This might make sense if Dell or HP did it, though their high end offerings are expensive too.
Microsoft offers various stripped and crippled versions of their OS; Home Basic Edition ($199.95), Home Premium Edition ($259.95), Business ($299.95) and Ultimate ($319.95).
Apple just sells one full version ($129.00).
MS may be setting themselves up again....
Those prices are presented in a highly misleading light.
If somebody is going into a store to purchase a retail boxed copy of Windows Vista, then it can only be for a few reasons:
1) They have a totally blank PC that has never had a Windows operating system on it before. I'd postulate that comprises a statistically insignificant number of people, since most new big-brand PCs would have come with an OEM copy of Windows already, and DIYers in-the-know would have purchased an OEM edition of Vista to install on it, or, more likely probably wouldn't have chosen Windows as their operating system in the first place. (None of the OEM editions are more expensive than the corresponding retail upgrade editions, and in most cases, are quite a bit cheaper than the retail upgrade editions.)
2) They are upgrading a PC running a version of Windows prior to Windows 2000, and thus it's ineligible for the upgrade editions. This would also be a relatively insignificant demographic, because those PCs likely have hardware that's old enough now that they wouldn't deliver satisfying performance under Windows Vista anyway.
3) They are upgrading a PC running Windows 2000 or Windows XP. Those people would purchase the upgrade edition of Windows Vista with different prices than you listed. This category would comprise the vast majority of users who would be interested in purchasing a retail box of Windows Vista. And yes, it is possible to perform a "clean" install, or to transition from the 32-bit edition of the former operating system to the 64-bit edition of the new operating system, using an upgrade edition disc and license - it just requires you to prove the existence of the prior legitimate installation for 2000 or XP before it starts wiping the drive.
How's your Silverstone? I just got a 500W for my AMD 7750 BE and ATI 4830 build... Went AMD instead of Intel because for dualcore much less expensive in terms of CPU and motherboards! Don't need a quadcore because my bottleneck will be GPU especially when I get my 20" somewhere down the line this year. And just regular 2GB 800mhz works fine for my gaming needs at 1280x1024... In Windows XP, Vista was giving a lot of install/driver problems, and I didn't want to shell out more $$$ for Vista 64bit with Windows 7 around the corner. That 4870 is nice... 4890 would be nicer when it comes out...?
Very happy with that Silverstone! Whisper quiet, and I really like those modular cables.
4870 - you got me there! I've quoted that card just to make my point (it is about NZ$500 here) but I haven't purchased it yet. I'm still using my nVidia 8800GT. Reason is, as you mentioned - I'm also waiting to see what is new part from ATI going to look like. That is why I still haven't got my 24" monitor yet as well.
Ah, Vista. My previous system was AMD 64 X2 4200+ on nForce4 Ultra motherboard. With that system I've moved from XP to Vista Business 32-bit after SP1 for Vista was released. My experience with Vista on that system was great - only thing I could not make working was almost 10 years old Microtek scanner. Last driver for that poor thing was for Windows 2000, though it was working OK on XP as well. I can't really blame MS - or even Microtek - for not supporting such old part any more. Everything else - including Creative X-Fi audio card, Logitech steering wheel etc. I was able to download stable driver for Vista. New system has Vista Ultimate 64 and again, didn't have problem with anything. Maybe it was just my good luck... or simple fact I did select parts from manufacturers with good reputation.
I didn't purchase Vista Ultimate as well (though I did quote regular OEM price in my example) - I'm "blessed" to be working for company that is Microsoft Gold Partner, and on one of MS presentations I've got copy of Ultimate for free. Otherwise I'd just decommission Vista 32 from my previous system and install it on new box until W7 comes out; buying it at this moment really would not make much sense in my case, except if MS would not promise some kind of almost free upgrade to W7.
I was frustrated with Dell/HP because just to have a 4830 series ATI and a better power supply, you end up paying lots more for their "XPS" or "Studio" versions... And HP don't even have any decent mid-range gaming PCs! Much cheaper to assemble yourself or have your local shop put together parts for you.
