Since Apple Support is now deleting threads on the topic, it's clear that a huge proportion of Mac users are expressing displeasure at the removal of Firewire and there will be implications of this in the sales numbers of the new laptops.
This is the kind of ham-fisted nonsense that Apple could have easily prevented.
• If Firewire is done as a mass consumer interface, just say so.
• If the interface was left off until the new 3200 standard is ready, just say so.
• If it will remain on all desktops and just high end laptops, just say so.
• If a USB version of Target Disk mode is in development, just say so.
The guessing game is going to hurt more than anything.
Apple just basically killed the consumer Firewire peripherals market.
If they had replaced Firewire's usefulness with USB3, then that would be one thing.
But to switch the most useful interface with a lesser quality one - and then ask for a premium price - is ridiculous.
is the difference even noticeable ? and if it is, is it really worth the extra ?
Don't know about noticeable difference, but the fact that the price difference between the 2 processors to a company buying in Apple's volume is only $20, and the fact the backlit keyboard can't be more than $15 extra, HD difference not more than $10, should be enough to anyone not drinking the koolaid to deter them from not falling into this trap.
Sure Apple should be making money, but $300 on $45 worth of upgrades? C'mon $150 would have been fine, Apple could have made a 200+% profit on these 3 little bumps, but $300 is pretty much asinine.
Don't know about noticeable difference, but the fact that the price difference between the 2 processors to a company buying in Apple's volume is only $20, and the fact the backlit keyboard can't be more than $15 extra, HD difference not more than $10, should be enough to anyone not drinking the koolaid to deter them from not falling into this trap.
Sure Apple should be making money, but $300 on $45 worth of upgrades? C'mon $150 would have been fine, Apple could have made a 200+% profit on these 3 little bumps, but $300 is pretty much asinine.
Apple charged more for the black Macbook simply because it was black and people bought them.
The guessing game is going to hurt more than anything.
Apple just basically killed the consumer Firewire peripherals market.
I don't think it's a guess anymore. Apple has removed Firewire from their just released computer. The Macbook was their top selling computer. Firewire was their technology. Firewire has been dumped by Apple.
I want to know how many of you use Macbook as the only Mac in the household?
Apple's action is very logical - Macbook's market is totally different from MBP. MBP is likely to be the primary (or only) Mac in the house, so it gets all the goodies and more expensive. On the other hand, MB is a secondary laptop. Most likely you have another Mac in the house, which you can use to do the heavy duty work (like editing movies), or at least use that to get the DV tape to your mac.
So, my question is very simple - to all the existing Macbook owners, do you have another Mac in the household?
I don't think it's a guess anymore. Apple has removed Firewire from their just released computer. The Macbook was their top selling computer. Firewire was their technology. Firewire has been dumped by Apple.
Yes. It would have helped though, if some media genius had asked if this was the case during yesterday's Q&A session.
By the way, the different between Firewire vs USB is almost the same as SCSI vs IDE.
Firewire has intelligence on the device, thus faster but more expensive than USB2. SCSI has intelligence on the device, thus faster but more expensive.
When SCSI was eliminated, there was also an outcry. One of the reason people love SCSI was exactly the same - ability to boot from external drive, and ability to run Powerbook as an external SCSI drive (remember Powerbook 100? the first of this kind). When Apple switched to IDE, it wasn't possible to boot from external USB drive. Firewire was the answer to that.
But as I can remember, the outcry against eliminating SCSI was as loud as (if not louder) today.
Well, life goes on. Apple moves on. technologies move on. Not all superior technologies survive.
And by the way, I still prefer SCSI. Much much much faster.... but 99% of the population don't care.
Personally, I would rather complain about the lack of USB ports (only 2?) than the lack of 1394.
They should have kept at least 4 pin firewire on the macbooks. If anything needed to go it was ethernet, they've been selling a dongle for over year because "notebook users use wireless", that's what they did with the macbook air. They could have kept firewire and just chucked their usb to ethernet dongle in the box.
