As much as I appreciate the 'simplicity' of my Mac computers, they really do come across as little more than costly devices for those that really don't know, nor care to explore the intricacies of actual computing.
Turn It On... Use The Software... Turn It Off - Computing Appliances, If you will.
Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savor every aspect of what can be done with their computers; affording endless customization, an exponentially larger software library, and user/cost-friendly upgrading.
Happily - There's room for both in today's market -
I've always been interested in the Windows argument that "easy to use" is somehow a drawback. What kind of loon "savors every aspect of what can be done with computer"? What do I want to do beyond run the software of my choosing on an OS that gets out of the way? Moreover, even if I am so inclined I can dig into the Unix roots of OS X via the command line and screw around to my hearts content. Personally, I'm just glad I'm not obliged to.
We're way past the "computer enthusiast" phase of mass computing, just as the inveterate tinkerers of the early days of the automobile were supplanted by many more people that just wanted to get in and drive.
Also, I note that "exponentially larger software library" now is a bullet point in Window's favor. I seem to recall, however, that in the case of the Zune HD vs. Touch, having a lot more software actually doesn't matter because it all hinges on the quality of that software.
Unibody means that there's no internal frame, just one solid shell that holds everything together. Previously, you had to have an internal aluminum/magnesium frame for structural strength, and bonded to that aluminum or polycarbonate plating and shell. This was the case for the old white Macbook. If Apple claims unibody enclosure, it means that there's no need for an internal frame. What you see on the outside is what holds everything together--or perhaps it's a thin metal unibody with plastic moulded over it, but still no separate internal frame as it was previously.
Would love to recommend this to my friends who don't have a Mac but Apples insistence on ripping off anyone outside of the US is just not on, simply put the, attitude seems to be if you aren't am American you can bend over and take it like a bitch.
I won't recommend it on principal.
Out of curiousity, do you really think that some accountant at Apple is sitting there thinking, "I know, let's screw our non-American customers and charge them more just for the fun of it."
Or could it have something to do with your particular country's import fees/tariffs/taxes and the cost of doing business there (in-country transportation, warehouses, employees, etc)? Or that maybe it's a lot cheaper to ship the product across the Pacific to the US west coast than to the other side of the world?
I sympathize that you have to pay more for some of your toys (and it's not just Apple toys, is it?), but to hold a grudge thinking it's from some pro-American bias by Apple is a bit of a stretch, I think.
As much as I appreciate the 'simplicity' of my Mac computers, they really do come across as little more than costly devices for those that really don't know, nor care to explore the intricacies of actual computing.
Turn It On... Use The Software... Turn It Off - Computing Appliances, If you will.
Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savor every aspect of what can be done with their computers; affording endless customization, an exponentially larger software library, and user/cost-friendly upgrading.
Happily - There's room for both in today's market -
While I disagree with you on the relative simplicity of OSX, you just have to dig a little deeper since the complexity is just hidden away from the average user that wouldn't know how to properly handle it, one could argue that the sports car industry has a similar problem:
Automatic transmissions are getting to the point where they shift faster and shift at a more optimal point than a driver is capable of with a manual transmission. Enthusiasts are resisting this change as manual transmissions are more fun and better reflect a drivers skill. However, as technology advances, driving with a manual transmission will simply mean that you are driving slower. I would be really careful about how you apply these complexity as an advantage arguments.
My concern with the built-in, non-user replaceable battery in the polycarbonate MacBook doesn't concern the battery...it concerns the hard drive.
In my old MacBook, I could swap the hard drive in five minutes, as it went in and out through the battery port; same with adding memory. With no removable battery, is replacing the hard drive and memory going to be a simple matter of removing the bottom enclosure?
Yes, hard drive & memory are still easily accessible. Believe it or not the DVD drive on the unibodies is a pain to replace. Fixed it somewhat when they went from PPC but now it is a pain again.
Honestly though, I'll take that any day over the Dell solution of having big bulky business laptops just so it's easy to swap parts.
I was hoping apple might lower the plastic macbook even further from $999, but I think steve believes $999 is the "magic" price point. Does anyone know where I should/could buy the previous generation plastic macbook?
But this is 13% of the cost of the MacBook itself!
