I second that, Snow Leopard works great on my MacBook & even appears to have resolved some of it's own issues automatically. Combine this with the gains I get running Fusion 3 & wow!
It also turned our 32bit iMac into a usable machine again. When we went from Tiger to Leopard it became a dog, now it runs like it did with Tiger, but with better features than Leopard.
You do realize you can simply downgrade? No one forces you to upgrade. If it's causing you that much grief, simply downgrade until they resolve whatever issues your having.
I just created a second partition so that I could keep up to date on both. Makes it easy to tell when they address whatever issues I'm having.
Most of the comments I see which are negative in nature are using the same logic as someone having a burnt out light bulb in a in a sports arena. The ball player finds the lighting of the field is unacceptable and he's not going to play until the bulb is replaced.
In my 20 years of working with operating systems and other programs I've found all software contains errors. It doesn't mean I am folding up operations until a line of code is fixed.
Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far.
BS !
Quote:
A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7.
Because it isn't 10.7
Quote:
Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk.
It is the best OS going right now. I did an update install on a MBP from early 2008 and have not had any issues. In fact after a week I forced the system to run in 64 bit mode all the time. It has been win win ever since.
Quote:
I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers.
What did SL have to do with that?
Quote:
Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES.
Because the patching hell of Windows is not the path you want to follow.
It's funny, Schillers own PR campaign against windows was because users were going to have to do a fresh reinstall.... Go figure.
The core problem is people will install haxies (which were never approved or recommended in the first place), forget they have them and then bitch, moan and complain about the OS being unstable when it's the crappy third party software that's doing things it shouldn't be.
A clean install is often the easiest way to ensure such cruft is gone.
With Windows 7, you could have a vanilla Windows XP install with no third party software and if you are trying the wrong combination, you are forced to do a clean install. To add insult to injury, MS has nothing like the combination of Time Machine and the Migration Assistant, so you loose your applications - which are no where as easy to install as apps on the Mac. When i got my Intel MacBook Pro, Migration Assistant pulled off my provile, all my documents and even more amazingly all of my programs off of my G4 Powerbook! I didn't have to re-install anything and not only did I change OS versions, I changed CPU architectures! I was stunned! MS has nothing similar, and even third party migration tools (of which there are a plethora with Windows 7) aren't as flexible or reliable.
I'm not sure what everbodies problems are, some even sound like hardware, but I've found SL to be very fast and reliable. Fast being the important element.
One thing I can reccomend to everyone is to update their software especially third party apps.
The thing I find slightly weird about it is I've put Snow Leopard on my three year old MBP, which started on 10.4, was upgraded to 10.5, then has been upgraded to 10.6, and it actually seems to work better than on an iMac I bought a month before SL came out, barely used and then upgraded (so there was basically no third party software on it).
I've no idea why it seems a little less snappy on the new iMac, but I'm sure Apple will fix it.
A "clean install" erases one's boot drive and installs the OS from scratch, instead of upgrading on top of the previous OS.
What it does is it gives a "want-to-be-know-it-all" a term with which he can try to sound like he knows more than the next person. Some "want-to-be-know-it-alls" will answer a question about a problem with an OS upgrade problem by giving the excuse, "well, if you didn't do a clean install, you were just asking for trouble."
I second-guess myself looking for better ways to do things, quite often. But I'm still not convinced that a clean install is better than an upgrade and I won't participate in a debate about it.
+1 here.
I would like to also add that part of the reason is "Oldie Tech Knowledge". When you do a "clean install", you're placing the entire system contiguously at the fastest end of the disc, meaning the inside ring.
I (***most of the time) always do clean installs from disc, repair permissions, then make sure all components are updated (10.6.1 for ex)... and then install my next most resource intensive software, such as CS4. Again, because it will run smoother and slightly faster from the "inside" disc area.
Once all of my main apps are ported.... I again do a permission repair, and then with SuperDuper or CCCloner... make an external disc clone/backup.
I will admit that some of this old tech comes from fooling around with Windows far too long, before switching back to Mac a few years ago once they went Intel. NOTE: also because of bad experiences with PCs, I religiously keep all of my data (other than Mail) separate from my system disk i.e. on a different partition or disk.
