As much as I love Amazon to buy things online I can't understand how they keep putting out this kind of products. I mean: a B&W screen in 2009 when LED & LCD displays can offer so much color? more than $300 just to read books?
"Just to read books".... but although you don't get it, for some people reading is a great source of pleasure. And they've been using black & white typeset for ages. Seemed to work out okay for Dickens. The e-ink screens are higher resolution than LCDs. And the passive displays are more like reading paper. It's a different experience. If you don't get it, then you don't get it. But you act like B&W is ancient tech. For e-paper, it's not. This is pretty advanced technology here. The Kindle is a 4 out of 5 star device for me. They need to improve the whiteness of the page, and a couple of other things, but it's a really nice device. In medium-light, I need a book light, or I have to switch to paper. But outside, the faintly grey background actually makes it easier to read. And I mainly bought it to read by the pool anyhow.
Yes. And they're having problems with these programs too.
But at least a laptop is a device that does much more than a book reader. It might be worth the shot. I don't think that parents will want their kids to be carrying a $500 device that just has their books. My daughter didn't mind carrying all that around.
I WOULD. Especially if it meant that my child would be spared carrying around 10 - 20 pounds of books in school. Many Jr. High and High schools are dropping lockers, forcing the kids to carry their texts all day and it is having significant negative effects on their back health.
I think my child's health is worth more than $500.
I think the electronic versions are (or will be) much less expensive. The publishing costs
are much lower with no paper, no newsstands, many fewer union employees, etc.
Well, the WSJ Kindle subscription is 20% more than dead-tree form. ($120 vs 99 per year) While I appreciate that it may be more valuable to some people in that form, the pricing of the content reinforces the idea that this is a toy and not a device that would be viable on its own.
The very name "Kindle" to me describes Amazon's vision. This isn't the fire, it's not the fuel, it's just the little bit to get the fire started!
My biggest gripe is that the publishers see this as a way to make massively more money. eBooks have massively less manufacturing and distribution costs, cannot be resold (or, it seems, transferred from one device to another?), and have inherently less value. The price for the consumer should be far less than a paper copy.
Fix the business model, and mature the readers (bigger, faster, cheaper, color screens), and it just might catch on!
What you said, generally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The problem with the Kindle, and devices like them, it that they are specialized devices in a time when specialized devices are going away.
I find it hard to believe that people who frequent computer sites, and are thereby assumed to be "up" on technology, and where it's going, can't seem to see that this is just a short term solution. Amazon has no interest in selling Kindles, because they know that few people will get them. That's one reason why they have the program for the iTouch/iPhone.
Amazon wants to sell books, magazines etc. This is the razor, and the content is the blade.
Amazon is hoping that this high profile device family, I guess we can now call it, will make people think about digital media for reading.
But in a couple of years, the ATOM and ARM will be powerful enough, and need little enough power, for a computer to fit this space, and obsolete a reader.
I hope that by that time, a good screen develops, because this one is marginal at best, and yes, I've used one.
Almost what you said.
There are other scenarios. The overriding theme on which at least some of your thinking seems based, namely, that device convergence is inevitable, is being validated every day.
However, it's also possible that the Kindle (and successor devices like it) will also move higher up in the food chain themselves. Take the original iPod as a case study, picture that fat little 1GB b/w music playing only device for what was it, $500?, and hold it up against a 32 GB iPod Touch mobile computing device about to get iPhone OS 3.0 and selling for hundreds less.
The Kindle's already more than a book reader with limited net and communication capabilities. It can incorporate low power draw/hi res color display technologies coming to market as well as any PC maker. Imagine where that can go in another 5 or 6 generations.
Just wondering: who exactly does engineer and manufacture the Kindle? Is any of it done in house at this retailing company?
And device convergence is far from any conceivable point at which a single 5 oz fully pocketable device can display a 15" or larger screen, full size actual keyboards (or even full, accurate, intuitive voice control) - that's Wiley Coyote Acme Corp. special stuff you can't mail-order in the analog world.....
So there will not only be form factors all along the spectrum from the smaller-than-the-latest-shuffle to full scale work stations with multiple monitors and all manner of peripherals wired into 'em, the number of permutations on which functions are converged in which devices will proliferate and multiply as binary possibilities advance.
