Jobs active at Apple, still working on tablet-sized device

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  • Reply 61 of 174
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    The tablet is a solution looking for a problem... simply playing media is not compelling enough on it's own.



    I think University might be the place for it. At home and work you have a desk available, so you can have a luxurious fixed device. On the streets you need something very portable, like phone-sized.



    But Uni is the half-way house - it's a *place,* not the street, but at the same time a place where you don't have your own desk. This half-portable/half-fixed environment matches the half-portable/half-fixed nature of the tablet.
  • Reply 62 of 174
    irelandireland Posts: 17,785member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    The tablet is a solution looking for a problem...



    Or to put it another way - Multi-touch is the key-UX-ingredient we never knew we couldn't live without. A bit melodramatic, but you get the picture.
  • Reply 63 of 174
    hobbithobbit Posts: 532member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Yes......I'm talking about flexible display technology.



    And then what?



    How's this going to be useful if the battery isn't flexible as well? You'd have this dongle of a battery hanging off it.



    And even if that's not an issue, what are going to do with a totally flexible display? Roll the tablet up and use it as a straw to drink your lemonade?

    For a foldable hardware design you don't need a flexible display - as Samsung has shown. As long as the seam is very thin.



    And with a flexible display how's multitouch to work? You'd always need a flat surface or the thing would be a 'bumpy ride' for the fingers.



    And rolling it up halfcircle as a big arm bracelet is not a great multitouch idea either as most people lack the third arm. At least my fingers of one hand can't properly span a 10" display. I'd need two hands for that.





    To go all out and re-define mobile computing, which I think Jobs is eager to do, he would almost need to create yet another OS as neither Mac OSX nor the iPhone OS would work well.

    But perhaps under the hood Snow Leopard is being transformed into this third OS - before we know it.

    Yet if any the iPhone OS is better suited than Mac OSX.



    And we still have to see what PA Semi has been up to. Most speculation I've seen about the next iPhone model don't really involve them either, but rather talk about off-the shelf components.
  • Reply 64 of 174
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post


    And then what?



    How's this going to be useful if the battery isn't flexible as well? You'd have this dongle of a battery hanging off it.



    And even if that's not an issue, what are going to do with a totally flexible display? Roll the tablet up and use it as a straw to drink your lemonade?

    For a foldable hardware design you don't need a flexible display - as Samsung has shown. As long as the seam is very thin.



    And with a flexible display how's multitouch to work? You'd always need a flat surface or the thing would be a 'bumpy ride' for the fingers.



    And rolling it up halfcircle as a big arm bracelet is not a great multitouch idea either as most people lack the third arm. At least my fingers of one hand can't properly span a 10" display. I'd need two hands for that.





    To go all out and re-define mobile computing, which I think Jobs is eager to do, he would almost need to create yet another OS as neither Mac OSX nor the iPhone OS would work well.

    But perhaps under the hood Snow Leopard is being transformed into this third OS - before we know it.

    Yet if any the iPhone OS is better suited than Mac OSX.



    And we still have to see what PA Semi has been up to. Most speculation I've seen about the next iPhone model don't really involve them either, but rather talk about off-the shelf components.



    I've been monitoring the companies on the net who are involved in such tech. They have already successfully layered a touch surface to flexible display prototypes.

    No, you will need a flexible display for a foldable mobile tablet type of device design......unless your willing to compromise with two screens pretending to be one.



    And it won't be a "third" OS. Its all the same OS but just modified for mobile devices. Ironically, you may be right though about snow leopard. Is it possible one of snow leopard's purposes is to have OSX be more nimble when modified for use in mobile devices?

    Crap!



    This is frustrating! We need more information. Where are the sleeper agents that appleinsider placed inside Apple HQ? We need some more leaks on this secret project!
  • Reply 65 of 174
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    The tablet is a solution looking for a problem... simply playing media is not compelling enough on it's own.



    No it isn't a reason in and of itself FOR APPLE, however such devices are already on the market so media players do sell.



    But that isn't really the point either as Apple doesn't sell that many single function devices. The ability to play back media (movies?) is just one benchmark point.

    Quote:



    I think University might be the place for it. At home and work you have a desk available, so you can have a luxurious fixed device. On the streets you need something very portable, like phone-sized.



    I'm not sure if you really know much about work as not everyone is tied to a desk. If you have that narrow of an idea as to what work is then I can see why you fail to grasp the potential in one of these tablets.

    Quote:



    But Uni is the half-way house - it's a *place,* not the street, but at the same time a place where you don't have your own desk. This half-portable/half-fixed environment matches the half-portable/half-fixed nature of the tablet.



    A tablet can't really be considered a fixed device. If it is bolted down then it really is a monitor or iMac wanna be.



