I used to be afraid of Microsoft, never been afraid of Apple, but I think the one company capable of becoming "big brother" is GOOGLE...search engines, indexing, scanning books, email, applications, cloud computing, advertising, phones, operating systems, etc.
i think google is already a monopoly and they're much more dangerous than microsoft
Apple is threatened by Linux, it has better security, more customization and less bloat than OS X and it's free for most distros ... I use it in VM Fusion
I also run Ubuntu, as well as Fedora, Mepis, and OpenSolaris. I used to use VMware but I have found that the free and open source VirtualBox from Sun is better for Linux guests. I think my guests boot faster and stay stable longer with VirtualBox. The Guest Tools are also easier to install IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing
i think google is already a monopoly and they're much more dangerous than microsoft
Quite a leap, don't ya think? I guess you've never used a friend or family member to get special pricing on something?!
Microsoft doesn't care and neither does Apple when it comes to something like this. Apple says it only allows a limited number of educational discounts per year. I have never had an Apple employee not give me or my wife an educational discount.
What does that have to do with not paying a dime to Microsoft and downloading a hacked version from the internet?
Since you asked...
Let's say you go to Best Buy and pick up a laptop. On the way out you slap $100 on the counter and sprint out the door. By using your logic, Best Buy is getting paid, so you're not stealing anything. I doubt the law would side with you, thankfully.
Quote:
Either way, it's no different than people who buy Office 2007 Home and Student who are neither students nor home users. I know plenty of people that use the software in business environments. Most people just use it as a cheap way to get the most frequently used Office applications.
Um yeah, that's the stealing we're talking about here.
Quote:
But then again, MS is still getting paid.
Since I have a feeling the above logic won't make sense to you, let me try something a little closer to home. I assume you are a student (since you don't appear to appreciate the value of someone's labor) but let's say you also work at a pizza parlor making pies. You agreed to work for an hourly wage of $8. At the end of your shift, your boss says OK Mazda, you did good work today, and without your work I couldn't have run the shop today (insert 'couldn't have done my Word and Excel work today' here), but I'm going to pay you $16 for your 3 hours of work instead of $24.
he was referencing the fact if microsoft closed its doors there was an implication that the next successor would be apple to gain the majority market share.
I don't understand why programs like iWork would get more of a push. I know if you sold iWork for PC it would sell very well as would iLife but i know, Apple fears losing hardware sales right.
Anyway with regard to pages. I used to spend hours doing newsletters with in design and yes, while you have full paper film magazine color
sepetation control, if you are doing something that does not require that, Pages is a God send. I remember when I first started using it. No training required. I was blasting out newsletters like a maniac and they looked really good and it's very easy to make your own template too. I just wish it worked a little better with exprting in word as I hardy use it but a majority of the people in the office do and most noons don't know you can right click a word doc to have pages open them if you want.
Pages rocks. They should show some of that power as well as with logic, Final cut andnyadd yadda.
Great news in my opinion. Anytime Microsoft loses, it's a good thing.
There?s nothing open, as far as I can tell, about custom XML. It's a bogus open standard that excluded Microsoft?s competitors to keep users in the Microsoft fold.
Anytime I see a ~x file, I change it to an older, more compatible, format.
this is no more than a minor inconvenience - certainly not a death blow to Microsoft.
Microsoft had already done the sensible thing and prepared a compliant version whilst awaiting the appeal decision.
Incidentally, the Microsoft Office applications first started life on the Mac before they were brought to Windows.
In a worst case scenario where Microsoft were to collapse today your software remains installed on your computer, when it no longer works there are still plenty of other word processors, spreadsheets etc available. It's remarkable that they're still available despite the Microsoft Office domination.
windows and office are fairly priced for what they are. the full version of OSX is almost the same as the full version of windows 7 home prem.
visual studio... its a pretty robust piece of software and its going to be bulk licensed by businesses at a cheaper rate. the average consumer wont buy this
Windows pricing is a disaster. What are we down to now...3 versions? Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate? I think Vista had what....7 editions? It's byzantine. Just sell the OS in server and regular editions.
As for Office...are you kidding? Office Ultimate is $649.00. Then we have Office Professional, Office Small Business, Office Standard, Office Home and Student. There is also Office Basic (OEM only), Office Professional Plus and Office Enterprise. Oh My God. 8 versions of the same software with prices from $149.00 to god knows what? Fairly priced my butt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead
I don't get people who continue to talk about an "Apple Monopoly". I really wish you would learn what the word actually means. "Ooooh, I wish someone would stop Honda from their Accord monopoly. While you're at it, Sharp's monopoly on Aquos flat screens is pretty ridiculous, as is Canon's monopoly on the EOS line of digital cameras.
You cannot have a monopoly on your own brand. Now if Apple has say 80-90% of the computing market, THEN you can say they have a monopoly ON COMPUTERS, NOT on Macs.
I take the point, but monopolies are not illegal on their own. There has to be some sort of misconduct. Wiki states:
Quote:
Section 2 of the act forbade monopoly. In section 2 cases, the court has, again on its own initiative, drawn a distinction between coercive and innocent monopoly. The act is not meant to punish businesses that come to dominate their market passively or on their own merit, only those that intentionally dominate the market through misconduct, which generally consists of conspiratorial conduct of the kind forbidden by section 1 of the Sherman Act, or Section 3 of the Clayton Act.
This is why the DOJ could go after M$ for the Explorer/Windows debacle. M$ used its dominant position in one area to beat competitors to death. They engineered anti-competitive practices right into the product, as well as used brute force to get PC makers to favor their product.