(I'm not in the US so not so much easily accessible "beige-box" online configuration companies)
True that. But the way I see it, it is an additional bonus for being PC/Windows user - you do have an option. Even for someone who is not into hardware, it does not require much time or effort to check site like anandtech.com, check one of their seasonal buyers guides, write down recommended parts, go to shop and ask for that configuration to be built for you. Sure it is a bit more effort than clicking on preconfigured model on Dell/HP site, but at least you end up knowing exactly what is in your box - and you likely save some money without compromising on parts quality (in fact likely ending with better quality).
Of course price is debatable. I am representing my point of view, which you might not share.
Then again, for me your point is pure cliché.
Insisting that all PCs are lower built quality than Macs, that is. True you can buy some cheap systems (or components if you prefer to build yourself) but you can also get high-end parts and still save significant money compared to Macs.
Since I've just built my new system, let me give you an example. Prices are in New Zealand Dollars, and, though I did build it myself, I could have it built in the shop I've purchased parts from for free (so I didn't save anything regarding that):
CPU: Intel C2Q 9550 2.83GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA EP45 - UD3R
RAM: 8GB G-Skill Black Edition DDR2 900 4-4-4-12
HDD: WD 1TB
Power: Silverstone Decathlon 650W modular
Case: Lian-Li PC-7S aluminium
Monitor: Samsung 24" (still choosing it)
Graphics: HT ATI Radeon 4870 1GB
OS: Vista Ultimate 64 OEM (already had it but for fair compare)
If you are interested in hardware, you'll find out that - quality wise - all parts are high end. I actually sacrificed going Intel i7/X58 platform for getting top quality parts for C2Q/P45 platform.
All together, price will be (once I have my monitor) between NZ$3000 and 3100.
Here in NZ, 24" iMac with C2D 2.93/4GB/640GB/GT120 would cost me NZ$4000 (official Apple price - could be a bit cheaper on street, not sure). And it is still way bellow specs wise.
Entry Mac Pro with single 2.66GHz Xeon/3GB/650GB/GT120 would cost me NZ$5600. I think my system can hold it's ground against it - and then some.
Back to the original question - quality. What do we really know about Mac quality - regarding components? For example, I know that my motherboard comes with all solid state caps, 2oz copper layer (compared to common 1oz - for better heat distribution and cooling), ferrite core chokes, lower resistance MOSFETS, heatpipe cooler design for chipset etc. But what do we know about motherboards in iMacs? Who is behind Apple's power supplies and what are characteristics? RAM chips manufacturer..?
All I can see is perceived quality... but from what I could read about various problems different Mac models and generations have/had, I'm not convinced that perceived quality really translates in actual quality.
At the end of a day, I'm still interested in having one OS X machine in my household, but I'm finding harder and harder to justify what I see as Apple's attempt to use great OS to sell me overpriced (and often outdated) hardware with good looks but unknown and questionable components quality. I would be very happy if Apple would explain - in details - why are their configurations so much more expensive than PC. Maybe I would change my position on pricing issue. But i doubt that. I don't believe that parts inside Apple desktops (primarily) and notebooks are anything out of ordinary. No magic there. If there was any, I'm sure Apple would talk about that much more as an argument to justify pricing.
And just one more short remark (true story, I swear); Last year I got beautiful, shiny all-aluminium external 2.5" CollerMaster X-Craft HDD enclosure, with great carry case, polishing cloth, manual... for NZ$50 (at the time); one of best looking enclosures I have seen (and exact reason why I purchased it impulsively).
All fine... except my 160GB WD HDD had all kind of problems with enclosure. Quick search showed a lot of people experiencing various problems with different X-craft enclosures. I got darn thing back and got cheap, NZ$15 ICZ enclosure. No polished aluminium, no fancy holster and polishing cloth.
But it works brilliantly.
And you don't always get what you paid for. Sometimes you get great bargain. Other times you might be ripped off.
My point is simply every Mac I ever owned was sold at about 50% of what I paid so the next one was subsidized. The real cost of any depreciating asset has to account for the residual value.
Oh, by the way I should point out for day-to-day stuff and especially for work I can't go by without a MacBook. (MacBook Pro would be nice, but that's another topic... ) ... On my trusty white MacBook Core Duo 3 year warranty (Applecare) runs out in a month's time...!