I've got 4 non-professional firewire devices on my desk right now and wanted the new macbook. Instead it looks like I might cave and buy the white one, which more than pisses me off.
Maybe they'll do like they did with the second revision macbook pro and add it back if everyone complains enough.
I don't think it's a guess anymore. Apple has removed Firewire from their just released computer. The Macbook was their top selling computer. Firewire was their technology. Firewire has been dumped by Apple.
Well, it's not Apple that is killing Firewire. All the wire protocols are going to fade away quickly. Wire will be replaced by waves. The Time capsule is the real future. In two years, everybody will have to switch to IPv6. Your desktop computer, your laptop, your camcorder, your iPod and your time capsule will have their own IP address. You will have a wireless connexion available almost everywhere: no need for flash memories anymore, no need for Blueray disks or mobile storage devices like Firewire-HD : your camcorder will be in direct connexion to your personal Timecapsule via IPv6 and a wireless 3/4G connexion. You will be able to upload/download data in real-time from/to home, even if you are 10 000 miles away.
Back at home, you'll maybe plug your Timecapsule to a Gb Ethernet router, if the WiFi 802.11n+++ throughput does not meet your needs...
I writing this on my Gateway 14.1 inch wide-screen that I bought, new, at BB in March 2007 for $399. I wanted a MacBook, but couldn't justify the $1499 price. It's been a good unit, does everything that it is required to do for my personal and business applications and use, plus my middle school child uses it for all school related assignments. It cost $399.
So, when news of a sub-$900 MacBook began to circulate, I thought, "okay, I'll buy one". Yes, I was disappointed to read the released pricing schedule, $1,000 for the old Mac, $1,300 to $1,600 for the newest unit. Can't blame Apple, as the "rumored prices" were from others, and the new units may indeed be worth the asking prices. I cannot technically evaluate the units, but as a consumer, this $399 laptop doesn't need to be replaced as I was inclined to do just 48 hours ago. Will the prices drop as with the iPhone??
I ordered one of the new 13" Macbooks last night only to cancel a few minutes later: no firewire? Seriously? I'm on my second 12" g4 powerbook, and due to a coffee mishap this week, will be looking for my 3rd. The rep at a local Apple Store told me to hold out; something better might be on the way. I was disappointed with the Air and now this...
Why not build a 13" Macbook Pro? Space? Heat? Scrap the internal optical drive and make it work!
Well, it's not Apple that is killing Firewire. All the wire protocols are going to fade away quickly. Wire will be replaced by waves. The Time capsule is the real future. In two years, everybody will have to switch to IPv6. Your desktop computer, your laptop, your camcorder, your iPod and your time capsule will have their own IP address. You will have a wireless connexion available almost everywhere: no need for flash memories anymore, no need for Blueray disks or mobile storage devices like Firewire-HD : your camcorder will be in direct connexion to your personal Timecapsule via IPv6 and a wireless 3/4G connexion. You will be able to upload/download data in real-time from/to home, even if you are 10 000 miles away.
Back at home, you'll maybe plug your Timecapsule to a Gb Ethernet router, if the WiFi 802.11n+++ throughput does not meet your needs...
Well, it's not Apple that is killing Firewire. All the wire protocols are going to fade away quickly. Wire will be replaced by waves.
True, but that's 5 to 10 years away. If firewire 800 is good enough for the Macbook Pro line it's good enough for the Macbook line. Either include Firewire in both lines, or make a 13" Macbook Pro.
Comments
Interesting. You can probably start a new thread with this if you can add USB performance results under Windows too.
How are you going to install and use NetBSD? Through VMware maybe?
I have meanwhile edited my post and added some consideration on the file systems, that may corrupt any attempt to do meaningful measurements.
As for the installation: http://wiki.netbsd.se/How_to_install...ook_w/core2duo
And I'm planning some work to improve support of the new hardware in the current version of NetBSD if applicable.
