Not all entirely true and the MBA is still slower than a MB.
I was never arguing that the MacBook Air was faster than the MacBook. I was arguing the MacBook Air, with its use of Intel's miniaturized Intel Core 2 Duo, is faster than netbooks, which make use of Intel's slower Atom and Celeron M processors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Plus SSD goes in both the netbook and the MBA. As I say, people expect a performance drop when using an ultra-portable as you do using an iphone.
Yes, both have SSDs. I said that! But most netbooks that make use of SSDs use low-capacity 2GB to 8GB drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Ok but we can do the same comparison between apps people use now and apps people used 3-4 years ago. Back then, we had maybe single 1.5GHz G4s vs now with Core 2 Duos. I can't say that web browsing, text editing, email, SD video etc improves vastly going from the old machine to the new one.
Unless you're from the future, you have no clue what applications of the future will require in terms of performance. Nobody does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Yes it looks very similar to a MBA but now it's not a selling point for the MBA. It is also portable.
The fact the netbook you posted kind of looks like the Air doesn't mean most netbooks look as good. The MacBook Air's looks are still a selling point because the one you posted is nowhere near as elegant and if I'm not mistaken, it's made out of plastic, not aluminum.
I agree. I don't see the point in a machine with a 9", 10" or 11" screen. Sure, it's smaller, but you can't put it in your pocket, and the screen and keyboard comfort levels go way down.
I'd still argue that a 10" machine with a 75% keyboard would still be far more comfortable and practical than typing on a touch, iPhone or a tablet. Even if you thought the tablet would have a physical keyboard as mentioned, it would still have to be 13" to be full size, and by your account, comfortable, thus rendering it completely unable to fit in a pocket.
Sure, this is coming from someone who still doesn't get the appeal of a tablet in the first place. From a "pocketability" standpoint, unless I"m wearing a coat, the iPhone isn't very pocketable, which means I'm out of luck in the summer. A tablet would just be bigger, and less portable, and the last think I would want to have to do is type on one.
As for a 10" Air, I'm all for it. I've tried other netbooks, and I don't have a problem with the keyboard size. Sony has been putting compact Vaios out like this for a while, so a more premium machine with a compact keyboard isn't new. And yeah, you couldn't put it in a pocket, but everytime you make something smaller it inherently gets more portable. After all, this is the logic behind all laptop design, especially the whole point of the air. If we didn't care about the actual size of something that wasn't small enough for a pocket, then we'd walk around with laptops that were 2" thick
I'd still argue that a 10" machine with a 75% keyboard would still be far more comfortable and practical than typing on a touch, iPhone or a tablet.
You don't type on an iPhone/iPod touch virtual keyboard with all your fingers on the virtual keys as you would with a regular keyboard, do you? No. That's why it works: you type with your thumbs.
I agree on the mythical tablet because it would require the user to type with all their fingers on a big, non-tactile piece of glass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Sure, this is coming from someone who still doesn't get the appeal of a tablet in the first place. From a "pocketability" standpoint, unless I"m wearing a coat, the iPhone isn't very pocketable, which means I'm out of luck in the summer.
You don't type on an iPhone/iPod touch virtual keyboard with all your fingers on the virtual keys as you would with a regular keyboard, do you? No. That's why it works: you type with your thumbs.
Maybe its just me, but typing on an iPhone keyboard with any of my fingers, let alone thumbs, usually results in the wrong keys getting hit. The keys are too small. If they were tactile, it would be easier, but with a screen it doesn't work. Besides, even if you're used to typing on an iPhone, I don't think you'd want to do it for anything serious. An ultraportable would be more practical for wordy emails or actual word processing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon
You're kidding, right?
Nope, especially when you throw some of the shield/covers on the thing. Also, keep in mind pocketability to me doesn't mean you can fit it in your pocket, it means it can stay there comfortably, even when you sit down. the iPhone is just a little big for me based upon that.
I think comparing a netbook at 1/6th the price to the MBA is a valid comparison.
I agree with you if price (and price only) was the only difference between the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Even assuming it doesn't last 6 months, which isn't true in general, you can buy 5 and still be cheaper than the MBA.
That's very true. But to many people, downtime costs a lot more than the money one would save having a cheap laptop. If one were to fail at the worst possible time where I could not buy one of the cheap replacements, the money I personally would lose would have made up the difference. Just because it's cheap, doesn't mean it's the best value. An Item that is constantly missed here. Perhaps you're recommending I just go and buy 5 replacements at the same time and keep at least one additional unit with me in case it fails? Doesn't sound too portable for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
I just don't see the huge benefits and the MBA's disappointing sales records show other people feel the same.
This remark has been said constantly on other threads since the beginning of time. Please back up that statement with actual proof please? Even Apple's own figures shows the MBA as one of its top sellers. Apparently, you have documentation to the contrary. We are waiting for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
As always, people will be defensive about their own purchase, I would be too and if MBA owners feel that it was worth the money then I don't have a problem with that.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my defending my purchase. You and other individuals press your beliefs that this is a failed product and that no one would in their right mind would want to buy one with the cheaper options out there. I offered you real-world proof that the MBA is an excellent product and has exceeded even my own (business-use) expectations. You have different standards to what laptops should be. I can respect that. My standards are different than yours. But they are not any less important.
My previous laptops were cheaper than the MBA. In fact, my MBA was the most expensive one I've purchased yet. My other laptops would have subtle failures on them that show up slowly over time. Loose connections, faulty hardware, sub-standard quality which over time manifests itself into a broken machine. They are not built for true mobility for the long run. Even with a 600% difference, there is a cost associated with cheap machines that you do not factor in. The MBA is for folks that understand that. There is a high-cost to low prices.
Maybe its just me, but typing on an iPhone keyboard with any of my fingers, let alone thumbs, usually results in the wrong keys getting hit. The keys are too small. If they were tactile, it would be easier, but with a screen it doesn't work.
Maybe if you're trying to blind type on the thing. The other reason it works is because you are actually looking at the keys (or just barely above them) as you type. It also learns your mistakes the more you use it.
But you're trying to compare your experience with computer keyboards to a virtual keyboard on a much smaller touch screen phone. I'd suggest comparing it to the keyboards of other, similar devices: BlackBerrys, WinMobile phones, etc. that have physical or virtual keyboards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Besides, even if you're used to typing on an iPhone, I don't think you'd want to do it for anything serious. An ultraportable would be more practical for wordy emails or actual word processing.
I wasn't arguing that the iPhone is better or worse for long typing sessions versus a netbook really. Neither are ideal, but one isn't trying to offer a shrunken computer experience (the iPhone) and one is (the netbook).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Nope, especially when you throw some of the shield/covers on the thing.
