Have you considered the possibility that moving the Mini further downmarket with the Atom/Ion just might allow Apple to bring back the $1299. price point on the Pro line?
Hell I'd love to see the Mac Pro start at $1499 again for a single socket Core i7 model. Smaller case with dual drives.
I'd love the Mac mini to offer a $399 Core2 Duo model without optical drive, 4GB of RAM. The $599 model would include an Apple mouse/KB, faster proc and Superdrive and more standard memory.
The iMac needs something to wow consumers. It's a fantastic shape (I personally don't mind the AIO form factor) but it needs something that neither the mini nor Mac Pro has. If I'm Apple maybe I take a step at adding TV features with a tuner built in. I know it sounds silly but think of it as a TV that parents could actually control its usage via parental controls. Not a bad idea.
Apple can either use the ION for the Apple TV or move it to a SoC ARM design.
Hell I'd love to see the Mac Pro start at $1499 again for a single socket Core i7 model. Smaller case with dual drives.
I'd love the Mac mini to offer a $399 Core2 Duo model without optical drive, 4GB of RAM. The $599 model would include an Apple mouse/KB, faster proc and Superdrive and more standard memory.
The iMac needs something to wow consumers. It's a fantastic shape (I personally don't mind the AIO form factor) but it needs something that neither the mini nor Mac Pro has. If I'm Apple maybe I take a step at adding TV features with a tuner built in. I know it sounds silly but think of it as a TV that parents could actually control its usage via parental controls. Not a bad idea.
Apple can either use the ION for the Apple TV or move it to a SoC ARM design.
Well, if they put in a tuner, it would have to be ATSC, and it would pretty much require an external antenna. I can't see Apple making a computer that requires an external antenna for its differentiating functionality. Unless they can cook up some really clever case mounted tech.
Cable card, maybe? Although then folks could bitch about how the "actual" cost of the iMac includes the monthly cable bill, so......
Also, 4 GB of ram for the base model Mini and up from there? You must surely be dreaming.
Well, if they put in a tuner, it would have to be ATSC, and it would pretty much require an external antenna. I can't see Apple making a computer that requires an external antenna for its differentiating functionality. Unless they can cook up some really clever case mounted tech.
Cable card, maybe? Although then folks could bitch about how the "actual" cost of the iMac includes the monthly cable bill, so......
Also, 4 GB of ram for the base model Mini and up from there? You must surely be dreaming.
Yeah the antenna could be an ugly situation but then again Apple loves to show how small the mini is and fails to show the external PS . No I meant 4GB RAM capacity over 2 slots. Sorry in a rush and didn't clarify myself well. Honestly I think all new Macs will support 4GB of RAM but have to make sure that I articulate that.
Yeah the antenna could be an ugly situation but then again Apple loves to show how small the mini is and fails to show the external PS . No I meant 4GB RAM capacity over 2 slots. Sorry in a rush and didn't clarify myself well. Honestly I think all new Macs will support 4GB of RAM but have to make sure that I articulate that.
Oh, right, of course, that would make sense and I hope Apple does that.
Maybe if Apple could figure out how to make and sell an HD OTA antenna that was a small aluminum monolith they would put a tuner in Mini.
Well, if they put in a tuner, it would have to be ATSC, and it would pretty much require an external antenna. I can't see Apple making a computer that requires an external antenna for its differentiating functionality. Unless they can cook up some really clever case mounted tech.
Cable card, maybe? Although then folks could bitch about how the "actual" cost of the iMac includes the monthly cable bill, so......
Also, 4 GB of ram for the base model Mini and up from there? You must surely be dreaming.
Cable card will have to be OCAP / tru2way and apple likely will also be foreced to use the cable co software / gui.
To everyone talking about the AppleTV not playing all your media files then just google 'XBMC'
No hack required, no box opening, no SSH required. Just download a file, stick it on a USB stick and hey presto a media player that can be launched from the AppleTV's menu and plays everything. It even catalogues your whole media library and downloads all information from IMDB and has a brilliant interface.
It turns the AppleTV into the best media center money can buy.
Cable card will have to be OCAP / tru2way and apple likely will also be foreced to use the cable co software / gui.