The batteries on the older MB and MBPs are also that price. But you had the convenience of them being user replaceable. Now you have to take the newer ones in. The trade off being that the batteries have gotten more complex and better.... Plus if you do take them in, you (and Apple) can guaranteed to have them disposed of properly.....assuming that sort of thing is important to you.
Or would you just rather them use the older battery tech? Or randomly raise the price of the MB so the battery is not so much of a percentage of cost?
Out of curiousity, do you really think that some accountant at Apple is sitting there thinking, "I know, let's screw our non-American customers and charge them more just for the fun of it."
Or could it have something to do with your particular country's import fees/tariffs/taxes and the cost of doing business there (in-country transportation, warehouses, employees, etc)? Or that maybe it's a lot cheaper to ship the product across the Pacific to the US west coast than to the other side of the world?
I sympathize that you have to pay more for some of your toys (and it's not just Apple toys, is it?), but to hold a grudge thinking it's from some pro-American bias by Apple is a bit of a stretch, I think.
The problem with your point is that certain items, take the new iMacs for example do not have the price difference or at least not nearly as pronounced, considering the machines are made in China and most likely shipped from there too..... No I do not see the reason to charge the British consumer so much more.
Yes and it beats the crap out of this Macbook with reliable, stable & highly customizable choice of 5 different Windows versions.
Really, days after Apple admits that their OS will destroy your entire home folder in certain instances, you want to talk about Windows reliability? I've been running (prerelease) Windows 7 on various machines for the better part of the last year with zero issues. Snow leopard, on the other hand has caused me countless problems and ate my friend's account. I say this only to point out that both OSs have their issues and strengths these days.
This is a good entry level mac offering, and a better one than yesterday. The build quality, whether you give it due significance or not, was lacking on the previous model, and appears fully addressed with the current.
The lack of firewire on this model is not an issue. Most who buy this won't even have an external harddrive, let alone seriouz accessoriez.
I think they could have gotten really aggressive and priced this at $799, or even $899, but thats hard to say considering its the same price as yesterday, with a few substantial new features: unibody, LED screen, 7 hr battery, the new glass trackpad.
All of that makes it far better value than yesterday, for the same price. Its totally appropriate.
Apple probably does not price it cheaper than $999 is because they don't have to. If they are selling tons of Macs and MacBooks at their current prices then why lower the price? Just look at yesterday's news on how well Apple is doing -- no reason to reduce the price even as much as I wish it would be priced at $799 or $899 as well.
I think this is a much better MacBook today than yesterday but i'm very price conscious as well and I think any buyer that looks at the MacBooks (not Pro) are already seriously considering nebooks or slim laptops.
So it stands, that Apple needs to really push why the Mac is better than Windows outside of just saying it doesn't have Viruses. I have to explain all the time about iPhoto, iMovie, and GarageBand. Those are really cool apps and the ease of use alone can be very convincing when you are not just starring into Specs and Price.
Unibody - yes, monocoque - no. Cool shrink might cause the polycarbonate skin to stress slightly, but not much -- certainly not enough to qualify as a stressed skin, which is integral to the monocoque concept.
It all depends on how the 'skin' functions. Much more likely the "skin" is more of a shell than a skin and that shell depends more on the overall nature of the material (polycarbonate) than upon internal tension for it's rigidity. But of course its possible to design structures that overlap the two concepts to some extent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics
Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.
And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......
Really, days after Apple admits that their OS will destroy your entire home folder in certain instances, you want to talk about Windows reliability? I've been running (prerelease) Windows 7 on various machines for the better part of the last year with zero issues. Snow leopard, on the other hand has caused me countless problems and ate my friend's account. I say this only to point out that both OSs have their issues and strengths these days.
Certain *scattered* instances (plus it can be avoided in the first place and restored in the second place.)
Just want to point out that the extrusion process is rather important though, as it significantly increases the rigidity and stiffness of the aluminum plate before milling, making the Aluminum unibody macs uniquely sturdy (sounds like a "Extenz" commercial!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
The Aluminum unibody is not an extruded net shape part. It is a structure that is milled out of an aluminum plate. Those plates can come from an extrusion process but they really don't have to. Where ever the material comes from it is milled to dimension and has the holes for the speaker grill laser drilled. The case finish comes from mechanical brushing of the surface.
