Are There Any Redeaming Qualities for Windows?

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  • Reply 21 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    But on a Mac, at least the one I have, that doesn't work. If you push the up arrow you start at the bottom of the menu, if you push the down arrow you start at the top of the menu. But if you hit the wrong arrow, you're trapped at the wrong end of the menu and have to scroll through all of the choices.



    I just prefer to use the quicker method of pressing a sequence of letter keys (based on the name of the desired item) while the menu is open to jump right to the selection you want.
  • Reply 22 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    No. Overall, having enter activate file renaming mode is more of a time saver. When opening files, the likelihood is that you are going to open the file and then work on it, not go back and open more files. Therefore the extra time required to press two keys (command-o) rather than one is negligible.



    However, if you are going to rename more that one file, having a single key activate the renaming mode is a real time saver. Highlight file, return, rename, return, arrow key, return, rename, return, arrow key... etc. etc. The sequence is smoother and faster than if a two-key combo was required to activate file renaming.



    But Windows also has a single key for renaming the selected file (F2). Why doesn't OS X have a single key for opening it? There are plenty of keys on the keyboard, it doesn't have to be one or the other.



    I guess this is just a case of what is easiest being what you know best.
  • Reply 23 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    File renaming is handled much more intelligently in Windows.



    Both Windows and OS X have limitations on file names in terms of length and allowable characters. OS X has the advantage that there is only one illegal character, the colon. In Windows there are nine.



    Anyway, in Windows, when renaming a file, Windows will cease to enter characters once the character limit is reached. If you try to enter any of the nine characters that are illegal, a pop up appears listing non-allowed characters.



    What happens in OS X is a perfect example of lazy, sloppy programming. It will also stop adding characters once the character limit is reached (pretty sure this is new in Leopard), but it will allow you to type colons. When you hit return, a message like this pops up:







    This is not as helpful as it should be. It should tell you exactly what is wrong with the file name (or, indeed, simply not have allowed you to type the illegal character in the first place).



    To make matters even worse, once you've clicked on "OK" on that dialogue box, the file name is reverted back to what you had before. This is extremely annoying if you have made extensive changes to the filename. What should happen instead is that the filename remains highlighted and in its illegal state, so that you can easily remove/change illegal characters without having to start all over again.



    I agree with you that this is an easy fix and should be better. But like you pointed out Windows has 9 illegal chars. I will give your point as a tie between leopard and winblows.



    So far:



    Windows: gaming, file naming (contestable)

    Leopard: everything else
  • Reply 24 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Windows Explorer can be used to write to FTP servers. Finder still doesn't do this. In OS X you have to use the command line or a third-party program.



    Disagree. Leopard renders FTP obsolete with all of its networking features. Your problem is that you are trying to use leopard just like you use windows.



    As a matter of fact in every regard dealing with networking I would say Leopard is much much superior than Windows.
  • Reply 25 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Aaaah, the thing I hate the most about OS X (Windows does it properly):



    Selecting list items using keyboard shift-arrow key shortcut.



    Using iTunes as an example: In an iTunes playlist, multiple tracks can be selected by clicking on a track, then holding down the shift key whilst pressing the up/down arrow keys.



    Pressing the down arrow key always extends the selection downwards, whilst pressing the up arrow key always extends the selection upwards. This means that it is impossible to contract your selection, you can only make it bigger.



    I find this highly annoying and think that the selection process should work like selection of text in applications such as TextEdit. This would make the interface more consistent and more intuitive. The function of the up/down arrow keys should depend on the direction in which the selection was originally extended.



    For example, imagine wanting to make a selection starting at a particular song and extending downwards: if you overshoot your intended selection, you should be able to contract the selection by pressing the up arrow key. Correspondingly, if your original selection was upwards, pressing the down arrow key should then contract the selection.



    If you don't understand WTH I'm talking about, just open text edit, copy and paste this post, click somewhere in the middle, press and hold shift, then play with the up/down arrow keys and see what happens. Now go to iTunes or Finder in list view, click on a song/file, press and hold shift and play with the up/down arrow keys. Which behaviour is more intuitive?



    I will test this later as I am away from my mac right now, but I suspect you are correct. The keyboard file select process in leopard seems cumbersome.
  • Reply 26 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    I use all the modern operating systems, and I've found them to be pretty much the same.



    Wrong in so many levels it is not even funny and not worth spending the time to read the rest of your post, next...
  • Reply 27 of 110
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Disagree. Leopard renders FTP obsolete with all of its networking features.



    Leopard renders FTP transfers obsolete? Er... No, Leopard does not render the only way to upload files to my ISP-provided webspace obsolete.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Your problem is that you are trying to use leopard just like you use windows.



    No, try again. It is indeed common for people to try and make OS X work like Windows or visa versa. But what that means is when Windows and OS X simply achieve the same ends via different means, so trying to use one OS's means on the other results in a cumbersome solution. The point here is that OS X has no built-in means to transfer files over FTP with the GUI. Windows does. Therefore Windows does GUI FTP transfers better than OS X.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    As a matter of fact in every regard dealing with networking I would say Leopard is much much superior than Windows.



