New MacBook case leaks question FireWire's future

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  • Reply 181 of 321
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    You keep talking about two separate chips below but niether the iPhone nor the Touch currently support that. Atleast not from what I've seen. Now Apple might go with a stacked die solution but I suspect that is a bit expensive.



    hey do use two chips for both the Touch and the iPhone. IT doens't take up much room and it reduces the costs considerably than trying to force that same capacity into a chip for considerably more cost. It's realy the only option for a device as large as the Touch and iPhone (despite being considerably smaller than its alternatives).
    There are many more site than iFixit that can verify this dual-Flash chip aggregation.



    edit: More proof of Apple using dual Flash storage to reduce costs....
  • Reply 182 of 321
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pooped View Post


    yes it will, because it is not about weight or cubic volume, it's about two-dimensional space. how big it LOOKS when unfolded. never mind thin-ness, curves or weight.

    also on stage you'd want it to be inconspicuous (black and small) and those 2 extra inches matter a lot.. they matter more that the added extra empty space on the side of the macBook by not adding FW.

    and on a cramped stage or DJ table, 13" is way easier to fit in without it extending over the edges of the table/piano/whatever.

    and then the laptop is the one thing that you wouldn't throw in the back of the truck with the rest of the gear, it's the thing you carry with you 24/7 next to your toothbrush, a family pack of condoms and some clean underwear. also a 15" wouldn't fit in a standard tool case (or my backpack).



    I will also ignore your rudeness and simply point out (again) your weak and irrational arguments. I've owned the MB for more than 24 months and have had the MBP at the same time too, so I base my perceptions of their relative sizes on actual use. That picture posted a page back is pretty damning evidence that those who perceive the MB to be much smaller are simply deceived and aren't basing their perceptions on measurable reality. You can perceive anything that you want, but the FACT remains that the dimensions are not too wide apart, and this is in "two-dimensional space," as shown by the picture.



    Also, show me a DJ table, which can easily hold a MB but NOT a MBP. Otherwise, your arguments are irrational and lack any evidence other than your subjective perception.



    Finally, just because your musicians use the MB, it is not proof that all or even most musicians use it over the MBP.
  • Reply 183 of 321
    Another nice change in the new MacBooks/Pros I just noticed: two visible screws on the sides and two hidden in the back.



    There used to be two on either side of the MacBook (so four visible screws in total, though weren't there some smaller screws in the back) and four on either side of the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros (totaling eight visible screws, though I think there were some smaller screws in the back as well).



    That's going to look pretty slick. And all (but the Air) will have easily removable hard drives and RAM as well.
  • Reply 184 of 321
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by applebook View Post


    That picture posted a page back is pretty damning evidence that those who perceive the MB to be much smaller are simply deceived and aren't basing their perceptions on measurable reality. You can perceive anything that you want, but the FACT remains that the dimensions are not too wide apart, and this is in "two-dimensional space," as shown by the picture.



    And not only that, the picture you used compared the MacBook Pro to a black MacBook, which even he admitted would give it a smaller appearance. A MBP next to a white MacBook would have been even more damning.
  • Reply 185 of 321
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zinfella View Post


    That shouldn't be too hard as it's only a matter of hours now.......



    But we both know there will be plenty of posters here who will bitch out Apple for not giving them enough warning about upcoming product changes.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    That's going to look pretty slick. And all (but the Air) will have easily removable hard drives and RAM as well.



    The screws going to the bottom of the MB/MBP cases will be aesthetically pleasing, but I hope it doesn't' weaken the structure with the weighting pulling down instead of on the sides. Also, I hope they redesign the MBA to have the battery bay accessible underneath with an option to ad up to at least 4GB of RAM).
  • Reply 186 of 321
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The screws going to the bottom of the MB/MBP cases will be aesthetically pleasing, but I hope it doesn't' weaken the structure with the weighting pulling down instead of on the sides. Also, I hope they redesign the MBA to have the battery bay accessible underneath with an option to add up to at least 4GB of RAM).



    I doubt an Air w/ replaceable battery is coming anytime soon (since the average computer user rarely ever replaces the stock battery), but perhaps EU legislation will require a change.



    Considering the Air's construction being noted by many reviewers as noticeably more durable, it seems these new MacBooks/Pros based off that design (to a degree) will only gain durability.
  • Reply 187 of 321
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    — What you list as the FW800 looks more like a Mini-DVI port in that image. Even the associated image for the port matches the Mini-DVI port image on my MacBook.

    — What is being considered the MagSafe connector looks larger than the current MagSafe connector.

    — All other Mac EC/34 slots use an oblong port hole, but this is rectangle. Why the aestethically unpleasing change, especially when ExpressCards are rounded at the edges?

    — I don't see the reason to have a DL-DVI-I and a Mini-DI on the same machine.

    — What is that perfectly round hole next to the taped "DL-DVI-I" port? An oddly side-mounted IR receiver makes no sense. Could be an eject button for what ever does fit into the taped over port?





    I'm lost on how this would cool the system. Any heat from running mutliple monitors would result from the CPU and GPU, not the external port.







