I've repeatedly said Xbox integration is the key to the zHD's success. Large installed base of xbox gives them a great foot in the door.
Don't tell people to forget about heresay then mention how the zune could "conceivably" run WinMo Apps. Going by your rationale, Apps have not been confirmed by Microsoft and should thus be left out of the discussion. Based strictly on announced facts, the Zune HD looks to be a solid PMP, but little else. Compared to the current features of the iPod Touch, it falls short in overall capability.
Ya I thought of what I said a few minutes after I posted it and realized how I sounded like a buffoon. I'm just reacting to the fact that people are acting as if they don't exist. I can run WM apps from 6 years ago, and if the OS is built around the Windows CE OS then the probability is extremely high they will run fine. But yes, it's hearsay and I'm sorry for contradicting myself the way I did.
those touchsmart computers are universally accepted as gimmicky. That's not to say touch-screen computing is pointless, however, in it's current state, its a lame stab at differentiating your product from the rest.
The only time I wanted one was when I saw my friend's father had set one up by his seat in his home theater. He used it to control everything pretty much.
"Also, it's deemed unlikely that Microsoft will ever have the app support Apple can claim for its iPod. "
Honestly, who cares? All but a couple dozen apps in the App Store are junk anyway. The last thing the Zune, iPod touch, or iPhone needs is a million fart apps, 99c games that are good for nothing other than saying "okay thats amusing", and all of the other useless junk currently in the App Store.
Pandora, Palringo, Skype, and a couple of games are all thats worth currently downloading or buying in the App Store. On my iPhone thats basically all I have. Nothing else is worth my time, money, or bandwidth.
So who really cares if the Zune never gets that kind of support?
However, MS has said this will integrate with the Xbox360. So far, the rumors have been spot on about this device.
If they continue to be true, such as it being NVIDA Tegra based (and the ability to output 720p supports this rumor), the Zune HD's gaming abilities will be far beyond what the iPhone and iPod touch can currently do.
Of course, the Zune HD has two things the iPhone and iPod touch will probably never have: wireless syncing and the ability to stream music over WiFi if you're a Zune Pass subscriber. Come on Apple, it's about time you give us the ability to pay a low monthly fee and get all the music we want!
who cares? i think the company that bases its bread and butter on app support in their operating systems might just care. microsoft's entire marketshare dominance is owed to all the app developers for their operating systems. without a great selection of apps, this will just become another ipod wannabe killer. it needs to be more than that because it's competing with the itouch and even iphone (the phone that's much more than a phone).
and that brings me to the apps...a few months ago, i might have agreed that it was more about quantity than quality but the tide has definitely turned. i've began purchasing a few apps here and there (flight control for .99 cents and geodefense for $3.99 for example). but my point is that i found out about both of these games from a videogame review podcast and website. iphone games are now a regular feature on every major game site. that is big. these games are becoming a real commodity on this platform and the zune hd absolutely needs games and other apps to survive much less thrive.
i don't know why you say iphone/itouch will never wireless sync. the hardware is all there but maybe apple might not unlock that ability, at least not until they use 802.11n or bluetooth 3.0 chipsets. as far the music subscription goes, no , apple will never allow a zune pass to be used on their hardware but there will definitely be a day that they do support streaming subscription services. but that's more of a music industry call than apple's. when they get desperate enough, apple will implement it for them in a big way and make zune pass look like a quaint little idea.
The looney Zune can only survive in the iPhone/iPods shadow. Although, It would make a perfect carnival toy. It's right up there with the fake Elmo doll!
I've repeatedly said Xbox integration is the key to the zHD's success. Large installed base of xbox gives them a great foot in the door.
BS. How large? if 20% of all Xbox users decide to get the Zune (and this is way too optimistic IMO), how much it will make? Anywhere near 10M per quarter (roughly the non-holiday iPod sales), or more likely 10M per decade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx
Oh please. That whole "Apple leading the way" nonsense hasn't been true since the mid 90s. Let's not forget that Windows was first with multi-processor SMP support, and Windows had pre-emptive multi-tasking about 5 years before Mac OS did. OS X still can't even support full hardware video playback, and the multi-display support on Apple notebooks is all messed up. Why do I have to start the system with the lid closed or sleep it and wake it back up to get it to use an external display only? Why can't I choose it in software like Windows has allowed me since ooh.. Windows 98?