That's a joke right?
My five year old iBook just became a better video editing option than the latest Macbook.
This is the kind of ham-fisted nonsense that Apple could have easily prevented.
• If Firewire is done as a mass consumer interface, just say so.
• If the interface was left off until the new 3200 standard is ready, just say so.
• If it will remain on all desktops and just high end laptops, just say so.
• If a USB version of Target Disk mode is in development, just say so.
The guessing game is going to hurt more than anything.
Apple just basically killed the consumer Firewire peripherals market.
If they had replaced Firewire's usefulness with USB3, then that would be one thing.
But to switch the most useful interface with a lesser quality one - and then ask for a premium price - is ridiculous.
2.0 vs 2.4 GHz
is the difference even noticeable ? and if it is, is it really worth the extra ?
Don't know about noticeable difference, but the fact that the price difference between the 2 processors to a company buying in Apple's volume is only $20, and the fact the backlit keyboard can't be more than $15 extra, HD difference not more than $10, should be enough to anyone not drinking the koolaid to deter them from not falling into this trap.
Sure Apple should be making money, but $300 on $45 worth of upgrades? C'mon $150 would have been fine, Apple could have made a 200+% profit on these 3 little bumps, but $300 is pretty much asinine.
This is the kind of ham-fisted nonsense that Apple could have easily prevented.
? If Firewire is done as a mass consumer interface, just say so.
? If the interface was left off until the new 3200 standard is ready, just say so.
? If it will remain on all desktops and just high end laptops, just say so.
? If a USB version of Target Disk mode is in development, just say so.
The guessing game is going to hurt more than anything.
Apple just basically killed the consumer Firewire peripherals market.
I can agree Apples silence in such cases can be counterproductive and frustrating.
If they had replaced Firewire's usefulness with USB3, then that would be one thing.
But to switch the most useful interface with a lesser quality one - and then ask for a premium price - is ridiculous.
The expensive CPU and chipset is what accounts for most of the price of the MacBook.
Don't know about noticeable difference, but the fact that the price difference between the 2 processors to a company buying in Apple's volume is only $20, and the fact the backlit keyboard can't be more than $15 extra, HD difference not more than $10, should be enough to anyone not drinking the koolaid to deter them from not falling into this trap.
Sure Apple should be making money, but $300 on $45 worth of upgrades? C'mon $150 would have been fine, Apple could have made a 200+% profit on these 3 little bumps, but $300 is pretty much asinine.
Apple charged more for the black Macbook simply because it was black and people bought them.
The guessing game is going to hurt more than anything.
Apple just basically killed the consumer Firewire peripherals market.
I don't think it's a guess anymore. Apple has removed Firewire from their just released computer. The Macbook was their top selling computer. Firewire was their technology. Firewire has been dumped by Apple.
Apple's action is very logical - Macbook's market is totally different from MBP. MBP is likely to be the primary (or only) Mac in the house, so it gets all the goodies and more expensive. On the other hand, MB is a secondary laptop. Most likely you have another Mac in the house, which you can use to do the heavy duty work (like editing movies), or at least use that to get the DV tape to your mac.
So, my question is very simple - to all the existing Macbook owners, do you have another Mac in the household?
I don't think it's a guess anymore. Apple has removed Firewire from their just released computer. The Macbook was their top selling computer. Firewire was their technology. Firewire has been dumped by Apple.
Yes. It would have helped though, if some media genius had asked if this was the case during yesterday's Q&A session.
Firewire has intelligence on the device, thus faster but more expensive than USB2. SCSI has intelligence on the device, thus faster but more expensive.
When SCSI was eliminated, there was also an outcry. One of the reason people love SCSI was exactly the same - ability to boot from external drive, and ability to run Powerbook as an external SCSI drive (remember Powerbook 100? the first of this kind). When Apple switched to IDE, it wasn't possible to boot from external USB drive. Firewire was the answer to that.