    This oddly rectangle port on these MB mockups are large enough to carry all the necessary data to a docking station. I would give this open a solid 1% of actually occurring as docking stations among retail or corporate consumers, but it's certainly a best non-Sci-Fi I've read.



    PS: But that was before notebooks were the primary sale target for PCs. If Apple does make a dock connector then I think we can assume that they will vying for the corporate environment with their PCs, but I still stay that they will need an entirely new line of non-Mac PCs to make it work.



    The inner casing locale of the current graphics card is crammed. The system already runs hot and these photos show a slimmer casing. Graphics cards aren't runner cooler, and the conductive heat transfer of the system with lower volume of air between the chipset and it's surroundings only increases the heat build up.



    As I stated before, I don't believe these are final designs, but a design idea stamped out and tested, then tossed.
  • Reply 188 of 321
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    As I stated before, I don't believe these are final designs, but a design idea stamped out and tested, then tossed.



    And I'm sure praying that is the case.
  • Reply 189 of 321
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    OK.... remove features that many entry-level users don't touch. Fine... just so long as it costs less too!



    Otherwise, give us our camcorder connection!
  • Reply 190 of 321
    My two cents on the new MBP (alleged specs)...



    Been waiting forever for decent graphic performance, so if the GPU is significantly better than my Mid-2007 MBP, I'll upgrade. I drive a 30" monitor from the MBP, but dont mind buying/using an adapter cable, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT REDUCE THE QUALITY. This should be a digital-to-digital solution, so probably not a problem.



    As for FW, I currently have the following hooked up to my ports:

    -FW800 - Lexar UDMA CompactFlash reader (FW800 only), WeibeTech External 1TB (has FW800, USB2 and eSATA connectors), OWC portable (has FW800 and USB 2.0) connectors, 2 x older LaCie drives (have FW800 only)

    -FW400 - Epson Scanner (has FW400 and USB 2.0 connectors), LaCie external DL-DVD burner (has FW400 only)



    So if I was stuck with only one FW800 port, I could daisy chain my drives off the one port if required, or maybe find a FW800 hub (Belkin supposedly makes one, but noone has in stock)



    As for the eSATA port, my RAID and main backup drives are on a PortMultiplied eSATA tower connected with a Sonnet Dual eSATA ExpressCard, so a single eSATA port is not much use to me.



    For USB, I've got 7 USB devices I use regularly (HPLaserJet, EpsonInkJet, FujitsuScanner, Keyboard, Trackball, iPhone, SDCardReader) which max out my ports and powered hub. Wonder how much more one can throw at USB before it bogs down...



    But like I said, give me some serious GPU power (and maybe 8GB of RAM?!) and I'll be happy....
  • Reply 191 of 321
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    It is about time Apple created a new case for their laptops. USB is that standard for consumer video camera's so it is no surprise that firewire would be absent from the Macbook.



    I'm jealous now and after only having my MacBook for a little less than a year I want this new one already. Hopefully and wishfully Apple will intro a econo version of around $699 to blow away the competition and take some more market share from the WinTel group.



    Go Apple!
  • Reply 192 of 321
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    I'm jealous now and after only having my MacBook for a little less than a year I want this new one already.



    Don't be. Let others upgrade and wait for Nehalem this time next year



    The hardware differences will be much bigger. By then, SSD drives will be faster, better, bigger, and much cheaper. Good MLC drives by Intel will probably be well under $200 by then.



    This is my late 2009 dream:



    Nehalem MacBook Pro

    1650x XXX resolution 15" screen

    Something equivalent to the 9650M GT

    Blu-Ray

    128Gb or 200Gb SSD (SLC or good MLC version)

    8Gb DDR3 RAM

    $1899 educational price (?)



    Now THAT will be a serious upgrade for current Core 2 MBP owners
  • Reply 193 of 321
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    It is about time Apple created a new case for their laptops. USB is that standard for consumer video camera's so it is no surprise that firewire would be absent from the Macbook.



    I'm sure the MBPs will still have FW as it's still an industry standard among professionals.



    Quote:

    'm jealous now and after only having my MacBook for a little less than a year I want this new one already.



    Since being registered here since May 2006 you should be aware of the ~3 year update cycle between case changes and the ~7 month revision cycle between Macs. What is lesser known is that the longer they prolong an update the more likely major revisions will be coming. I'm sure you can get a pretty penny for it on eBay or Craig's List if you post it immediately.



    Quote:

    Hopefully and wishfully Apple will intro a econo version of around $699 to blow away the competition and take some more market share from the WinTel group.



    Analusts started with with a $1000 Mac notebook, which then led to a $900 Mac, which then led to an $800 Mac, and now I am reading a $700 Mac. From a business perspective, this is lower than the average selling price of the average non-Mac PC so I'm certain this won't happen. I do think Apple will offer a simpler MacBook for $999 (and perhaps as low as $899), but you can't play the commodity PC game and expect to maintain profits without cutting costs elsewhere.