Then don't use a big clunky case. Get one that's slim, or use a stick-on screen protector, or just be careful with your device. My 5.5 generation black iPod video was known for notoriously getting a scratched up front (because they still used that plastic) and screen (because they're plastic as well). I have zero scratches on the front because I use the included cloth slip and when I don't, I usually put it in my pocket with the screen facing my leg. The iPhone uses a more scratch-resistant glass screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
Also, keep in mind pocketability to me doesn't mean you can fit it in your pocket, it means it can stay there comfortably, even when you sit down. the iPhone is just a little big for me based upon that.
Mmm, that would have helped. Because when most people hear pocketable, they think "can fit in my pocket," the end.
There are a number of people I see around with iPhones and I don't see them having to pull their iPhones out of their pockets every time they sit down. Perhaps you're a small child or wear really tight pants? If so, that's your problem.
... The netbooks look cool. Check out the new one: ....
The bottom line for me on your arguments is that you still don't seem to want to allow for people thinking anything different about these products than yourself. What you value in terms of features is not always going to be the same as what others value and I just think you are wrong when you imply that people don't like the MacBook Air or are foolish to use it.
... Ok that's fine that you're happy with the machine and it fits your needs. It's a machine that tries to balance decent performance while being extremely light and portable. ... I just don't see the huge benefits and the MBA's disappointing sales records show other people feel the same.
Okay I was being nice cause you are an older poster and a moderator etc. but you are just being a total ass here and basically making crap up.
The MacBook Air sold extremely well at first and has now tapered off since the new Macbooks came out. This is neither unusual nor surprising in any way. They literally flew off the shelves when they came out. To characterise the sales as "disappointing" is both unnecessarily vague and misleading at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
... As always, people will be defensive about their own purchase, I would be too and if MBA owners feel that it was worth the money then I don't have a problem with that.
And here you go so far as to imply that people are only defending the MacBook Air due to some kind of buyer remorse or a failure to be mature and own up to what they "really" believe in their heart of hearts or something???
What an ass you are. What a colossal, full-of-yourself smug, jerky thing to say.
You shouldn't be a moderator here if you are only capable as being as crass and insulting as some of the worst of posters on the forum.
What's so hard about simply agreeing that some people think the MacBook Air is a great, solid product that fits their needs and is worth the price? We are all just idiots cause we don't agree with you?
A 15" Macbook Air. I'm sure the market would prefer a $599 Macbook Mini before that. I know I would. A 9" to 10" LED size would be great for the kids and replace the portable DVD player.
A 15" Macbook Air. I'm sure the market would prefer a $599 Macbook Mini before that. I know I would. A 9" to 10" LED size would be great for the kids and replace the portable DVD player.
You think Apple would put a DVD player in something quite a bit smaller than the Air?
....A lot of people buy the MacBook Air because it's a cool laptop that simply meets their needs......
.... IMO the MacBook Air is not some freakish thing that only people with a strong need for portability would choose, it's just a laptop like any other with a set of features.
I think you're right, and that the key line is "suit their needs". I thought the Air would suit my needs perfectly as a gig- and on the go laptop. It's cool, robust, light, got a great screen and with a flash drive (I take it) pretty reliable. Though it turned out they priced the whole thing as a premium product, and plus it lacked FireWire that is part of my current list of needs... so no Air for me.
A future 15" air? I don't know if they'll sell more computers in total with two Air configurations available.. Perhaps a few.. but I don't personally think it's needed. They'd sell more of them if its cost actually reflected its place in the Mac lineup.
That's very true. But to many people, downtime costs a lot more than the money one would save having a cheap laptop. If one were to fail at the worst possible time where I could not buy one of the cheap replacements, the money I personally would lose would have made up the difference.
What happens when the MBA fails and you have to send it to Apple for up to a week? Price is not always a good metric for failure rate - people tend to post pictures of the Bugatti Veron on the back of a breakdown truck to demonstrate this. I'd actually say that the netbook has less chance of failing given that it has a low power, low heat CPU. The MBA is running a much faster CPU in a small enclosure.
You wouldn't carry two netbooks with you but you could have a backup at home and you'd have at most a few hours downtime. As someone else mentioned, you'd also worry less about knocking a netbook around. If I had an expensive ultra-portable, I'd actually try to avoid taking it places where it might be damaged for example on a flight where someone could spill a drink on it or in a train where someone could stand on the bag assuming it wasn't in a hard case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
This remark has been said constantly on other threads since the beginning of time. Please back up that statement with actual proof please? Even Apple's own figures shows the MBA as one of its top sellers. Apparently, you have documentation to the contrary. We are waiting for it.
There were comparison figures between shipments of MBA and Macbooks and the MBA was only a fraction of them. I think they were 150,000 per month. The newest figures are clearer though and posted on AI showing that Acer has pushed Apple down a spot largely due to their netbooks.
Success of a product depends on what Apple expect from it of course and it's clear that high volume is not necessarily what they call a success. Apple would never declare any of their products a failure publicly even if it wasn't what they expected. They'd just try to keep the figures as hidden away as possible like any other company would. Nonetheless, the actual figures are not what matters to me but the following.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
You and other individuals press your beliefs that this is a failed product and that no one would in their right mind would want to buy one with the cheaper options out there.
Not quite, I don't think it's a market that is nearly as large as the netbook market. Going after the high end market means they probably won't ever aim for the larger market as the products would conflict. This means people who would love to have a Mac netbook are left disappointed that Apple won't cater to them. I think the better move is to satisfy the larger audience.
Apple try hard to move into the lives of families and students with their software products and yet they price themselves right out of those markets with products that satisfy a whole other group of people.
Ideally, they just need to have more products. Sony have high end ultra-portables and the Vaio P seems to be their effort in moving towards the netbook price range.
But you're trying to compare your experience with computer keyboards to a virtual keyboard on a much smaller touch screen phone. I'd suggest comparing it to the keyboards of other, similar devices: BlackBerrys, WinMobile phones, etc. that have physical or virtual keyboards.
I used to have a blackberry, and I can say that typing on it was quite a bit better than the iPhone. I think I just have a preference for physical keys that have a tactile "click" to them. Certainly, the iPhone trumps my old blackberry in just about every way, mind you, but that's just my preference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon
There are a number of people I see around with iPhones and I don't see them having to pull their iPhones out of their pockets every time they sit down. Perhaps you're a small child or wear really tight pants? If so, that's your problem.