Luckily no such problem for me 99.99% of our clients are on Windows servers and desktops, so having Mac at work or as my main system at home would actually create plenty of problems for me.
But I'm still interested to have Mac as my 2nd system; notebook, likely. My personal notebook is not used for gaming or work anyway, and for Internet, email, photo editing and reading I should be able to use pretty much anything out there (short of reading Microsoft Reader ebooks which, I think, don't have dedicated reader for any platform but Windows )
My point is simply every Mac I ever owned was sold at about 50% of what I paid so the next one was subsidized. The real cost of any depreciating asset has to account for the residual value.
Weather clearing up in M$ HQ?
Ah. Can we skip on childish stuff like M$, Microcrap and likes, please?
That aside... how often do you sell your Macs in order to keep 50% value?
Ah. Can we skip on childish stuff like M$, Microcrap and likes, please?
That aside... how often do you sell your Macs in order to keep 50% value?
I have never failed to get 50% return on the sale of any mac and I have owned every one since Mac Plus. I upgrade every 2 to three years. Check out e-bay and look how well Apple equipment holds its value. Personally I have never had to use anything than e-mail, I just contact a few people and always get multiple offers (I take first and never get into an auction). In fact past buyers usually call once a year to see if i am about to upgrade.
M$ is crap why skip it? No eye rolling avoidance required. I use it, XP Pro, Vista and a tester for 7. Total unadulterated crap. I doubt M$ will be in business in a decade.
I have never failed to get 50% return on the sale of any mac and I have owned every one since Mac Plus. I upgrade every 2 to three years. Check out e-bay and look how well Apple equipment holds its value. Personally I have never had to use anything than e-mail, I just contact a few people and always get multiple offers (I take first and never get into an auction). In fact past buyers usually call once a year to see if i am about to upgrade.
Good on you. True I see asking price is high on local trade site, but I don't see too many people biding. Maybe Apple's image is not that strong in NZ in general.
Considering that Apple's new offering is not much better than previous generation, it actually makes sense; major reason for de-valuing used hardware is constant price drop and performance rise. That apparently doesn't happen much in Apple world, which is kind of good for Mac owners, but not for first time buyers.
But that coin has other side - what would be someone's motive to sell, say, his 2 years old iMac 24" for 50% of it's price and get new one..? Is it worthy upgrade..?
My AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.2GHz was around NZ$350 two and a half years ago; today you can get it for NZ$90. I might be able to get 50% of today's price, but anything above would be daydreaming. However, my coin's second side tells me that for NZ$350 today I can get Intel Core 2 Quad 2.33GHz or Core 2 Duo 3GHz... they are both 2 - 3X faster than my old AMD in most games and applications.
Me? I prefer it that way.
Quote:
M$ is crap why skip it? No eye rolling avoidance required. I use it, XP Pro, Vista and a tester for 7. Total unadulterated crap. I doubt M$ will be in business in a decade.
Because it is immature. It is also nonsense.
My 21 year old colleague recently came up with wisecrack question for his Mac friend: "Any new rotten Apples from $teve Job$ gar(b)age?". He thought it was so smart he had to share it with rest of us... so I told him basically the same thing - grow up, mate.
Apple caters to the premium end of the market, not the $400 Dell segment. You assume the entire market reflects YOU. It doesn't.
Does the entire market reflect any Mac user since we are all in the minority? Finally "premium" isn't an excuse to simply gouge or ignore market realities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215
It's pretty well know that half of all mac sales are first-time buyers.
Yes and just recently people were buying large McMansions featuring granite countertops for putting their name to a no down, no doc, negative am loan. Times change and the choice is the change or go extinct. Apple has successfully commoditized the iPod and no one is claiming they are buying crap for having a Nano available in addition to the Touch. No one would be idiotic enough to claim Apple could sell the shuffle for $300 just because they are Apple or "premium."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulfoaf
You are partially right. College kids are not buying MacBook Pros for $2500. They are buying Macbooks for $1000-$1400 in droves. The Macs are more popular with this age group probably than any others. My daughter came to me after using a crappy Toshiba laptop (that cost $1600 and failed in less than 2 years) and asked to get a Mac. We did. She is happy.