Most of the things Apple builds upon are not invented by Apple, but none of the things you mentioned are even remotely pioneered by Microsoft. Think Silicon Graphics (SGI), bunch of other UNIXes, Next and even Apple. As far as multi-display support goes, even XP was more problematic than Mac OS System 7 - System 9 in most cases.
I am amazed how many people on this thread imagine that the device that was demoed is any competition to the iPod. The original Zune had more features on paper than the Zune HD against the iPod at the time but failed miserably. And those "Microsoft will put the cache behind" argument! Do you ever learn? Microsoft was forced to lower the price of the original Zune to match the price of the new iPods back then, but did not sell in meaningful quantities until heavy discounts. When the original Zune was announced, many MS fans were sure it will kill the iPod just because it has the MS money and power behind. It didn't work. Why it will work now? The only purpose of the demo is short-term media buzz IMO, much like the multi-touch Table-PC a couple of years ago. I really doubt that we will see this device as demonstrated. My best guess is that they plan some more features but are afraid to pre-announce them because a subsequent dumping of those features will backfire. Otherwise, this device is targeted to a very, very small market niche.
The looney Zune can only survive in the iPhone/iPods shadow. Although, It would make a perfect carnival toy. It's right up there with the fake Elmo doll!
:P
"Step right up! Swing the sledgehammer and make the bell go DING - win a Zune!"
or should it be the prize for most basketballs thrown into an oval-shaped rim? LOL
BS. How large? if 20% of all Xbox users decide to get the Zune (and this is way too optimistic IMO), how much it will make? Anywhere near 10M per quarter (roughly the non-holiday iPod sales), or more likely 10M per decade.
You're arguing my point. I don't think the Zune will ever surpass the Touch. However, it could see a reasonable amount of success (as defined relative to other Zunes / non-apple PMPs) if they make it a compelling companion to Xbox. If 20 percent of Xbox owners buy a zune HD, that's several million units. "Reasonably successful." It's all relative.
Guys, this says more about the poor state of Gizmodo more than anything positive about Microsoft.
You all know that the Zune brand is a major sponsor of Giz now...right?
It seemed to happen just before the last Snowmodo (Giz Ski Meetup). Zune crap everywhere, and now every second story there is nitpicking a percieved flaw in Apple or trumpeting how hip, cool and wonderful Microsotft in general and Zune in particular is.
How can a blog objectively review a product that is an active sponsor??
It is very sad.
thanks, lostkiwi, i didn't know about this. so Giz is just plain whoring.
It's funny you say that, considering the number of people who subscribe to music services numbers in the millions.
And if you want to talk numbers, let's talk about how many copies of Leopard have been sold versus the amount of copies of Vista that have been sold in the same time period
Your arguments always fall flat. No one has been able to make money on the subscription services. It doesn't matter what the actual number is, not enough people are interested, period. You always miss the point...
So there are more Vista copies out there? So?... There are more PCs than Macs so that would make sense. Again your point is?!...
Whatever. It's not about better - it's about something that works- period. if it didn't work people wouldn't use it. Enough said.
People use Windows because they don't know better.
When people I know complain about all the problems they have with their PCs and I ask them why they don't get a Mac, they spew out all the incorrect propaganda they have heard about Macs. It's amazing how consistent they all are. I could record a response and play it back every time.
So there are more Vista copies out there? So?... There are more PCs than Macs so that would make sense. Again your point is?!...
the whole, "call me when OSX outsells windows" argument is such a joke. Most consumers are uneducated / afraid to switch. They're not buying windows because it's better, they're buying it because it's all they know. "Hello, best buy? Yes, i'd like your cheapest computer with a fancy looking LCD monitor. It has Vista? What's that? Oh well, i'll take it anyway, Thanks!"