*** I actually did a simple upgrade with SL when it came out, but on a clone of my main disk... on both a MacPro and my first Mac (in years), a 2006 2.13 MBP. Both went perfect... and no complaints. However, I still did clean installs on both simultaneously last weekend while watching Vikes lose to the Steelers... the only bad experience the whole weekend.\
If there is only one thing that I can't seem to understand about Macs past, present, and probably future, is the fact that a corrupt font can play havoc with your system(!)... or at the very least make it an unpleasant experience with certain apps crashing.
In the case of SL and Adobe CS4 problems, it was ONE font: Menlo. How can that be?
Even when using a font mngr. like Fusion or FontXplorer, if you load a bad font that it doesn't catch as corrupt, or possibly not "optimized" (such as an old Type 1 font)... you will have problems. With that said, you can (should) clean your font caches with Onyx or similar.
Regardless... the issue remains that a font(s) can make the whole system unstable. Unbelievable in 2009, as far as I'm concerned
I find Snow Leopard significantly faster on my mini with 4 GB memory. OTOH, I am getting the random and infamous Rosetta crash / user logout mess, typically with Excel but not exclusively. For anyone who says a Mac bug can't bring down a computer... well this is one that does. All running apps effectively crash on the user logout. Also see the occasional crash-on-quit bug with iPhoto though it's not destructive.
In all my OS upgrades over the years on various Macs, I never had a problem as serious as the Rosetta crash bug.
I won't go as far as you, but I have to say I'm not really impressed either by it's stability and performance. Clean install too.
weird. i find it fast, more stable than leopard and allows more time between restarts. my mate switched to mac because of snow leopard so that's a huge plus.
Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far. A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7. Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk. I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers. Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES. Thanks for the heartache.
You installed a .0 release of an operating system on a machine that you depend on for your job? That wasn't very smart.
Since installing 10.6 (and 10.6.1) on my 15" MBP, I've had a torrid time with system lock-ups (mouse moves but nothing is responsive). This was a clean install. I did a full permissions check and SMBios reset which helped a bit but I still get on average 1 lock-up per day requiring a restart. No oddball apps in use.
Leopard had been amazingly reliable for me on the same machine, even with a ton of dodgy apps and utilities built up over the years.
Ironically, 10.6.1 on a fun Hackintosh project is rock solid. Go figure!
I just beg that they fix the Open GL system. Performance in gaming has dropped, I can't get more than 60 FPS in games.
Before World of Warcraft would go way beyond 100 FPS, sometimes near 200 FPS. And playing Counter Strike 1.6 via Crossover made my Windows PC feel shame, since I could pull 99 FPS out of it (and only 70-80 FPS on PC). Even when I booted in Windows via Bootcamp, Counter Strike would have more performance being "emulated" by Crossover under Mac OS X (10.5 Leopard).
Yesterday installed Snow Leopard and gaming went down to 60 FPS :S
According to Codeweavers, it's a BUG in Snow Leopard's Open GL, that "locks the FPS to the vertical
sync of your screen or some multiple of it".
I really hope they fix this, it's really the only problem that I had so far with Snow Leopard
Since installing 10.6 (and 10.6.1) on my 15" MBP, I've had a torrid time with system lock-ups (mouse moves but nothing is responsive). This was a clean install. I did a full permissions check and SMBios reset which helped a bit but I still get on average 1 lock-up per day requiring a restart. No oddball apps in use. .
Me too - and I'm alarmed that anyone here who identified that they have real problems are flamed, or accused of operator error!
This is the first time ever (in 20 years) that I've had any problems with a mac, so I can understand why those with no problems with 10.6 are shocked into disbelief - but I promise you, some of us are having tremendous difficulty with system hangs. Like above I'm a basic user - Mail and Safari and possibly Tweetie are typically the only apps open when it fails - no tweaks, hacks or anything that could be remotely suspicious.
I just beg that they fix the Open GL system. Performance in gaming has dropped, I can't get more than 60 FPS in games.
Your description that all of your games now run with 60 FPS max makes me suspect that your "problem" is an activated vsync and not a degradation in OpenGL performance.
Me too - and I'm alarmed that anyone here who identified that they have real problems are flamed, or accused of operator error!
You mustn't read these or any other Apple forums very often. That's pretty much the standard modus operandi among disciples of His Jobness. If it has a fault it's your fault, if it lacks a feature you don't need it anyway.
This week, Apple has asked developers to continue to provide feedback on graphics drivers while also tasking them with focusing their evaluation efforts on TrackPad preferences and the ability to create virtual machines, people familiar with the matter say.
Comments
I completely disagree.