I'm glad she was able (with your help) to purchase twice. That isn't an option for everyone. Finally plenty of people would simply implicate Toshiba and not necessarily Windows. Some of those parents are going to take the kid down to Best Buy and see rows of Dell, Asus and other brand 15 inch laptops with very impressive specs for $799-$899. I'm simply advocating Apple attempt to hit price points they have in the past with quality hardware. Apple offered a $999 iMac, a $1500 tower, etc as examples. It isn't a choice between spend $2500 or produce pure crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
I don't thing that it makes any sense to compare Apple's prices with home built PCs.
Regardless of what you think, my entire school district is catered to by a smaller company that builds their own machines and maintains them. The fact that people can put it together themselves has to figure into the equation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
It was home built only because I wanted it that way. I could also select parts on-line, have shop puting them together, installing OS, drivers and updates and have computer delivered to me the next day.
I don't see difference between this or, say, Dell/HP/any on-line configurator..?
BINGO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Price. It's always going to be cheaper to built it yourself.
For towers perhaps, but Apple can offer something unique to justify the dollars spent on their hardware. The G4 tower was unique. The G5/Intel tower could use a refreshing and also Apple should offer a $1500 tower again. The style plus better fan placement and control would justify the extra money.
Why spend $400 for a piece of crap plastic machine with "WINDERS" that runs like WINDERS 95 on Mark McGuiroids when you can SAVE YOUR MONEY for when the economy gets a little better then get a new hotness MacBook or MacBook Pro?
With my assembled PC I and play latest games *NOW* and still have some savings in case things get worse.
OK wait for the ATI 4890X2 then run it with a 1080p 24"... Awww yeah... I'm not touching Vista ... Hopefully windows 7 is out by middle of the year and it has good smooth fast no hassle gaming in Directx10etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
Very happy with that Silverstone! Whisper quiet, and I really like those modular cables.
4870 - you got me there! I've quoted that card just to make my point (it is about NZ$500 here) but I haven't purchased it yet. I'm still using my nVidia 8800GT. Reason is, as you mentioned - I'm also waiting to see what is new part from ATI going to look like. That is why I still haven't got my 24" monitor yet as well.
Ah, Vista. My previous system was AMD 64 X2 4200+ on nForce4 Ultra motherboard. With that system I've moved from XP to Vista Business 32-bit after SP1 for Vista was released. My experience with Vista on that system was great - only thing I could not make working was almost 10 years old Microtek scanner. Last driver for that poor thing was for Windows 2000, though it was working OK on XP as well. I can't really blame MS - or even Microtek - for not supporting such old part any more. Everything else - including Creative X-Fi audio card, Logitech steering wheel etc. I was able to download stable driver for Vista. New system has Vista Ultimate 64 and again, didn't have problem with anything. Maybe it was just my good luck... or simple fact I did select parts from manufacturers with good reputation.
I didn't purchase Vista Ultimate as well (though I did quote regular OEM price in my example) - I'm "blessed" to be working for company that is Microsoft Gold Partner, and on one of MS presentations I've got copy of Ultimate for free. Otherwise I'd just decommission Vista 32 from my previous system and install it on new box until W7 comes out; buying it at this moment really would not make much sense in my case, except if MS would not promise some kind of almost free upgrade to W7.
OK wait for the ATI 4890X2 then run it with a 1080p 24"... Awww yeah... I'm not touching Vista ... Hopefully windows 7 is out by middle of the year and it has good smooth fast no hassle gaming in Directx10etc
Hmm... I don't think W7 will come out before the end of this or beginning of 2010... \
I haven't observed a mass exodus of Mac users to Windows machines as a result of this ad. Nor have I observed people flocking to stores to scoop up cheap Windows computers because "by golly, they really ARE cheaper!"
Probably still too early to tell if there was any effect, but I'm still trying to determine exactly what Microsoft is hoping to accomplish with this ad campaign.
I haven't observed a mass exodus of Mac users to Windows machines as a result of this ad. Nor have I observed people flocking to stores to scoop up cheap Windows computers because "by golly, they really ARE cheaper!"
Probably still too early to tell if there was any effect, but I'm still trying to determine exactly what Microsoft is hoping to accomplish with this ad campaign.
Is it just me?
Trying to piss off the hardware partners that made the PCs she didn't choose maybe?