I was in staples the other day and there was a woman in there looking at some windows box. I actually felt bad for her. I was almost compelled to intervene and educate her a little, but unfortunately some people just don't / won't get it.
Ya I thought of what I said a few minutes after I posted it and realized how I sounded like a buffoon. I'm just reacting to the fact that people are acting as if they don't exist. I can run WM apps from 6 years ago, and if the OS is built around the Windows CE OS then the probability is extremely high they will run fine. But yes, it's hearsay and I'm sorry for contradicting myself the way I did.
The problem is Windows Mobile and zune HD OS are two different versions of Windows CE. The APIs etc. employed by Windows Mobile Apps do not necessarily exist on zHDOS (In fact, almost all of them almost certainly do not, outside of the base Windows CE APIs etc.). Compatibility of WiMo apps with zune HD OS is extremely unlikely.
Anyway, this thing is clearly a better zune with a nicer screen. But you can put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. The smaller (Than iPod touch/iPhone) screen, software and design all put me off. I have an iPod touch, and I for one will be replacing it with a Third Gen iPhone. I suspect more people will do that than buy this zune HD (Which is unlikely to be available here in the UK anyway).
Same goes for the Palm Pre (Except with that device, I can't for the life of me work out why everyone is so excited, it really is as ugly and clunky as any Slider Smartphone or indeed any smartphone featuring a gaudy little thumbpad ever has been)
Doesn't look that bad. The screen appears good and the interface seems pretty snappy.
Not so smart with the idea of a zooming menu that crops the current menu title in half making it unuseful on the top of the screen most of the time. What's up with that, Microsoft?
Not that bad.
So what's the software strategy?
Is this a windows mobile platform device?
... I don't know why I write this post.. I really don't care about the zune at all. Sorry for my half hearted entrance.
Put down the kool-aid drip and become a realist- if window products are all so sheet why do they dominate? People and corporation have had the opportunity to switch for how may years now (after how many "I'm a Mac' your a PC" " commercials forced down our collective throats - and they still haven't switched. Why? The closed eco-system being the main reason. Do I call that shitty- no I don't. You really can't compare the 2- one is open and the other is locked.
Imagine if Windows ran an update which recognized Macs and locked them out. How would Apple windows users react?
Apple is great but this constant vindetta against Windows ( they really shouldn't be compared) is both so idiotic and juvenile.
you say apple is great !!! Thank you.
i will say MSFT sucks .there products pander to the box makers not the people
Since you love mfst so much and there products are soooo good then get the f out here . And go post on there sites .
HEY DUDE .. here you a troll
but at the MSFT sites you would be a god . so leave dude and prosper
Ok this thread is getting completely out of hand with hearsay and rumors and what ifs.
and your comments are even worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
First off - APPS. Since this is based on Windows CE, the countless Windows Mobile apps that already exist could conceivably run fine on it. If you don't know about them, then don't even bother commenting on this. Otherwise, anyone who actually DOES know about WM apps knows that there are a ton of free apps that do exactly the same thing that paid apps in the app store do.
OMG. those "countless" WinMo apps - let's just consider the current 6.x ones - are nearly all primitive apps for small screens with cursor/keyboard UI that can't run on a touchscreen - so they can't possibly run on the Zilch HD! maybe some new 6.5 WinMo apps could - but MS has not said so or even hinted that, so that would be "hearsay and rumor" - actually pure guesswork on your part. my guess, admittedly, is that MS intends to bring apps to the Zilch next year with WinMo 7 instead, since that will be a much more advanced OS than the obsolete 6.x.
meanwhile, the Touch has got great apps for real - today. end of that story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
Secondly - Stop comparing this thing to the 2009 Touch FFS!!! Rather than sit there and talk about what you think the Touch might have, just focus on what Microsoft has announced the Zune will have. Bringing up rumors and trying to pass them off as nonexistent facts speaks wonders to someone's intelligence.
dude, both the Zilch HD and the 2009 Touch will go on sale at nearly the same time in the fall. everyone is going to compare those two against each other in deciding what to buy whether you approve or not. it would be stupid to compare the Zilch against the 2008 Touch instead. what we know about the 2009 Touch for sure is it will run the iPhone 3.0 software we already have some details about and will learn much more in two weeks. it is fair to say the addition of GPS location services is highly likely, and the addition of a camera is very possible. (a processor speed bump would also be expected since that is the norm.) how do you think the Zilch's new HD radio and 720p output features will stack up against those new Touch features in the marketplace (hint: a blowout of someone).