I'm not putting money on the Kindle per se, or e-ink or even Amazon, but I do believe in that future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Amazon has had ONE device. The fact that they have constantly refused to give out sales figures seems a bit suspicious.
Granted
But whatever, mobile computing in general is at the most exciting, game-changing point we've seen in decades. There will be a lot of roadkill along the way as there was in the beginning of the PC era.
The Kindle may be among the fallen (though a lot of people who've bet against Jeff Bezos lightly are already among those) -- still, something like it, with its own set of converged functions (current and new) will be among the significant winners over the next 3-10 years, that is, a device class (with book/magazine/news/media + other capabilities in various sizes) which will sell and remain relevant for up to a decade or longer.
iTunes allows sharing, and everybody has their price. Unfortunately, considering technical books for the Kindle cost nearly as much as hard copy, the publishers may already have it too good. The OCR apparently used to create Kindle books is also not error-free, which is a distraction while reading and a big disappointment--and potentially very concerning for technical books. One would think in this millennium the publishers could get exact text into the hands of Amazon.
Books are not music. I already pointed this out. You're looking to the wrong example. Look to DVDs and Blu-Ray. No copying allowed. I'm not talking about programs that allow you to make illegal copies either. That's for personal use, and you're just allowed to make one copy, if you are at all, which is something the courts are still out on, both here and abroad.
There's no reason why they would have to use OCR on a book that's less than about 15 years old. Those are published from digital files. That was part of my business. If they are, then something's not right.
You're kidding? Sure that's not an analogy from a Psystar thread?
I'm serious. There are people who are dedicated to doing this. just like there are people devoted to "cracking" software. It's piracy by whatever name it's called, but it's done.
They even have different versions of books, depending on how much correction has been done, and how advanced the formatting is.
Funny, people said the same thing when I got an iPhone. $399 to use a phone that doesn't even have most of the features that an actual phone has! And they were right, the iPhone is a very expensive phone. It still is, when you consider the iPhone's plan is around $80/month for 2 years, making the iPhone a $2000 phone. The Kindle is $300-$400, but the 3G is included for life.
Except that the 3G is devoted to your buying from Amazon. If Apple did that with the 3G on the iPhone, people would have screamed.
This isn't a real 3G service. It's just a buying service. Let's get this right. You're paying for it when you buy books, and other content from them. It's part of the price of that content. It ain't free!
Quote:
I have a Kindle, and it is an expensive book reader. But I love it. I can't read a book on my iPhone, the screen is too small and too low-res. Plus all that pinching, squeezing, scrolling?it's not a book reader, it's a phone. With the Kindle, I no longer have to put a bunch of books and newspapers in my briefcase when I go on a business trip.
Nonsense! The iPhone has about the same rez as the Kindle. It's 160 ppi. Don't tell us that you can see the difference between 160 and 167 ppi.
Nobody pinches or squeezes when reading books on the iPhone. You scroll or turn a page, and it happens much faster than the sluggish Kindle.
I don't think you have an iPhone at all from your description of it.
Quote:
Plus the Kindle lasts a whole lot longer than my iPhone. The iPhone I have is starting to experience some battery health issues that all Lithium ion batteries face?its battery drains more quickly then it used to, so keeping the screen lit for 30-45 minutes can drain its battery by 20%. Since I need to keep it alive for its intended purpose, a phone, I tend to not use my iPhone much anymore except as a phone. I don't have to worry about the Kindle; its battery seems to last forever (that;s not literal, but I've yet to drain its battery fully even when going a week without recharging it).
The battery life is the only teur thing you've said here.
But I can read a book for several hours without an problem. You really haven't used the iPhone for this. I've read for as long as 4 hours a day on the phone, and it was still working fine.
Some of what you say is certainly true. The background isn't completely white. There was a Grisham book years ago, where the paper was very light grey and the type was dark grey. Stylish, maybe, but unpleasant to read. And if the lighting was less that brilliant, it was extremely unpleasant.