But as I can remember, the outcry against eliminating SCSI was as loud as (if not louder) today.
Well, life goes on. Apple moves on. technologies move on. Not all superior technologies survive.
And by the way, I still prefer SCSI. Much much much faster.... but 99% of the population don't care.
Personally, I would rather complain about the lack of USB ports (only 2?) than the lack of 1394.
I've got 4 non-professional firewire devices on my desk right now and wanted the new macbook. Instead it looks like I might cave and buy the white one, which more than pisses me off.
Maybe they'll do like they did with the second revision macbook pro and add it back if everyone complains enough.
SCSI was so frustrating I think I've repressed most of my memories of ever using that standard.
Having to put peripherals in a certain order, huge connectors that wouldn't connect...etc.
Firewire has been a dream by comparison.
I don't think it's a guess anymore. Apple has removed Firewire from their just released computer. The Macbook was their top selling computer. Firewire was their technology. Firewire has been dumped by Apple.
Well, it's not Apple that is killing Firewire. All the wire protocols are going to fade away quickly. Wire will be replaced by waves. The Time capsule is the real future. In two years, everybody will have to switch to IPv6. Your desktop computer, your laptop, your camcorder, your iPod and your time capsule will have their own IP address. You will have a wireless connexion available almost everywhere: no need for flash memories anymore, no need for Blueray disks or mobile storage devices like Firewire-HD : your camcorder will be in direct connexion to your personal Timecapsule via IPv6 and a wireless 3/4G connexion. You will be able to upload/download data in real-time from/to home, even if you are 10 000 miles away.
Back at home, you'll maybe plug your Timecapsule to a Gb Ethernet router, if the WiFi 802.11n+++ throughput does not meet your needs...
I writing this on my Gateway 14.1 inch wide-screen that I bought, new, at BB in March 2007 for $399. I wanted a MacBook, but couldn't justify the $1499 price. It's been a good unit, does everything that it is required to do for my personal and business applications and use, plus my middle school child uses it for all school related assignments. It cost $399.
So, when news of a sub-$900 MacBook began to circulate, I thought, "okay, I'll buy one". Yes, I was disappointed to read the released pricing schedule, $1,000 for the old Mac, $1,300 to $1,600 for the newest unit. Can't blame Apple, as the "rumored prices" were from others, and the new units may indeed be worth the asking prices. I cannot technically evaluate the units, but as a consumer, this $399 laptop doesn't need to be replaced as I was inclined to do just 48 hours ago. Will the prices drop as with the iPhone??
Regards,
Why not build a 13" Macbook Pro? Space? Heat? Scrap the internal optical drive and make it work!
j
Well, it's not Apple that is killing Firewire. All the wire protocols are going to fade away quickly. Wire will be replaced by waves. The Time capsule is the real future. In two years, everybody will have to switch to IPv6. Your desktop computer, your laptop, your camcorder, your iPod and your time capsule will have their own IP address. You will have a wireless connexion available almost everywhere: no need for flash memories anymore, no need for Blueray disks or mobile storage devices like Firewire-HD : your camcorder will be in direct connexion to your personal Timecapsule via IPv6 and a wireless 3/4G connexion. You will be able to upload/download data in real-time from/to home, even if you are 10 000 miles away.
Back at home, you'll maybe plug your Timecapsule to a Gb Ethernet router, if the WiFi 802.11n+++ throughput does not meet your needs...
So why not remove Ethernet?
Well, it's not Apple that is killing Firewire. All the wire protocols are going to fade away quickly. Wire will be replaced by waves.
True, but that's 5 to 10 years away. If firewire 800 is good enough for the Macbook Pro line it's good enough for the Macbook line. Either include Firewire in both lines, or make a 13" Macbook Pro.
j
Best form of protest (besides contacting Apple directly) is NOT TO BUY ONE.
Leave 'em on the shelf until such times as Apple see the light and 'revise' with FireWire.
Such a farce.