    Sure, in other ways, OS X networking has been superior to Windows for ages.
  • Reply 28 of 110
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Leopard renders FTP transfers obsolete? Er... No, Leopard does not render the only way to upload files to my ISP-provided webspace obsolete.







    No, try again. It is indeed common for people to try and make OS X work like Windows or visa versa. But what that means is when Windows and OS X simply achieve the same ends via different means, so trying to use one OS's means on the other results in a cumbersome solution. The point here is that OS X has no built-in means to transfer files over FTP with the GUI. Windows does. Therefore Windows does GUI FTP transfers better than OS X.



    Ok, I will give you that one. I never had that problem myself. But I can see that when using Leopard to talk to crappy shitty interfaces designed 15 years ago you may find yourself in trouble =)



    I use mobile me so that my webspace needs are met by intelligent people using intelligent software.



    So, as an update we have:

    Windows: gaming, naming files, FTP

    Leopard: everything else
  • Reply 29 of 110
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    http://www.macvswindows.com/ has more comparisons than we'll ever make in this thread.



    Having a quick look reminded me that another good thing in Windows is the ability to resize windows from any edge or corner, rather than only the bottom-right corner in OS X.
  • Reply 30 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    File renaming is handled much more intelligently in Windows.



    Both Windows and OS X have limitations on file names in terms of length and allowable characters. OS X has the advantage that there is only one illegal character, the colon. In Windows there are nine.



    Anyway, in Windows, when renaming a file, Windows will cease to enter characters once the character limit is reached. If you try to enter any of the nine characters that are illegal, a pop up appears listing non-allowed characters.



    What happens in OS X is a perfect example of lazy, sloppy programming. It will also stop adding characters once the character limit is reached (pretty sure this is new in Leopard), but it will allow you to type colons. When you hit return, a message like this pops up:







    This is not as helpful as it should be. It should tell you exactly what is wrong with the file name (or, indeed, simply not have allowed you to type the illegal character in the first place).



    To make matters even worse, once you've clicked on "OK" on that dialogue box, the file name is reverted back to what you had before. This is extremely annoying if you have made extensive changes to the filename. What should happen instead is that the filename remains highlighted and in its illegal state, so that you can easily remove/change illegal characters without having to start all over again.



    The dialog box you are quoting here points out that you cannot use a colon ( : ) character in a file name and yes, there is a limit placed on how many characters can be in a file name. In OS X the colon character is NOT allowed for use in a file name. Those concepts are basics of all operating systems regardless of manufacturer or platform. All operating systems have certain restrictions on character usage and some are reserved for system use only, the colon, in OS X is one of them.



    As far as file naming, you can rename the file directly in the finder or in the CLI using UNIX commands. Alternatively, there are utilities that allow you to rename files to your hearts content. I believe that when the file name reverts back to its original name, that is your reminder to fix your mistake. It's really just a matter of learning the operating system. I have used both platforms long enough to understand that each one has its own strengths and weaknesses.



    The point I make is that while hardware and software is inexpensive for windows compared to Macintosh, the Macintosh is a more integrated and complete solution. The same manufacturer makes both the hardware and software thereby making compatibility less of an issue compared to windows. Macintosh computers in nearly every instance work just as they should. In nearly 20 years of using both platforms, I've only had ONE system failure on a Macintosh. I've lost count on windows boxes...
  • Reply 31 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Disagree. Leopard renders FTP obsolete with all of its networking features. Your problem is that you are trying to use leopard just like you use windows.



    As a matter of fact in every regard dealing with networking I would say Leopard is much much superior than Windows.



    The main reason networking is poorly implemented in windows is that it was added after the fact, in OS X (Leopard or otherwise...) it has been an integral part of the initial system, OS X is based on UNIX via BSD which was given network ability from inception.
  • Reply 32 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Aaaah, the thing I hate the most about OS X (Windows does it properly):



    Selecting list items using keyboard shift-arrow key shortcut.



    Using iTunes as an example: In an iTunes playlist, multiple tracks can be selected by clicking on a track, then holding down the shift key whilst pressing the up/down arrow keys.



    Pressing the down arrow key always extends the selection downwards, whilst pressing the up arrow key always extends the selection upwards. This means that it is impossible to contract your selection, you can only make it bigger.



    I find this highly annoying and think that the selection process should work like selection of text in applications such as TextEdit. This would make the interface more consistent and more intuitive. The function of the up/down arrow keys should depend on the direction in which the selection was originally extended.



    For example, imagine wanting to make a selection starting at a particular song and extending downwards: if you overshoot your intended selection, you should be able to contract the selection by pressing the up arrow key. Correspondingly, if your original selection was upwards, pressing the down arrow key should then contract the selection.



    If you don't understand WTH I'm talking about, just open text edit, copy and paste this post, click somewhere in the middle, press and hold shift, then play with the up/down arrow keys and see what happens. Now go to iTunes or Finder in list view, click on a song/file, press and hold shift and play with the up/down arrow keys. Which behaviour is more intuitive?