Me in tight pants would not be a good thing. I've just always wanted something that was comfortable in a front pocket, and haven't found much (I'm still holding out for the Zoolander phone). The iPhone would fit fine in a back pocket, but then you end up sitting on it when you sit down. A phone the size of an iPod nano? perfect, but I don't think anyone wants to start that conversation here.
Thank you so much for the asinine tone. It really makes me want to hear you out.
When you make a ton of assumptions and wrong statements, you should be prepared for that.
Quote:
Alright, I stand corrected, though most consumers don't have any idea (or interest in) hacking their netbook to run Mac OS X. Windows XP can't compete with Leopard's features, reliability and usability (which I'm sure you're aware of).
Two non sequiturs in one paragraph. You claimed that netbooks booted slowly. I pointed out that that is not the case with either OS X or XP. Now you come back and say, well, they don't know how to hack OS X and XP sucks.
Quote:
Ok, I should have said many netbooks have pathetic storage because they make use of piddly solid-state drives that are dwarfed by Apple's iPods and iPhones built-in storage.
Define "many." All of the netbook makers have hard drive models. Many netbook models have 160GB options from the factory, which gives them more storage than the Macbook Air. If you want to spend $70 and a few minutes, upgrade to 320GB, since these are standard 2.5" laptop drives, not 1.8". Or go to 500GB for a little over $100, which isn't even possible in an Air owner's wildest dreams. These drives are, of course, 5400rpm, not the "piddly" 4200rpm 120GB drive that the Air ships with. Some newer, higher-end netbooks actually have both an SSD and HD.
Quote:
That's good that yours does. But from my understanding, most still use cathode tubes. The Air obviously uses a bigger display, but also a higher resolution one, which raises the price tag.
Again, wrong. HP Mini-Note uses LED. As does Dell Mini. And Asus Aspire One. And eeePC. And MSI. That covers all the major players in the netbook market.
Quote:
I was being a bit facetious, sheesh!
With that said, I could totally see people developing eyestrain from using an 8" to 10" screen and wrist/hand cramps from a micro keyboard.
You mean you can totally assume it. Have you any evidence to back up your assumptions? There are a lot of netbook users out there. I haven't heard of anyone complaining about carpal tunnel syndrome. I switch back and forth between full-size and the slightly undersize keyboard on my netbook without any problems. No cramps at all. I dare say that I would have greater likelihood of getting a cramp from holding an iPhone in my left hand while typing a few hundred words on its tiny keyboard over ten minutes. Eyestrain would come from a small pixel pitch, and the netbooks actually have about the same pitch as the 13" MB displays. Even the iPhone has a smaller pixel pitch. How about the top of the line Dell notebook, with a stunning 1920x1080 resolution in a 16" screen? Want to claim eyestrain on either of those, too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon
I was never arguing that the MacBook Air was faster than the MacBook. I was arguing the MacBook Air, with its use of Intel's miniaturized Intel Core 2 Duo, is faster than netbooks, which make use of Intel's slower Atom and Celeron M processors.
The point people are making is that most users don't need Core 2 Duo on the go. In fact, it's no stretch to say most users don't need it, period. Casual users, who comprise the vast majority of the population, don't need a lot of power, ever.
Quote:
Unless you're from the future, you have no clue what applications of the future will require in terms of performance. Nobody does.
Programmers would have users screaming if they suddenly decided that web browsers must have 2GB of physical RAM and a Core 2 Quad to run on. Again, casual users use applications with system requirements that don't rocket upward over time.
Quote:
The fact the netbook you posted kind of looks like the Air doesn't mean most netbooks look as good. The MacBook Air's looks are still a selling point because the one you posted is nowhere near as elegant and if I'm not mistaken, it's made out of plastic, not aluminum.
If you're interested in looks alone, that's fine. But that machine is actually in many ways more capable than the Air. It's the MSI X-Slim X320. In some ways, it's not a netbook. It has a dual-core Atom and integrated graphics, but other than that, nothing in common with netbooks. It has the same size screen as the Air, two battery sizes for a rated 5 or 10 hours of battery life, and you might have noticed that it has three USB ports vs. the Air's one, plus an Ethernet port and an SD card reader. It's about the same thickness and weight as the Air for almost half the price. And yes, you are mistaken, it does use aluminum for most of its casing.
As for a 10" Air, I'm all for it. I've tried other netbooks, and I don't have a problem with the keyboard size. Sony has been putting compact Vaios out like this for a while, so a more premium machine with a compact keyboard isn't new. And yeah, you couldn't put it in a pocket, but everytime you make something smaller it inherently gets more portable. After all, this is the logic behind all laptop design, especially the whole point of the air. If we didn't care about the actual size of something that wasn't small enough for a pocket, then we'd walk around with laptops that were 2" thick
I don't think there is a continuum of smallness. There are sweet spots. Pocket size is a sweet spot. Notebooks, which are essentially the size of of a sheet of office paper, or an office folder, are another sweet spot. Thickness matters within this form factor, as does weight. But reducing the form factor to something non-standard doesn't really do anything for you.
Netbooks don't do much for you in terms of size. They sell because they are very cheap. They are small not out of a philosophical or design reason. They are small because small screens are cheap.
The proof is that ultra small notebooks are not a new category, and they never sold well before. They sell well now not because the format suddenly makes sense, but because its the cheapest way to get a portable computer of any kind. A large part of the market is about price, price, price, no matter what. This is why Walmart exists.
Apple has been going in the other direction for some time. Big displays, higher quality, higher performance. They don't even make 17" iMacs anymore, not to mention 15" ones.
Now you can argue that Apple should make cheap machines to get that segment of the market. But Jobs has quite clearly said he's not interested in the people who put price as their #1 priority. He is right. The minute Apple starts doing that, they won't be able to sustain their engineering and software development costs. Price-driven consumers are never satisfied, and there is always a cheaper supplier. They will drive you all the way to the bottom. Look at how PC makers are doing. This is a battle Apple cannot engage in: it cannot win.
To the extent they enter the netbook market, it will be with a different class of device. A device that makes sense on its own, not because of price, and that adds a specific value to buyers.
Not quite, I don't think it's a market that is nearly as large as the netbook market. Going after the high end market means they probably won't ever aim for the larger market as the products would conflict. This means people who would love to have a Mac netbook are left disappointed that Apple won't cater to them. I think the better move is to satisfy the larger audience.
So basically you think that those of us who like the Air should go pound sand, so that Apple can sell crappy plastic junk with tiny screens and shrunken keyboards, because somehow this is the same segment of the market?
These are COMPLETELY different market segments. Portability is pretty much the only feature they have in common. I bought an Air and the netbooks never entered my mind.
