Steve Ballmer laughs off Google's Chrome OS threat

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  • Reply 81 of 143
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    I don't think the failure of Linux netbooks is about the apps. Chrome OS is theoretically going to support x86 apps anyway, but even if it didn't and only supported online apps that opened and saved Office files it would be the same thing for the user.



    It's always about the apps. That's the reason most given as to why Mac adoption hasn't been higher. It's not really the price of the machines.



    Chrome will theoretically do a lot of things. Theoretically!



    But no one has seen Chrome yet. So far it's vaporware. Even Google won't discuss details. I'm not so sure they even know what it will be if it comes out.



    With at least a year before we see what might charitably be called a beta, we can't even speak to how well it will work.



    Quote:

    The problem with Linux is it's a confusing mess. It's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I am in IT and do a lot of techie things. I have in the past been a Windows expert and now I'm a full-time Mac expert but I find Linux to be confusing annoying crap in terms of the UI and actually getting anything done.



    The Linux guys (some are friends of mine), will say that it's not that hard and it really isn't if you spend the time to learn it. But the problem is the user just wants to get their email. They don't want to learn how to manage their hardware and software and they don't want to spend all day configuring tricky little things.



    It was interesting when computers first came out to get into all the little details and build your own etc. I did it myself for years. But today, people want a computer that they can turn on and use. Like a TV. This evolution has happened with every significant consumer product of the last century. Cars, Radios, TVs etc.



    No one wants to (nor should they need to) look at configuration files all day long when they really just want to send an email or look at a video clip.



    I play with various distro's of Linux from time to time, going way back to the beginning. Quite frankly, I've never been impressed.



    They understand quite well that in order to be recognized by those they want to get to use it, that it has to look and feel somewhat familiar. So they copied the Windows look and feel.



    So it's clunky, and about two to three versions behind GUIwise, because these guys are always fighting about what to do and how to do it.



    That's one reason why Linux will always be the problem child of the OS's. There are an awful lot of big ego's in Linuxland, and they don't agree on most things.



    But because of the desire to make it look like Windows they pass up the chance to really create something new and different that they can point to and say; "It's better."



    The worst is Torvald himself. The guy has a really big mouth, and has been holding it back for years. His opposition to the ver 3.0 kernel has caused no end of problems, and his opposition to changing the license has caused more.



    It's also a joke about the fight between KDE and Ubuntu. Both have together, about a 60% share of the non-business distro environment. The rest consists of, what, 100 or so smaller distro's?



    Without a unified Linux based OS, this will never go anywhere.



    But thats the one idea that Linux people hate more than anything else, so it's not likely to happen.



    Another problem is licensing. Most are totally against that idea of licensing formats. So we get few things that will run on Linux, shrinking their universe even more when compared to the rich ecologies of both OS X and Windows.



    The only advantages to Linux for those who use it is that it's cheap, and they can make it act however they want.



    But that's just for the geeks. No one else cares about that. I love it when some people write that they've got it working for their grandmas. They don't tell us that (assuming it's true at all) all grandma is using is a browser.



    This is addition to all the problems you brought up.
  • Reply 82 of 143
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    It's interesting how much of a push MS is making with Azure on one side, and poo-pooing Chrome OS on the other. To be honest, I think Apple has the most to lose with cloud computing pushing closer to mainstream. MS is trying to undercut Amazon's prices, which should suggest that they take the market very seriously.



    I wonder how long it will take MS to create a browser based OS themselves...



    I have no clue but perhaps the new Apple investment in the Carolinas is related to a plan for cloud computing for Mac users?
  • Reply 83 of 143
    djpadzdjpadz Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post


    Throw in VisiCalc (which was released with the source code) and we have a winner!



    VisiCalc was (IIRC) the first spreadsheet program to gain large amounts of traction, but I don't think Microsoft ever bought it. Shortly after it came out, MS had a competing product called MultiPlan, which was released on the competing platforms of the day (Apple II, DOS, C-64, CP/M, etc.). Now, on the Windows side, I can't remember if Microsoft bought Excel from another company, but certainly many of the more modern ideas in it were lifted from a product called Wingz, which was published by Informix. Besides doing a lot of things, like graphing, much better than the then-current incarnation of Excel, it was also available on UNIX platforms, which made it a very compelling solution in engineering and educational environments.
  • Reply 84 of 143
    justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    The raging lunatic of ballzer goes too far many times. It wouldn't surprise me if he killed his wife and kids and set fire to himself if chrome succeeds.



    Based on what I have seen of Ballmer's temperament, I could see him killing his wife and kids. But he wouldn't set fire to himself. He would set fire to one of his underlings.



    Too much of a megalomaniac to do any serious damage to himself.
  • Reply 85 of 143
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Actually, the Xbox is now working out very well. If you look at their last quarterly results, the entertainment division with the Xbox bolstered their bottom line nicely.



    Their recent quarterly loss (what was it, first in like 20 years?) would have been much worse without the Xbox. Quite a role reversal...



