When, not if, but when MS decides that the stores weren't a good idea, or are no longer economically feasible, or they're just ready to move on to the next 'shiny' concept, the folks that jumped ship will undoubtedly be on a list of folks not eligible for re-hire at the Apple stores, either.
One has to assess the possibilities and the consequences of hitching one's career 'star' to a concept described as 'ill-fated' at best. Apple employees probably shouldn't jump ship unless they've already calculated that they have no real future at Apple, or just no other employment choices. In this economy, nothing seems to be an easy or obvious decision. Best of luck to those who jump, whatever happens.
Sad isn't it? The registry is the source of all evil in Windows. Fix it, and Windows will break entirely and will die as everything will have to be rewritten, and when people see their precious backwards compatibility gone, they will all jump ship. Keep it, and stupid issues will always plague Windows and WinMob every day (like losing call notifications!), at random intervals, at the worst possible time.
Group policy depends on the registry. Microsoft would not get rid of one of the features that helps manage 100's of pc's at once a lot easier. The registry should not be gotten rid of.
Just make developers stick to the actual guidelines. Thats the problem not the registry existing. I wish people would understand that. I can make a terrible program screw up a mac also if i wanted to.
Isolated event at that Apple store, maybe a "bad apple."
MSFT catches up to its nimbler rival. Those gurus better have MCDST training cause they're gonna need it, and any techies jumping ship to MSFT will come back to Apple within months because Mac OS X is just so easier to work with!
Group policy depends on the registry. Microsoft would not get rid of one of the features that helps manage 100's of pc's at once a lot easier. The registry should not be gotten rid of.
Just make developers stick to the actual guidelines. Thats the problem not the registry existing. I wish people would understand that. I can make a terrible program screw up a mac also if i wanted to.
You can do the exact same thing without using a database that is binary based and can only be edited via regedit (yes third party utilities exists) instead of a typical text editor.
I've gone through the registry, and it is downright crappy that stuff has to go into the WindowsNT branch or the Windows branch, and how malware screws up stuff like exe associations.
Apple does it via XML or something similar, and Linux does it via text files. If either go broke, it can be deleted and easily recreated. Both allow reinstalling without losing your preferences and installed programs either, without any extra steps. Try doing that in the registry.
So the truth comes out for what the real purpose of the Microsoft Stores are.
As stores, they really didn't make sense. Microsoft doesn't really make hardware other then the xbox or zune and a few keyboards, mice and other accessories. Hardly enough to justify a store.
On software, they have quite a catalog and I guess they could sell other packages.
Support like in the Apple store is going to be much more difficult because of the nightmare that is the blessing of the all-you-can-eat free-for-all hardware bonaza on Windows...
So the real puzzle was, what could Microsoft possibly be hoping to accomplish?
Now we know. Disrupt Apple retail by poaching staff.
Pretty weak. That might have worked with a weaker company like Gateway or Dell (where they, quite frankly, were capable of submarining their retail stores without outside help) but Apple is a much stronger company, they have a compelling story and they can weather whatever short term pain MS might be able to generate.
And if it gets Apple to improve any employee situations that may exist - then great! But even with this, I'm still trying to figure out what Microsoft's real hope for an accomplishment is. Somewhere they have goals for these stores - and I wonder if they would be interesting or depressing....
I'm just wondering how long these stores will last, since (I assume) they'll only be selling Windows, Office, SQL, other software and their computer mice, keyboards, XBoxes and Zunes.
Maybe offer numerous classes (using MS software, troubleshooting computer problems)?
I assume the Gurus will have their hands full.
Will they go the way of the Seinfeld commercials -- and have as much impact?
I'm just wondering how long these stores will last...
MSFT stores will fail miserably IMHO because 1) PCs aren't as integrated as Macs 2) PCs are almost a commodity item that even Costco carries. Besides, if I want a PC I order direct from Dell.
if they do this walkout that is exactly what the management will do. at least during the walkout period. perhaps even after
which raises a possible question about what the issue is. hours. perhaps folks are pissed because they aren't getting a great number and working their butts off during busy periods because there there's not a major number of folks. again, totally legal but not nice.
perhaps, going to that end, if there's not enough staff, breaks like meal times are being delayed and that was pissing folks off. it is something that could be 'against the law'. for example, if the law says that you must take at least a 30 minute off the clock break no less than 5 hours into an 8 hour shift and folks are constantly having to wait 6 hours or even more. or they are supposed to be given a chance to take a paid 10 minute break (something that is in the Cali laws) each 4 hours they work as close to halfway in the middle of that block of time as possible (so basically you work 2 hours, take 10 minutes, work to the end of the next 2 hours, take a meal, repeat the 2+2 after meal) and they were not being allowed to take them.