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
Finally - XBox integration. 30 Million sold and people here still think this won't be an eye catching feature of the Zune. Amazing.
yes it will catch the eye of a few million teenage boys whose lives revolve around their XBox. will give you that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
What intrigues me the most with this Zune is the HD video output. With a wifi connection and Orb, I'll be able to stream my hd movies to my friends TV's, not to mention if I simply transfer them to the internal memory of this thing. I've got a fairly large library of movies, and even if they aren't 720p, the zune's native widescreen video output means I won't have to use standard rca cables for a 4:3 display that I crop.
whereas more and more TV makers just let you plug your iPhone/Touch/iPod directly into the TV for playback. as to formats, let's see what outputs the 3.0 OS supports in two weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
Bottom line, this is a very decent product, and YES, it WILL give the ipod touch a run for it's money. Anyone who thinks it won't is living in a dream world, a fantasy, a place of myth and legend where Apple gives a crap about you defending them.
so your experience of something means that somebody elses experiences must all be false and they must be trolling?
You are right about the troll thing - I retract that statement.
I have to admit that I do doubt the veracity of what he said; I have used PC's and Macs for a long time. Back in the dark ages of OS8 and 9 I switched to PC's because they were indeed more stable. With OSX however I think the tide has turned, at least from my perspective, in favor of Apple's OS once again.
Comments
I've repeatedly said Xbox integration is the key to the zHD's success. Large installed base of xbox gives them a great foot in the door.
Don't tell people to forget about heresay then mention how the zune could "conceivably" run WinMo Apps. Going by your rationale, Apps have not been confirmed by Microsoft and should thus be left out of the discussion. Based strictly on announced facts, the Zune HD looks to be a solid PMP, but little else. Compared to the current features of the iPod Touch, it falls short in overall capability.
Ya I thought of what I said a few minutes after I posted it and realized how I sounded like a buffoon. I'm just reacting to the fact that people are acting as if they don't exist. I can run WM apps from 6 years ago, and if the OS is built around the Windows CE OS then the probability is extremely high they will run fine. But yes, it's hearsay and I'm sorry for contradicting myself the way I did.
But tapping inputs multiple times is pretty much a routine thing for me - it may be my fat fingers
Use your fingernail, not just the fleshy part of your finger. Made a night an day difference for me.
those touchsmart computers are universally accepted as gimmicky. That's not to say touch-screen computing is pointless, however, in it's current state, its a lame stab at differentiating your product from the rest.
The only time I wanted one was when I saw my friend's father had set one up by his seat in his home theater. He used it to control everything pretty much.
"Also, it's deemed unlikely that Microsoft will ever have the app support Apple can claim for its iPod. "
Honestly, who cares? All but a couple dozen apps in the App Store are junk anyway. The last thing the Zune, iPod touch, or iPhone needs is a million fart apps, 99c games that are good for nothing other than saying "okay thats amusing", and all of the other useless junk currently in the App Store.
Pandora, Palringo, Skype, and a couple of games are all thats worth currently downloading or buying in the App Store. On my iPhone thats basically all I have. Nothing else is worth my time, money, or bandwidth.
So who really cares if the Zune never gets that kind of support?
However, MS has said this will integrate with the Xbox360. So far, the rumors have been spot on about this device.
If they continue to be true, such as it being NVIDA Tegra based (and the ability to output 720p supports this rumor), the Zune HD's gaming abilities will be far beyond what the iPhone and iPod touch can currently do.