...Probably still too early to tell if there was any effect, but I'm still trying to determine exactly what Microsoft is hoping to accomplish with this ad campaign.
Is it just me?
Par for the course for any Microsoft ad campaign. Who knows what the hell their advertising achieves, in general. It's all a "throw things on a wall and see what sticks" kind of marketing approach that they have demonstrated these past several years.
Comments
This might make sense if Dell or HP did it, though their high end offerings are expensive too.
Microsoft offers various stripped and crippled versions of their OS; Home Basic Edition ($199.95), Home Premium Edition ($259.95), Business ($299.95) and Ultimate ($319.95).
Apple just sells one full version ($129.00).
MS may be setting themselves up again....
Those prices are presented in a highly misleading light.
If somebody is going into a store to purchase a retail boxed copy of Windows Vista, then it can only be for a few reasons:
1) They have a totally blank PC that has never had a Windows operating system on it before. I'd postulate that comprises a statistically insignificant number of people, since most new big-brand PCs would have come with an OEM copy of Windows already, and DIYers in-the-know would have purchased an OEM edition of Vista to install on it, or, more likely probably wouldn't have chosen Windows as their operating system in the first place. (None of the OEM editions are more expensive than the corresponding retail upgrade editions, and in most cases, are quite a bit cheaper than the retail upgrade editions.)
2) They are upgrading a PC running a version of Windows prior to Windows 2000, and thus it's ineligible for the upgrade editions. This would also be a relatively insignificant demographic, because those PCs likely have hardware that's old enough now that they wouldn't deliver satisfying performance under Windows Vista anyway.
3) They are upgrading a PC running Windows 2000 or Windows XP. Those people would purchase the upgrade edition of Windows Vista with different prices than you listed. This category would comprise the vast majority of users who would be interested in purchasing a retail box of Windows Vista. And yes, it is possible to perform a "clean" install, or to transition from the 32-bit edition of the former operating system to the 64-bit edition of the new operating system, using an upgrade edition disc and license - it just requires you to prove the existence of the prior legitimate installation for 2000 or XP before it starts wiping the drive.
How's your Silverstone? I just got a 500W for my AMD 7750 BE and ATI 4830 build... Went AMD instead of Intel because for dualcore much less expensive in terms of CPU and motherboards! Don't need a quadcore because my bottleneck will be GPU especially when I get my 20" somewhere down the line this year. And just regular 2GB 800mhz works fine for my gaming needs at 1280x1024... In Windows XP, Vista was giving a lot of install/driver problems, and I didn't want to shell out more $$$ for Vista 64bit with Windows 7 around the corner. That 4870 is nice... 4890 would be nicer when it comes out...?
Very happy with that Silverstone! Whisper quiet, and I really like those modular cables.
4870 - you got me there!
Ah, Vista. My previous system was AMD 64 X2 4200+ on nForce4 Ultra motherboard. With that system I've moved from XP to Vista Business 32-bit after SP1 for Vista was released. My experience with Vista on that system was great - only thing I could not make working was almost 10 years old Microtek scanner. Last driver for that poor thing was for Windows 2000, though it was working OK on XP as well. I can't really blame MS - or even Microtek - for not supporting such old part any more. Everything else - including Creative X-Fi audio card, Logitech steering wheel etc. I was able to download stable driver for Vista. New system has Vista Ultimate 64 and again, didn't have problem with anything. Maybe it was just my good luck... or simple fact I did select parts from manufacturers with good reputation.
I didn't purchase Vista Ultimate as well (though I did quote regular OEM price in my example) - I'm "blessed" to be working for company that is Microsoft Gold Partner, and on one of MS presentations I've got copy of Ultimate for free. Otherwise I'd just decommission Vista 32 from my previous system and install it on new box until W7 comes out; buying it at this moment really would not make much sense in my case, except if MS would not promise some kind of almost free upgrade to W7.
I was frustrated with Dell/HP because just to have a 4830 series ATI and a better power supply, you end up paying lots more for their "XPS" or "Studio" versions...