And although I feel you're wrong that the Kindle isn't suited to 1-handed reading, neither does it seem like a device you just take when you're out & about. I'm not sure if it's because I'd feel self-conscious reading with one in public or what. Mostly when I'm reading, I want to blend in and not be interrupted. It seems like I'd kind of draw unwanted attention and questions reading with a Kindle in public.
One need for a book reader is that it accompany you when you go somewhere where you will have time on your hands. My friend began taking his Kindle with him, but over time took it less and less, until he mostly stopped taking it at all.
Just too inconvenient. If it's a computer, and you may need it for that, you take it, but unless you're the type of person to carry a pack around with you all the time, as most people aren't, there's no easy to bring this. You aren't going to carry it all the time. There's not going to be a belt holster for something this size.
The other problem is price. This is simply too expensive for most people. It's like people here saying that a Mac is too expensive. $400 or $500 for a book reader is outrageous. When you couple that to the $10 price for books, its too much. I can buy, and did today buy several books from Barnes & Nobel where each book costs significantly less. I bought 4 pocket novels. The most expensive was $8.09, and the least $6.29. That's with my member discount.
This is why I think it will ultimately fail. While there will be a few people, as we see here, who will have one, most people won't find a need, or use for it.
It's got to do something else that people need, and need enough so that they will bring it with them everywhere they go (well, almost everywhere).
Right now, that's a smartphone. A book reader is just one more program.
Or a computer of some sort if a bigger screen is wanted.
It's an all inclusive device with its own OS and wireless connectivity- you pay just as much if not more for your Apples.
Except that the connectivity is just for buying something. You're getting free access to what is basically a shopping network.
That excites you?
What if Apple said that you were getting free 3G service, but it would only go to their iTunes service, and a couple of other sites with something to buy?
Would you have been just as happy about that?
I doubt it.
And the price of the service is being added to the price of the books. Don't doubt that. It's one reason why they cost so much more than paperbacks.
I WOULD. Especially if it meant that my child would be spared carrying around 10 - 20 pounds of books in school. Many Jr. High and High schools are dropping lockers, forcing the kids to carry their texts all day and it is having significant negative effects on their back health.
I think my child's health is worth more than $500.
Millions of kids aren't having health problems because they carry some books to school every day. It's just something they do. I did it, you did it, my daughter did it, and they will be doing it for some time to come.
Heh! For some kids, it's the only exercise they get.
There are other scenarios. The overriding theme on which at least some of your thinking seems based, namely, that device convergence is inevitable, is being validated every day.
However, it's also possible that the Kindle (and successor devices like it) will also move higher up in the food chain themselves. Take the original iPod as a case study, picture that fat little 1GB b/w music playing only device for what was it, $500?, and hold it up against a 32 GB iPod Touch mobile computing device about to get iPhone OS 3.0 and selling for hundreds less.
The Kindle's already more than a book reader with limited net and communication capabilities. It can incorporate low power draw/hi res color display technologies coming to market as well as any PC maker. Imagine where that can go in another 5 or 6 generations.
Just wondering: who exactly does engineer and manufacture the Kindle? Is any of it done in house at this retailing company?
I hink I've said that Amazon might be thinking about moving the Kindle up when the possibility is here.
To me, it doesn't matter who does it. Amazon can do it. I'm not so sure people will want a Linux based model as they seem to be rejecting Linux based netbooks.
But it will be done by someone, perhaps Apple. Maybe the two companies will have a convergence device together. That's legal.
Quote:
And device convergence is far from any conceivable point at which a single 5 oz fully pocketable device can display a 15" or larger screen, full size actual keyboards (or even full, accurate, intuitive voice control) - that's Wiley Coyote Acme Corp. special stuff you can't mail-order in the analog world.....
So there will not only be form factors all along the spectrum from the smaller-than-the-latest-shuffle to full scale work stations with multiple monitors and all manner of peripherals wired into 'em, the number of permutations on which functions are converged in which devices will proliferate and multiply as binary possibilities advance.
I'm not putting money on the Kindle per se, or e-ink or even Amazon, but I do believe in that future.
If it's a convergence device, it doesn't have to be 5 ounces. People will accept more. As long as it's under a pound, it will be ok. The less the better of course.