I second that, Snow Leopard works great on my MacBook & even appears to have resolved some of it's own issues automatically. Combine this with the gains I get running Fusion 3 & wow!
It also turned our 32bit iMac into a usable machine again. When we went from Tiger to Leopard it became a dog, now it runs like it did with Tiger, but with better features than Leopard.
You do realize you can simply downgrade? No one forces you to upgrade. If it's causing you that much grief, simply downgrade until they resolve whatever issues your having.
I just created a second partition so that I could keep up to date on both. Makes it easy to tell when they address whatever issues I'm having.
Most of the comments I see which are negative in nature are using the same logic as someone having a burnt out light bulb in a in a sports arena. The ball player finds the lighting of the field is unacceptable and he's not going to play until the bulb is replaced.
In my 20 years of working with operating systems and other programs I've found all software contains errors. It doesn't mean I am folding up operations until a line of code is fixed.
Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far.
BS !
A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7.
Because it isn't 10.7
Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk.
It is the best OS going right now. I did an update install on a MBP from early 2008 and have not had any issues. In fact after a week I forced the system to run in 64 bit mode all the time. It has been win win ever since.
I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers.
What did SL have to do with that?
Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES.
Because the patching hell of Windows is not the path you want to follow.
Thanks for the heartache.
Your welcomed!
Dave
It's funny, Schillers own PR campaign against windows was because users were going to have to do a fresh reinstall.... Go figure.
The core problem is people will install haxies (which were never approved or recommended in the first place), forget they have them and then bitch, moan and complain about the OS being unstable when it's the crappy third party software that's doing things it shouldn't be.
A clean install is often the easiest way to ensure such cruft is gone.
With Windows 7, you could have a vanilla Windows XP install with no third party software and if you are trying the wrong combination, you are forced to do a clean install. To add insult to injury, MS has nothing like the combination of Time Machine and the Migration Assistant, so you loose your applications - which are no where as easy to install as apps on the Mac. When i got my Intel MacBook Pro, Migration Assistant pulled off my provile, all my documents and even more amazingly all of my programs off of my G4 Powerbook! I didn't have to re-install anything and not only did I change OS versions, I changed CPU architectures! I was stunned! MS has nothing similar, and even third party migration tools (of which there are a plethora with Windows 7) aren't as flexible or reliable.
I'm not sure what everbodies problems are, some even sound like hardware, but I've found SL to be very fast and reliable. Fast being the important element.
One thing I can reccomend to everyone is to update their software especially third party apps.
The thing I find slightly weird about it is I've put Snow Leopard on my three year old MBP, which started on 10.4, was upgraded to 10.5, then has been upgraded to 10.6, and it actually seems to work better than on an iMac I bought a month before SL came out, barely used and then upgraded (so there was basically no third party software on it).
I've no idea why it seems a little less snappy on the new iMac, but I'm sure Apple will fix it.
A clean install is often the easiest way to ensure such cruft is gone.
The "clean install" is like a zombie, you can't kill it.
BTW, if anyone cares, all of this so-called "cruft" can be eliminated with an Archive and Install with far less effort and no risk.
Pass it along. Or don't.
BTW, if anyone cares, all of this so-called "cruft" can be eliminated with an Archive and Install with far less effort and no risk.
Actually, Archive and install brings over system preferences (often the conveyance of haxies).
And I thought Archive and Install was eliminated in 10.6 - if you know where it is, pass it on...
A "clean install" erases one's boot drive and installs the OS from scratch, instead of upgrading on top of the previous OS.
What it does is it gives a "want-to-be-know-it-all" a term with which he can try to sound like he knows more than the next person. Some "want-to-be-know-it-alls" will answer a question about a problem with an OS upgrade problem by giving the excuse, "well, if you didn't do a clean install, you were just asking for trouble."
I second-guess myself looking for better ways to do things, quite often. But I'm still not convinced that a clean install is better than an upgrade and I won't participate in a debate about it.
+1 here.
I would like to also add that part of the reason is "Oldie Tech Knowledge". When you do a "clean install", you're placing the entire system contiguously at the fastest end of the disc, meaning the inside ring.
I (***most of the time) always do clean installs from disc, repair permissions, then make sure all components are updated (10.6.1 for ex)... and then install my next most resource intensive software, such as CS4. Again, because it will run smoother and slightly faster from the "inside" disc area.