(I'm not in the US so not so much easily accessible "beige-box" online configuration companies)
True that. But the way I see it, it is an additional bonus for being PC/Windows user - you do have an option. Even for someone who is not into hardware, it does not require much time or effort to check site like anandtech.com, check one of their seasonal buyers guides, write down recommended parts, go to shop and ask for that configuration to be built for you. Sure it is a bit more effort than clicking on preconfigured model on Dell/HP site, but at least you end up knowing exactly what is in your box - and you likely save some money without compromising on parts quality (in fact likely ending with better quality).
Of course price is debatable. I am representing my point of view, which you might not share.
Then again, for me your point is pure cliché.
Insisting that all PCs are lower built quality than Macs, that is. True you can buy some cheap systems (or components if you prefer to build yourself) but you can also get high-end parts and still save significant money compared to Macs.
Since I've just built my new system, let me give you an example. Prices are in New Zealand Dollars, and, though I did build it myself, I could have it built in the shop I've purchased parts from for free (so I didn't save anything regarding that):
CPU: Intel C2Q 9550 2.83GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA EP45 - UD3R
RAM: 8GB G-Skill Black Edition DDR2 900 4-4-4-12
HDD: WD 1TB
Power: Silverstone Decathlon 650W modular
Case: Lian-Li PC-7S aluminium
Monitor: Samsung 24" (still choosing it)
Graphics: HT ATI Radeon 4870 1GB
OS: Vista Ultimate 64 OEM (already had it but for fair compare)
If you are interested in hardware, you'll find out that - quality wise - all parts are high end. I actually sacrificed going Intel i7/X58 platform for getting top quality parts for C2Q/P45 platform.
All together, price will be (once I have my monitor) between NZ$3000 and 3100.
Here in NZ, 24" iMac with C2D 2.93/4GB/640GB/GT120 would cost me NZ$4000 (official Apple price - could be a bit cheaper on street, not sure). And it is still way bellow specs wise.
Entry Mac Pro with single 2.66GHz Xeon/3GB/650GB/GT120 would cost me NZ$5600. I think my system can hold it's ground against it - and then some.
Back to the original question - quality. What do we really know about Mac quality - regarding components? For example, I know that my motherboard comes with all solid state caps, 2oz copper layer (compared to common 1oz - for better heat distribution and cooling), ferrite core chokes, lower resistance MOSFETS, heatpipe cooler design for chipset etc. But what do we know about motherboards in iMacs? Who is behind Apple's power supplies and what are characteristics? RAM chips manufacturer..?
All I can see is perceived quality... but from what I could read about various problems different Mac models and generations have/had, I'm not convinced that perceived quality really translates in actual quality.
At the end of a day, I'm still interested in having one OS X machine in my household, but I'm finding harder and harder to justify what I see as Apple's attempt to use great OS to sell me overpriced (and often outdated) hardware with good looks but unknown and questionable components quality. I would be very happy if Apple would explain - in details - why are their configurations so much more expensive than PC. Maybe I would change my position on pricing issue. But i doubt that. I don't believe that parts inside Apple desktops (primarily) and notebooks are anything out of ordinary. No magic there. If there was any, I'm sure Apple would talk about that much more as an argument to justify pricing.
And just one more short remark (true story, I swear); Last year I got beautiful, shiny all-aluminium external 2.5" CollerMaster X-Craft HDD enclosure, with great carry case, polishing cloth, manual... for NZ$50 (at the time); one of best looking enclosures I have seen (and exact reason why I purchased it impulsively).
All fine... except my 160GB WD HDD had all kind of problems with enclosure. Quick search showed a lot of people experiencing various problems with different X-craft enclosures. I got darn thing back and got cheap, NZ$15 ICZ enclosure. No polished aluminium, no fancy holster and polishing cloth.
But it works brilliantly.
And you don't always get what you paid for. Sometimes you get great bargain. Other times you might be ripped off.
My point is simply every Mac I ever owned was sold at about 50% of what I paid so the next one was subsidized. The real cost of any depreciating asset has to account for the residual value.
Weather clearing up in M$ HQ?
Oh, by the way I should point out for day-to-day stuff and especially for work I can't go by without a MacBook. (MacBook Pro would be nice, but that's another topic...