Quote:
Granted
But whatever, mobile computing in general is at the most exciting, game-changing point we've seen in decades. There will be a lot of roadkill along the way as there was in the beginning of the PC era.
The Kindle may be among the fallen (though a lot of people who've bet against Jeff Bezos lightly are already among those) -- still, something like it, with its own set of converged functions (current and new) will be among the significant winners over the next 3-10 years, that is, a device class (with book/magazine/news/media + other capabilities in various sizes) which will sell and remain relevant for up to a decade or longer.
I've not bet against Bezos. I had Amazon stock when they were saying that Amazon couldn't make a profit.
I just see this device as an intermediary between what we've had, and what we will have. I don't know why some people are so upset about that.
This is already being done in the .alt newsgroups area.
It's part of the digital revolution I'm sad to say.
People are actually going to the effort of taking a book apart page by page, scanning them, and cleaning them up with OCR. They then put them in the newsgroups.
wow
i am 50 now .seems like all my sci-fi dreams as a kid are here . a nice 7-9 in mac tablet .
you can ask what does it not do ?? well iguess we'll now be making phone calls too from our future tablets .
i simple love reading . and the kindle is a fine product . amazon will kill it soon . they only want to have a ibooks store like apple .i guess google may win this one .
I can't wait for the Apple device that will probably run on Verizon.
Color, OS programs, email, just hope we are not raped by a contract.
Should work well with iPhone, Mobile Me. It's happening.
i think apple should learn from amazon here. no contract (price included) 3g service. it's probably a stretch if this mysterious apple device is internet based. My thought. If apple releases something like this. create a way to link it to the iphone to piggy back off the service. Not contract then.
I think it's brilliant what amazon has done though. the DX will keep the student focused on the task. no internet with facebook or chat in the DX to distract the learning process. one of the biggest problems universities and the public school system would have if apple were to compete with this. Which, is the only way they can compete with this is by sellling to the big institutions like schools and the health care industry.
Students should be very leery of supporting electronic text publishers. First, the price between the actual book and electronic copy is often insignificant. Second, you can't sell the book to try and recoup some of the over inflated price you paid. Third, if electronic text books take off, publishers likely will eventually raise the prices on the electronic books to match the paper books and do away with paper books all together.
But its over priced and many multi-function machines can already do a better job at no extra cost except for adding a single app.
Why bother ???
some college kids and types like that. this as a great temporary solution
my only concern about this would be that to do what kindle is doing in color would be difficult. I have an iPhone and i can't stare at the screen for more than 20 minutes before my eyes start to get all strained. it would be tough to market this as a device for schools and universities on a LCD back-lit screen. It would have to be some kind of colorized version of the "e-Ink" display with no back light.
Students should be very leery of supporting electronic text publishers. First, the price between the actual book and electronic copy is often insignificant. Second, you can't sell the book to try and recoup some of the over inflated price you paid. Third, if electronic text books take off, publishers likely will eventually raise the prices on the electronic books to match the paper books and do away with paper books all together.
i think that's where big brother will have to step in. there has to be regulation because as we've seen with the banking industry, the market economy produces a lot of greed. Sure, make the ebooks the same price as the print text for 3-5 years until ebooks become mainstream. then lower the cost to the average used book.
They should learn from itunes on pricing. People are more willing to by books one at a time if the price is right. Think about it, 99 cents when you add it up doesn't sound bad for one song, but when you buy a whole album over a period of time, then 99 cents doesn't look so good. That's why the album price is cheaper. but if you don't initially want the album and just get a few songs, realizing later you want the whole album, then you're kind of stuck. Point is...people are more willing to buy more books if the per/unit cost is the right price.
Except that the connectivity is just for buying something. You're getting free access to what is basically a shopping network.
That excites you?
What if Apple said that you were getting free 3G service, but it would only go to their iTunes service, and a couple of other sites with something to buy?
Would you have been just as happy about that?
I doubt it.
And the price of the service is being added to the price of the books. Don't doubt that. It's one reason why they cost so much more than paperbacks.
this could possibly open the door to free internet. if companies like Amazon decide to provide their own service for their websites. then more companies will follow suit. then advertising takes over and buys band width as well. could be very good and very bad at the same time.