Once all of my main apps are ported.... I again do a permission repair, and then with SuperDuper or CCCloner... make an external disc clone/backup.
I will admit that some of this old tech comes from fooling around with Windows far too long, before switching back to Mac a few years ago once they went Intel. NOTE: also because of bad experiences with PCs, I religiously keep all of my data (other than Mail) separate from my system disk i.e. on a different partition or disk.
*** I actually did a simple upgrade with SL when it came out, but on a clone of my main disk... on both a MacPro and my first Mac (in years), a 2006 2.13 MBP. Both went perfect... and no complaints. However, I still did clean installs on both simultaneously last weekend while watching Vikes lose to the Steelers... the only bad experience the whole weekend.
In the case of SL and Adobe CS4 problems, it was ONE font: Menlo. How can that be?
Even when using a font mngr. like Fusion or FontXplorer, if you load a bad font that it doesn't catch as corrupt, or possibly not "optimized" (such as an old Type 1 font)... you will have problems. With that said, you can (should) clean your font caches with Onyx or similar.
Regardless... the issue remains that a font(s) can make the whole system unstable. Unbelievable in 2009, as far as I'm concerned
In all my OS upgrades over the years on various Macs, I never had a problem as serious as the Rosetta crash bug.
I won't go as far as you, but I have to say I'm not really impressed either by it's stability and performance. Clean install too.
weird. i find it fast, more stable than leopard and allows more time between restarts. my mate switched to mac because of snow leopard so that's a huge plus.
Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far. A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7. Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk. I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers. Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES. Thanks for the heartache.
You installed a .0 release of an operating system on a machine that you depend on for your job?
Since installing 10.6 (and 10.6.1) on my 15" MBP, I've had a torrid time with system lock-ups (mouse moves but nothing is responsive). This was a clean install. I did a full permissions check and SMBios reset which helped a bit but I still get on average 1 lock-up per day requiring a restart. No oddball apps in use.
Leopard had been amazingly reliable for me on the same machine, even with a ton of dodgy apps and utilities built up over the years.
Ironically, 10.6.1 on a fun Hackintosh project is rock solid. Go figure!
P.
Before World of Warcraft would go way beyond 100 FPS, sometimes near 200 FPS. And playing Counter Strike 1.6 via Crossover made my Windows PC feel shame, since I could pull 99 FPS out of it (and only 70-80 FPS on PC). Even when I booted in Windows via Bootcamp, Counter Strike would have more performance being "emulated" by Crossover under Mac OS X (10.5 Leopard).
Yesterday installed Snow Leopard and gaming went down to 60 FPS :S
According to Codeweavers, it's a BUG in Snow Leopard's Open GL, that "locks the FPS to the vertical
sync of your screen or some multiple of it".
I really hope they fix this, it's really the only problem that I had so far with Snow Leopard
On the stability issue;
Since installing 10.6 (and 10.6.1) on my 15" MBP, I've had a torrid time with system lock-ups (mouse moves but nothing is responsive). This was a clean install. I did a full permissions check and SMBios reset which helped a bit but I still get on average 1 lock-up per day requiring a restart. No oddball apps in use. .
Me too - and I'm alarmed that anyone here who identified that they have real problems are flamed, or accused of operator error!
This is the first time ever (in 20 years) that I've had any problems with a mac, so I can understand why those with no problems with 10.6 are shocked into disbelief - but I promise you, some of us are having tremendous difficulty with system hangs. Like above I'm a basic user - Mail and Safari and possibly Tweetie are typically the only apps open when it fails - no tweaks, hacks or anything that could be remotely suspicious.
I just beg that they fix the Open GL system. Performance in gaming has dropped, I can't get more than 60 FPS in games.
Your description that all of your games now run with 60 FPS max makes me suspect that your "problem" is an activated vsync and not a degradation in OpenGL performance.
Me too - and I'm alarmed that anyone here who identified that they have real problems are flamed, or accused of operator error!
You mustn't read these or any other Apple forums very often. That's pretty much the standard modus operandi among disciples of His Jobness. If it has a fault it's your fault, if it lacks a feature you don't need it anyway.
This week, Apple has asked developers to continue to provide feedback on graphics drivers while also tasking them with focusing their evaluation efforts on TrackPad preferences and the ability to create virtual machines, people familiar with the matter say.
Ability to create virtual machines?
You are right, SL is great. I'm just mad at all my other applications since they decided to start crashing randomly after September 2009.