You'll find that the numbers are about the same, and well within the margin of accuracy. I was merely trying to show that 12% isn't either 6% or 18%. If I knew you would be so picky, I would have used the other way of calculating it, which would have given almost the same exact answer, but is more confusing to most people.
I trust that ends this?
It will end it if you stop posting incorrect information.
Anant is correct and you are wrong, The numbers are not the same. You report that the range is 11.3 to 12.7. Anant's figure (8-16%) is correct, given a 4% margin of error.
Error margins are ABSOLUTE, not relative.
Let's take the extreme example. 100 people surveyed and 1 person choses item A. The margin of error is probably around 10% (I didn't bother to calculate it). By your analysis, the answer would always be 1% (actually 0.9 to 1.1%). In reality, with a 10% margin of error, it could be anywhere between 0% and 11%.
The problem is that if you are in a meeting and your wag texts you, you have to look while you type as there is no point of reference. If you have a physical keyboard it is a lot easier to text without being a distraction in a meeting.
aha! hadn't thought of that.
so, what you need are little distinguishing marks on F and J keys which u can physically feel :-)
How about specs of dust carefully positioned under a protector screen?
quick question: do many people have difficulty using the iphones on-screen keyboard? I [?] find the auto-correction on iphone pretty good. but I keep hearing that for email, twitter etc a 'real' keyboard is far better than the iphone's solution.... with a little practice, and especially now with the landscape mode, typing can't be slower on iphone surely?
-D
I've never had any real problem with the virtual keyboard and agree that the auto-correction is pretty good. Landscape mode in more apps is a plus and typing apps like Typing Genius are very helpful for improving accuracy.
so, what you need are little distinguishing marks on F and J keys which u can physically feel :-)
How about specs of dust carefully positioned under a protector screen?
-D
Not that it means anything statistically, but I've never seen anyone 'touch typing' on a phone keyboard. I always see BB (et al) users looking at their keyboard when they type.
"FJ" dimples make sense when you're statically positioning your hands poised over base keys on a full keyboard. I don't see where dimples (or frankly, even a physical keyboard) makes any great difference on a thumbs-typing device.
Tactile feedback may be another issue, but I still think its a matter of what you're used to, and that as time progresses, virtual keyboard will prevail because of its flexibility.
Lets hope Apple does not fall victim to the same thing Motorola did with the RAZR.
Motorola made ONE nice phone. That was it.
The RAZR was/is ONLY a phone with a few extra features. It looked much nicer than the competition. The problem with motorola, is it was a one-shot/one-trick-pony. They had no ultimate plan to push the RAZR.
The iPhone is a PLATFORM and is SO much more than a mere phone, MORE than just nice looking hardware. It's the the OS, the software and the entire iTunes ecosystem. The phone aspect is almost secondary on some levels. Apple has a long term strategy. A strategy that I think we're just beginning to see unfold.
I can't wait until somebody writes "The iPod Story" sometime down the road!
I've never had any real problem with the virtual keyboard and agree that the auto-correction is pretty good. Landscape mode in more apps is a plus and typing apps like Typing Genius are very helpful for improving accuracy.
Is there a typing genius app for the iphone?
(I can't check app store right now, syncing is taking forever, i just bought the "Navigon Mobile Navigator Europe for iPhone" it's got rave reviews in the 3 days since release, it is about 2 GB of map data though, sync will take about hours i'm told.)
It will end it if you stop posting incorrect information.
Anant is correct and you are wrong, The numbers are not the same. You report that the range is 11.3 to 12.7. Anant's figure (8-16%) is correct, given a 4% margin of error.
Error margins are ABSOLUTE, not relative.
Let's take the extreme example. 100 people surveyed and 1 person choses item A. The margin of error is probably around 10% (I didn't bother to calculate it). By your analysis, the answer would always be 1% (actually 0.9 to 1.1%). In reality, with a 10% margin of error, it could be anywhere between 0% and 11%.
Please stop posting misinformation.
So then, the one person who told you item "A", suddenly turns into 11 people? No, it doesn't work that way.
Based on my personal observations I think this trend of eating into the Blackberry market is likely to continue.
Yeah, but that's just marketing talk. I can phrase the survey as --- despite RIM launches a couple of blackberries with well publicized firmware problems, their retention rate is still close to 90%.