Comments
As much as I love Amazon to buy things online I can't understand how they keep putting out this kind of products. I mean: a B&W screen in 2009 when LED & LCD displays can offer so much color? more than $300 just to read books?
"Just to read books".... but although you don't get it, for some people reading is a great source of pleasure. And they've been using black & white typeset for ages. Seemed to work out okay for Dickens. The e-ink screens are higher resolution than LCDs. And the passive displays are more like reading paper. It's a different experience. If you don't get it, then you don't get it. But you act like B&W is ancient tech. For e-paper, it's not. This is pretty advanced technology here. The Kindle is a 4 out of 5 star device for me. They need to improve the whiteness of the page, and a couple of other things, but it's a really nice device. In medium-light, I need a book light, or I have to switch to paper. But outside, the faintly grey background actually makes it easier to read. And I mainly bought it to read by the pool anyhow.
Yes. And they're having problems with these programs too.
But at least a laptop is a device that does much more than a book reader. It might be worth the shot. I don't think that parents will want their kids to be carrying a $500 device that just has their books. My daughter didn't mind carrying all that around.
I WOULD. Especially if it meant that my child would be spared carrying around 10 - 20 pounds of books in school. Many Jr. High and High schools are dropping lockers, forcing the kids to carry their texts all day and it is having significant negative effects on their back health.
I think my child's health is worth more than $500.
I think the electronic versions are (or will be) much less expensive. The publishing costs
are much lower with no paper, no newsstands, many fewer union employees, etc.
Well, the WSJ Kindle subscription is 20% more than dead-tree form. ($120 vs 99 per year) While I appreciate that it may be more valuable to some people in that form, the pricing of the content reinforces the idea that this is a toy and not a device that would be viable on its own.
Pioneer, yes. Perfect world-changing solution, no.
The very name "Kindle" to me describes Amazon's vision. This isn't the fire, it's not the fuel, it's just the little bit to get the fire started!
My biggest gripe is that the publishers see this as a way to make massively more money. eBooks have massively less manufacturing and distribution costs, cannot be resold (or, it seems, transferred from one device to another?), and have inherently less value. The price for the consumer should be far less than a paper copy.
Fix the business model, and mature the readers (bigger, faster, cheaper, color screens), and it just might catch on!
What you said, generally.
The problem with the Kindle, and devices like them, it that they are specialized devices in a time when specialized devices are going away.
I find it hard to believe that people who frequent computer sites, and are thereby assumed to be "up" on technology, and where it's going, can't seem to see that this is just a short term solution. Amazon has no interest in selling Kindles, because they know that few people will get them. That's one reason why they have the program for the iTouch/iPhone.
Amazon wants to sell books, magazines etc. This is the razor, and the content is the blade.
Amazon is hoping that this high profile device family, I guess we can now call it, will make people think about digital media for reading.
But in a couple of years, the ATOM and ARM will be powerful enough, and need little enough power, for a computer to fit this space, and obsolete a reader.
I hope that by that time, a good screen develops, because this one is marginal at best, and yes, I've used one.
Almost what you said.
There are other scenarios. The overriding theme on which at least some of your thinking seems based, namely, that device convergence is inevitable, is being validated every day.
However, it's also possible that the Kindle (and successor devices like it) will also move higher up in the food chain themselves. Take the original iPod as a case study, picture that fat little 1GB b/w music playing only device for what was it, $500?, and hold it up against a 32 GB iPod Touch mobile computing device about to get iPhone OS 3.0 and selling for hundreds less.
The Kindle's already more than a book reader with limited net and communication capabilities. It can incorporate low power draw/hi res color display technologies coming to market as well as any PC maker. Imagine where that can go in another 5 or 6 generations. And device convergence is far from any conceivable point at which a single 5 oz fully pocketable device can display a 15" or larger screen, full size actual keyboards (or even full, accurate, intuitive voice control) - that's Wiley Coyote Acme Corp. special stuff you can't mail-order in the analog world.....
So there will not only be form factors all along the spectrum from the smaller-than-the-latest-shuffle to full scale work stations with multiple monitors and all manner of peripherals wired into 'em, the number of permutations on which functions are converged in which devices will proliferate and multiply as binary possibilities advance.