Netbooks aren't a hit because they are portable. They are a hit because they are cheap. Yet another ridiculous price point in the long-running race to the bottom that is the PC industry outside of Apple.
Cheap netbooks look and feel like disposable crap. You want something decent in the ultraportable space and you have to go to OQO, for example, which cost around $1K depending on the model.
It's the MSI X-Slim X320. In some ways, it's not a netbook. It has a dual-core Atom and integrated graphics, but other than that, nothing in common with netbooks. It has the same size screen as the Air, two battery sizes for a rated 5 or 10 hours of battery life, and you might have noticed that it has three USB ports vs. the Air's one, plus an Ethernet port and an SD card reader. It's about the same thickness and weight as the Air for almost half the price. And yes, you are mistaken, it does use aluminum for most of its casing.
It's a blatant copy of the Air. My point being, Apple did the design and development work. I value that, and I'm fine with paying for it. If we all bought copies, soon there will be no originals and the industry would be stuck again recycling old formats forever.
I also value OS/X over Windows. The MSI will come with Windows, perhaps Linux also. Windows stinks, and you need to spend money in exchange for no added functionality. Right off the bat you need to buy an anti-virus and renew it every year. If you get Vista Starter, common in cheap machines. you need to upgrade in order to run more than three apps at a time and get rid of the "Starter Edition" watermark.
When MSI actually does some innovation we can talk. Right now, you are basically saying a Rolex knockoff bought on the street is cheaper than the real thing. Well, duh!
Netbooks don't do much for you in terms of size. They sell because they are very cheap. They are small not out of a philosophical or design reason. They are small because small screens are cheap.
The proof is that ultra small notebooks are not a new category, and they never sold well before. They sell well now not because the format suddenly makes sense, but because its the cheapest way to get a portable computer of any kind. A large part of the market is about price, price, price, no matter what. This is why Walmart exists.
To the extent they enter the netbook market, it will be with a different class of device. A device that makes sense on its own, not because of price, and that adds a specific value to buyers.
This is why I bring up the new Vaio P - the price has nothing to do with netbooks - anything in the $800-1200 range is out of that catergory The press has been going nuts over it, and people seem very interested. Will it sell well? Time will tell us, but the initial buzz seems to to prove that people are willing to pay for a machine that has a netbook form factor but with more premium parts (and prices).
Netbooks, and ultraportables, seem to work out well for people all around my city. People seem to want something that's larger than an iPhone, but small enough that you don't need a dedicated laptop bag to carry. Netbooks can be thrown in a purse, or man-purse for that matter, so it doesn't shock me that I see them all over coffee shops. Most people still seem to have a desktop for household tasks, they just want something they can casually browse on, email, etc. This is why I'd like to see a 9"-10" Air. Even if you charged $1000-1100 for it, I'm still sure people would go out and buy it.
When you make a ton of assumptions and wrong statements, you should be prepared for that.
I was ignorant. You were being a douche bag by choice. There's no excuse for being a douche bag, especially to someone you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
Two non sequiturs in one paragraph. You claimed that netbooks booted slowly. I pointed out that that is not the case with either OS X or XP. Now you come back and say, well, they don't know how to hack OS X and XP sucks.
Let's see, who brought up that they could hack their netbook to run Leopard?
I said "I stand corrected." Then I noted that most people don't have the slightest idea how to hack OS X, thus bringing up that you could was pointless.
Windows XP may have around the same boot time, but it doesn't match up to Leopard in features, reliability, etc. That was an aside which I should have made clearer, sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
Define "many." All of the netbook makers have hard drive models. Many netbook models have 160GB options from the factory, which gives them more storage than the Macbook Air. If you want to spend $70 and a few minutes, upgrade to 320GB, since these are standard 2.5" laptop drives, not 1.8". Or go to 500GB for a little over $100, which isn't even possible in an Air owner's wildest dreams. These drives are, of course, 5400rpm, not the "piddly" 4200rpm 120GB drive that the Air ships with. Some newer, higher-end netbooks actually have both an SSD and HD.
Hmm, maybe I am a bit behind the times. But I remember many early netbooks - as in mid to early 2008 and back - making use of low-capacity SSDs, like the EeePC. Is this a recent development? I am being serious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
Again, wrong. HP Mini-Note uses LED. As does Dell Mini. And Asus Aspire One. And eeePC. And MSI. That covers all the major players in the netbook market.
Now, yes. What about the timeframe I'm talking about above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
You mean you can totally assume it.
No, I can see people getting eyestrain from using tiny screens for long periods of time. I can see people getting cramped hands from using keyboards that are smaller than stand, full-size keyboards. I'll add I can also see people making more typing errors thanks to the tiny, poorly spaced out keys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
Have you any evidence to back up your assumptions?
Oh, I need evidence for logical conjectures?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
There are a lot of netbook users out there.
Sorry, that's not true. Netbooks haven't been around that long, nor have they gained any real popularity until recently. Netbooks represent a miniscule niche that's eating into similarly priced full-size laptops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
I haven't heard of anyone complaining about carpal tunnel syndrome.
I already said I was being facetious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
I switch back and forth between full-size and the slightly undersize keyboard on my netbook without any problems. No cramps at all.
I don't think I need to tell you this but...you are only one person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
I dare say that I would have greater likelihood of getting a cramp from holding an iPhone in my left hand while typing a few hundred words on its tiny keyboard over ten minutes.
The iPhone isn't marketed nor is it designed to be a full-on computer. It's actually meant to sync with a computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
Eyestrain would come from a small pixel pitch, and the netbooks actually have about the same pitch as the 13" MB displays. Even the iPhone has a smaller pixel pitch. How about the top of the line Dell notebook, with a stunning 1920x1080 resolution in a 16" screen? Want to claim eyestrain on either of those, too?
An 8" to 10" display with ~1024x768 resolution has about the same pixel pitch as a 1440x900 13.3" MacBook Air (or MacBook) display?
If Dell has a laptop with a display of that size at that resolution, yeah, that could potentially result in eyestrain as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
The point people are making is that most users don't need Core 2 Duo on the go. In fact, it's no stretch to say most users don't need it, period. Casual users, who comprise the vast majority of the population, don't need a lot of power, ever.
Did you see Apple's Macworld keynote last week where it was noted Macs are selling over twice as fast as the rest of the industry? How do you explain that?
Obviously not everyone needs that much performance, but many obviously see something worthwhile in a machine that can do more than just the basics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
If you're interested in looks alone, that's fine.