It's not "eating" in the blackberry market when blackberries are growing faster than the iphone in eating in the smartphone market share.
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
This is just the first three days. That's always when the fans come out. We need to wait for more meaningful numbers which would come out for the whole month, or even the quarter. That's when the numbers begin to shift away from that fan base to the "normal" buyers.
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
True, but that still means that 44% of 1mil+ are new iPhone users... ~500k new users is decent for opening weekend, no?
One of my friends HATE iPhones... He calls us the "iPhone Douche Club", even though more and more of us are getting them. He's now a storm user... I'm sure once (if) the iPhone goes to Verizon (either through some sort of hybrid 4G system) he'll jump on board. ;-)
quick question: do many people have difficulty using the iphones on-screen keyboard?
back in the day (2001-2003 ish) i had a rim 857 and 957 at the hip and could type blazingly fast on them, even with my fat fingers, and even one-handed.
i've been an apple fan my entire life. and i've been waiting for a primo convergence device to come along. last year i purchased a 3g iphone and returned it. one of the many reasons i returned it was because of the keyboard.
along with lots of other stuff, i've also been waiting for a 32GB device and so this year i bought the 3g s, but more for the 3.0 software than the hardware.
i tried out the pre but they keyboard doesn't work for me.
the iphone's landscape mode keyboard in many instances gives me the ability to type as fast as i've ever been able to on a mobile device, instead of hunting and pecking most of the time. the fact that the potential exists for more contextual keyboards is another bonus.
i gotta say, this is the device i've been waiting for for seven or eight years.
The RAZR was/is ONLY a phone with a few extra features. It looked much nicer than the competition. The problem with motorola, is it was a one-shot/one-trick-pony. They had no ultimate plan to push the RAZR.
The iPhone is a PLATFORM and is SO much more than a mere phone, MORE than just nice looking hardware. It's the the OS, the software and the entire iTunes ecosystem. The phone aspect is almost secondary on some levels. Apple has a long term strategy. A strategy that I think we're just beginning to see unfold.
I can't wait until somebody writes "The iPod Story" sometime down the road!
I would agree, but it is a little more complicated than that.... Motorola sold 150 Million RAZRs world wide, it was the best selling cell phone, however, because "everyone" had one, people were no longer interested in having one.
As countless people pointed out as well as myself, Apple has it target market and will eek out every $ out of that market as they can, then move down the ladder and food chain, at some point people will not longer be interested since it not different.
Unlike computer which tend to hid under the desk, (until apple came along) cell phones are more of a fashion statement and show others they are important. So the question is will the iphone fall to the same tend, maybe, or maybe and maybe people will related more to what the phone can do then about how they appear to others.
I know plenty of people who ask my wife how she likes her iphone, wish they could afford it or justify it, then they went out and got a blackberry since they could get a deal on it.
I use to get the same thing with my RAZR, people would ask me about it all the time say how cool it was and wish they could afford one. Gave it to my son to use and now his friends laugh that he got a RAZR, it so uncool now. They do not have iphones, they got the phones with keyboard, that is cool to them.
This is just the first three days. That's always when the fans come out. We need to wait for more meaningful numbers which would come out for the whole month, or even the quarter. That's when the numbers begin to shift away from that fan base to the "normal" buyers.
The problem is that from the history of the 2 previous iphones --- it's always like this:
First 3 days --- big numbers.
July-Sept quarter --- big numbers.
Oct-Dec quarter --- sales stalled (at July-Sept level) in the busy christmas quarter.
Jan-Mar quarter --- big drop off in sales.
Apr-June quarter (minus a week or week) --- "ran out of old gen iphones" and sales numbers are a decimal point.
I would agree, but it is a little more complicated than that.... Motorola sold 150 Million RAZRs world wide, it was the best selling cell phone, however, because "everyone" had one, people were no longer interested in having one.
As countless people pointed out as well as myself, Apple has it target market and will eek out every $ out of that market as they can, then move down the ladder and food chain, at some point people will not longer be interested since it not different.
Unlike computer which tend to hid under the desk, (until apple came along) cell phones are more of a fashion statement and show others they are important. So the question is will the iphone fall to the same tend, maybe, or maybe and maybe people will related more to what the phone can do then about how they appear to others.