Dude, this is awesome. My Macbook's screen got busted (an accident) and if it's not repairable, the Insurance will pay for a new one [: Perfect. Timing. *is feeling lucky*
Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.
And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......
In the summer of 1969 I flew a Monocoque-design Beechcraft Musketeer Sport airplane ("Fighter plane design" they called it) through power lines over the midwest USA. Stopped the prop, bent the nosegear sideways, shoved the exhaust stacks back 3 inches. Loose wire ends popped out the side window, showering us in glass. Another ripped an 8-inch gash in the top of the left wing.
We got the engine restarted at about 25 feet above ground, flew it back to an airport 80 miles away, and landed safely. The FAA accident investigator told us if it had been any other brand of light aircraft, we'd have been decorating the Kansas wheat. Monocoque structural engineering saved my life.
I expect I could hold a new polycarbonate (the stuff they use to make F22 Raptor canopies, BTW) MacBook in front of me and take a direct hit from a subway train without so much as a rumple in my corduroys. Maybe a hangnail where my fingers gripped the edge.
It makes no sense. The main reason I want Firewire is to connect Macs to troubleshoot them or to bring over data when buying a new Mac.
Ethernet sucks at bringing over data from another Mac and diagnosing problems. Firewire treats another Mac as a slave drive to the master drive. When signed in as root, it overrides any permissions on the slave drive. So, if I want to clone a drive from one to another, permissions are not an issue. Further, you can delete and /or replace any file on an effected Mac, which is great for troubleshooting. These things can't be done with Ethernet because Ethernet treats another Mac as a networked computer subject to permissions.
Up until recently, I could confidently grab my Mac and a Firewire cable and fix and feel assured I can fix any problem on another person's Mac. I have fixed many friend and family members Macs this way. Taking the Firewire away makes it much harder for people to fix troubled Macs without having to resort to a fresh install.
Firewire across the board was something that truly make being a Mac user a pleasure. Big mistake on Apple's par tin my mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
No Firewire. Makes sense. If you want Firewire, get the 13.3" Pro for $200 more. No back-lit keyboard, either.
Comments
As much as I appreciate the 'simplicity' of my Mac computers, they really do come across as little more than costly devices for those that really don't know, nor care to explore the intricacies of actual computing.
Turn It On... Use The Software... Turn It Off - Computing Appliances, If you will.
Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savor every aspect of what can be done with their computers; affording endless customization, an exponentially larger software library, and user/cost-friendly upgrading.
Happily - There's room for both in today's market -
I've always been interested in the Windows argument that "easy to use" is somehow a drawback. What kind of loon "savors every aspect of what can be done with computer"? What do I want to do beyond run the software of my choosing on an OS that gets out of the way? Moreover, even if I am so inclined I can dig into the Unix roots of OS X via the command line and screw around to my hearts content. Personally, I'm just glad I'm not obliged to.
We're way past the "computer enthusiast" phase of mass computing, just as the inveterate tinkerers of the early days of the automobile were supplanted by many more people that just wanted to get in and drive.
Also, I note that "exponentially larger software library" now is a bullet point in Window's favor. I seem to recall, however, that in the case of the Zune HD vs. Touch, having a lot more software actually doesn't matter because it all hinges on the quality of that software.
Funny how that works.
Would love to recommend this to my friends who don't have a Mac but Apples insistence on ripping off anyone outside of the US is just not on, simply put the, attitude seems to be if you aren't am American you can bend over and take it like a bitch.
I won't recommend it on principal.
Out of curiousity, do you really think that some accountant at Apple is sitting there thinking, "I know, let's screw our non-American customers and charge them more just for the fun of it."
Or could it have something to do with your particular country's import fees/tariffs/taxes and the cost of doing business there (in-country transportation, warehouses, employees, etc)? Or that maybe it's a lot cheaper to ship the product across the Pacific to the US west coast than to the other side of the world?
I sympathize that you have to pay more for some of your toys (and it's not just Apple toys, is it?), but to hold a grudge thinking it's from some pro-American bias by Apple is a bit of a stretch, I think.
As much as I appreciate the 'simplicity' of my Mac computers, they really do come across as little more than costly devices for those that really don't know, nor care to explore the intricacies of actual computing.
Turn It On... Use The Software... Turn It Off - Computing Appliances, If you will.
Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savor every aspect of what can be done with their computers; affording endless customization, an exponentially larger software library, and user/cost-friendly upgrading.
Happily - There's room for both in today's market -
While I disagree with you on the relative simplicity of OSX, you just have to dig a little deeper since the complexity is just hidden away from the average user that wouldn't know how to properly handle it, one could argue that the sports car industry has a similar problem:
Automatic transmissions are getting to the point where they shift faster and shift at a more optimal point than a driver is capable of with a manual transmission. Enthusiasts are resisting this change as manual transmissions are more fun and better reflect a drivers skill. However, as technology advances, driving with a manual transmission will simply mean that you are driving slower. I would be really careful about how you apply these complexity as an advantage arguments.
My concern with the built-in, non-user replaceable battery in the polycarbonate MacBook doesn't concern the battery...it concerns the hard drive.
In my old MacBook, I could swap the hard drive in five minutes, as it went in and out through the battery port; same with adding memory. With no removable battery, is replacing the hard drive and memory going to be a simple matter of removing the bottom enclosure?
Yes, hard drive & memory are still easily accessible. Believe it or not the DVD drive on the unibodies is a pain to replace. Fixed it somewhat when they went from PPC but now it is a pain again.
Honestly though, I'll take that any day over the Dell solution of having big bulky business laptops just so it's easy to swap parts.
$129.00
Includes Battery + installation + environmentally responsible disposal
I had to replace my (user replaceable) 2006 MBP battery and it was $129.00 and it included just the battery. The old one still sits in a drawer.
But this is 13% of the cost of the MacBook itself!
But this is 13% of the cost of the MacBook itself!
The batteries on the older MB and MBPs are also that price. But you had the convenience of them being user replaceable. Now you have to take the newer ones in. The trade off being that the batteries have gotten more complex and better.... Plus if you do take them in, you (and Apple) can guaranteed to have them disposed of properly.....assuming that sort of thing is important to you.
Or would you just rather them use the older battery tech? Or randomly raise the price of the MB so the battery is not so much of a percentage of cost?
Out of curiousity, do you really think that some accountant at Apple is sitting there thinking, "I know, let's screw our non-American customers and charge them more just for the fun of it."
Or could it have something to do with your particular country's import fees/tariffs/taxes and the cost of doing business there (in-country transportation, warehouses, employees, etc)? Or that maybe it's a lot cheaper to ship the product across the Pacific to the US west coast than to the other side of the world?
I sympathize that you have to pay more for some of your toys (and it's not just Apple toys, is it?), but to hold a grudge thinking it's from some pro-American bias by Apple is a bit of a stretch, I think.
The problem with your point is that certain items, take the new iMacs for example do not have the price difference or at least not nearly as pronounced, considering the machines are made in China and most likely shipped from there too..... No I do not see the reason to charge the British consumer so much more.
Yes and it beats the crap out of this Macbook with reliable, stable & highly customizable choice of 5 different Windows versions.
Really, days after Apple admits that their OS will destroy your entire home folder in certain instances, you want to talk about Windows reliability? I've been running (prerelease) Windows 7 on various machines for the better part of the last year with zero issues. Snow leopard, on the other hand has caused me countless problems and ate my friend's account. I say this only to point out that both OSs have their issues and strengths these days.
This is a good entry level mac offering, and a better one than yesterday. The build quality, whether you give it due significance or not, was lacking on the previous model, and appears fully addressed with the current.
The lack of firewire on this model is not an issue. Most who buy this won't even have an external harddrive, let alone seriouz accessoriez.
I think they could have gotten really aggressive and priced this at $799, or even $899, but thats hard to say considering its the same price as yesterday, with a few substantial new features: unibody, LED screen, 7 hr battery, the new glass trackpad.
All of that makes it far better value than yesterday, for the same price. Its totally appropriate.
Apple probably does not price it cheaper than $999 is because they don't have to. If they are selling tons of Macs and MacBooks at their current prices then why lower the price? Just look at yesterday's news on how well Apple is doing -- no reason to reduce the price even as much as I wish it would be priced at $799 or $899 as well.
I think this is a much better MacBook today than yesterday but i'm very price conscious as well and I think any buyer that looks at the MacBooks (not Pro) are already seriously considering nebooks or slim laptops.
