New Apple Mac ad features familiar face, Blu-ray PC adoption low

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 93
    djrumpydjrumpy Posts: 1,116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aresee View Post


    Are SD cards too small for retail? While reading the posts on SD cards my mind was flashing on the number of movies that were "walking" out of the store. SD cards may be to easily hid to make them practical in a retail environment.



    Easy enough to simply put the SD cards behind glass. Hand them out when they are purchased. Pretty much any electronics store keeps the small stuff under lock and key.
  • Reply 62 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    I agree, SD is going to rule.

    With 2TB SDXC cards having twice the access speed of a 7,200 RPM hard drive...cheap, thin and portable. BlueRay is doomed as a storage medium for computers, even SSD and RAMs life is suddenly looking sort of bleak.



    SD will be also in future ten times more expensive than optical format with same capasity,

    so SD will not be economical for large distribution for big data (=movies), maybe with music & software, but not movies.

    It will take only few years when they release BD2 with 200GB for 3D-movies with 2k resolution.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Watching BlueRay movies on computers? Might be shifted to a third party device instead or a new kind of disk scanner that reads the whole disk without having to spin it and waste valuable space and energy.



    Won't happen.

    The original reason to spin the disk was that it is easier to move the disk than "the scanner".

    Nothing has changed with that and will not change for a few decades.
  • Reply 63 of 93
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post


    SD will be also in future ten times more expensive than optical format with same capasity,

    so SD will not be economical for large distribution for big data (=movies), maybe with music & software, but not movies.

    It will take only few years when they release BD2 with 200GB for 3D-movies with 2k resolution.



    Won't happen.

    The original reason to spin the disk was that it is easier to move the disk than "the scanner".

    Nothing has changed with that and will not change for a few decades.



    Optical is so last century. As with spinning a disc, like a previous poster mentioned. How about a *read-only* SD-card-like thingy with 64GB of storage? Boom! Die BluRay disc! In fact, the latest and greatest BluRay movies, what do you need, about 25GB? a 32GB *read-only* format, probably a variant of SD-card(?) is all one needs. WTF is up with another big hunking clunker called a standalone BluRay player.



    A few years ago, "the greatest cinema experience ~ a high definition movie all in one disc" is easily outdated. Imagine... "the greatest cinema high-definition experience... movies on a thin card smaller than your thumb".



    Flash memory itself is getting so cheap. Most of the cost of BluRay is all sorts of royalty stuff and the movie industry still not fully "getting it". Sell 720p and 1080p online with no ads. Stream it with ads. Sell it cheaper with ads. Whatever. Then sell physical media on read-only flash memory. Of course, lifetime of said read-only flash memory has to be improved in terms of "archival quality", that is, last 20 years, in 10 years anyway BluRay is outdated with RedRay and other media digital and physical that will give us 2K and 4K resolution film/video content. In 2020 one's BluRay collection one painstakingly built up will look like VHS tapes do now.
  • Reply 64 of 93
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Sure, but that wall is far, far away yet. Stamping out optical discs mechanically will have a significant manufacturing advantage over putting movies on SD cards for quite some time to come.



    But the percentage of cost of using read-only flash memory compared to the retail price of a "high definition movie on physical media" will be very, very low.



    And it creates enormous benefits on the consumer side in the flexibility of accessing high definition physical media. You don't need big clunky disc players, or a Sony PS3 (which is really massive for a modern entertainment device - just because it's meant to be in the living room doesn't mean it should be the size of a kitchen appliance).



    For PCs and laptops it means you don't need big, thick, expensive, moving-part-prone-to-failure chunky disc readers.



    BluRay is not dead but looks like it was Born Too Slow.



    Another thought: which is more environmentally friendly. That I'm not too sure. But plastic discs... Anyway 1080p and 720p via download. And the world will be less cluttered with physical media. Except for the hard disks and energy and internetz and.... OH WTF I'm lost now.
  • Reply 65 of 93
    successsuccess Posts: 1,039member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post


    By the way, I have a PC, and haven't had a virus yet. Free software for AV and Firewall, and when I turn on the computer, "it just works". If you do it right, you won't have any problems at all.



    Do you realize how stupid that sounds?



    "Btw, I haven't got broken into yet. The police outside my door and the two dobermans, plus the barbed wire barricade and when I open my door, "it just opens". If you protect yourself right, you won't have any break ins at all.
  • Reply 66 of 93
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    You don't need big clunky disc players, or a Sony PS3 (which is really massive for a modern entertainment device - just because it's meant to be in the living room doesn't mean it should be the size of a kitchen appliance).



    Go to Wal-Mart and check out how small DVD players are. Blu-ray will eventually be that small. Any smaller than that really isn't a benefit for my living room. And you are also missing the point in earlier posts, you still need to keep that "big clunky" optical disc player around to play your old content. So all you are doing is adding to the clutter, not reducing it. (Another reason Apple needs to find a way to play my DVDs on AppleTV...to reduce the clutter of devices connected to my TV.)



    Just because on paper it looks technically superior doesn't mean it will ever catch on. There are a lot of practical considerations around trying to transition consumers to a drastically different format that has no backward compatibility.
  • Reply 67 of 93
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post


    ...