I know plenty of people who ask my wife how she likes her iphone, wish they could afford it or justify it, then they went out and got a blackberry since they could get a deal on it.
I use to get the same thing with my RAZR, people would ask me about it all the time say how cool it was and wish they could afford one. Gave it to my son to use and now his friends laugh that he got a RAZR, it so uncool now. They do not have iphones, they got the phones with keyboard, that is cool to them.
I think it's a bit more than that. The Razr was bought for one reason, the thinness. It was radical at the time, and everyone wants thin (ok, except for a few old codgers here).
But beyond that, there wasn't much to like about the phone. The later models expanded on the features, but it still wasn't much special.
Smartphones are very different. Apple is expanding the usefulness of the phone in many directions. It can do much that we didn't think a phone would do at all. The app store helps to move those sales.
As long as Apple can stay ahead, they won't have a problem.
As for competing in the $50 bracket, well, not for a time.
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
So what going to happen to these old phones, they are going to turn into hand me downs before you know it.
Like in my case, the wife will upgrade, since she maxed out the current iPhone and wants more power that 3.0 and 3G (S) will offer her. The question is what do we do with the current iphone, obvious one of the kids want it, but I am not interested in paying $70 a month for them to use, so I considering cracking it and add it as an $9.99 phone on the wife plan, they do not need all the data anyway.
I think you will see more an more of this and you do not have data plan part of the value of the phone goes away.
Comments
Not at all, I never lost a thumb wrestling match if that tells you anything. ...
You'll find that the numbers are about the same, and well within the margin of accuracy. I was merely trying to show that 12% isn't either 6% or 18%. If I knew you would be so picky, I would have used the other way of calculating it, which would have given almost the same exact answer, but is more confusing to most people.
I trust that ends this?
It will end it if you stop posting incorrect information.
Anant is correct and you are wrong, The numbers are not the same. You report that the range is 11.3 to 12.7. Anant's figure (8-16%) is correct, given a 4% margin of error.
Error margins are ABSOLUTE, not relative.
Let's take the extreme example. 100 people surveyed and 1 person choses item A. The margin of error is probably around 10% (I didn't bother to calculate it). By your analysis, the answer would always be 1% (actually 0.9 to 1.1%). In reality, with a 10% margin of error, it could be anywhere between 0% and 11%.
Please stop posting misinformation.
The problem is that if you are in a meeting and your wag texts you, you have to look while you type as there is no point of reference. If you have a physical keyboard it is a lot easier to text without being a distraction in a meeting.
aha! hadn't thought of that.
so, what you need are little distinguishing marks on F and J keys which u can physically feel :-)
How about specs of dust carefully positioned under a protector screen?
-D
Une autre culture...
quick question: do many people have difficulty using the iphones on-screen keyboard? I [?] find the auto-correction on iphone pretty good. but I keep hearing that for email, twitter etc a 'real' keyboard is far better than the iphone's solution.... with a little practice, and especially now with the landscape mode, typing can't be slower on iphone surely?
-D
I've never had any real problem with the virtual keyboard and agree that the auto-correction is pretty good. Landscape mode in more apps is a plus and typing apps like Typing Genius are very helpful for improving accuracy.
aha! hadn't thought of that.
so, what you need are little distinguishing marks on F and J keys which u can physically feel :-)
How about specs of dust carefully positioned under a protector screen?
-D
Not that it means anything statistically, but I've never seen anyone 'touch typing' on a phone keyboard. I always see BB (et al) users looking at their keyboard when they type.
"FJ" dimples make sense when you're statically positioning your hands poised over base keys on a full keyboard. I don't see where dimples (or frankly, even a physical keyboard) makes any great difference on a thumbs-typing device.
Tactile feedback may be another issue, but I still think its a matter of what you're used to, and that as time progresses, virtual keyboard will prevail because of its flexibility.
?people [?] with iPhones send much longer messages [?] than people with other phones?
That's definitely me!!
Lets hope Apple does not fall victim to the same thing Motorola did with the RAZR.
Motorola made ONE nice phone. That was it.