    If you count the $1.3 billion MS had to put aside for the unexpected warrantee costs, which is thought to be too little, long term, those results are reversed.



    MS didn't have a quarterly loss. They just made a billion or so less profit, so it was down to what, $7 billion for the quarter?
  • Reply 86 of 143
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,113member
    Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. - Santayana



    The entire Microsoft organization would do well to study the example of General Motors.



    Those who place all the blame on Ballmer are being myopic. He expresses views that must be widely shared throughout the Microsoft culture. It's a culture that has grown fat, dumb and happy on the widespread adoption of what history will judge as a second-rate operating system - bloated yet eternally vulnerable to intrusion and vandalism. What will they do when consumer frustration and indifference overtakes their introduction of new products that incorporate all of the old, systematic flaws?



    What will ultimately happen is that consumers will turn to products that offer true value - consistent performance, simplicity, reliability and durability. It's what happened in the global automotive marketplace and led to the fall of two giant American automakers.



    Microsoft people better quit gorging on the nectar and look out for what's coming up from the rear to sting them to death. They need to be frightened - very frightened.
  • Reply 87 of 143
    htoellehtoelle Posts: 89member
    Mr Ballmer a suggestion you might consider. Compliments my driving instructor slightly modified though.



    "Please ensure to start Brain before putting Mouth into gear"
  • Reply 88 of 143
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post


    Linux can already do this. There are plenty of distros which run off a live CD without installing anything on your disk. There are also versions that run under Windows to give you a look and feel.



    Prejudices and habits die hard. Microsoft is not in the primary business of selling computers or browsers. Silverlight is their vision of what should be done on the web.



    I never said it failed due to technical limitations, it's a public perception problem. There is just no way for that perception to change until someone takes Linux under PR umbrella of a big name corporation. That was my point, that Google might just have enough clout with the general public to actually make a name for an alternative OS, where as Linux has remained fairly divided & scattered.



    Ubuntu has made many leaps & bounds in this area, but how many people if you asked would really know who Canonical is.
  • Reply 89 of 143
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrtotes View Post


    I think OS X will probably suffer more to Chrome OS than MS will. People will still be force fed MS at work but at home they can by a cheap PC with Chrome OS with Google goodness integrated or splash out more for a MS PC or even more for a Mac. Most consumers want value rather than the best.



    I think they will suffer no more to Chrome OS than iPhone suffered to Android. The game changer is who Google plans to go after, & since it is netbooks then that is a market Apple isn't competing in anyway.
  • Reply 90 of 143
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macdanboy View Post


    He's laughing because he know just like he can't buy out Apple, he can't buy out Google and end the threat of the competition. Microsoft is to busy trying to fix Vista and figure out how they can milk Office 2009/2010/2011.



    I sure wish Apple would put more money and time into iWork. Have iwork lite for the consumer maybe and a pro version for industry. Maybe even write it cross platform. My Office X is growing hair.
  • Reply 91 of 143
    inkswampinkswamp Posts: 337member
    You just know all the chairs on the Microsoft campus are running for cover.
  • Reply 92 of 143
    You know, I have to wonder how long this sort of ignore and chase behavior the board of directors for MS will allow this to go on. Balmer may think he's in charge - but there is that pesky board to report to.
  • Reply 93 of 143
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post


    I sure wish Apple would put more money and time into iWork. Have iwork lite for the consumer maybe and a pro version for industry. Maybe even write it cross platform. My Office X is growing hair.



    Agreed. All iApps (iLife and iWork) need Pro counterparts as for example we have now with iMovie / FCPro . I'd love a Pro version of iWeb for example.
  • Reply 94 of 143
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ibgarrett View Post


    You know, I have to wonder how long this sort of ignore and chase behavior the board of directors for MS will allow this to go on. Balmer may think he's in charge - but there is that pesky board to report to.



    With Gates the largest stockholder, and Ballmer the second largest, with both owning considerable chunks of stock, is the board really going to intimidate him? I don't think so. His blunder would have to be so outrageous that they would have no choice so that it would be politically viable.
  • Reply 95 of 143
    jpklockjpklock Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Lets look at Star Office from Sun. Completely compatible with Office, and far cheaper. It's free alternative, OpenOffice is also available.



    Both are more than viable, they're complete replacements, one is free.



    But how much marketshare have they taken? Almost 0%. Why? Because they're really NOT viable, because people don't want them. They want the real thing, even if it costs far more. And if not that, then they can get Student/Teacher edition for much less.



    I'm a high school teacher, and the technology coordinator at my school... Of the few hundred students I've interviewed about their technology usage, fewer than 1% use a legally-licensed version of Microsoft Office on their home computers.



    If they have access to a bootleg / pirated / otherwise free copy of Office, they'll install and use that. If not, they'll use OpenOffice (as of April, about 3%).



    Sure, that's just young people, who don't have a lot of money, and a very small sample size, at that-- but I wouldn't be at all surprised if these students are characteristic of the next 2-3 years of trend...
  • Reply 96 of 143
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpklock View Post


    I'm a high school teacher, and the technology coordinator at my school... Of the few hundred students I've interviewed about their technology usage, fewer than 1% use a legally-licensed version of Microsoft Office on their home computers.