Of course, the Zune HD has two things the iPhone and iPod touch will probably never have: wireless syncing and the ability to stream music over WiFi if you're a Zune Pass subscriber. Come on Apple, it's about time you give us the ability to pay a low monthly fee and get all the music we want!
who cares? i think the company that bases its bread and butter on app support in their operating systems might just care. microsoft's entire marketshare dominance is owed to all the app developers for their operating systems. without a great selection of apps, this will just become another ipod wannabe killer. it needs to be more than that because it's competing with the itouch and even iphone (the phone that's much more than a phone).
and that brings me to the apps...a few months ago, i might have agreed that it was more about quantity than quality but the tide has definitely turned. i've began purchasing a few apps here and there (flight control for .99 cents and geodefense for $3.99 for example). but my point is that i found out about both of these games from a videogame review podcast and website. iphone games are now a regular feature on every major game site. that is big. these games are becoming a real commodity on this platform and the zune hd absolutely needs games and other apps to survive much less thrive.
i don't know why you say iphone/itouch will never wireless sync. the hardware is all there but maybe apple might not unlock that ability, at least not until they use 802.11n or bluetooth 3.0 chipsets. as far the music subscription goes, no , apple will never allow a zune pass to be used on their hardware but there will definitely be a day that they do support streaming subscription services. but that's more of a music industry call than apple's. when they get desperate enough, apple will implement it for them in a big way and make zune pass look like a quaint little idea.
The looney Zune can only survive in the iPhone/iPods shadow. Although, It would make a perfect carnival toy. It's right up there with the fake Elmo doll!
:P
and make zune pass look like a quaint little idea.
as if it's not already a quaint little idea? lol
I've repeatedly said Xbox integration is the key to the zHD's success. Large installed base of xbox gives them a great foot in the door.
BS. How large? if 20% of all Xbox users decide to get the Zune (and this is way too optimistic IMO), how much it will make? Anywhere near 10M per quarter (roughly the non-holiday iPod sales), or more likely 10M per decade.
Oh please. That whole "Apple leading the way" nonsense hasn't been true since the mid 90s. Let's not forget that Windows was first with multi-processor SMP support, and Windows had pre-emptive multi-tasking about 5 years before Mac OS did. OS X still can't even support full hardware video playback, and the multi-display support on Apple notebooks is all messed up. Why do I have to start the system with the lid closed or sleep it and wake it back up to get it to use an external display only? Why can't I choose it in software like Windows has allowed me since ooh.. Windows 98?
Most of the things Apple builds upon are not invented by Apple, but none of the things you mentioned are even remotely pioneered by Microsoft. Think Silicon Graphics (SGI), bunch of other UNIXes, Next and even Apple. As far as multi-display support goes, even XP was more problematic than Mac OS System 7 - System 9 in most cases.
I am amazed how many people on this thread imagine that the device that was demoed is any competition to the iPod. The original Zune had more features on paper than the Zune HD against the iPod at the time but failed miserably. And those "Microsoft will put the cache behind" argument! Do you ever learn? Microsoft was forced to lower the price of the original Zune to match the price of the new iPods back then, but did not sell in meaningful quantities until heavy discounts. When the original Zune was announced, many MS fans were sure it will kill the iPod just because it has the MS money and power behind. It didn't work. Why it will work now? The only purpose of the demo is short-term media buzz IMO, much like the multi-touch Table-PC a couple of years ago. I really doubt that we will see this device as demonstrated. My best guess is that they plan some more features but are afraid to pre-announce them because a subsequent dumping of those features will backfire. Otherwise, this device is targeted to a very, very small market niche.
Yawn ? Did MS say something?
The looney Zune can only survive in the iPhone/iPods shadow. Although, It would make a perfect carnival toy. It's right up there with the fake Elmo doll!
:P
"Step right up! Swing the sledgehammer and make the bell go DING - win a Zune!"
or should it be the prize for most basketballs thrown into an oval-shaped rim? LOL
BS. How large? if 20% of all Xbox users decide to get the Zune (and this is way too optimistic IMO), how much it will make? Anywhere near 10M per quarter (roughly the non-holiday iPod sales), or more likely 10M per decade.