Anyone who suggests that Apple add a tuner to the AppleTV or the mini should really looking into what a mess the cable card/tru2way situation is. Tru2way is the new standard, but for how long? How long have cable cards been around and they are still pretty flaky. And what's to prevent the cable industry from scrapping tru2way in a couple of years and coming up with a whole new standard? And there aren't enough people who get by on an antenna to justify the expense of adding a broadcast-only tuner. Something like 90% of US households have cable or satellite (and BTW, as far as I know, there is no way to use any 3rd party device to tune in HD satellite, cable card support or not).
I just don't see Apple wanting to play in that sandbox until things mature a bit and they have a sense of exactly what software they'd have to allow the cable company install on your device. Personally, I wouldn't ever want Comcast installing anything on my computer! So the whole tuner option is best left to 3rd party add-ons like El Gato, not as a built-in feature.
I just don't see Apple wanting to play in that sandbox until things mature a bit and they have a sense of exactly what software they'd have to allow the cable company install on your device. Personally, I wouldn't ever want Comcast installing anything on my computer! So the whole tuner option is best left to 3rd party add-ons like El Gato, not as a built-in feature.
not only that tivo is working on a new HD DVR for direct tv, there software on Comcast cables boxes, and there own 2way cable DVR.
If I remember correctly, newer versions of MacOS X will try to "offload" its graphics processing to the GPU--since the nVidia GeForce 9400M GPU is pretty powerful to start with, that means you don't need an expensive CPU for decently fast performance.
Since with a Mac Mini you want minimal power draw, with the GeForce 9400M GPU on-board, Apple can use the Lincroft variant Atom CPU coming later this year so it can stlll be able to run MacOS X 10.6 at reasonably fast speeds.
Since with a Mac Mini you want minimal power draw, with the GeForce 9400M GPU on-board, Apple can use the Lincroft variant Atom CPU coming later this year so it can stlll be able to run MacOS X 10.6 at reasonably fast speeds.
The time to panick is when real hardware ships. Even then I wouldn't worry to much as I've got this idea in my head that we are about to see a pretty major change in Apples line up. I suspect that if this is true we will see a Mac Nano along side the Mac Mini.
The Nano would have a dual personality as both a mac and as an Apple TV. In this implementation ATOM would be an ideal chip. Mean while the Mini becomes an i7 machine and expands in size slightly. The reality is the Nano could be extremely small in size, maybe half as thin as the current machine and still easily handle HD video.
Quote:
If I remember correctly, newer versions of MacOS X will try to "offload" its graphics processing to the GPU--since the nVidia GeForce 9400M GPU is pretty powerful to start with, that means you don't need an expensive CPU for decently fast performance.
The above is a misunderstanding as computers have been off loading graphics processing to the GPU for years. What is coming is OpenCL which is a way to leverage the GPU for non graphical processing. The problem here is that the GPU computational units are optimized for certain types code and can not effectively accelerate all code. The gains from OpenCL and more general use of the GPU will be dependant on the app this highly variable.
So ATOMs in order, low performance nature, will be an issue for some. Some should actually be highlighted because for many it could be an OK machine. Especially if this becomes Apples very low cost entry level machine.
Quote:
Since with a Mac Mini you want minimal power draw, with the GeForce 9400M GPU on-board, Apple can use the Lincroft variant Atom CPU coming later this year so it can stlll be able to run MacOS X 10.6 at reasonably fast speeds.
For many purposes low power draw can be very important. This is where ATOM wins big. If Apple gives us an extremely low power Nano Mac then it is easier to market a faster Mini that has a higher power i7 in it.
1) There is no way in hell the Mini will go from a standard-voltage >2Ghz Core 2 Duo to an atom, even a dual-core Atom. There is no legitimate reason to do this, as these chips are primarily meant for very-low-price, low-power laptops.
- The Mini does not have the power usage constraints of a laptop running on a small battery
- The Mini does not have a problem with heat as it is not even running lower clocked low-voltage chips...
- The Mini is an Apple/premium product which is not as sensitive to pricing as a bargain-basement netbook or "net-top".
2) Although it would make sense for Apple to just slot in the Atom platform for the AppleTV given it already is running on a legacy Intel platform, they could easily move the ATV to a low-power, low-heat ARM platform since they now have OSX ported to ARM. A dual-core ARM11 MP or single-core ARM Cortex-A8 processor core coupled with a DSP/dedicated video decode engine on a system-on-a-chip can easily run the AppleTV, whether it stays 720P or finally goes to 1080P. There are numerous production SoCs in the marketplace from Samsung, T.I., Qualcomm, etc... Even Nvidia's Tegra chip would work fine for the AppleTV. With this setup, the thing could be TINY, basically the size of a box of mints with no fan required!