I'm not. I was responding to Marvin's very specific comment about looks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Yes it looks very similar to a MBA but now it's not a selling point for the MBA. It is also portable.
(I was not trying to address or imply that I was trying to address that second sentence about portability.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
And yes, you are mistaken, it does use aluminum for most of its casing.
Obviously if it's not entirely aluminum then I'm not entirely mistaken, am I?
Comments
Not all entirely true and the MBA is still slower than a MB.
I was never arguing that the MacBook Air was faster than the MacBook.
Plus SSD goes in both the netbook and the MBA. As I say, people expect a performance drop when using an ultra-portable as you do using an iphone.
Yes, both have SSDs. I said that! But most netbooks that make use of SSDs use low-capacity 2GB to 8GB drives.
Ok but we can do the same comparison between apps people use now and apps people used 3-4 years ago. Back then, we had maybe single 1.5GHz G4s vs now with Core 2 Duos. I can't say that web browsing, text editing, email, SD video etc improves vastly going from the old machine to the new one.
Unless you're from the future, you have no clue what applications of the future will require in terms of performance. Nobody does.
Yes it looks very similar to a MBA but now it's not a selling point for the MBA. It is also portable.
The fact the netbook you posted kind of looks like the Air doesn't mean most netbooks look as good. The MacBook Air's looks are still a selling point because the one you posted is nowhere near as elegant and if I'm not mistaken, it's made out of plastic, not aluminum.
This time it takes a few clues from the Sony VAIO P series.
The trackpad idea is... interesting.
Full size pictures here.
Have a nice week-end.
I agree. I don't see the point in a machine with a 9", 10" or 11" screen. Sure, it's smaller, but you can't put it in your pocket, and the screen and keyboard comfort levels go way down.
I'd still argue that a 10" machine with a 75% keyboard would still be far more comfortable and practical than typing on a touch, iPhone or a tablet. Even if you thought the tablet would have a physical keyboard as mentioned, it would still have to be 13" to be full size, and by your account, comfortable, thus rendering it completely unable to fit in a pocket.
Sure, this is coming from someone who still doesn't get the appeal of a tablet in the first place. From a "pocketability" standpoint, unless I"m wearing a coat, the iPhone isn't very pocketable, which means I'm out of luck in the summer. A tablet would just be bigger, and less portable, and the last think I would want to have to do is type on one.
As for a 10" Air, I'm all for it. I've tried other netbooks, and I don't have a problem with the keyboard size. Sony has been putting compact Vaios out like this for a while, so a more premium machine with a compact keyboard isn't new. And yeah, you couldn't put it in a pocket, but everytime you make something smaller it inherently gets more portable. After all, this is the logic behind all laptop design, especially the whole point of the air. If we didn't care about the actual size of something that wasn't small enough for a pocket, then we'd walk around with laptops that were 2" thick
I'd still argue that a 10" machine with a 75% keyboard would still be far more comfortable and practical than typing on a touch, iPhone or a tablet.
You don't type on an iPhone/iPod touch virtual keyboard with all your fingers on the virtual keys as you would with a regular keyboard, do you? No. That's why it works: you type with your thumbs.
I agree on the mythical tablet because it would require the user to type with all their fingers on a big, non-tactile piece of glass.
Sure, this is coming from someone who still doesn't get the appeal of a tablet in the first place. From a "pocketability" standpoint, unless I"m wearing a coat, the iPhone isn't very pocketable, which means I'm out of luck in the summer.
You're kidding, right?
You don't type on an iPhone/iPod touch virtual keyboard with all your fingers on the virtual keys as you would with a regular keyboard, do you? No. That's why it works: you type with your thumbs.
Maybe its just me, but typing on an iPhone keyboard with any of my fingers, let alone thumbs, usually results in the wrong keys getting hit. The keys are too small. If they were tactile, it would be easier, but with a screen it doesn't work. Besides, even if you're used to typing on an iPhone, I don't think you'd want to do it for anything serious. An ultraportable would be more practical for wordy emails or actual word processing.
You're kidding, right?
Nope, especially when you throw some of the shield/covers on the thing. Also, keep in mind pocketability to me doesn't mean you can fit it in your pocket, it means it can stay there comfortably, even when you sit down. the iPhone is just a little big for me based upon that.
I think comparing a netbook at 1/6th the price to the MBA is a valid comparison.
I agree with you if price (and price only) was the only difference between the two.
Even assuming it doesn't last 6 months, which isn't true in general, you can buy 5 and still be cheaper than the MBA.
That's very true. But to many people, downtime costs a lot more than the money one would save having a cheap laptop. If one were to fail at the worst possible time where I could not buy one of the cheap replacements, the money I personally would lose would have made up the difference. Just because it's cheap, doesn't mean it's the best value. An Item that is constantly missed here. Perhaps you're recommending I just go and buy 5 replacements at the same time and keep at least one additional unit with me in case it fails? Doesn't sound too portable for me.
I just don't see the huge benefits and the MBA's disappointing sales records show other people feel the same.
This remark has been said constantly on other threads since the beginning of time. Please back up that statement with actual proof please? Even Apple's own figures shows the MBA as one of its top sellers. Apparently, you have documentation to the contrary. We are waiting for it.
As always, people will be defensive about their own purchase, I would be too and if MBA owners feel that it was worth the money then I don't have a problem with that.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my defending my purchase. You and other individuals press your beliefs that this is a failed product and that no one would in their right mind would want to buy one with the cheaper options out there. I offered you real-world proof that the MBA is an excellent product and has exceeded even my own (business-use) expectations. You have different standards to what laptops should be. I can respect that. My standards are different than yours. But they are not any less important.
My previous laptops were cheaper than the MBA. In fact, my MBA was the most expensive one I've purchased yet. My other laptops would have subtle failures on them that show up slowly over time. Loose connections, faulty hardware, sub-standard quality which over time manifests itself into a broken machine. They are not built for true mobility for the long run. Even with a 600% difference, there is a cost associated with cheap machines that you do not factor in. The MBA is for folks that understand that. There is a high-cost to low prices.
Maybe its just me, but typing on an iPhone keyboard with any of my fingers, let alone thumbs, usually results in the wrong keys getting hit. The keys are too small. If they were tactile, it would be easier, but with a screen it doesn't work.
Maybe if you're trying to blind type on the thing. The other reason it works is because you are actually looking at the keys (or just barely above them) as you type. It also learns your mistakes the more you use it.
But you're trying to compare your experience with computer keyboards to a virtual keyboard on a much smaller touch screen phone. I'd suggest comparing it to the keyboards of other, similar devices: BlackBerrys, WinMobile phones, etc. that have physical or virtual keyboards.