Quote:
I'd be surprised if their state isn't a right to work state. So Apple could let them go because they didn't liek the way the wind blew.
actually the term you are looking for is 'at will' which means that there is no contract by either party to stay at the job. and yes it is possible that retail in Washington is 'at will'. although there is a whistleblower law that protects you from being fired for narcing to the state and/or feds for legal issues. so that might spare their jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozymajere
Huh. That sounds a pretty good bit like a manager at the Christiana Store. He was SO DETERMINED to "Catch me stealing" from "his store." At one point, whoever actually WAS stealing from the store got so brazen that they had to start checking our bags before we could leave, after our shifts were up. But this manager wouldn't do it in the privacy of the back of the store for me. He insisted that my bookbag, my coat, and my pockets all be searched out in Front of House, where there'd be witnesses.
back/coat checks are very common in retail although most places require them to always be at the front of the store so you can't pocket something on the way out. I used to work at a major bookstore and we required you to get a property sticker put on everything you brought in that was currently, add ever been or could be sold in the store. it had to be done at the front counter (which was right by the doors) before you put your things away. and if you forgot the items were held until you could produce a receipt and you were given a write up. And during that write up you had to acknowledge the company's right to review all cameras ( in the event that you might have lifted a copy of something you had bought and were bringing in the old receipt).
Amazing how a company that owns the market 95% of the planet, is so obsessed with beating Apple to the ground.
The problem is, they own the majority of the crap, low-margin segment. Apple is much smaller, but has a market capitalization that's getting close (again) to Microsoft.
They also tease employees like this with the promise of ARC (a move from Apple Retail to Corporate), which is always roadblocked.
i'm a tad confused by this statement. in my most local store there are at least 8 trainers and 8 technicians. You are saying they have those jobs as a tool to get them to the big office in Cupertino. that in fact they were told that's where they were headed.
that doesn't really make sense to me. there's around 200 stores just in the US, lets make the math easy and say each has 10 folks in those 'teams' (5 and 5). that's 2000 folks promised a job in Cupertino. there's probably not that many more folks working there in total.
given this math and the notion that they would want the best of the best working at the top, it seems odd to say they are roadblocking and not perhaps that most folks just don't make the grade (or haven't yet)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperscribble
Obviously Microsoft is acting out of fear by placing it's stores right on top of Apple Retail Stores.
Microsoft would say otherwise. they would claim they are placing them so close because they do NOT fear Apple. so this is like the retail equal of playing na-na at someone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
In this economy, you have to be really careful. If I'm an Apple store employee and I'm unhappy with management, I apply and hopefully get the job at the Microsoft retail store, give my two weeks or even three weeks notice, and I leave my job at the Apple store due to personal reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinMartian
When, not if, but when MS decides that the stores weren't a good idea, or are no longer economically feasible, or they're just ready to move on to the next 'shiny' concept, the folks that jumped ship will undoubtedly be on a list of folks not eligible for re-hire at the Apple stores, either.
anyone with half a brain knows that you don't have to give a reason to quit an 'at will' job. so why would apple know that someone left to work at Microsoft. and if the person was a good worker and gave all the proper notice, a re-hire might be possible.
(...) Microsoft isn't acting out of fear, they're acting out of competition. They want to make money. They've obviously decided that it is in their best competitive interests to place the stores near Apple stores. Ever drive down a strip mall and see Wendy's, McDonald's, and Burger King all with a few blocks of each other? It's the same general idea.
I do understand that concept; Walgreens on the adjacent corner to CVS. I suppose it just gets to me when Microsoft picks at Apple, and Apple seems to be in it for the growth of the creative aspect of their products rather than to squish the store across the street via whatever they can get their hands on. 'Suppose it's a personal issue with me. Also, just because a situation may occur often in business still does not mean that it is exempt from being immoral.
Yes it's odd that MS sees itself a cut-rate Apple Junior. I mean I would expect MS could be much more, though perhaps not.
But never underestimate the power of good retail. MS is still a titanic majority. If they source hardware from a good range of players, they could have a computer store as good as the Apple store. Odd that it falls to Microsoft to do that, but they could build a store I would visit. Win7, xbox, well chosen hardware and the store could be a good thing. Likely not, but let's condemn them if and when they do get it wrong.
