Heck I bought one, but never sold my Lenovo X61 as it was just smaller and easier to carry around. I would use my macbook air while "couch-surfing" but thats about it. It just falls short in so many areas, the main one being small. That is what the ultraportable market wants. A SMALL laptop.
My macbook air is gone so now is my Lenovo X61.
If Apple comes out with a notebook/netbook. That has a 9 or 10 inch screen, has the Atom processor, or some deviation of, where the ram and hard drive can easily be swapped, and has a user swappable battery, running OS X. I will gladly pay DOUBLE what the other netbooks cost.
You can mark my words, the macbook air will be dead completely in 1 year if Apple continues it in its current form. I am so confident I will give anyone 5 to 1 odds, with a $1,000 minimum on my end.
Its usually Apple that bursts on the scene with this hot new product, but I think they really got blindsided here. As the numbers keep stacking up through the holiday, Im sure Apple will see the mistake they made.
You've hit on some really good points. I've always believed that Apple's R&D 2 years ago should have gone in to exactly that- an utra small portable without the phone. The phone industry is so fickle and all we've heard is complaints of the call quality, etc, etc, etc. Apple could have been leading in this department and instead will be following it. The iPod Touch is cool but a fraction of all that I want. Hopefully one will be coming out this fall and/or at least by MacWorld Jan. If not I may be forced to buy a Sony Vaio TZ and not have the Apple OS. I want something small and full functioned not a cafeteria- sized tray that's impaired.
I think that after SL is released the MBA will move to a cheaper dual core Atom chip and the price will drop below $1000.
The processors in the is only around $284 and $316, while the fastest Atom chips are $70 and $135. Coincidently, the Atom chips are the same respective speeds as the current Air, but the drop in performance would make it incredibly slow. This would be a very costly change and completely alter the market it's aimed at. There is plenty of room for Apple to keep the MBA at the top end of an ultra-lightweight notebook and have a UMPC for a tablet Mac using Atom. They don't have to destroy one to make the other.
The US has a 72yo running for President of the US and you're biggest concern is with a 53yo CEO of a company. You act as if he's an old man who can't run the company and assume that no one else has been groomed to take over as CEO.
That's a F*#k up comparison.
John MacCain looks robust and healthy. His mother is 96 and could run rings around most 60 year olds I've ever met. SJobs on the other hand and sorry to say this- does not. Big difference. He's not looking healthy to say it kindly.
My point is age does not make a difference and is relative and those remarks are age discriminatory.
What does it have to offer besides being a bit slimmer? Nothing really. Oh wait. It is prohibitively expensive. Actually that I AM RICH iPhone application would've been perfect for the MBA.
.
Are you trying to balance a cafeteria tray in your hand or catching light for your solar panel?
Well at least one of the gadget's has a nice looking attachment.
Wonder if it thinks smaller is better?
SSSSSssssssss- luv it!
I've always believed that Apple's R&D 2 years ago should have gone in to exactly that- an utra small portable without the phone. The phone industry is so fickle and all we've heard is complaints of the call quality, etc, etc, etc. Apple could have been leading in this department and instead will be following it. The iPod Touch is cool but a fraction of all that I want. Hopefully one will be coming out this fall and/or at least by MacWorld Jan. If not I may be forced to buy a Sony Vaio TZ and not have the Apple OS. I want something small and full functioned not a cafeteria- sized tray that's impaired.
I guess the Air suffers from being a bleeding edge machine that is 200 days old. It will probably just converge with the MacBook (as MacBooks get thinner) which would be a very cool thing.
But a MacBook Mini would be a better business case for a third laptop. $500 Apple tax is a lot to wear on a laptop. $200 Apple tax is not a lot on a super portable. A mini laptop won't cannibalize laptop / desktop sales (since you still need a real computer) and iPhones would still sell (since they are portable). The market would be business travelers, students, etc.
Also, some workers (programmers and scientists, or graphic designers who are forced to work in a Windows shop) like to take their MacBook in to work, and plug it into work monitor / keyboards . A smaller macbook would make this a lot more viable.
I agree to what most are saying, its a niche market need that Apple play in very well indeed.
Bloody analysts......
Short of the SSD disk drive, what's more advanced in the Air? Don't say the processor, that's an old chip in a different package. The have a smaller motherboard, but that's not more "advanced", rather just a set of choices and trade-offs.
I don't think it should cost $700 though.
You are 100% wrong. It is custom chip made specifically for the MBA.
You are 100% wrong. It is custom chip made specifically for the MBA.
Technically, it's an 'old' processor in a custom package.
The processors in the is only around $284 and $316, while the fastest Atom chips are $70 and $135. Coincidently, the Atom chips are the same respective speeds as the current Air, but the drop in performance would make it incredibly slow. This would be a very costly change and completely alter the market it's aimed at. There is plenty of room for Apple to keep the MBA at the top end of an ultra-lightweight notebook and have a UMPC for a tablet Mac using Atom. They don't have to destroy one to make the other.