The RAZR was/is ONLY a phone with a few extra features. It looked much nicer than the competition. The problem with motorola, is it was a one-shot/one-trick-pony. They had no ultimate plan to push the RAZR.
The iPhone is a PLATFORM and is SO much more than a mere phone, MORE than just nice looking hardware. It's the the OS, the software and the entire iTunes ecosystem. The phone aspect is almost secondary on some levels. Apple has a long term strategy. A strategy that I think we're just beginning to see unfold.
I can't wait until somebody writes "The iPod Story" sometime down the road!
I've never had any real problem with the virtual keyboard and agree that the auto-correction is pretty good. Landscape mode in more apps is a plus and typing apps like Typing Genius are very helpful for improving accuracy.
Is there a typing genius app for the iphone?
(I can't check app store right now, syncing is taking forever, i just bought the "Navigon Mobile Navigator Europe for iPhone" it's got rave reviews in the 3 days since release, it is about 2 GB of map data though, sync will take about hours i'm told.)
It will end it if you stop posting incorrect information.
Anant is correct and you are wrong, The numbers are not the same. You report that the range is 11.3 to 12.7. Anant's figure (8-16%) is correct, given a 4% margin of error.
Error margins are ABSOLUTE, not relative.
Let's take the extreme example. 100 people surveyed and 1 person choses item A. The margin of error is probably around 10% (I didn't bother to calculate it). By your analysis, the answer would always be 1% (actually 0.9 to 1.1%). In reality, with a 10% margin of error, it could be anywhere between 0% and 11%.
Please stop posting misinformation.
So then, the one person who told you item "A", suddenly turns into 11 people? No, it doesn't work that way.
Based on my personal observations I think this trend of eating into the Blackberry market is likely to continue.
Yeah, but that's just marketing talk. I can phrase the survey as --- despite RIM launches a couple of blackberries with well publicized firmware problems, their retention rate is still close to 90%.
It's not "eating" in the blackberry market when blackberries are growing faster than the iphone in eating in the smartphone market share.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
This is just the first three days. That's always when the fans come out. We need to wait for more meaningful numbers which would come out for the whole month, or even the quarter. That's when the numbers begin to shift away from that fan base to the "normal" buyers.
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
This is especially of concern to AT&T, their greatest reward is in acquiring a new customer, not just upselling an existing one.
In some ways this may point to a weakness in Apple's single-provider strategy in the USA. By relying on just AT&T they're limiting themselves. Long term they need to move to add at least a 2nd provider in markets like the USA if they want to gain significantly more market share. My own guess is that they're waiting for 4G (next year???) to add Verizon to the mix so that they don't have to support different chip sets.
True, but that still means that 44% of 1mil+ are new iPhone users... ~500k new users is decent for opening weekend, no?
One of my friends HATE iPhones... He calls us the "iPhone Douche Club", even though more and more of us are getting them. He's now a storm user... I'm sure once (if) the iPhone goes to Verizon (either through some sort of hybrid 4G system) he'll jump on board. ;-)
quick question: do many people have difficulty using the iphones on-screen keyboard?
back in the day (2001-2003 ish) i had a rim 857 and 957 at the hip and could type blazingly fast on them, even with my fat fingers, and even one-handed.
i've been an apple fan my entire life. and i've been waiting for a primo convergence device to come along. last year i purchased a 3g iphone and returned it. one of the many reasons i returned it was because of the keyboard.
along with lots of other stuff, i've also been waiting for a 32GB device and so this year i bought the 3g s, but more for the 3.0 software than the hardware.
i tried out the pre but they keyboard doesn't work for me.
the iphone's landscape mode keyboard in many instances gives me the ability to type as fast as i've ever been able to on a mobile device, instead of hunting and pecking most of the time. the fact that the potential exists for more contextual keyboards is another bonus.
i gotta say, this is the device i've been waiting for for seven or eight years.
Motorola made ONE nice phone. That was it.
The RAZR was/is ONLY a phone with a few extra features. It looked much nicer than the competition. The problem with motorola, is it was a one-shot/one-trick-pony. They had no ultimate plan to push the RAZR.
The iPhone is a PLATFORM and is SO much more than a mere phone, MORE than just nice looking hardware. It's the the OS, the software and the entire iTunes ecosystem. The phone aspect is almost secondary on some levels. Apple has a long term strategy. A strategy that I think we're just beginning to see unfold.