    Dave
  • Reply 66 of 174
    You know, a bigger version of this keeps popping into my head for some reason:



  • Reply 67 of 174
    enzosenzos Posts: 344member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Where are the sleeper agents that appleinsider placed inside Apple HQ?



    asleep?



    Hey, even if you did find out, it would only spoil the fun and the surprise.



    I can wait...
  • Reply 68 of 174
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post


    And then what?



    How's this going to be useful if the battery isn't flexible as well? You'd have this dongle of a battery hanging off it.



    How about a clam shell device with the battery on one side and the electronics on the other? That is just one possibility. Speaking of flexible batteries there has been research in that direction though I don't think it is ready yet.

    Quote:



    And even if that's not an issue, what are going to do with a totally flexible display? Roll the tablet up and use it as a straw to drink your lemonade?



    Well if you roll it up and then stick in you front pants pocket you might get invited on a date. After all ten inch screens are rather rare.



    Seriously though why not a roll up computer? Not that I think this is Apples direction but the tech will get to that point. I see the greatest probability in a clam shell device that would allow Apple to double the screen size. In an iPhone form factor this comes close to what I want, widen the device a bit and you are right there.

    Quote:

    For a foldable hardware design you don't need a flexible display - as Samsung has shown. As long as the seam is very thin.



    Actually I wouldn't be bothered by such but let's face production line alignment of such would be a bitch. Plus we might as well get all the other advantages of OLEDs.

    Quote:



    And with a flexible display how's multitouch to work? You'd always need a flat surface or the thing would be a 'bumpy ride' for the fingers.



    Just change the sense range of the circuits. Even if you don't do that you still have a backing for most of the screen.

    Quote:



    And rolling it up halfcircle as a big arm bracelet is not a great multitouch idea either as most people lack the third arm. At least my fingers of one hand can't properly span a 10" display. I'd need two hands for that.



    I'm not a big fan of ten inch displays so I can't realistically defend them. In any event you would adapt to the larger display (what ever it's size) just like you adapt to the iPhone display.

    Quote:



    To go all out and re-define mobile computing, which I think Jobs is eager to do, he would almost need to create yet another OS as neither Mac OSX nor the iPhone OS would work well.

    But perhaps under the hood Snow Leopard is being transformed into this third OS - before we know it.

    Yet if any the iPhone OS is better suited than Mac OSX.



    The OS for the iPhone isn't even finished yet so it can morph into whatever is needed. Unfortunately you seem to think of OSes as being cast in iron. They aren't and can evolve into what ever is needed.

    Quote:

    And we still have to see what PA Semi has been up to. Most speculation I've seen about the next iPhone model don't really involve them either, but rather talk about off-the shelf components.



    LA is certainly a wild card here. As to the commercial chips already on the market the do give us points against which we can guess at what Apple will implement. If you follow ARM the potential is very interesting.



    I'd actually would like to know if PA tech is in any of the recent iPod introductions. The new shuffle is a possibility though it seems a waste of engineering talent at PA. It's been a long time since PA was purchased but we have yet to see any thing tied to that team.





    Dave
  • Reply 69 of 174
    hobbithobbit Posts: 532member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    No, you will need a flexible display for a foldable mobile tablet type of device design......unless your willing to compromise with two screens pretending to be one.



    I'm sure you've seen the Samsung OLED demo of a foldable device:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhBDBSWfb5s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtN_TkZUOt4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT9V0IUujFg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SCZvU8sGU



    But this is not a flexible display!

    Instead it is two completely rigid displays - just with a very thin seam.

    Personally I would prefer this solution for two reasons:



    - Wear and tear

    Opening/closing a flexible, bendable display might only work a few hundred or a few thousand times before hair cracks show up killing some pixels.



    - Rigid Surface

    For multitouch to work well you'd want a rigid surface - even when holding the device with one hand while standing in a commuter train. A flexible display might not have a strong enough foundation to work well here. Two rigid, but seamless 'foldable' displays certainly don't have that problem.
  • Reply 70 of 174
    dappledapple Posts: 44member
    If a dock is for a space station, then is a tablet for the enterprise?
  • Reply 71 of 174
    avidfcpavidfcp Posts: 381member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    sigh..



    Some are saying it will be awesome, by that do they mean "look pretty and over priced under powered" or awesome as in huge telomm data contract????



    As a member of the pro userbase, a bit fed up with all this joe next door neighboor consumerisms. At least make it worth our while and not some more bling that's over priced.
  • Reply 72 of 174
    hobbithobbit Posts: 532member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    How about a clam shell device with the battery on one side and the electronics on the other?



    One misconception here is that people think a 'foldable' device requires a flexible, bendable screen.

    It doesn't. As Samsung has shown. And currently I'm in favor of that solution.