You're arguing my point. I don't think the Zune will ever surpass the Touch. However, it could see a reasonable amount of success (as defined relative to other Zunes / non-apple PMPs) if they make it a compelling companion to Xbox. If 20 percent of Xbox owners buy a zune HD, that's several million units. "Reasonably successful." It's all relative.
Guys, this says more about the poor state of Gizmodo more than anything positive about Microsoft.
You all know that the Zune brand is a major sponsor of Giz now...right?
It seemed to happen just before the last Snowmodo (Giz Ski Meetup). Zune crap everywhere, and now every second story there is nitpicking a percieved flaw in Apple or trumpeting how hip, cool and wonderful Microsotft in general and Zune in particular is.
How can a blog objectively review a product that is an active sponsor??
It is very sad.
thanks, lostkiwi, i didn't know about this. so Giz is just plain whoring.
It's funny you say that, considering the number of people who subscribe to music services numbers in the millions.
And if you want to talk numbers, let's talk about how many copies of Leopard have been sold versus the amount of copies of Vista that have been sold in the same time period
Your arguments always fall flat. No one has been able to make money on the subscription services. It doesn't matter what the actual number is, not enough people are interested, period. You always miss the point...
So there are more Vista copies out there? So?... There are more PCs than Macs so that would make sense. Again your point is?!...
Whatever. It's not about better - it's about something that works- period. if it didn't work people wouldn't use it. Enough said.
People use Windows because they don't know better.
When people I know complain about all the problems they have with their PCs and I ask them why they don't get a Mac, they spew out all the incorrect propaganda they have heard about Macs. It's amazing how consistent they all are. I could record a response and play it back every time.
So there are more Vista copies out there? So?... There are more PCs than Macs so that would make sense. Again your point is?!...
the whole, "call me when OSX outsells windows" argument is such a joke. Most consumers are uneducated / afraid to switch. They're not buying windows because it's better, they're buying it because it's all they know. "Hello, best buy? Yes, i'd like your cheapest computer with a fancy looking LCD monitor. It has Vista? What's that? Oh well, i'll take it anyway, Thanks!"
I was in staples the other day and there was a woman in there looking at some windows box. I actually felt bad for her. I was almost compelled to intervene and educate her a little, but unfortunately some people just don't / won't get it.
Ya I thought of what I said a few minutes after I posted it and realized how I sounded like a buffoon. I'm just reacting to the fact that people are acting as if they don't exist. I can run WM apps from 6 years ago, and if the OS is built around the Windows CE OS then the probability is extremely high they will run fine. But yes, it's hearsay and I'm sorry for contradicting myself the way I did.
The problem is Windows Mobile and zune HD OS are two different versions of Windows CE. The APIs etc. employed by Windows Mobile Apps do not necessarily exist on zHDOS (In fact, almost all of them almost certainly do not, outside of the base Windows CE APIs etc.). Compatibility of WiMo apps with zune HD OS is extremely unlikely.
Anyway, this thing is clearly a better zune with a nicer screen. But you can put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. The smaller (Than iPod touch/iPhone) screen, software and design all put me off. I have an iPod touch, and I for one will be replacing it with a Third Gen iPhone. I suspect more people will do that than buy this zune HD (Which is unlikely to be available here in the UK anyway).
Same goes for the Palm Pre (Except with that device, I can't for the life of me work out why everyone is so excited, it really is as ugly and clunky as any Slider Smartphone or indeed any smartphone featuring a gaudy little thumbpad ever has been)
Not so smart with the idea of a zooming menu that crops the current menu title in half making it unuseful on the top of the screen most of the time. What's up with that, Microsoft?
Not that bad.
So what's the software strategy?
Is this a windows mobile platform device?
... I don't know why I write this post.. I really don't care about the zune at all. Sorry for my half hearted entrance.
Most of the things Apple builds upon are not invented by Apple, but none of the things you mentioned are even remotely pioneered by Microsoft..
Well, let's give credit where credit is due.
Microsoft did bring us the Registry.