1) There is no way in hell the Mini will go from a standard-voltage >2Ghz Core 2 Duo to an atom, even a dual-core Atom. There is no legitimate reason to do this, as these chips are primarily meant for very-low-price, low-power laptops.
- The Mini does not have the power usage constraints of a laptop running on a small battery
- The Mini does not have a problem with heat as it is not even running lower clocked low-voltage chips...
- The Mini is an Apple/premium product which is not as sensitive to pricing as a bargain-basement netbook or "net-top".
2) Although it would make sense for Apple to just slot in the Atom platform for the AppleTV given it already is running on a legacy Intel platform, they could easily move the ATV to a low-power, low-heat ARM platform since they now have OSX ported to ARM. A dual-core ARM11 MP or single-core ARM Cortex-A8 processor core coupled with a DSP/dedicated video decode engine on a system-on-a-chip can easily run the AppleTV, whether it stays 720P or finally goes to 1080P. There are numerous production SoCs in the marketplace from Samsung, T.I., Qualcomm, etc... Even Nvidia's Tegra chip would work fine for the AppleTV. With this setup, the thing could be TINY, basically the size of a box of mints with no fan required!
Comments
Have you considered the possibility that moving the Mini further downmarket with the Atom/Ion just might allow Apple to bring back the $1299. price point on the Pro line?
Hell I'd love to see the Mac Pro start at $1499 again for a single socket Core i7 model. Smaller case with dual drives.
I'd love the Mac mini to offer a $399 Core2 Duo model without optical drive, 4GB of RAM. The $599 model would include an Apple mouse/KB, faster proc and Superdrive and more standard memory.
The iMac needs something to wow consumers. It's a fantastic shape (I personally don't mind the AIO form factor) but it needs something that neither the mini nor Mac Pro has. If I'm Apple maybe I take a step at adding TV features with a tuner built in. I know it sounds silly but think of it as a TV that parents could actually control its usage via parental controls. Not a bad idea.
Apple can either use the ION for the Apple TV or move it to a SoC ARM design.
Hell I'd love to see the Mac Pro start at $1499 again for a single socket Core i7 model. Smaller case with dual drives.
I'd love the Mac mini to offer a $399 Core2 Duo model without optical drive, 4GB of RAM. The $599 model would include an Apple mouse/KB, faster proc and Superdrive and more standard memory.
The iMac needs something to wow consumers. It's a fantastic shape (I personally don't mind the AIO form factor) but it needs something that neither the mini nor Mac Pro has. If I'm Apple maybe I take a step at adding TV features with a tuner built in. I know it sounds silly but think of it as a TV that parents could actually control its usage via parental controls. Not a bad idea.
Apple can either use the ION for the Apple TV or move it to a SoC ARM design.
Well, if they put in a tuner, it would have to be ATSC, and it would pretty much require an external antenna. I can't see Apple making a computer that requires an external antenna for its differentiating functionality. Unless they can cook up some really clever case mounted tech.
Cable card, maybe? Although then folks could bitch about how the "actual" cost of the iMac includes the monthly cable bill, so......
Also, 4 GB of ram for the base model Mini and up from there? You must surely be dreaming.
Well, if they put in a tuner, it would have to be ATSC, and it would pretty much require an external antenna. I can't see Apple making a computer that requires an external antenna for its differentiating functionality. Unless they can cook up some really clever case mounted tech.
Cable card, maybe? Although then folks could bitch about how the "actual" cost of the iMac includes the monthly cable bill, so......
Also, 4 GB of ram for the base model Mini and up from there? You must surely be dreaming.
Yeah the antenna could be an ugly situation but then again Apple loves to show how small the mini is and fails to show the external PS . No I meant 4GB RAM capacity over 2 slots. Sorry in a rush and didn't clarify myself well. Honestly I think all new Macs will support 4GB of RAM but have to make sure that I articulate that.
Yeah the antenna could be an ugly situation but then again Apple loves to show how small the mini is and fails to show the external PS . No I meant 4GB RAM capacity over 2 slots. Sorry in a rush and didn't clarify myself well. Honestly I think all new Macs will support 4GB of RAM but have to make sure that I articulate that.