If SL improves system performance then overall feel might not be that bad.
The cost savings might be $200. That's nothing to sneeze at. Admittedly they still have a ways to go to get it under $1000.
Dual core atom netbooks will only undercut MBA sales even more. The product needs repositioning IMO.
Why doesn't the iPod Touch come in different screen sizes (that a whole web page fits on) and could still fit in a pocket? (Nokia N810, Archos 5 60G) I wrote this on my MBA which is nice but still too big!
Again with this BS. You find me one Windows or Ubuntu Linux computer that is $300 cheaper than the an equivalent Mac.
Starting a rumour doesn't make it true. The iPhone is no more expensive than any other smartphone on AT&T plan, and the data package is on par with other US carriers.
The US has a 72yo running for President of the US and you're biggest concern is with a 53yo CEO of a company. You act as if he's an old man who can't run the company and assume that no one else has been groomed to take over as CEO.
Or maybe a 40-something spoiled over taxing marxist running for Prez. This is about Apple..let's stay on topic!
oh my god already Apple! Would ya just make a SMALLER laptop or a larger iPod Touch or both ALREADY! Obviously there has been a BIG ENOUGH market for this since the end of the 12" iBooks and Powerbooks! One size does not fit all needs just as one chromatic Nano doesn't fit all color tastes. As Apple fans, we've been hearing Apple should make a netbook size device or a mini-tablet (look at the Archos 5!) for way too long now. Just do it already Apple...It's really not rocket science.
Amen.
We want an ultra-portable not just a portable.
Or maybe a 40-something spoiled over taxing marxist running for Prez. This is about Apple..let's stay on topic!
With an ignorant comment like that, nobody, including John McCain, would take anything you say serious.
The comparisons between the netbook and the air seem to miss a few things. The current netbooks have about 1/4th the processing power as the Air and some models have about as much storage as I have on my camcorder's SDHC cards. The Atom processors do not have anywhere near the performance as the chip that's in the Air, which is a lower power consuming version of the standard notebook chip, not a chip that's pretending to be a competitor to ARM.
I'm not getting either kind of as I do like to watch DVDs.
"Lower power," perhaps, but still not low enough. I still want all-day usage. As for DVDs, talk about being stuck in 2000. I can throw a DVD in my desktop Mac and have a 700MB Xvid movie file in less than an hour (two-pass encoding; halve that if you're satisifed with single pass) or a higher resolution two-pass H.264 file in less than two hours. Toss five of those movie files on a 4GB thumb drive and you've done away with the power-hungry DVD drive eating up battery life all through the movie. And a darn sight easier to carry around than five DVDs in their keepcases, too.
You are arguing that a smaller footprint on the MBA would still mean it could be as useful even with a small screen and keyboard. You might be willing to sacrifice full size keys because you have small hands or don't type much or some other reason, but there are plenty of people who type all day and don't want a half size keys and an 8" display to do important work on.
Is there any reason why heavy typists couldn't just plug in a USB keyboard when they get to work? Nobody works "all day" on the train or the bus or even the nearest Starbucks. The heavy work goes on at either end of the commute, where presumably users could keep USB or even wireless keyboards on their desks. Why lug around a full-size keyboard all the time when you only need it some of the time? The same goes for adding larger, external screens, which every laptop I know of nowadays can use. If the work is really that important or intense, I'd rather plug in a 20" LCD instead of using even a 13" built-in display. Also, heavy typists are more liable to prefer split or otherwise curved ergonomic keyboards with good key feel and travel over the "full size" but straight, limited travel (and lacking real cursor and numeric keypads) keyboards on laptops.
Edit: Apple should leapfrog every other netbook/tablet maker by creating a MagSafe dock that not only charges the battery, but provides additional ports for external screen, USB, Firewire, etc. No need to wrestle with separate cables or align multiple connectors. A single wide MagSafe connector with 50-100 contacts could still be more compact than all those discrete connectors. Just drop it in the dock and let the magnets and contacts do the work. Can't get any simpler than that. Say hello to APC, the Apple Portable Connector.
oh my god already Apple! Would ya just make a SMALLER laptop or a larger iPod Touch or both ALREADY! Obviously there has been a BIG ENOUGH market for this since the end of the 12" iBooks and Powerbooks! One size does not fit all needs just as one chromatic Nano doesn't fit all color tastes. As Apple fans, we've been hearing Apple should make a netbook size device or a mini-tablet (look at the Archos 5!) for way too long now. Just do it already Apple...It's really not rocket science.
Why doesn't the iPod Touch come in different screen sizes (that a whole web page fits on) and could still fit in a pocket? (Nokia N810, Archos 5 60G) I wrote this on my MBA which is nice but still too big!
There are a lot of us here who would dearly love an Apple tablet running OS X. Maybe by next January. Although I may wait for the 2nd gen version built around Moorestown.