I can't wait until somebody writes "The iPod Story" sometime down the road!
I would agree, but it is a little more complicated than that.... Motorola sold 150 Million RAZRs world wide, it was the best selling cell phone, however, because "everyone" had one, people were no longer interested in having one.
As countless people pointed out as well as myself, Apple has it target market and will eek out every $ out of that market as they can, then move down the ladder and food chain, at some point people will not longer be interested since it not different.
Unlike computer which tend to hid under the desk, (until apple came along) cell phones are more of a fashion statement and show others they are important. So the question is will the iphone fall to the same tend, maybe, or maybe and maybe people will related more to what the phone can do then about how they appear to others.
I know plenty of people who ask my wife how she likes her iphone, wish they could afford it or justify it, then they went out and got a blackberry since they could get a deal on it.
I use to get the same thing with my RAZR, people would ask me about it all the time say how cool it was and wish they could afford one. Gave it to my son to use and now his friends laugh that he got a RAZR, it so uncool now. They do not have iphones, they got the phones with keyboard, that is cool to them.
This is just the first three days. That's always when the fans come out. We need to wait for more meaningful numbers which would come out for the whole month, or even the quarter. That's when the numbers begin to shift away from that fan base to the "normal" buyers.
The problem is that from the history of the 2 previous iphones --- it's always like this:
First 3 days --- big numbers.
July-Sept quarter --- big numbers.
Oct-Dec quarter --- sales stalled (at July-Sept level) in the busy christmas quarter.
Jan-Mar quarter --- big drop off in sales.
Apr-June quarter (minus a week or week) --- "ran out of old gen iphones" and sales numbers are a decimal point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
?people [?] with iPhones send much longer messages [?] than people with other phones?
That's definitely me!!
And usually with proper capitalization and punctuation.
I would agree, but it is a little more complicated than that.... Motorola sold 150 Million RAZRs world wide, it was the best selling cell phone, however, because "everyone" had one, people were no longer interested in having one.
As countless people pointed out as well as myself, Apple has it target market and will eek out every $ out of that market as they can, then move down the ladder and food chain, at some point people will not longer be interested since it not different.
Unlike computer which tend to hid under the desk, (until apple came along) cell phones are more of a fashion statement and show others they are important. So the question is will the iphone fall to the same tend, maybe, or maybe and maybe people will related more to what the phone can do then about how they appear to others.
I know plenty of people who ask my wife how she likes her iphone, wish they could afford it or justify it, then they went out and got a blackberry since they could get a deal on it.
I use to get the same thing with my RAZR, people would ask me about it all the time say how cool it was and wish they could afford one. Gave it to my son to use and now his friends laugh that he got a RAZR, it so uncool now. They do not have iphones, they got the phones with keyboard, that is cool to them.
I think it's a bit more than that. The Razr was bought for one reason, the thinness. It was radical at the time, and everyone wants thin (ok, except for a few old codgers here).
But beyond that, there wasn't much to like about the phone. The later models expanded on the features, but it still wasn't much special.
Smartphones are very different. Apple is expanding the usefulness of the phone in many directions. It can do much that we didn't think a phone would do at all. The app store helps to move those sales.
As long as Apple can stay ahead, they won't have a problem.
As for competing in the $50 bracket, well, not for a time.
I agree with Tim here:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348658,00.asp
The article tried to put a positive spin in it, but if 56% of the customers are already iPhone owners, Apple & ATT are ultimately taking less and less market share away from competitors. Granted, launch days tend to attract the loyal hard-core customers, but the goal needs to be expanding market share, not maintaining the base. It also seems many users are moving up to the family plan with multiple iPhones in the same household.
So what going to happen to these old phones, they are going to turn into hand me downs before you know it.
Like in my case, the wife will upgrade, since she maxed out the current iPhone and wants more power that 3.0 and 3G (S) will offer her. The question is what do we do with the current iphone, obvious one of the kids want it, but I am not interested in paying $70 a month for them to use, so I considering cracking it and add it as an $9.99 phone on the wife plan, they do not need all the data anyway.
I think you will see more an more of this and you do not have data plan part of the value of the phone goes away.