    My guess is that the new ower-end chipsets and processors will run OS X Leopard just fine without requiring Apple to resort to adding excessive traillware to their system. for those that haven't noticed, there isn't a single, defualt OS X application that will expire in x-many days. Both the Office for Mac Test Drive and iWork Trial have been removed from the installation disc. The only app thzt might qualify is QuickTime, but it now allow you to do full screen in Leopard and you are under no obligation to by the Pro version. Try finding something similar on a typical PC.
  • Reply 194 of 321
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,336moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjteix View Post


    IMO, mysterious port = Mini Displayport.



    Very interesting reference to mini-displayport.



    The date for production says 10/2008. Good find.



    http://www.longwell.com/download/Ann...ort%202005.pdf



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjteix View Post


    Firewire. There is still a possibility of 1394c: FW800 on CAT-5 cable (sharing the RJ45 with Ethernet).



    Since a lot of people are connected wirelessly to Internet, the Ethernet port is less required.

    Still, implementing 1394c on the RJ45 port would allow users than need fast networking to have GbE and people would need faster data transfers to have FW800.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer


    That is absolutely brain dead. You aren't seeing wired gigabit ethernet going anywhere.



    It's not that ethernet is replaced by firewire, they share the same port with 1394c. Gigabit Ethernet is 1000 Mbps, FW800 is just 800 Mbps.



    "Coming up, 1394 and Ethernet will be able to reside on the same device, so both data including audio and video can run over 1394 and Ethernet along the same CAT-5 cable."



    http://gadgets.consumerelectronicsne...e.jsp?id=37967



    I would suspect that this being the case, the firewire on the MBP is the higher speed 3200 Mbps or maybe just an extra port to allow easier connection with ethernet and firewire simultaneously.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer


    gives the impression the DVI-I port is the far-left point, down below the keyboard to give space for more airflow and thus a cooler system.



    Except that the port you label firewire has a display symbol on it. The one you label DVI-I IMO is the magsafe but it looks like a very stupid place to put it - it's a stupid place to put any cable really because people who rest their hands at the side of their machine are going to knock against it. The magsafe on the MBP could be out of shot to the right but judging by the alignment with the keyboard, they may have moved it to the front. This is after all where the battery will be anyway. Perhaps the firewire 800 made them rethink their positioning.
  • Reply 195 of 321
    I think Wobegon is right on, here.



    +++ If Apple is going to drop the price, judicious cost-cutting can help the bottom line when you're selling millions of units.



    -Though I don't know what the pre-sale TCO of Apple implementing a fw400 port is, so I can't spec. on the savings.
  • Reply 196 of 321
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 300member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Mini-DVI makes the Mac look bad in a professional context. You need a special adapter to connect to projector and PC users just plug right in. As for Firewire, it was a nice way to connect a Time Machine disk, but USB will do.



    1394a is 30% faster than USB2. This move would be a functional slow-down.



    USB is for mice. FireWire is for men.
  • Reply 197 of 321
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    But then it's not Apple's fault that after years of promoting FireWire, none of the other big PC companies and camera companies jumped on board. If Apple is phasing out FireWire, it's just a sad but understandable result of windows based PC's not evolving to include it when they could have.



    Since Apple charged a licensing fee for Firewire and Intel didn't charge one for USB, then I think it is very much Apple's fault.
  • Reply 198 of 321
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Very interesting reference to mini-displayport.



    The date for production says 10/2008. Good find.



    http://www.longwell.com/download/Ann...ort%202005.pdf




    So is this "Mini DisplayPort" an industry standard, or is it yet another result of Apple's obsession with proprietary display connectors?
  • Reply 199 of 321
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    The beauty of these photos includes the fact no one is even questioning whether this is a prototype that was scrapped for another design.



    There are no timestamp/manufacturering stamp dates on the photos to indicate how far in the production cycle these test cases reside.



    You will not see Gigabit Ethernet [wired] being dropped. Anyone thinking of using these in enterprises for development platforms while not needing more Final Cut Pro features in the Macbook Pro aren't going to convince their clients to switch to wireless networks for their in-house development.



    DisplayPort offering both Video and Audio makes sense to have moving foward.



    Unless Nvidia or AMD are upgrading their Laptop line of cards, by Oct 14, we are seeing dedicated DVI-I port being on the system for the MacBook Pro.



    Moving the MacBook Pro to have a combo FW3200/800 and dropping FW 400, but offering a third party add-on to use FW400 makes sense.



    This image:



    [CENTER][/CENTER]



    gives the impression the DVI-I port is the far-left point, down below the keyboard to give space for more airflow and thus a cooler system.



    [CENTER][/CENTER]



    The port you marked Firewire doesn't have the Firewire symbol on it, it has the display port symbol on it, unless my eyes are failing me.
  • Reply 200 of 321
    pbpb Posts: 4,255member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by applebook View Post


    Regarding the size differences between the MB and the MBP to musicians, I guess the issue is paranoia, not reality.



    The fact remains that the MBP is...what...10% larger? Probably not even, but then again, if you desperately want to believe something, then you can.



    The size difference issue is maybe paranoia, since the difference in volume between the two is 10.75% (very accurate estimation applebook! ) for just 8% more mass for the MBP, but the difference in price is not:



    entry level MB: 1000 euros

    entry level MBP: 1800 euros



    This is 80% more!
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