Luckily no such problem for me
But I'm still interested to have Mac as my 2nd system; notebook, likely. My personal notebook is not used for gaming or work anyway, and for Internet, email, photo editing and reading I should be able to use pretty much anything out there (short of reading Microsoft Reader ebooks which, I think, don't have dedicated reader for any platform but Windows
My point is simply every Mac I ever owned was sold at about 50% of what I paid so the next one was subsidized. The real cost of any depreciating asset has to account for the residual value.
Weather clearing up in M$ HQ?
Ah. Can we skip on childish stuff like M$, Microcrap and likes, please?
That aside... how often do you sell your Macs in order to keep 50% value?
Ah. Can we skip on childish stuff like M$, Microcrap and likes, please?
That aside... how often do you sell your Macs in order to keep 50% value?
I have never failed to get 50% return on the sale of any mac and I have owned every one since Mac Plus. I upgrade every 2 to three years. Check out e-bay and look how well Apple equipment holds its value. Personally I have never had to use anything than e-mail, I just contact a few people and always get multiple offers (I take first and never get into an auction). In fact past buyers usually call once a year to see if i am about to upgrade.
M$ is crap why skip it? No eye rolling avoidance required. I use it, XP Pro, Vista and a tester for 7. Total unadulterated crap. I doubt M$ will be in business in a decade.
I have never failed to get 50% return on the sale of any mac and I have owned every one since Mac Plus. I upgrade every 2 to three years. Check out e-bay and look how well Apple equipment holds its value. Personally I have never had to use anything than e-mail, I just contact a few people and always get multiple offers (I take first and never get into an auction). In fact past buyers usually call once a year to see if i am about to upgrade.
Good on you. True I see asking price is high on local trade site, but I don't see too many people biding. Maybe Apple's image is not that strong in NZ in general.
Considering that Apple's new offering is not much better than previous generation, it actually makes sense; major reason for de-valuing used hardware is constant price drop and performance rise. That apparently doesn't happen much in Apple world, which is kind of good for Mac owners, but not for first time buyers.
But that coin has other side - what would be someone's motive to sell, say, his 2 years old iMac 24" for 50% of it's price and get new one..? Is it worthy upgrade..?
My AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.2GHz was around NZ$350 two and a half years ago; today you can get it for NZ$90. I might be able to get 50% of today's price, but anything above would be daydreaming. However, my coin's second side tells me that for NZ$350 today I can get Intel Core 2 Quad 2.33GHz or Core 2 Duo 3GHz... they are both 2 - 3X faster than my old AMD in most games and applications.
Me? I prefer it that way.
M$ is crap why skip it? No eye rolling avoidance required. I use it, XP Pro, Vista and a tester for 7. Total unadulterated crap. I doubt M$ will be in business in a decade.
Because it is immature. It is also nonsense.
My 21 year old colleague recently came up with wisecrack question for his Mac friend: "Any new rotten Apples from $teve Job$ gar(b)age?". He thought it was so smart he had to share it with rest of us... so I told him basically the same thing - grow up, mate.
Apple caters to the premium end of the market, not the $400 Dell segment. You assume the entire market reflects YOU. It doesn't.
Does the entire market reflect any Mac user since we are all in the minority? Finally "premium" isn't an excuse to simply gouge or ignore market realities.
It's pretty well know that half of all mac sales are first-time buyers.
Yes and just recently people were buying large McMansions featuring granite countertops for putting their name to a no down, no doc, negative am loan. Times change and the choice is the change or go extinct. Apple has successfully commoditized the iPod and no one is claiming they are buying crap for having a Nano available in addition to the Touch. No one would be idiotic enough to claim Apple could sell the shuffle for $300 just because they are Apple or "premium."
You are partially right. College kids are not buying MacBook Pros for $2500. They are buying Macbooks for $1000-$1400 in droves. The Macs are more popular with this age group probably than any others. My daughter came to me after using a crappy Toshiba laptop (that cost $1600 and failed in less than 2 years) and asked to get a Mac. We did. She is happy.
I'm glad she was able (with your help) to purchase twice. That isn't an option for everyone. Finally plenty of people would simply implicate Toshiba and not necessarily Windows. Some of those parents are going to take the kid down to Best Buy and see rows of Dell, Asus and other brand 15 inch laptops with very impressive specs for $799-$899. I'm simply advocating Apple attempt to hit price points they have in the past with quality hardware. Apple offered a $999 iMac, a $1500 tower, etc as examples. It isn't a choice between spend $2500 or produce pure crap.