So it stands, that Apple needs to really push why the Mac is better than Windows outside of just saying it doesn't have Viruses. I have to explain all the time about iPhoto, iMovie, and GarageBand. Those are really cool apps and the ease of use alone can be very convincing when you are not just starring into Specs and Price.
Unibody - yes, monocoque - no. Cool shrink might cause the polycarbonate skin to stress slightly, but not much -- certainly not enough to qualify as a stressed skin, which is integral to the monocoque concept.
It all depends on how the 'skin' functions. Much more likely the "skin" is more of a shell than a skin and that shell depends more on the overall nature of the material (polycarbonate) than upon internal tension for it's rigidity. But of course its possible to design structures that overlap the two concepts to some extent.
Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.
And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......
Really, days after Apple admits that their OS will destroy your entire home folder in certain instances, you want to talk about Windows reliability? I've been running (prerelease) Windows 7 on various machines for the better part of the last year with zero issues. Snow leopard, on the other hand has caused me countless problems and ate my friend's account. I say this only to point out that both OSs have their issues and strengths these days.
Certain *scattered* instances (plus it can be avoided in the first place and restored in the second place.)
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10356505-263.html
Dare I say Microsoft, Roz Ho, Danger, Sidekick, complete loss of data?
Let's not get started on the £650 Mac Mini.
Is it really? *Goes looking...at website.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Apple yer gotta be kiddin'... *Shakes head.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Just want to point out that the extrusion process is rather important though, as it significantly increases the rigidity and stiffness of the aluminum plate before milling, making the Aluminum unibody macs uniquely sturdy (sounds like a "Extenz" commercial!)
The Aluminum unibody is not an extruded net shape part. It is a structure that is milled out of an aluminum plate. Those plates can come from an extrusion process but they really don't have to. Where ever the material comes from it is milled to dimension and has the holes for the speaker grill laser drilled. The case finish comes from mechanical brushing of the surface.
Dave
Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.
And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......
In the summer of 1969 I flew a Monocoque-design Beechcraft Musketeer Sport airplane ("Fighter plane design" they called it) through power lines over the midwest USA. Stopped the prop, bent the nosegear sideways, shoved the exhaust stacks back 3 inches. Loose wire ends popped out the side window, showering us in glass. Another ripped an 8-inch gash in the top of the left wing.
We got the engine restarted at about 25 feet above ground, flew it back to an airport 80 miles away, and landed safely. The FAA accident investigator told us if it had been any other brand of light aircraft, we'd have been decorating the Kansas wheat. Monocoque structural engineering saved my life.
I expect I could hold a new polycarbonate (the stuff they use to make F22 Raptor canopies, BTW) MacBook in front of me and take a direct hit from a subway train without so much as a rumple in my corduroys. Maybe a hangnail where my fingers gripped the edge.
Ethernet sucks at bringing over data from another Mac and diagnosing problems. Firewire treats another Mac as a slave drive to the master drive. When signed in as root, it overrides any permissions on the slave drive. So, if I want to clone a drive from one to another, permissions are not an issue. Further, you can delete and /or replace any file on an effected Mac, which is great for troubleshooting. These things can't be done with Ethernet because Ethernet treats another Mac as a networked computer subject to permissions.
Up until recently, I could confidently grab my Mac and a Firewire cable and fix and feel assured I can fix any problem on another person's Mac. I have fixed many friend and family members Macs this way. Taking the Firewire away makes it much harder for people to fix troubled Macs without having to resort to a fresh install.
Firewire across the board was something that truly make being a Mac user a pleasure. Big mistake on Apple's par tin my mind.
No Firewire. Makes sense. If you want Firewire, get the 13.3" Pro for $200 more. No back-lit keyboard, either.
Don't yet know if it's black or white.
No Firewire. Makes sense. If you want Firewire, get the 13.3" Pro for $200 more. No back-lit keyboard, either.
Same screen as the 13 Pro? Same trackpad. RAM expandable to 4GB. Wonder if it will go up to 6GB like the current MacBook.
Not bad for thousand bucks !!
Actually if you can get a late model 2.4Ghz aluminum 13.3" Pro (with better screen) for under 1000, that would be a better deal.
Hey there!
could you send me the link for the MBP you are talking about?
thank you!
ELISA