    By the way, I have a PC, and haven't had a virus yet. Free software for AV and Firewall, and when I turn on the computer, "it just works". If you do it right, you won't have any problems at all.

    My macs however, my permissions have gotten all screwed up multiple times. Kinda sucks when you can't get into your own files and have to go fix it in disk utility (which half the time failed, so I had to fix it via terminal). Same thing as a PC though, if you do it right, you won't have any problems.



    But, a Mac can have just as many issues as a Windows based PC.



    So, when is Apple going to lodge against Linux?



    Well, that's probably true and my work-issued Dell laptop doesn't seem to have any virus issues, either (at least I don't think so).



    However, my wife keeps getting spam where it's clear that her e-mail address has been harvested by bots infecting friends' computers. Those aren't Macs being infected and I think we all know that there's never been a true working bot that's done that to an OS X machine.
  • Reply 68 of 93
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    But the percentage of cost of using read-only flash memory compared to the retail price of a "high definition movie on physical media" will be very, very low.



    And it creates enormous benefits on the consumer side in the flexibility of accessing high definition physical media. You don't need big clunky disc players, or a Sony PS3 (which is really massive for a modern entertainment device - just because it's meant to be in the living room doesn't mean it should be the size of a kitchen appliance).



    For PCs and laptops it means you don't need big, thick, expensive, moving-part-prone-to-failure chunky disc readers.



    BluRay is not dead but looks like it was Born Too Slow.



    Another thought: which is more environmentally friendly. That I'm not too sure. But plastic discs... Anyway 1080p and 720p via download. And the world will be less cluttered with physical media. Except for the hard disks and energy and internetz and.... OH WTF I'm lost now.



    you must have missed the PS3 Slim news. it just hit the shelves at best Buy. $299 and includes a full Blu-Ray player in it.



    The X-Box 360 has Netflix functionality built into it and is also $299 for the Elite version.
  • Reply 69 of 93
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Optical is so last century. As with spinning a disc, like a previous poster mentioned. How about a *read-only* SD-card-like thingy with 64GB of storage? Boom! Die BluRay disc! In fact, the latest and greatest BluRay movies, what do you need, about 25GB? a 32GB *read-only* format, probably a variant of SD-card(?) is all one needs. WTF is up with another big hunking clunker called a standalone BluRay player.



    Your arguments are based on something which does not exist currently and has never existed - silicon based memory being cheaper than disc.



    Production cost of a Bluray disc of 25gb - $1.49 whereas a 32gb SDHC card is about $70 currently.



    It is not about convenience for the user, it's about cost of production for the producers.



    They would rather fob the high cost of the players onto the end users than see the slightest rise in their production costs.



    Quote:

    Flash memory itself is getting so cheap.



    Not cheaper than disc by a wide margin.



    Quote:

    in 10 years anyway BluRay is outdated with RedRay



    No, Red Ray is what we had with CD's and DVD's. BluRay was the replacement because the shorter wavelength of light allowed a higher density of information storage.



    AquaRay (blue + Green) disc is the next step, using holographic technology to give 6 TB per disc with data transfer of 1 Gbit/s



    Sorry, you were saying?
  • Reply 70 of 93
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,426member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skottichan View Post


    Noooooooo!!!





    Brock effing Samson can't be a PC!!





    I have to admit, with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth here and on MacRumors about how Apple's hamstringing buyers with a lack of a Blu-Ray option, I'd figured the PC adoption rate would be significantly higher. Personally, it's no BFD to me since most of the Blu-Ray's I've bought recently (Coraline, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern) all came with a digital copy. I understand if people don't have any other Blu-Ray player, but I'm kinda baffled if people use their computers as their primary entertainment viewing source (although, I do understand those using things like Minis as home entertainment servers).



    Question: I have never bought a Blu-Ray movie and your mention of the digital version they include makes me wonder, can that version be converted to Apple TV format ... and I should have asked first, would the disk even be readable on a Mac Pro or is the disk format only readable on a Blu-Ray drive (I assume the Blu-Ray content is but wondered if the digital data was somehow on a readable volume). Thanks.
  • Reply 71 of 93
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,426member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    ... in 10 years anyway BluRay is outdated with RedRay ....



    Partial Quote:



    This is a typo right?
  • Reply 72 of 93
    I've always liked the "I'm a Mac" ads and Puddy is hilarious. He is good on "Rules of Engagment" too. I don't see how anyone could see them as demeaning to Windows users. The Mac is friendly to the PC while the PC continually tries to make the Mac look bad. I hate the new PC ads. They find shmucks who don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, a PC is cheaper, but they need to stop pretending it's as good as a Mac.



    Viruses - PC's get more far more viruses than Mac's. It's a fact, no need to debate it.



    As for the SD card idea....it's a neat idea but will never be cost effective. Even if it cost 1 cent more than a Blu ray disc, that adds up when you're selling by the millions.
  • Reply 73 of 93
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    I disagree with isuppli.