I worked for apple, in their sales centre, in Ireland. Three years i worked there, and for most of it, i heard horror stories about management, but never saw it myself, and never believed it.
At least until my final six months. A new manager, who i clashed with made it her BUSINESS to manage me out. Apples HR is there to protect only one group of people, the Apple management.
I know people worship Jobs, but here's a truth about that man. He does not like strong sub-ordinates, and that culture extends the whole way down the chain in apple. Their management style is horrible beyond description, and the company will, without fail, fall on the side of management every time.
If those employees walk out, they'll be fired or managed out before the end of the year.
To the first poster, just because there's a recession on, doesn't give managers the right to treat other people like shit.
i'm a tad confused by this statement. in my most local store there are at least 8 trainers and 8 technicians. You are saying they have those jobs as a tool to get them to the big office in Cupertino. that in fact they were told that's where they were headed.
that doesn't really make sense to me. there's around 200 stores just in the US, lets make the math easy and say each has 10 folks in those 'teams' (5 and 5). that's 2000 folks promised a job in Cupertino. there's probably not that many more folks working there in total.
given this math and the notion that they would want the best of the best working at the top, it seems odd to say they are roadblocking and not perhaps that most folks just don't make the grade (or haven't yet)
ARC is a program that helps the creme-de-la-creme get a summer internship in Cupertino. Retail employees can apply for several different positions (with the permission of their store's manager), but only a select few get the opportunity to go. It is not promised to anyone.
anyone with half a brain knows that you don't have to give a reason to quit an 'at will' job. so why would apple know that someone left to work at Microsoft. and if the person was a good worker and gave all the proper notice, a re-hire might be possible.
Was it really necessary to throw an insult to make a point? Civility is your friend.
Back on point, the reason that the Apple people will know is because it's already been said that the stores will be located near Apple stores, sometimes in the same mall. So, when someone quits at the Apple store and suddenly appears at the MS store, it's going to be obvious, to say the least. If the Apple store 'culture' is such that you're either 'one of us,' or 'one of them...' well.. Anyone... knows that a company doesn't have to be specific about why the employee isn't eligible for rehire, either; only that he isn't.
Comments
One has to assess the possibilities and the consequences of hitching one's career 'star' to a concept described as 'ill-fated' at best. Apple employees probably shouldn't jump ship unless they've already calculated that they have no real future at Apple, or just no other employment choices. In this economy, nothing seems to be an easy or obvious decision. Best of luck to those who jump, whatever happens.
Maybe MS should get over with it and hire SJ. It easier this way since he only get $1 a year
No, no, no. They will lure SJ away by offering him $2 per year.
Sad isn't it? The registry is the source of all evil in Windows. Fix it, and Windows will break entirely and will die as everything will have to be rewritten, and when people see their precious backwards compatibility gone, they will all jump ship. Keep it, and stupid issues will always plague Windows and WinMob every day (like losing call notifications!), at random intervals, at the worst possible time.
Group policy depends on the registry. Microsoft would not get rid of one of the features that helps manage 100's of pc's at once a lot easier. The registry should not be gotten rid of.
Just make developers stick to the actual guidelines. Thats the problem not the registry existing. I wish people would understand that. I can make a terrible program screw up a mac also if i wanted to.
MSFT catches up to its nimbler rival. Those gurus better have MCDST training cause they're gonna need it, and any techies jumping ship to MSFT will come back to Apple within months because Mac OS X is just so easier to work with!
Group policy depends on the registry. Microsoft would not get rid of one of the features that helps manage 100's of pc's at once a lot easier. The registry should not be gotten rid of.
Just make developers stick to the actual guidelines. Thats the problem not the registry existing. I wish people would understand that. I can make a terrible program screw up a mac also if i wanted to.
You can do the exact same thing without using a database that is binary based and can only be edited via regedit (yes third party utilities exists) instead of a typical text editor.
I've gone through the registry, and it is downright crappy that stuff has to go into the WindowsNT branch or the Windows branch, and how malware screws up stuff like exe associations.
Apple does it via XML or something similar, and Linux does it via text files. If either go broke, it can be deleted and easily recreated. Both allow reinstalling without losing your preferences and installed programs either, without any extra steps. Try doing that in the registry.