Besides, even if you're used to typing on an iPhone, I don't think you'd want to do it for anything serious. An ultraportable would be more practical for wordy emails or actual word processing.
I wasn't arguing that the iPhone is better or worse for long typing sessions versus a netbook really. Neither are ideal, but one isn't trying to offer a shrunken computer experience (the iPhone) and one is (the netbook).
Nope, especially when you throw some of the shield/covers on the thing.
Then don't use a big clunky case. Get one that's slim, or use a stick-on screen protector, or just be careful with your device. My 5.5 generation black iPod video was known for notoriously getting a scratched up front (because they still used that plastic) and screen (because they're plastic as well). I have zero scratches on the front because I use the included cloth slip and when I don't, I usually put it in my pocket with the screen facing my leg. The iPhone uses a more scratch-resistant glass screen.
Also, keep in mind pocketability to me doesn't mean you can fit it in your pocket, it means it can stay there comfortably, even when you sit down. the iPhone is just a little big for me based upon that.
Mmm, that would have helped. Because when most people hear pocketable, they think "can fit in my pocket," the end.
There are a number of people I see around with iPhones and I don't see them having to pull their iPhones out of their pockets every time they sit down. Perhaps you're a small child or wear really tight pants? If so, that's your problem.
... The netbooks look cool. Check out the new one: ....
The bottom line for me on your arguments is that you still don't seem to want to allow for people thinking anything different about these products than yourself. What you value in terms of features is not always going to be the same as what others value and I just think you are wrong when you imply that people don't like the MacBook Air or are foolish to use it.
... Ok that's fine that you're happy with the machine and it fits your needs. It's a machine that tries to balance decent performance while being extremely light and portable. ... I just don't see the huge benefits and the MBA's disappointing sales records show other people feel the same.
Okay I was being nice cause you are an older poster and a moderator etc. but you are just being a total ass here and basically making crap up.
The MacBook Air sold extremely well at first and has now tapered off since the new Macbooks came out. This is neither unusual nor surprising in any way. They literally flew off the shelves when they came out. To characterise the sales as "disappointing" is both unnecessarily vague and misleading at the same time.
... As always, people will be defensive about their own purchase, I would be too and if MBA owners feel that it was worth the money then I don't have a problem with that.
And here you go so far as to imply that people are only defending the MacBook Air due to some kind of buyer remorse or a failure to be mature and own up to what they "really" believe in their heart of hearts or something???
What an ass you are. What a colossal, full-of-yourself smug, jerky thing to say.
You shouldn't be a moderator here if you are only capable as being as crass and insulting as some of the worst of posters on the forum.
What's so hard about simply agreeing that some people think the MacBook Air is a great, solid product that fits their needs and is worth the price? We are all just idiots cause we don't agree with you?
A 15" Macbook Air. I'm sure the market would prefer a $599 Macbook Mini before that. I know I would. A 9" to 10" LED size would be great for the kids and replace the portable DVD player.
You think Apple would put a DVD player in something quite a bit smaller than the Air?
....A lot of people buy the MacBook Air because it's a cool laptop that simply meets their needs......
.... IMO the MacBook Air is not some freakish thing that only people with a strong need for portability would choose, it's just a laptop like any other with a set of features.
I think you're right, and that the key line is "suit their needs". I thought the Air would suit my needs perfectly as a gig- and on the go laptop. It's cool, robust, light, got a great screen and with a flash drive (I take it) pretty reliable. Though it turned out they priced the whole thing as a premium product, and plus it lacked FireWire that is part of my current list of needs... so no Air for me.
A future 15" air? I don't know if they'll sell more computers in total with two Air configurations available.. Perhaps a few.. but I don't personally think it's needed. They'd sell more of them if its cost actually reflected its place in the Mac lineup.
That's very true. But to many people, downtime costs a lot more than the money one would save having a cheap laptop. If one were to fail at the worst possible time where I could not buy one of the cheap replacements, the money I personally would lose would have made up the difference.
What happens when the MBA fails and you have to send it to Apple for up to a week? Price is not always a good metric for failure rate - people tend to post pictures of the Bugatti Veron on the back of a breakdown truck to demonstrate this. I'd actually say that the netbook has less chance of failing given that it has a low power, low heat CPU. The MBA is running a much faster CPU in a small enclosure.
You wouldn't carry two netbooks with you but you could have a backup at home and you'd have at most a few hours downtime. As someone else mentioned, you'd also worry less about knocking a netbook around. If I had an expensive ultra-portable, I'd actually try to avoid taking it places where it might be damaged for example on a flight where someone could spill a drink on it or in a train where someone could stand on the bag assuming it wasn't in a hard case.
This remark has been said constantly on other threads since the beginning of time. Please back up that statement with actual proof please? Even Apple's own figures shows the MBA as one of its top sellers. Apparently, you have documentation to the contrary. We are waiting for it.
There were comparison figures between shipments of MBA and Macbooks and the MBA was only a fraction of them. I think they were 150,000 per month. The newest figures are clearer though and posted on AI showing that Acer has pushed Apple down a spot largely due to their netbooks.
Success of a product depends on what Apple expect from it of course and it's clear that high volume is not necessarily what they call a success. Apple would never declare any of their products a failure publicly even if it wasn't what they expected. They'd just try to keep the figures as hidden away as possible like any other company would. Nonetheless, the actual figures are not what matters to me but the following.
You and other individuals press your beliefs that this is a failed product and that no one would in their right mind would want to buy one with the cheaper options out there.
Not quite, I don't think it's a market that is nearly as large as the netbook market. Going after the high end market means they probably won't ever aim for the larger market as the products would conflict. This means people who would love to have a Mac netbook are left disappointed that Apple won't cater to them. I think the better move is to satisfy the larger audience.
Apple try hard to move into the lives of families and students with their software products and yet they price themselves right out of those markets with products that satisfy a whole other group of people.
Ideally, they just need to have more products. Sony have high end ultra-portables and the Vaio P seems to be their effort in moving towards the netbook price range.
But you're trying to compare your experience with computer keyboards to a virtual keyboard on a much smaller touch screen phone. I'd suggest comparing it to the keyboards of other, similar devices: BlackBerrys, WinMobile phones, etc. that have physical or virtual keyboards.
I used to have a blackberry, and I can say that typing on it was quite a bit better than the iPhone. I think I just have a preference for physical keys that have a tactile "click" to them. Certainly, the iPhone trumps my old blackberry in just about every way, mind you, but that's just my preference.