    The limitation of blu-ray is cost and content only on the short term. On the long term (5 years) bluray will find failure because the cost of storage and bandwidth is already very cheap and becoming even cheaper. That makes bluray impractical versus hard drives and the internet.
  • Reply 74 of 93
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Apple's ads are zillions times better, than MS's ones. They irritate because this is for fourth time that they say one and the same simple thing: PC world is full of viruses.

    We all know. Then what?
  • Reply 75 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Optical is so last century. As with spinning a disc, like a previous poster mentioned. How about a *read-only* SD-card-like thingy with 64GB of storage? Boom! Die BluRay disc! In fact, the latest and greatest BluRay movies, what do you need, about 25GB? a 32GB *read-only* format, probably a variant of SD-card(?) is all one needs. WTF is up with another big hunking clunker called a standalone BluRay player.



    Flash memory itself is getting so cheap. Most of the cost of BluRay is all sorts of royalty stuff and the movie industry still not fully "getting it". Sell 720p and 1080p online with no ads. Stream it with ads. Sell it cheaper with ads. Whatever. Then sell physical media on read-only flash memory. Of course, lifetime of said read-only flash memory has to be improved in terms of "archival quality", that is, last 20 years, in 10 years anyway BluRay is outdated with RedRay and other media digital and physical that will give us 2K and 4K resolution film/video content. In 2020 one's BluRay collection one painstakingly built up will look like VHS tapes do now.



    SD WORM cards are not even in the market yet and I'll bet that they are not really much cheaper for a really long time.

    My guess is that for a next decade optical storage for wide distribution will be at least tenfold cheaper than solid state.

    Live in the now!

    FullHD-movies will be distributed in SD or online in that very moment, when it will be cheaper for the masses. Before that there's no way. It is business, so it is done economically.

    Most of content's cost is and should be the content. People are buying movies, not the media.

    And yes, there will be new formats with higher quality in the future. But these will not obsolete the old media. Dvd-drives play cd's and so will DB2-drives also. This is also optical media's advantage: it has and will have same physical size.
  • Reply 76 of 93
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    I disagree with isuppli.

    The limitation of blu-ray is cost and content only on the short term. On the long term (5 years) bluray will find failure because the cost of storage and bandwidth is already very cheap and becoming even cheaper. That makes bluray impractical versus hard drives and the internet.



    I also disagree with isuppli, but the other way.

    I think this is the classical thing with overestimating the short term and underestimating the long term.

    I think that reason for slow BD adoption is only price.

    Sony got way too greedy.

    First they lost a war with beta.

    Then they thought that they could take back losses and got even greedier with DAT.

    Then MiniDisk.

    Fortunately after few years with BD they came to the their senses and lowered their royalties.

    If dvd-drive will cost $25 after 3 years from now and BD-drive $30, I can't understand why consumers wouldn't take BD-drive.



    And it will take more than 5 years before majority of consumers can download/stream fullHD-movies to their home. Storing them won't be an issue, when you can always download/stream them again when you want. But as long it is faster to pick up BD from nearest store than to download it, BDs will succeed and Apple really should stop fighting against windmills. It is just bag of hurt for Apple's customers.
  • Reply 77 of 93
    MS has one. Apple has one now, too. Ah. Parity.



    A BETTER but unbroadcastable ENDING:



    Top o' The Line PC reaches into his jacket and pulls out a condom, offering it to the redhead.



    Top O' the Line PC says with a wink and sly smile: "When you are ready to compromise, bring this with ya."
  • Reply 78 of 93
    phalanxphalanx Posts: 109member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


    Apple usually introduces technology when the honest need, or potential use, for said technology is actually there.



    That is totally wrong. Apple makes their technology (or lack thereof) popular, and mostly fashionable.



    They convinced people of the following:
    • Single button mouse is better than scroll wheel, or more buttons.

    • firewire is better then something

    • mp3 doesn't need a radio or recording capability, not even a user replaceable battery.

    • touch screen keyboard is better than a tactile keyboard.

    • laptop should have very few external ports.

    • people should care about what their laptop is made of. Obviously, aluminum is better than steel or plastic. At least for now.

    • Bio-metrics is for trolls to login, not beautiful people.

    • touchpads that actually move up/down are better than pezio joysticks.

    to name a few.
  • Reply 79 of 93
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post


    Sony got way too greedy.



    If you blame Sony, you may as well blame Apple as well, since both are members of the BDA
  • Reply 80 of 93
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    I disagree with isuppli.



    The limitation of blu-ray is cost and content only on the short term. On the long term (5 years) bluray will find failure because the cost of storage and bandwidth is already very cheap and becoming even cheaper. That makes bluray impractical versus hard drives and the internet.



    Can someone (I know, I'm lazy) post the cost per GB for BluRay vs cost per GB for hard disk vs cost per GB for a flashdrive (thumbdrive) that's perhaps read-only?



    Now project that 5 years.



    Tauron I think you have a point. Only issue is hard disks are much more prone to failure and is nowhere near the reliability of a optical disc.



    Now, solid-state memory... I'm still backing that, but I don't have the figures and cost/ manufacturing trends.



    If hard disks are now much cheaper per GB than BluRay, then new tech or sudden breakthroughs in solid-state media... we could still see optical media getting beaten.
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