I'm not putting money on the Kindle per se, or e-ink or even Amazon, but I do believe in that future.
Amazon has had ONE device. The fact that they have constantly refused to give out sales figures seems a bit suspicious.
Granted
But whatever, mobile computing in general is at the most exciting, game-changing point we've seen in decades. There will be a lot of roadkill along the way as there was in the beginning of the PC era.
The Kindle may be among the fallen (though a lot of people who've bet against Jeff Bezos lightly are already among those) -- still, something like it, with its own set of converged functions (current and new) will be among the significant winners over the next 3-10 years, that is, a device class (with book/magazine/news/media + other capabilities in various sizes) which will sell and remain relevant for up to a decade or longer.
iTunes allows sharing, and everybody has their price. Unfortunately, considering technical books for the Kindle cost nearly as much as hard copy, the publishers may already have it too good. The OCR apparently used to create Kindle books is also not error-free, which is a distraction while reading and a big disappointment--and potentially very concerning for technical books. One would think in this millennium the publishers could get exact text into the hands of Amazon.
Books are not music. I already pointed this out. You're looking to the wrong example. Look to DVDs and Blu-Ray. No copying allowed. I'm not talking about programs that allow you to make illegal copies either. That's for personal use, and you're just allowed to make one copy, if you are at all, which is something the courts are still out on, both here and abroad.
There's no reason why they would have to use OCR on a book that's less than about 15 years old. Those are published from digital files. That was part of my business. If they are, then something's not right.
You're kidding? Sure that's not an analogy from a Psystar thread?
I'm serious. There are people who are dedicated to doing this. just like there are people devoted to "cracking" software. It's piracy by whatever name it's called, but it's done.
They even have different versions of books, depending on how much correction has been done, and how advanced the formatting is.
Funny, people said the same thing when I got an iPhone. $399 to use a phone that doesn't even have most of the features that an actual phone has! And they were right, the iPhone is a very expensive phone. It still is, when you consider the iPhone's plan is around $80/month for 2 years, making the iPhone a $2000 phone. The Kindle is $300-$400, but the 3G is included for life.
Except that the 3G is devoted to your buying from Amazon. If Apple did that with the 3G on the iPhone, people would have screamed.
This isn't a real 3G service. It's just a buying service. Let's get this right. You're paying for it when you buy books, and other content from them. It's part of the price of that content. It ain't free!
I have a Kindle, and it is an expensive book reader. But I love it. I can't read a book on my iPhone, the screen is too small and too low-res. Plus all that pinching, squeezing, scrolling?it's not a book reader, it's a phone. With the Kindle, I no longer have to put a bunch of books and newspapers in my briefcase when I go on a business trip.
Nonsense! The iPhone has about the same rez as the Kindle. It's 160 ppi. Don't tell us that you can see the difference between 160 and 167 ppi.
Nobody pinches or squeezes when reading books on the iPhone. You scroll or turn a page, and it happens much faster than the sluggish Kindle.
I don't think you have an iPhone at all from your description of it.
Plus the Kindle lasts a whole lot longer than my iPhone. The iPhone I have is starting to experience some battery health issues that all Lithium ion batteries face?its battery drains more quickly then it used to, so keeping the screen lit for 30-45 minutes can drain its battery by 20%. Since I need to keep it alive for its intended purpose, a phone, I tend to not use my iPhone much anymore except as a phone. I don't have to worry about the Kindle; its battery seems to last forever (that;s not literal, but I've yet to drain its battery fully even when going a week without recharging it).
The battery life is the only teur thing you've said here.
But I can read a book for several hours without an problem. You really haven't used the iPhone for this. I've read for as long as 4 hours a day on the phone, and it was still working fine.
Some of what you say is certainly true. The background isn't completely white. There was a Grisham book years ago, where the paper was very light grey and the type was dark grey. Stylish, maybe, but unpleasant to read. And if the lighting was less that brilliant, it was extremely unpleasant.
And although I feel you're wrong that the Kindle isn't suited to 1-handed reading, neither does it seem like a device you just take when you're out & about. I'm not sure if it's because I'd feel self-conscious reading with one in public or what. Mostly when I'm reading, I want to blend in and not be interrupted. It seems like I'd kind of draw unwanted attention and questions reading with a Kindle in public.