Oh, right, of course, that would make sense and I hope Apple does that.
Maybe if Apple could figure out how to make and sell an HD OTA antenna that was a small aluminum monolith they would put a tuner in Mini.
We should bombard Apple with emails just in case this is true. There is still time to change their minds.
Apple has been known to dissapoint us many times before so who knows, it could be true.
I send them one every day now. So far I have not written anything very angry, but it doesn't matter. Nobody reads them.
They can so easily make a Mac Mini with the MacBook or 15" MacBook Pro hardware inside, set it at $1299 and I would buy one in an instant.
If that would satisfy you, why not buy a MacBook and use it in closed-lid mode. I've considered that myself but the price is too high.
Well, if they put in a tuner, it would have to be ATSC, and it would pretty much require an external antenna. I can't see Apple making a computer that requires an external antenna for its differentiating functionality. Unless they can cook up some really clever case mounted tech.
Cable card, maybe? Although then folks could bitch about how the "actual" cost of the iMac includes the monthly cable bill, so......
Also, 4 GB of ram for the base model Mini and up from there? You must surely be dreaming.
Cable card will have to be OCAP / tru2way and apple likely will also be foreced to use the cable co software / gui.
No hack required, no box opening, no SSH required. Just download a file, stick it on a USB stick and hey presto a media player that can be launched from the AppleTV's menu and plays everything. It even catalogues your whole media library and downloads all information from IMDB and has a brilliant interface.
It turns the AppleTV into the best media center money can buy.
Cable card will have to be OCAP / tru2way and apple likely will also be foreced to use the cable co software / gui.
Anyone who suggests that Apple add a tuner to the AppleTV or the mini should really looking into what a mess the cable card/tru2way situation is. Tru2way is the new standard, but for how long? How long have cable cards been around and they are still pretty flaky. And what's to prevent the cable industry from scrapping tru2way in a couple of years and coming up with a whole new standard? And there aren't enough people who get by on an antenna to justify the expense of adding a broadcast-only tuner. Something like 90% of US households have cable or satellite (and BTW, as far as I know, there is no way to use any 3rd party device to tune in HD satellite, cable card support or not).
I just don't see Apple wanting to play in that sandbox until things mature a bit and they have a sense of exactly what software they'd have to allow the cable company install on your device. Personally, I wouldn't ever want Comcast installing anything on my computer! So the whole tuner option is best left to 3rd party add-ons like El Gato, not as a built-in feature.
I just don't see Apple wanting to play in that sandbox until things mature a bit and they have a sense of exactly what software they'd have to allow the cable company install on your device. Personally, I wouldn't ever want Comcast installing anything on my computer! So the whole tuner option is best left to 3rd party add-ons like El Gato, not as a built-in feature.
not only that tivo is working on a new HD DVR for direct tv, there software on Comcast cables boxes, and there own 2way cable DVR.
If I remember correctly, newer versions of MacOS X will try to "offload" its graphics processing to the GPU--since the nVidia GeForce 9400M GPU is pretty powerful to start with, that means you don't need an expensive CPU for decently fast performance.
Since with a Mac Mini you want minimal power draw, with the GeForce 9400M GPU on-board, Apple can use the Lincroft variant Atom CPU coming later this year so it can stlll be able to run MacOS X 10.6 at reasonably fast speeds.
I'd wish people will stop panicking over this.
Since with a Mac Mini you want minimal power draw, with the GeForce 9400M GPU on-board, Apple can use the Lincroft variant Atom CPU coming later this year so it can stlll be able to run MacOS X 10.6 at reasonably fast speeds.
Later this year?!!!!!! OH MY GOD!
I'd wish people will stop panicking over this.
The time to panick is when real hardware ships. Even then I wouldn't worry to much as I've got this idea in my head that we are about to see a pretty major change in Apples line up. I suspect that if this is true we will see a Mac Nano along side the Mac Mini.
The Nano would have a dual personality as both a mac and as an Apple TV. In this implementation ATOM would be an ideal chip. Mean while the Mini becomes an i7 machine and expands in size slightly. The reality is the Nano could be extremely small in size, maybe half as thin as the current machine and still easily handle HD video.
If I remember correctly, newer versions of MacOS X will try to "offload" its graphics processing to the GPU--since the nVidia GeForce 9400M GPU is pretty powerful to start with, that means you don't need an expensive CPU for decently fast performance.