    If they have access to a bootleg / pirated / otherwise free copy of Office, they'll install and use that. If not, they'll use OpenOffice (as of April, about 3%).



    Sure, that's just young people, who don't have a lot of money, and a very small sample size, at that-- but I wouldn't be at all surprised if these students are characteristic of the next 2-3 years of trend...



    Unfortunately, they are. And many companies give their employees copies to use at home.



    Over the years, people coming to my home would use my Mac for a while, and would tell me that they would switch, buying the Mac wasn't a deal breaker even though it was more expensive?but I would have to give them the software. I declined.



    These days, many of those same people do have Macs, and bought their own software.



    The desirability quotient went up for them.
  • Reply 97 of 143
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Lot's of people know it exists. For example, most people here know it exists for the Mac as well. For a while, it's even been as a native OS X app. How many use it as opposed to iWork or Office? Almost none.



    Business knows these apps exist. Much software used at home is known and used because business uses it. Yet, businesses almost never do use it, so people at home don't.



    Yet it's free.



    As a percentage of the general populous I think a very small number of people know about opensource office apps like openoffice.org.



    The real issue with openoffice is that it comes with very little prepackaged bells & whistles. MS Office & iWork come with lots of templates & the interfaces are really much more intuitive than openoffice.org.



    I'm sure many of you will disagree but we're working with a populous that in large part won't use an app that takes them more than 3 steps to get going on. People want simplicity & to date opensource is still doing a lot of catchup in this area.
  • Reply 98 of 143
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post


    As a percentage of the general populous I think a very small number of people know about opensource office apps like openoffice.org.



    The real issue with openoffice is that it comes with very little prepackaged bells & whistles. MS Office & iWork come with lots of templates & the interfaces are really much more intuitive than openoffice.org.



    I'm sure many of you will disagree but we're working with a populous that in large part won't use an app that takes them more than 3 steps to get going on. People want simplicity & to date opensource is still doing a lot of catchup in this area.



    Student/Teacher lacks most of the extras, that's why it's so much cheaper.



    My point was that people use what they use at work. This isn't used at work.



    But, here, and on most other online forums, people do know about it, and yet, almost none use it. That says a lot, as most people coming to all these forums like to consider themselves a savvy lot. If they aren't using it, then what hope is there?
  • Reply 99 of 143
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You're giving too much credit to consumers.



    Most consumers use Windows and its associated software because they use it at work, and are familiar with it, in addition to the fact that they can often get it free from their employer.



    That's almost the only reason other than the fact that PC's are made at cheaper levels.



    When I did much work for the school system in past years, parents were almost violent against having Macs in school because they used PC's at work. They tried to insist that their kids needed to use PC's in school, even elementary school, so that they would be able to use them at work when they got older. That diminished greatly over the past few years as Mac sales have prospered and have shown up at work as well.



    There is no interest in using Linux in schools, or, for the most part, in business. Linux desktop use has hovered from below 1% to about 1% and back in the US for years now, while the Mac has grown considerably. I know that Linux users like to think differently, but as far as OS's on the internet goes, Linux is still around 1%.



    Almost everyone has heard about Linux, but as soon as they buy a computer with Linux on it, such as netbooks, which should be the easiest way to get on Linux because netbooks have the least computing demands, what do they do? They return the machines.



    Many of these machines already have had OpenOffice installed, along with other open source software that is perfectly usable. But they want their own apps, and they can't have them. So, back to the store.



    It's been mentioned that it's driver problems. Well, that's just another nail in the coffin.



    This is about as much a closed environment as you could ever hope to get for a Linux foothold, but it didn't work.



    I read articles in OSnews about how Linux netbooks were going to be the gateway to the consumers heart, and lead to the big breakthrough that Linux people have been predicting for almost a decade now.



    But it was a major flop. Now there are some articles about what went wrong.



    It's simple, you can't force an OS, or software, on people who don't want it.



    Most people want Windows and its software. An increasing number want OS X and its software.



    It's also interesting that over the past few years, and increasingly so after the Intel move by Apple, that some of the best known writers on the Linux scene publicly moved to OS X.



    I really don't see Chrome, which won't be out for at least a year as being any different. And we all know Google. Will this ever get out of beta?



    Again, no big name behind the OS like Chrome will have. Not only that but the netbook Linux distros weren't uniform, they were all customized & the included e-mail/office apps were all pulled together as is from opensource.



    Google on the other hand has a very nice & clean looking set of online office apps that should work great for most users (they are much cleaner & easier to use than MS Office). If they can solve the issues like lack of quicktime or iTunes support then they will be off to a good start. Then again who knows, for all we know Apple may secretly develop a version of iTunes/Quicktime for Chrome OS, I wouldn't be totally shocked or surprised.
  • Reply 100 of 143
    He is in need of an afternoon of Electro-Shock Treatment. Then maybe he'll come out of the coma he's been in for years..
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