One need for a book reader is that it accompany you when you go somewhere where you will have time on your hands. My friend began taking his Kindle with him, but over time took it less and less, until he mostly stopped taking it at all.
Just too inconvenient. If it's a computer, and you may need it for that, you take it, but unless you're the type of person to carry a pack around with you all the time, as most people aren't, there's no easy to bring this. You aren't going to carry it all the time. There's not going to be a belt holster for something this size.
The other problem is price. This is simply too expensive for most people. It's like people here saying that a Mac is too expensive. $400 or $500 for a book reader is outrageous. When you couple that to the $10 price for books, its too much. I can buy, and did today buy several books from Barnes & Nobel where each book costs significantly less. I bought 4 pocket novels. The most expensive was $8.09, and the least $6.29. That's with my member discount.
This is why I think it will ultimately fail. While there will be a few people, as we see here, who will have one, most people won't find a need, or use for it.
It's got to do something else that people need, and need enough so that they will bring it with them everywhere they go (well, almost everywhere).
Right now, that's a smartphone. A book reader is just one more program.
Or a computer of some sort if a bigger screen is wanted.
It's an all inclusive device with its own OS and wireless connectivity- you pay just as much if not more for your Apples.
Except that the connectivity is just for buying something. You're getting free access to what is basically a shopping network.
That excites you?
What if Apple said that you were getting free 3G service, but it would only go to their iTunes service, and a couple of other sites with something to buy?
Would you have been just as happy about that?
I doubt it.
And the price of the service is being added to the price of the books. Don't doubt that. It's one reason why they cost so much more than paperbacks.
I WOULD. Especially if it meant that my child would be spared carrying around 10 - 20 pounds of books in school. Many Jr. High and High schools are dropping lockers, forcing the kids to carry their texts all day and it is having significant negative effects on their back health.
I think my child's health is worth more than $500.
Millions of kids aren't having health problems because they carry some books to school every day. It's just something they do. I did it, you did it, my daughter did it, and they will be doing it for some time to come.
Heh! For some kids, it's the only exercise they get.
Almost what you said.
There are other scenarios. The overriding theme on which at least some of your thinking seems based, namely, that device convergence is inevitable, is being validated every day.
However, it's also possible that the Kindle (and successor devices like it) will also move higher up in the food chain themselves. Take the original iPod as a case study, picture that fat little 1GB b/w music playing only device for what was it, $500?, and hold it up against a 32 GB iPod Touch mobile computing device about to get iPhone OS 3.0 and selling for hundreds less.
The Kindle's already more than a book reader with limited net and communication capabilities. It can incorporate low power draw/hi res color display technologies coming to market as well as any PC maker. Imagine where that can go in another 5 or 6 generations.
I hink I've said that Amazon might be thinking about moving the Kindle up when the possibility is here.
To me, it doesn't matter who does it. Amazon can do it. I'm not so sure people will want a Linux based model as they seem to be rejecting Linux based netbooks.
But it will be done by someone, perhaps Apple. Maybe the two companies will have a convergence device together. That's legal.
And device convergence is far from any conceivable point at which a single 5 oz fully pocketable device can display a 15" or larger screen, full size actual keyboards (or even full, accurate, intuitive voice control) - that's Wiley Coyote Acme Corp. special stuff you can't mail-order in the analog world.....
So there will not only be form factors all along the spectrum from the smaller-than-the-latest-shuffle to full scale work stations with multiple monitors and all manner of peripherals wired into 'em, the number of permutations on which functions are converged in which devices will proliferate and multiply as binary possibilities advance.
I'm not putting money on the Kindle per se, or e-ink or even Amazon, but I do believe in that future.
If it's a convergence device, it doesn't have to be 5 ounces. People will accept more. As long as it's under a pound, it will be ok. The less the better of course.
Granted
But whatever, mobile computing in general is at the most exciting, game-changing point we've seen in decades. There will be a lot of roadkill along the way as there was in the beginning of the PC era.