The above is a misunderstanding as computers have been off loading graphics processing to the GPU for years. What is coming is OpenCL which is a way to leverage the GPU for non graphical processing. The problem here is that the GPU computational units are optimized for certain types code and can not effectively accelerate all code. The gains from OpenCL and more general use of the GPU will be dependant on the app this highly variable.
So ATOMs in order, low performance nature, will be an issue for some. Some should actually be highlighted because for many it could be an OK machine. Especially if this becomes Apples very low cost entry level machine.
Since with a Mac Mini you want minimal power draw, with the GeForce 9400M GPU on-board, Apple can use the Lincroft variant Atom CPU coming later this year so it can stlll be able to run MacOS X 10.6 at reasonably fast speeds.
For many purposes low power draw can be very important. This is where ATOM wins big. If Apple gives us an extremely low power Nano Mac then it is easier to market a faster Mini that has a higher power i7 in it.
Dave
Okay, jumping past three pages of posts?
Crazy idea?
What if Apple uses two (2) dual core Atom CPUs??!?
Flame retardant underwear? Check?
;^p
the cpu will not work like that.
Don't forget Steve Jobs' quote: "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." Should we now expect one?
Steve is never one to hold his word. Though I see Apple's entry level Mac mini coming in at $599.
Atom is a no go at that price point.
I've pretty much decided to bump my mini from 1.66 to 2.1Ghz C2D. My next new computer will be a Quad iMac.
I think that Apple wants to downplay the significance of the mini but it's a great little computer.
- The Mini does not have the power usage constraints of a laptop running on a small battery
- The Mini does not have a problem with heat as it is not even running lower clocked low-voltage chips...
- The Mini is an Apple/premium product which is not as sensitive to pricing as a bargain-basement netbook or "net-top".
2) Although it would make sense for Apple to just slot in the Atom platform for the AppleTV given it already is running on a legacy Intel platform, they could easily move the ATV to a low-power, low-heat ARM platform since they now have OSX ported to ARM. A dual-core ARM11 MP or single-core ARM Cortex-A8 processor core coupled with a DSP/dedicated video decode engine on a system-on-a-chip can easily run the AppleTV, whether it stays 720P or finally goes to 1080P. There are numerous production SoCs in the marketplace from Samsung, T.I., Qualcomm, etc... Even Nvidia's Tegra chip would work fine for the AppleTV. With this setup, the thing could be TINY, basically the size of a box of mints with no fan required!
Don't forget Steve Jobs' quote: "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." Should we now expect one?
If the economy is hurting Apple's sales (and it must be), we'll see how cheap they're willing to sell a Mac.
1) There is no way in hell the Mini will go from a standard-voltage >2Ghz Core 2 Duo to an atom, even a dual-core Atom. There is no legitimate reason to do this, as these chips are primarily meant for very-low-price, low-power laptops.
- The Mini does not have the power usage constraints of a laptop running on a small battery
- The Mini does not have a problem with heat as it is not even running lower clocked low-voltage chips...
- The Mini is an Apple/premium product which is not as sensitive to pricing as a bargain-basement netbook or "net-top".
2) Although it would make sense for Apple to just slot in the Atom platform for the AppleTV given it already is running on a legacy Intel platform, they could easily move the ATV to a low-power, low-heat ARM platform since they now have OSX ported to ARM. A dual-core ARM11 MP or single-core ARM Cortex-A8 processor core coupled with a DSP/dedicated video decode engine on a system-on-a-chip can easily run the AppleTV, whether it stays 720P or finally goes to 1080P. There are numerous production SoCs in the marketplace from Samsung, T.I., Qualcomm, etc... Even Nvidia's Tegra chip would work fine for the AppleTV. With this setup, the thing could be TINY, basically the size of a box of mints with no fan required!
You're correct.
- The Mini does not have the power usage constraints of a laptop running on a small battery
- The Mini does not have a problem with heat as it is not even running lower clocked low-voltage chips...
The iMac doesn't have these problems either but it gets lower powered laptop parts nonetheless.
- The Mini is an Apple/premium product which is not as sensitive to pricing as a bargain-basement netbook or "net-top".
You may have had a point a couple years ago, but look at the Mini now. There's nothing premium about it.
If Apple thinks the current Mini pricing is okay, they've lost their minds. An Ion Mini would not be deviating from the crazy path they're on.