    This appears to be more of an iTunes issue rather than an OS X issue, iTunes is independent as an application from OS X. It only requires OS X to run, perhaps you should report this to iTunes support as a recommendation for the next release. This comment isn't really relevant to the topic here.
  • Reply 33 of 110
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imacmadman22 View Post


    The dialog box you are quoting here points out that you cannot use a colon ( : ) character in a file name and yes, there is a limit placed on how many characters can be in a file name. In OS X the colon character is NOT allowed for use in a file name. Those concepts are basics of all operating systems regardless of manufacturer or platform. All operating systems have certain restrictions on character usage and some are reserved for system use only, the colon, in OS X is one of them.



    I will admit that some things I could have explained better, but I think it's obvious from my post that I know the colon is not allowed in filenames in OS X. My point is that the dialogue is extremely unhelpful for new users of the OS.



    The dialogue that appears when there's something wrong with the new file name is lazy, sloppy programming. The dialogue always says "try using another name, with fewer characters or no punctuation marks", regardless of what specifically is wrong with the filename. Here's a better example:







    The only thing wrong with that filename is the single colon that is in it. All the other punctuation marks are allowed and it isn't too long. But OS X has brought up a dialogue box suggesting a shorter name or one with no puntuation marks. Why doesn't it just say "that name isn't allowed because it contains a colon. Colons are not permitted in file names"? If the name's too long, say so, if there are illegal characters, say which characters are the illegal ones. Don't be lazy and just use one dialogue box as an unhelpful catch-all.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imacmadman22 View Post


    As far as file naming, you can rename the file directly in the finder or in the CLI using UNIX commands.



    Do I dispute this? No, I'm just saying that Finder doesn't handle renaming of files as well as Windows does.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imacmadman22 View Post


    I believe that when the file name reverts back to its original name, that is your reminder to fix your mistake.



    Looks like I didn't explain this thoroughly enough. Let's say a file is named "1". and you want to name it "Here's a better example of why Finder's "that name isn't allowed" dialogue box is lazy, sloppy, unhelpful programming. This filename is quite long and has loads of punctuation marks in it: ", . ><?|}{+_)(*&^%$£@!±§[]"", so you edit the filename, type all that in, and hit return. The dialogue box pops up telling you that name isn't allowed, and when you press "OK", the filename is reverted to "1". Very annoying! You've just lost all that typing, when there was only one character wrong. When you press "OK" in the "that name's not allowed" dialogue box, the filename should remain highlighted in the illegal state, allowing you to remove the offending characters, rather than reverting to the original file name and forcing you to re-type everything.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imacmadman22 View Post


    It's really just a matter of learning the operating system.



    I've been using OS X since Developer Preview 2, so I know how to use it well enough. The problem is that no matter how well you know how to use an OS, that doesn't suddenly stop its crap bits being crap.
  • Reply 34 of 110
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imacmadman22 View Post


    This appears to be more of an iTunes issue rather than an OS X issue, iTunes is independent as an application from OS X. It only requires OS X to run, perhaps you should report this to iTunes support as a recommendation for the next release. This comment isn't really relevant to the topic here.



    No, it appears that you didn't try this in any other applications before replying. I said "using iTunes as an example" (emphasis added). OS X's list item selection behaves like this in all applications. It's an OS X problem and therefore pertinent to this thread, as Windows does not suffer from the same affliction.
  • Reply 35 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    No, it appears that you didn't try this in any other applications before replying. I said "using iTunes as an example" (emphasis added). OS X's list item selection behaves like this in all applications. It's an OS X problem and therefore pertinent to this thread, as Windows does not suffer from the same affliction.



    iTunes on Windows does. Heh.
  • Reply 36 of 110
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    iTunes on Windows does. Heh.



  • Reply 37 of 110
    -Much more expansive range of hardware. Apple 2006 on tends to box you in based on their stereotype of you.

    -Better media center capabilities. You need third party software for PVR capabilities on the Mac.

    -Blu-Ray Support

    -Direct X

    -Can't think of anything else.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post


    1. In windows you can play full-screen videos with the default media player.



    Both iTunes and Quicktime can do that.
  • Reply 38 of 110
    xyz001xyz001 Posts: 117member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    You can do that on OS X, too. Apple change QuickTime a while back so that you don't need the Pro version to do full screen. And iTunes will go full screen, too.



    Great! I didnt know that.



    The only thing that used to annoy me with quicktime.



    And BTW mr. H, I like your posts. You are completely right about these small things, that can annoy the hell out of you I think you should report them to apple.
  • Reply 39 of 110
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Can anyone give me a brief explanation about OSX networking superiority?



    All of our clients are on Windows networks and only one has Macs. Of course, only network problems they have are with their Macs.



    So I presume OSX "superior" networking is something that happens in Apple networks but in real world, with dominant Windows networks... for me, it's like saying Esperanto is better communication tool than English, however, in the world where English is dominant communication tool, that argument is pointless.
  • Reply 40 of 110
    Thanks for information



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