I don't thing that it makes any sense to compare Apple's prices with home built PCs.
Regardless of what you think, my entire school district is catered to by a smaller company that builds their own machines and maintains them. The fact that people can put it together themselves has to figure into the equation.
It was home built only because I wanted it that way. I could also select parts on-line, have shop puting them together, installing OS, drivers and updates and have computer delivered to me the next day.
I don't see difference between this or, say, Dell/HP/any on-line configurator..?
BINGO.
Price. It's always going to be cheaper to built it yourself.
For towers perhaps, but Apple can offer something unique to justify the dollars spent on their hardware. The G4 tower was unique. The G5/Intel tower could use a refreshing and also Apple should offer a $1500 tower again. The style plus better fan placement and control would justify the extra money.
People should be saving their money anyway.
Why spend $400 for a piece of crap plastic machine with "WINDERS" that runs like WINDERS 95 on Mark McGuiroids when you can SAVE YOUR MONEY for when the economy gets a little better then get a new hotness MacBook or MacBook Pro?
With my assembled PC I and play latest games *NOW* and still have some savings in case things get worse.
Very happy with that Silverstone! Whisper quiet, and I really like those modular cables.
4870 - you got me there!
Ah, Vista. My previous system was AMD 64 X2 4200+ on nForce4 Ultra motherboard. With that system I've moved from XP to Vista Business 32-bit after SP1 for Vista was released. My experience with Vista on that system was great - only thing I could not make working was almost 10 years old Microtek scanner. Last driver for that poor thing was for Windows 2000, though it was working OK on XP as well. I can't really blame MS - or even Microtek - for not supporting such old part any more. Everything else - including Creative X-Fi audio card, Logitech steering wheel etc. I was able to download stable driver for Vista. New system has Vista Ultimate 64 and again, didn't have problem with anything. Maybe it was just my good luck... or simple fact I did select parts from manufacturers with good reputation.
I didn't purchase Vista Ultimate as well (though I did quote regular OEM price in my example) - I'm "blessed" to be working for company that is Microsoft Gold Partner, and on one of MS presentations I've got copy of Ultimate for free. Otherwise I'd just decommission Vista 32 from my previous system and install it on new box until W7 comes out; buying it at this moment really would not make much sense in my case, except if MS would not promise some kind of almost free upgrade to W7.
OK wait for the ATI 4890X2 then run it with a 1080p 24"... Awww yeah... I'm not touching Vista ... Hopefully windows 7 is out by middle of the year and it has good smooth fast no hassle gaming in Directx10etc
Hmm... I don't think W7 will come out before the end of this or beginning of 2010...
Probably still too early to tell if there was any effect, but I'm still trying to determine exactly what Microsoft is hoping to accomplish with this ad campaign.
Is it just me?
I haven't observed a mass exodus of Mac users to Windows machines as a result of this ad. Nor have I observed people flocking to stores to scoop up cheap Windows computers because "by golly, they really ARE cheaper!"
Probably still too early to tell if there was any effect, but I'm still trying to determine exactly what Microsoft is hoping to accomplish with this ad campaign.
Is it just me?
Trying to piss off the hardware partners that made the PCs she didn't choose maybe?
Why are so many users always stealing software?
If PC are so cheap.
Why are so many users always stealing software?
Excellent observation.
I'm personally against software/media piracy.
If you take pirated software out of the equation, which solution ends up being cheaper? Macs or Windows PCs?
If PC are so cheap.
Why are so many users always stealing software?
Because PCs are cheap therefore it draws people that are cheap therefore they try to "save" even more by stealing software, games, movies, music.
If you did a survey on ethics I think Mac users come out ahead.
...Probably still too early to tell if there was any effect, but I'm still trying to determine exactly what Microsoft is hoping to accomplish with this ad campaign.
Is it just me?
Par for the course for any Microsoft ad campaign. Who knows what the hell their advertising achieves, in general. It's all a "throw things on a wall and see what sticks" kind of marketing approach that they have demonstrated these past several years.
Is it just me?
No it's not just you. It's baffling.