There are a number of people I see around with iPhones and I don't see them having to pull their iPhones out of their pockets every time they sit down. Perhaps you're a small child or wear really tight pants? If so, that's your problem.
Me in tight pants would not be a good thing. I've just always wanted something that was comfortable in a front pocket, and haven't found much (I'm still holding out for the Zoolander phone). The iPhone would fit fine in a back pocket, but then you end up sitting on it when you sit down. A phone the size of an iPod nano? perfect, but I don't think anyone wants to start that conversation here.
Thank you so much for the asinine tone. It really makes me want to hear you out.
When you make a ton of assumptions and wrong statements, you should be prepared for that.
Alright, I stand corrected, though most consumers don't have any idea (or interest in) hacking their netbook to run Mac OS X. Windows XP can't compete with Leopard's features, reliability and usability (which I'm sure you're aware of).
Two non sequiturs in one paragraph. You claimed that netbooks booted slowly. I pointed out that that is not the case with either OS X or XP. Now you come back and say, well, they don't know how to hack OS X and XP sucks.
Ok, I should have said many netbooks have pathetic storage because they make use of piddly solid-state drives that are dwarfed by Apple's iPods and iPhones built-in storage.
Define "many." All of the netbook makers have hard drive models. Many netbook models have 160GB options from the factory, which gives them more storage than the Macbook Air. If you want to spend $70 and a few minutes, upgrade to 320GB, since these are standard 2.5" laptop drives, not 1.8". Or go to 500GB for a little over $100, which isn't even possible in an Air owner's wildest dreams. These drives are, of course, 5400rpm, not the "piddly" 4200rpm 120GB drive that the Air ships with. Some newer, higher-end netbooks actually have both an SSD and HD.
That's good that yours does. But from my understanding, most still use cathode tubes. The Air obviously uses a bigger display, but also a higher resolution one, which raises the price tag.
Again, wrong. HP Mini-Note uses LED. As does Dell Mini. And Asus Aspire One. And eeePC. And MSI. That covers all the major players in the netbook market.
I was being a bit facetious, sheesh!
With that said, I could totally see people developing eyestrain from using an 8" to 10" screen and wrist/hand cramps from a micro keyboard.
You mean you can totally assume it. Have you any evidence to back up your assumptions? There are a lot of netbook users out there. I haven't heard of anyone complaining about carpal tunnel syndrome. I switch back and forth between full-size and the slightly undersize keyboard on my netbook without any problems. No cramps at all. I dare say that I would have greater likelihood of getting a cramp from holding an iPhone in my left hand while typing a few hundred words on its tiny keyboard over ten minutes. Eyestrain would come from a small pixel pitch, and the netbooks actually have about the same pitch as the 13" MB displays. Even the iPhone has a smaller pixel pitch. How about the top of the line Dell notebook, with a stunning 1920x1080 resolution in a 16" screen? Want to claim eyestrain on either of those, too?
I was never arguing that the MacBook Air was faster than the MacBook.
The point people are making is that most users don't need Core 2 Duo on the go. In fact, it's no stretch to say most users don't need it, period. Casual users, who comprise the vast majority of the population, don't need a lot of power, ever.
Unless you're from the future, you have no clue what applications of the future will require in terms of performance. Nobody does.
Programmers would have users screaming if they suddenly decided that web browsers must have 2GB of physical RAM and a Core 2 Quad to run on. Again, casual users use applications with system requirements that don't rocket upward over time.
The fact the netbook you posted kind of looks like the Air doesn't mean most netbooks look as good. The MacBook Air's looks are still a selling point because the one you posted is nowhere near as elegant and if I'm not mistaken, it's made out of plastic, not aluminum.
If you're interested in looks alone, that's fine. But that machine is actually in many ways more capable than the Air. It's the MSI X-Slim X320. In some ways, it's not a netbook. It has a dual-core Atom and integrated graphics, but other than that, nothing in common with netbooks. It has the same size screen as the Air, two battery sizes for a rated 5 or 10 hours of battery life, and you might have noticed that it has three USB ports vs. the Air's one, plus an Ethernet port and an SD card reader. It's about the same thickness and weight as the Air for almost half the price. And yes, you are mistaken, it does use aluminum for most of its casing.
As for a 10" Air, I'm all for it. I've tried other netbooks, and I don't have a problem with the keyboard size. Sony has been putting compact Vaios out like this for a while, so a more premium machine with a compact keyboard isn't new. And yeah, you couldn't put it in a pocket, but everytime you make something smaller it inherently gets more portable. After all, this is the logic behind all laptop design, especially the whole point of the air. If we didn't care about the actual size of something that wasn't small enough for a pocket, then we'd walk around with laptops that were 2" thick
I don't think there is a continuum of smallness. There are sweet spots. Pocket size is a sweet spot. Notebooks, which are essentially the size of of a sheet of office paper, or an office folder, are another sweet spot. Thickness matters within this form factor, as does weight. But reducing the form factor to something non-standard doesn't really do anything for you.
Netbooks don't do much for you in terms of size. They sell because they are very cheap. They are small not out of a philosophical or design reason. They are small because small screens are cheap.
The proof is that ultra small notebooks are not a new category, and they never sold well before. They sell well now not because the format suddenly makes sense, but because its the cheapest way to get a portable computer of any kind. A large part of the market is about price, price, price, no matter what. This is why Walmart exists.
Apple has been going in the other direction for some time. Big displays, higher quality, higher performance. They don't even make 17" iMacs anymore, not to mention 15" ones.
Now you can argue that Apple should make cheap machines to get that segment of the market. But Jobs has quite clearly said he's not interested in the people who put price as their #1 priority. He is right. The minute Apple starts doing that, they won't be able to sustain their engineering and software development costs. Price-driven consumers are never satisfied, and there is always a cheaper supplier. They will drive you all the way to the bottom. Look at how PC makers are doing. This is a battle Apple cannot engage in: it cannot win.
To the extent they enter the netbook market, it will be with a different class of device. A device that makes sense on its own, not because of price, and that adds a specific value to buyers.
Not quite, I don't think it's a market that is nearly as large as the netbook market. Going after the high end market means they probably won't ever aim for the larger market as the products would conflict. This means people who would love to have a Mac netbook are left disappointed that Apple won't cater to them. I think the better move is to satisfy the larger audience.
So basically you think that those of us who like the Air should go pound sand, so that Apple can sell crappy plastic junk with tiny screens and shrunken keyboards, because somehow this is the same segment of the market?
These are COMPLETELY different market segments. Portability is pretty much the only feature they have in common. I bought an Air and the netbooks never entered my mind.