    The only kinds of devices that really need a flexible, bendable screen are devices with a curved screen (e.g. on an arm bracelet) or devices where the screen is completely rolled up like a scroll.



    The major issue with 'scrolls' are wear and tear scratches. There are always small sand or dust particles in the air which will get trapped between the rolled up screen layers, scratching top and bottom layers, with the plastic surface getting rubbed 'matte' over time. Every open/close cycle will scratch the rolled up screen a little bit more. It's not great for a rather expensive device with a glossy screen. And we know Apple loves glossy...





    Quote:

    The OS for the iPhone isn't even finished yet so it can morph into whatever is needed. Unfortunately you seem to think of OSes as being cast in iron. They aren't and can evolve into what ever is needed.



    Good point. I guess with 'OS' I meant 'eco system'.



    Whatever OS the tablet will get, people will either want to run their Mac or iPhone applications. It would be very bold by Apple if they'd created yet another 'OS eco system' that would run neither. Like what they did with the iPhone when it originally came out, which had 'OSX' but couldn't run Mac applications.



    Now imagine a tablet with 'OSX' that can run neither Mac nor iPhone applications!

    It's doable for Apple as they could bundle enough useful applications from the start. But I'm not sure developers would like it too much to have to develop for yet another platform totally incompatible. Yet if Apple really found the holy grail of mobile multitouch tablet computing - perhaps starting again is the best solution, forcing developers to develop for yet another new platform.

    But they still won't like it.



    So I think Apple will have to chose between one of their two existing eco systems. And I can totally see them going for ARM CPUs and Mac OSX as long as they offer some recompiling options for Mac applications on ARM CPUs. There will still be conversion work for developers, but if Snow Leopard's libraries are done well and the code conforms to Cocoa, those might be minimal, including not even having to redo screen graphics thanks to Resolution Independence.



    And as the Mac OS currently offers dual binaries (Intel and PPC) there's no reason they couldn't start using tripple binaries (Intel, PPC and ARM).
  • Reply 73 of 174
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post


    Some are saying it will be awesome, by that do they mean "look preety and over priced under powered" or awesome as in huge telomm data contract????



    As a member if pro userbase, a bit fed up with all this joe next Door neighboor consumerisms. At least make it worth our while and not some more bling that's over priced.



    Uh-oh. The troll generator is malfunctioning.
  • Reply 74 of 174
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,807moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    If you think this tablet will be $799 you're kidding yourself.



    I think it should (at most) and could be. Whether it will be, I have no idea.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipism


    I don't see a need for a 1.8" drive, like in the MBA, because I doubt that it would (or could) be so thin that a regular 9.5mm drive wouldn't fit. Sure, a 1.8" HDD has a smaller footprint over a 2.5" HDD drive but there would be sufficient room for the larger drive once you get rid of the optical drive.



    Maybe but the MBA doesn't have an optical drive and is 13" and uses a 1.8" drive. A tablet device will be held a lot so I think they'll aim for super-thin and light.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipism


    I think that some cool features like a back-lit keyboard would help to separate in the minds of shoppers wondering why this netbook-sized device costs 3x as much.



    I don't think it will have a keyboard at all. Apple have patent filing for a touch tablet with no keyboard.



    If they made it with a keyboard, C2D and 10" touch, it won't differentiate itself enough from a Macbook in either price or features.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69


    One big issue is that if Apple where to get access to and implement a true 64 bit Atom then the platform could have a long future. In fact I see 64 bits as the only reason to go with Atom. Otherwise Apple has a huge advantage in ARM built software.



    The disadvantage is it doesn't run OS X. I see what you mean about a bigger ipod touch but in the end, it's about software. The iphone apps are mostly terrible but the ipod touch and iphone are great devices in their own right. Plus the apps already on the mobile platform won't run on a larger screen with a hugely different aspect ratio.



    Although Mac apps aren't built for touch, they will be able to map a lot of the functions over easily just like other PC manufacturers do.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69


    I really hope that Apple can break away from the drive as a module approach and go with storage on a PCI express card like is becoming popular with netbooks.



    They are usually low capacity SSD but definitely small form factor and 32GB might be enough.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69


    Also how does a ten inch device equal a small foot print?



    Snow leopard has a small footprint so it can fit on lower capacity storage.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69


    What really makes my iPhone great is app store and the ability to get and update apps from one source.



    I don't like this. I check out the app store regularly and I almost always leave without any new apps because the offerings don't change much and the quality doesn't improve. You're left trawling through thousands of the most utter garbage apps from developers who want to make money from no effort.



    Then I look at a jailbroken device that gets apps from multiple sources but collected into one app and they can do so much more. Customize the whole interface, multi-task, add application categories, copy/paste, run emulators, get direct access to the iphone for storage over wifi.