The Kindle may be among the fallen (though a lot of people who've bet against Jeff Bezos lightly are already among those) -- still, something like it, with its own set of converged functions (current and new) will be among the significant winners over the next 3-10 years, that is, a device class (with book/magazine/news/media + other capabilities in various sizes) which will sell and remain relevant for up to a decade or longer.
I've not bet against Bezos. I had Amazon stock when they were saying that Amazon couldn't make a profit.
I just see this device as an intermediary between what we've had, and what we will have. I don't know why some people are so upset about that.
This is already being done in the .alt newsgroups area.
It's part of the digital revolution I'm sad to say.
People are actually going to the effort of taking a book apart page by page, scanning them, and cleaning them up with OCR. They then put them in the newsgroups.
wow
i am 50 now .seems like all my sci-fi dreams as a kid are here . a nice 7-9 in mac tablet .
you can ask what does it not do ?? well iguess we'll now be making phone calls too from our future tablets .
i simple love reading . and the kindle is a fine product . amazon will kill it soon . they only want to have a ibooks store like apple .i guess google may win this one .
peace
9
Please -stop SPAMMing us!
spam.. why my gosh how could that be ??? 9 or 10 comments for each story is fine .lol
To summarize all the posts here read below .
last words
The kindle is 5 yrs. too late to the market.
It WAS a great idea .
But its over priced and many multi-function machines can already do a better job at no extra cost except for adding a single app.
Why bother ???
some college kids and types like that. this as a great temporary solution
I can't wait for the Apple device that will probably run on Verizon.
Color, OS programs, email, just hope we are not raped by a contract.
Should work well with iPhone, Mobile Me. It's happening.
i think apple should learn from amazon here. no contract (price included) 3g service. it's probably a stretch if this mysterious apple device is internet based. My thought. If apple releases something like this. create a way to link it to the iphone to piggy back off the service. Not contract then.
I think it's brilliant what amazon has done though. the DX will keep the student focused on the task. no internet with facebook or chat in the DX to distract the learning process. one of the biggest problems universities and the public school system would have if apple were to compete with this. Which, is the only way they can compete with this is by sellling to the big institutions like schools and the health care industry.
OK TOPIC CLOSED
To summarize all the posts here read below .
last words
The kindle is 5 yrs. too late to the market.
It WAS a great idea .
But its over priced and many multi-function machines can already do a better job at no extra cost except for adding a single app.
Why bother ???
some college kids and types like that. this as a great temporary solution
my only concern about this would be that to do what kindle is doing in color would be difficult. I have an iPhone and i can't stare at the screen for more than 20 minutes before my eyes start to get all strained. it would be tough to market this as a device for schools and universities on a LCD back-lit screen. It would have to be some kind of colorized version of the "e-Ink" display with no back light.
Students should be very leery of supporting electronic text publishers. First, the price between the actual book and electronic copy is often insignificant. Second, you can't sell the book to try and recoup some of the over inflated price you paid. Third, if electronic text books take off, publishers likely will eventually raise the prices on the electronic books to match the paper books and do away with paper books all together.
i think that's where big brother will have to step in. there has to be regulation because as we've seen with the banking industry, the market economy produces a lot of greed. Sure, make the ebooks the same price as the print text for 3-5 years until ebooks become mainstream. then lower the cost to the average used book.
They should learn from itunes on pricing. People are more willing to by books one at a time if the price is right. Think about it, 99 cents when you add it up doesn't sound bad for one song, but when you buy a whole album over a period of time, then 99 cents doesn't look so good. That's why the album price is cheaper. but if you don't initially want the album and just get a few songs, realizing later you want the whole album, then you're kind of stuck. Point is...people are more willing to buy more books if the per/unit cost is the right price.
Except that the connectivity is just for buying something. You're getting free access to what is basically a shopping network.
That excites you?
What if Apple said that you were getting free 3G service, but it would only go to their iTunes service, and a couple of other sites with something to buy?
Would you have been just as happy about that?
I doubt it.
And the price of the service is being added to the price of the books. Don't doubt that. It's one reason why they cost so much more than paperbacks.
this could possibly open the door to free internet. if companies like Amazon decide to provide their own service for their websites. then more companies will follow suit. then advertising takes over and buys band width as well. could be very good and very bad at the same time.