As stores, they really didn't make sense. Microsoft doesn't really make hardware other then the xbox or zune and a few keyboards, mice and other accessories. Hardly enough to justify a store.
On software, they have quite a catalog and I guess they could sell other packages.
Support like in the Apple store is going to be much more difficult because of the nightmare that is the blessing of the all-you-can-eat free-for-all hardware bonaza on Windows...
So the real puzzle was, what could Microsoft possibly be hoping to accomplish?
Now we know. Disrupt Apple retail by poaching staff.
Pretty weak. That might have worked with a weaker company like Gateway or Dell (where they, quite frankly, were capable of submarining their retail stores without outside help) but Apple is a much stronger company, they have a compelling story and they can weather whatever short term pain MS might be able to generate.
And if it gets Apple to improve any employee situations that may exist - then great! But even with this, I'm still trying to figure out what Microsoft's real hope for an accomplishment is. Somewhere they have goals for these stores - and I wonder if they would be interesting or depressing....
Maybe offer numerous classes (using MS software, troubleshooting computer problems)?
I assume the Gurus will have their hands full.
Will they go the way of the Seinfeld commercials -- and have as much impact?
I'm just wondering how long these stores will last...
MSFT stores will fail miserably IMHO because 1) PCs aren't as integrated as Macs 2) PCs are almost a commodity item that even Costco carries. Besides, if I want a PC I order direct from Dell.
staff from other stores in the area?
if they do this walkout that is exactly what the management will do. at least during the walkout period. perhaps even after
which raises a possible question about what the issue is. hours. perhaps folks are pissed because they aren't getting a great number and working their butts off during busy periods because there there's not a major number of folks. again, totally legal but not nice.
perhaps, going to that end, if there's not enough staff, breaks like meal times are being delayed and that was pissing folks off. it is something that could be 'against the law'. for example, if the law says that you must take at least a 30 minute off the clock break no less than 5 hours into an 8 hour shift and folks are constantly having to wait 6 hours or even more. or they are supposed to be given a chance to take a paid 10 minute break (something that is in the Cali laws) each 4 hours they work as close to halfway in the middle of that block of time as possible (so basically you work 2 hours, take 10 minutes, work to the end of the next 2 hours, take a meal, repeat the 2+2 after meal) and they were not being allowed to take them.
I'd be surprised if their state isn't a right to work state. So Apple could let them go because they didn't liek the way the wind blew.
actually the term you are looking for is 'at will' which means that there is no contract by either party to stay at the job. and yes it is possible that retail in Washington is 'at will'. although there is a whistleblower law that protects you from being fired for narcing to the state and/or feds for legal issues. so that might spare their jobs.
Huh. That sounds a pretty good bit like a manager at the Christiana Store. He was SO DETERMINED to "Catch me stealing" from "his store." At one point, whoever actually WAS stealing from the store got so brazen that they had to start checking our bags before we could leave, after our shifts were up. But this manager wouldn't do it in the privacy of the back of the store for me. He insisted that my bookbag, my coat, and my pockets all be searched out in Front of House, where there'd be witnesses.
back/coat checks are very common in retail although most places require them to always be at the front of the store so you can't pocket something on the way out. I used to work at a major bookstore and we required you to get a property sticker put on everything you brought in that was currently, add ever been or could be sold in the store. it had to be done at the front counter (which was right by the doors) before you put your things away. and if you forgot the items were held until you could produce a receipt and you were given a write up. And during that write up you had to acknowledge the company's right to review all cameras ( in the event that you might have lifted a copy of something you had bought and were bringing in the old receipt).
Amazing how a company that owns the market 95% of the planet, is so obsessed with beating Apple to the ground.
The problem is, they own the majority of the crap, low-margin segment. Apple is much smaller, but has a market capitalization that's getting close (again) to Microsoft.
Apple's taking the cream.....
They also tease employees like this with the promise of ARC (a move from Apple Retail to Corporate), which is always roadblocked.
i'm a tad confused by this statement. in my most local store there are at least 8 trainers and 8 technicians. You are saying they have those jobs as a tool to get them to the big office in Cupertino. that in fact they were told that's where they were headed.
that doesn't really make sense to me. there's around 200 stores just in the US, lets make the math easy and say each has 10 folks in those 'teams' (5 and 5). that's 2000 folks promised a job in Cupertino. there's probably not that many more folks working there in total.
given this math and the notion that they would want the best of the best working at the top, it seems odd to say they are roadblocking and not perhaps that most folks just don't make the grade (or haven't yet)
Obviously Microsoft is acting out of fear by placing it's stores right on top of Apple Retail Stores.