Netbooks aren't a hit because they are portable. They are a hit because they are cheap. Yet another ridiculous price point in the long-running race to the bottom that is the PC industry outside of Apple.
Cheap netbooks look and feel like disposable crap. You want something decent in the ultraportable space and you have to go to OQO, for example, which cost around $1K depending on the model.
It's the MSI X-Slim X320. In some ways, it's not a netbook. It has a dual-core Atom and integrated graphics, but other than that, nothing in common with netbooks. It has the same size screen as the Air, two battery sizes for a rated 5 or 10 hours of battery life, and you might have noticed that it has three USB ports vs. the Air's one, plus an Ethernet port and an SD card reader. It's about the same thickness and weight as the Air for almost half the price. And yes, you are mistaken, it does use aluminum for most of its casing.
It's a blatant copy of the Air. My point being, Apple did the design and development work. I value that, and I'm fine with paying for it. If we all bought copies, soon there will be no originals and the industry would be stuck again recycling old formats forever.
I also value OS/X over Windows. The MSI will come with Windows, perhaps Linux also. Windows stinks, and you need to spend money in exchange for no added functionality. Right off the bat you need to buy an anti-virus and renew it every year. If you get Vista Starter, common in cheap machines. you need to upgrade in order to run more than three apps at a time and get rid of the "Starter Edition" watermark.
When MSI actually does some innovation we can talk. Right now, you are basically saying a Rolex knockoff bought on the street is cheaper than the real thing. Well, duh!
Netbooks don't do much for you in terms of size. They sell because they are very cheap. They are small not out of a philosophical or design reason. They are small because small screens are cheap.
The proof is that ultra small notebooks are not a new category, and they never sold well before. They sell well now not because the format suddenly makes sense, but because its the cheapest way to get a portable computer of any kind. A large part of the market is about price, price, price, no matter what. This is why Walmart exists.
To the extent they enter the netbook market, it will be with a different class of device. A device that makes sense on its own, not because of price, and that adds a specific value to buyers.
This is why I bring up the new Vaio P - the price has nothing to do with netbooks - anything in the $800-1200 range is out of that catergory The press has been going nuts over it, and people seem very interested. Will it sell well? Time will tell us, but the initial buzz seems to to prove that people are willing to pay for a machine that has a netbook form factor but with more premium parts (and prices).
Netbooks, and ultraportables, seem to work out well for people all around my city. People seem to want something that's larger than an iPhone, but small enough that you don't need a dedicated laptop bag to carry. Netbooks can be thrown in a purse, or man-purse for that matter, so it doesn't shock me that I see them all over coffee shops. Most people still seem to have a desktop for household tasks, they just want something they can casually browse on, email, etc. This is why I'd like to see a 9"-10" Air. Even if you charged $1000-1100 for it, I'm still sure people would go out and buy it.
When you make a ton of assumptions and wrong statements, you should be prepared for that.
I was ignorant. You were being a douche bag by choice. There's no excuse for being a douche bag, especially to someone you don't know.
Two non sequiturs in one paragraph. You claimed that netbooks booted slowly. I pointed out that that is not the case with either OS X or XP. Now you come back and say, well, they don't know how to hack OS X and XP sucks.
Let's see, who brought up that they could hack their netbook to run Leopard?
I said "I stand corrected." Then I noted that most people don't have the slightest idea how to hack OS X, thus bringing up that you could was pointless.
Windows XP may have around the same boot time, but it doesn't match up to Leopard in features, reliability, etc. That was an aside which I should have made clearer, sorry.
Define "many." All of the netbook makers have hard drive models. Many netbook models have 160GB options from the factory, which gives them more storage than the Macbook Air. If you want to spend $70 and a few minutes, upgrade to 320GB, since these are standard 2.5" laptop drives, not 1.8". Or go to 500GB for a little over $100, which isn't even possible in an Air owner's wildest dreams. These drives are, of course, 5400rpm, not the "piddly" 4200rpm 120GB drive that the Air ships with. Some newer, higher-end netbooks actually have both an SSD and HD.
Hmm, maybe I am a bit behind the times.
Again, wrong. HP Mini-Note uses LED. As does Dell Mini. And Asus Aspire One. And eeePC. And MSI. That covers all the major players in the netbook market.
Now, yes. What about the timeframe I'm talking about above?
You mean you can totally assume it.
No, I can see people getting eyestrain from using tiny screens for long periods of time. I can see people getting cramped hands from using keyboards that are smaller than stand, full-size keyboards. I'll add I can also see people making more typing errors thanks to the tiny, poorly spaced out keys.
Have you any evidence to back up your assumptions?
Oh, I need evidence for logical conjectures?
There are a lot of netbook users out there.
Sorry, that's not true. Netbooks haven't been around that long, nor have they gained any real popularity until recently. Netbooks represent a miniscule niche that's eating into similarly priced full-size laptops.
I haven't heard of anyone complaining about carpal tunnel syndrome.
I already said I was being facetious.
I switch back and forth between full-size and the slightly undersize keyboard on my netbook without any problems. No cramps at all.
I don't think I need to tell you this but...you are only one person.
I dare say that I would have greater likelihood of getting a cramp from holding an iPhone in my left hand while typing a few hundred words on its tiny keyboard over ten minutes.
The iPhone isn't marketed nor is it designed to be a full-on computer. It's actually meant to sync with a computer.
Eyestrain would come from a small pixel pitch, and the netbooks actually have about the same pitch as the 13" MB displays. Even the iPhone has a smaller pixel pitch. How about the top of the line Dell notebook, with a stunning 1920x1080 resolution in a 16" screen? Want to claim eyestrain on either of those, too?
An 8" to 10" display with ~1024x768 resolution has about the same pixel pitch as a 1440x900 13.3" MacBook Air (or MacBook) display?
If Dell has a laptop with a display of that size at that resolution, yeah, that could potentially result in eyestrain as well.
The point people are making is that most users don't need Core 2 Duo on the go. In fact, it's no stretch to say most users don't need it, period. Casual users, who comprise the vast majority of the population, don't need a lot of power, ever.
Did you see Apple's Macworld keynote last week where it was noted Macs are selling over twice as fast as the rest of the industry? How do you explain that?
Obviously not everyone needs that much performance, but many obviously see something worthwhile in a machine that can do more than just the basics.
If you're interested in looks alone, that's fine.
I'm not. I was responding to Marvin's very specific comment about looks:
Yes it looks very similar to a MBA but now it's not a selling point for the MBA. It is also portable.
And yes, you are mistaken, it does use aluminum for most of its casing.
Obviously if it's not entirely aluminum then I'm not entirely mistaken, am I?