    I love my iphone because of what it does on its own - internet everywhere, email, take photos (albeit rubbish quality ones), maps/GPS, great interface for SMS, phoning and great ipod. Beyond that, I have about 7 apps from the store, 4 are games I've completed and don't get used. The other apps I use maybe once week.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69


    I'm not sure where the optical drive even comes into the picture.



    For estimating the cost of the device relative to the base Macbook.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut


    Yes......I'm talking about flexible display technology.



    I don't think they are touch-based. The displays also don't fold right over, they just bend a little so you don't save on form factor. Plus you still need to attach storage, motherboard etc, which are inflexible so you would have to unevenly distribute the weight.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii


    This half-portable/half-fixed environment matches the half-portable/half-fixed nature of the tablet.



    I can see it being used in hospitals too with doctors making the rounds. Maybe this is where Jobs decided it would be a good product. People are often inspired by everyday needs. Perhaps he was in for a checkup and the doctor couldn't find the right notes. Then it clicked, what if the doctor could carry a wifi enabled tablet this keeps the notes in sync for other doctors and saves the need to re-type notes from paper onto a computer.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBit


    And we still have to see what PA Semi has been up to. Most speculation I've seen about the next iPhone model don't really involve them either, but rather talk about off-the shelf components.



    I think they can use a custom PA Semi chip along with Nvidia Tegra in the next iphone.
  • Reply 75 of 174
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 673member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    By my rough calculations, a 16:10, 10.1" screen with a bezel would be close to 9.25" x 6.75". Roughly speaking of course.



    Still in the ballpark for overall size - I think they would stick with a 1.33 or close ratio - even the existing iPhone platform has it and they letterbox the 16:9 etc. Why? This would still be more an info device than media device and you need vertical screen real estate. Many netbooks are going 16:9 or 16:10 to match the keyboard aspect and clean up the design - but without a keyboard you don't need to. The bezel is an area ripe for creative thinking - knowing where to put your thumbs on a kindle 2 is better than the kindle 1, but it's still clunky. And accidental input is going to be a critical issue as well.



    For all we know these forums are like the original "A Chorus Line" interviews and Steve is doing his best Michael Bennett imitation.
  • Reply 76 of 174
    avidfcpavidfcp Posts: 381member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Uh-oh. The troll generator is malfunctioning.



    Hmm. Meanwhile on macrumors many are saying things like over priced under spec.

    Iveused macs years before this forum, day of Margaret Cho and where editing a 5 min seg required a 20 min wait. Suddenly I post here a bit fed up that apple cares not for us but much more for the consumer while ignoring us and making us pay near server prices for our macs, yes, I'm a bit upset. Plus in graphics we have no choice but to use glossy. I bet half the people here don't even remember the non glossy iMacs and how popular they werein graphics, yet does Apple care? No. And called a troll for not being a fanboy? I don't think so.
  • Reply 77 of 174
    Ya get well soon Steve...Apple is waiting for you..
  • Reply 78 of 174
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    By my rough calculations, a 16:10, 10.1" screen with a bezel would be close to 9.25" x 6.75". Roughly speaking of course.



    "6x9" is the exact size of the standard non-fiction trade paperback (in most of the world) for the last fifty years or so, and thus the perfect size for an electronic book.
  • Reply 79 of 174
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mi_sat View Post


    Wrong, asstard. I sent them the link to the wsj artlcle along with the article itself. I could give two shits about credit. What i do care about is that the author re-wrote the wsj article almost to imply that the blogger was researching the subject -- to which i call bullshit.



    Only a flaming liberal reads NYT. Suggest you pull your head out of your liberal ass before claiming to know what you're talking about when it comes to sources.



    Wow. You care so little about credit you are willing to reply vehemently and obscenely to a total stranger about it? Yeah, you're not mad at all, I can tell.



    As for all your assumptions about being a "liberal" etc. I am not even American, and the word has litle meaning outside of the USA's weird little political system. I also haven't read a paper in ten years or more, let alone an American one.



    You might also look into the psychology of insults. It's been indicated by many studies that those who use a particular type of insult all the time, use it because to them it has the most power. It is in essence the thing they are most scared of being called themselves. The thing that they are infatuated with or obsessed by themselves.



    You might want to reflect on that and all the images of asses, sh*t, assh*les etc. that you are using here. You have a "thing" for asses or poop? Sure seems so. And what's a "flaming" liberal in that context?
  • Reply 80 of 174
    xpcxpc Posts: 12member
    Ohhhh the dots are starting to connect a bit - the lightweight nand, the small screen, and the desire to shift away from Windows mobile on the Apple Store hand-held AIO scanners/inventory/multi-widget.....



    Maybe.
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