Microsoft would say otherwise. they would claim they are placing them so close because they do NOT fear Apple. so this is like the retail equal of playing na-na at someone.
In this economy, you have to be really careful. If I'm an Apple store employee and I'm unhappy with management, I apply and hopefully get the job at the Microsoft retail store, give my two weeks or even three weeks notice, and I leave my job at the Apple store due to personal reasons.
When, not if, but when MS decides that the stores weren't a good idea, or are no longer economically feasible, or they're just ready to move on to the next 'shiny' concept, the folks that jumped ship will undoubtedly be on a list of folks not eligible for re-hire at the Apple stores, either.
anyone with half a brain knows that you don't have to give a reason to quit an 'at will' job. so why would apple know that someone left to work at Microsoft. and if the person was a good worker and gave all the proper notice, a re-hire might be possible.
(...) Microsoft isn't acting out of fear, they're acting out of competition. They want to make money. They've obviously decided that it is in their best competitive interests to place the stores near Apple stores. Ever drive down a strip mall and see Wendy's, McDonald's, and Burger King all with a few blocks of each other? It's the same general idea.
I do understand that concept; Walgreens on the adjacent corner to CVS. I suppose it just gets to me when Microsoft picks at Apple, and Apple seems to be in it for the growth of the creative aspect of their products rather than to squish the store across the street via whatever they can get their hands on. 'Suppose it's a personal issue with me. Also, just because a situation may occur often in business still does not mean that it is exempt from being immoral.
But never underestimate the power of good retail. MS is still a titanic majority. If they source hardware from a good range of players, they could have a computer store as good as the Apple store. Odd that it falls to Microsoft to do that, but they could build a store I would visit. Win7, xbox, well chosen hardware and the store could be a good thing. Likely not, but let's condemn them if and when they do get it wrong.
At least until my final six months. A new manager, who i clashed with made it her BUSINESS to manage me out. Apples HR is there to protect only one group of people, the Apple management.
I know people worship Jobs, but here's a truth about that man. He does not like strong sub-ordinates, and that culture extends the whole way down the chain in apple. Their management style is horrible beyond description, and the company will, without fail, fall on the side of management every time.
If those employees walk out, they'll be fired or managed out before the end of the year.
To the first poster, just because there's a recession on, doesn't give managers the right to treat other people like shit.
i'm a tad confused by this statement. in my most local store there are at least 8 trainers and 8 technicians. You are saying they have those jobs as a tool to get them to the big office in Cupertino. that in fact they were told that's where they were headed.
that doesn't really make sense to me. there's around 200 stores just in the US, lets make the math easy and say each has 10 folks in those 'teams' (5 and 5). that's 2000 folks promised a job in Cupertino. there's probably not that many more folks working there in total.
given this math and the notion that they would want the best of the best working at the top, it seems odd to say they are roadblocking and not perhaps that most folks just don't make the grade (or haven't yet)
ARC is a program that helps the creme-de-la-creme get a summer internship in Cupertino. Retail employees can apply for several different positions (with the permission of their store's manager), but only a select few get the opportunity to go. It is not promised to anyone.
anyone with half a brain knows that you don't have to give a reason to quit an 'at will' job. so why would apple know that someone left to work at Microsoft. and if the person was a good worker and gave all the proper notice, a re-hire might be possible.
Was it really necessary to throw an insult to make a point? Civility is your friend.
Back on point, the reason that the Apple people will know is because it's already been said that the stores will be located near Apple stores, sometimes in the same mall. So, when someone quits at the Apple store and suddenly appears at the MS store, it's going to be obvious, to say the least. If the Apple store 'culture' is such that you're either 'one of us,' or 'one of them...' well.. Anyone... knows that a company doesn't have to be specific about why the employee isn't eligible for rehire, either; only that he isn't.
their workers are like robots now
i remember 3 yrs ago a much nicer feeling in the apple store
i remember not having to teach workers the basics when asking them a simple question
apple is now a mass market hyper profit hyper selling lean money making machine
which if they CARED would be ok >but apple does not care anymore . i will buy from them BUT i have moved on .
l
k
n
to the new ZUNE accessory world store . there my new best buds
Apple would be doing the exact same thing if their positions were reversed.
I agree and new retail associates would likely be taught about BootCamp immediately as a selling point.