Put down the kool-aid drip and become a realist- if window products are all so sheet why do they dominate? People and corporation have had the opportunity to switch for how may years now (after how many "I'm a Mac' your a PC" " commercials forced down our collective throats - and they still haven't switched. Why? The closed eco-system being the main reason. Do I call that shitty- no I don't. You really can't compare the 2- one is open and the other is locked.
Imagine if Windows ran an update which recognized Macs and locked them out. How would Apple windows users react?
Apple is great but this constant vindetta against Windows ( they really shouldn't be compared) is both so idiotic and juvenile.
you say apple is great !!! Thank you.
i will say MSFT sucks .there products pander to the box makers not the people
Since you love mfst so much and there products are soooo good then get the f out here . And go post on there sites .
HEY DUDE .. here you a troll
but at the MSFT sites you would be a god . so leave dude and prosper
Ok this thread is getting completely out of hand with hearsay and rumors and what ifs.
and your comments are even worse.
First off - APPS. Since this is based on Windows CE, the countless Windows Mobile apps that already exist could conceivably run fine on it. If you don't know about them, then don't even bother commenting on this. Otherwise, anyone who actually DOES know about WM apps knows that there are a ton of free apps that do exactly the same thing that paid apps in the app store do.
OMG. those "countless" WinMo apps - let's just consider the current 6.x ones - are nearly all primitive apps for small screens with cursor/keyboard UI that can't run on a touchscreen - so they can't possibly run on the Zilch HD! maybe some new 6.5 WinMo apps could - but MS has not said so or even hinted that, so that would be "hearsay and rumor" - actually pure guesswork on your part. my guess, admittedly, is that MS intends to bring apps to the Zilch next year with WinMo 7 instead, since that will be a much more advanced OS than the obsolete 6.x.
meanwhile, the Touch has got great apps for real - today. end of that story.
Secondly - Stop comparing this thing to the 2009 Touch FFS!!! Rather than sit there and talk about what you think the Touch might have, just focus on what Microsoft has announced the Zune will have. Bringing up rumors and trying to pass them off as nonexistent facts speaks wonders to someone's intelligence.
dude, both the Zilch HD and the 2009 Touch will go on sale at nearly the same time in the fall. everyone is going to compare those two against each other in deciding what to buy whether you approve or not. it would be stupid to compare the Zilch against the 2008 Touch instead. what we know about the 2009 Touch for sure is it will run the iPhone 3.0 software we already have some details about and will learn much more in two weeks. it is fair to say the addition of GPS location services is highly likely, and the addition of a camera is very possible. (a processor speed bump would also be expected since that is the norm.) how do you think the Zilch's new HD radio and 720p output features will stack up against those new Touch features in the marketplace (hint: a blowout of someone).
Finally - XBox integration. 30 Million sold and people here still think this won't be an eye catching feature of the Zune. Amazing.
yes it will catch the eye of a few million teenage boys whose lives revolve around their XBox. will give you that one.
What intrigues me the most with this Zune is the HD video output. With a wifi connection and Orb, I'll be able to stream my hd movies to my friends TV's, not to mention if I simply transfer them to the internal memory of this thing. I've got a fairly large library of movies, and even if they aren't 720p, the zune's native widescreen video output means I won't have to use standard rca cables for a 4:3 display that I crop.
whereas more and more TV makers just let you plug your iPhone/Touch/iPod directly into the TV for playback. as to formats, let's see what outputs the 3.0 OS supports in two weeks.
Bottom line, this is a very decent product, and YES, it WILL give the ipod touch a run for it's money. Anyone who thinks it won't is living in a dream world, a fantasy, a place of myth and legend where Apple gives a crap about you defending them.
yeah, sure.
so your experience of something means that somebody elses experiences must all be false and they must be trolling?
You are right about the troll thing - I retract that statement.
I have to admit that I do doubt the veracity of what he said; I have used PC's and Macs for a long time. Back in the dark ages of OS8 and 9 I switched to PC's because they were indeed more stable. With OSX however I think the tide has turned, at least from my perspective, in favor of Apple's OS once again.