Apple is another matter. First, you're right...it doesn't have a monopoly on computers and as such, cannot use its market position to be anti-competitive. However, it could be said that Apple has a near-monopoly on digital music and used it to "engineer out" competitors with the closed iTunes system. Just some fuel for the fire.
Windows pricing is a disaster. What are we down to now...3 versions? Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate? I think Vista had what....7 editions? It's byzantine. Just sell the OS in server and regular editions.
As for Office...are you kidding? Office Ultimate is $649.00. Then we have Office Professional, Office Small Business, Office Standard, Office Home and Student. There is also Office Basic (OEM only), Office Professional Plus and Office Enterprise. Oh My God. 8 versions of the same software with prices from $149.00 to god knows what? Fairly priced my butt
sigh.i guess i have to spell it out for you. do you even know the differences in the software? i doubt it. each step of the software adds something else, either a program or a set of features. as for your comment about how many versions, yes they botched it with vista alittle bit.
most people are perfectly fine with the home editions. the other ones are for businesses or people will special requirements in needed features or another program.
That's true but anyone defending that possibility is nuts. If one could no longer buy MS products, which do you think would happen first:
1 - Dell, HP, IBM et al co-opt a linux distribution or two and customize them for general use. Intel and Google both have such a distro that would do the job or
2 - Apple drops its prices by 50% and expands manufacturing by 500%
Anyone who thinks more than 2 seconds gets shown the door in the floor because they're idiots.
i never said it was going to happen or wasnt stupid, thats just what he was inferring.
seems a bit of FUD there. those home users that want to use Macs will use them. they will find a way around the gap between versions or use something like Open Office or iwork until then. that is if it is really an issue for them.
Fixed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov
This is a chance for Apple. Release iWork for Windows.
Very smart idea, but productivity software hasn't been an area where Apple has made a lot of smart decisions. For instance the years where they let AppleWorks lay fallow because they were bored with it or disbanding claris. Lot of potential (especially if they roll Filemaker back into the corporate fold), but not a whole lot of corporate support for something that mundane.
Judging by your grammar, I think you have to spell it out for you.
Quote:
do you even know the differences in the software?
In principle, yes.
Quote:
i doubt it. each step of the software adds something else, either a program or a set of features
That would be the principle I was referring to.
Quote:
. as for your comment about how many versions, yes they botched it with vista alittle bit.
A little?
Quote:
most people are perfectly fine with the home editions. the other ones are for businesses or people will special requirements in needed features or another program.
Yes, which is why having 8 editions is stupid. Have two, or even one. Or, do what Apple does. Have consumer and pro level stuff with different names. Have iOffice and Office Pro or something.
But for general users who just want a netbook, Ubuntu is a excellent alternative to Windows and it's constant need for anti-malware and headaches.
Win7 is pretty good. I don't expect much Linux desktop penetration beyond being the instaboot OS. Much of the issues plaguing XP and Vista have largely been resolved and it has the lions share of software.
For general users who just want a netbook they've chosen XP over Linux in a big way. Win7 runs pretty well on netbooks where the major downside is battery life as opposed to "doesn't work" like Vista.
Quote:
Heck I even run Chrome OS, that's going to be something. A browser type OS with limited features for netbooks, perfect for newbies who just want to email and surf.
Chrome and Android tries to hide the complexities of Linux from the user. Whether it will succeed remains to be seen and whether desktop app developers will make significant software for it.
Ubuntu is getting better in some ways but not others. Mostly because underlying it is a bunch of Linux lunacy. Updates can seriously break things because underlying sub components are swapped out (like that PulseAudio lunacy) or simply not tested across a wide enough swath of hardware. It's often better to simply wipe and restart keeping your home directories in a separate partition. Updating to karmic on my wife's old laptop sucked ass as I had some wierdo graphics glitch that completely hosed X. So a clean install and restoring everything to the way it was took a half a day. I shoulda known better.
Linux sucks hard and that's why I have OSX. And I haven't opened a bleeding console window in OSX for months despite 20 years with linux and unix.
Comments
I used to be afraid of Microsoft, never been afraid of Apple, but I think the one company capable of becoming "big brother" is GOOGLE...search engines, indexing, scanning books, email, applications, cloud computing, advertising, phones, operating systems, etc.
i think google is already a monopoly and they're much more dangerous than microsoft
Apple is threatened by Linux, it has better security, more customization and less bloat than OS X and it's free for most distros ... I use it in VM Fusion
I also run Ubuntu, as well as Fedora, Mepis, and OpenSolaris. I used to use VMware but I have found that the free and open source VirtualBox from Sun is better for Linux guests. I think my guests boot faster and stay stable longer with VirtualBox. The Guest Tools are also easier to install IMHO.
i think google is already a monopoly and they're much more dangerous than microsoft
I agree wholeheartedly!!!
Quite a leap, don't ya think? I guess you've never used a friend or family member to get special pricing on something?!
Microsoft doesn't care and neither does Apple when it comes to something like this. Apple says it only allows a limited number of educational discounts per year. I have never had an Apple employee not give me or my wife an educational discount.
What does that have to do with not paying a dime to Microsoft and downloading a hacked version from the internet?
Since you asked...
Let's say you go to Best Buy and pick up a laptop. On the way out you slap $100 on the counter and sprint out the door. By using your logic, Best Buy is getting paid, so you're not stealing anything. I doubt the law would side with you, thankfully.
Either way, it's no different than people who buy Office 2007 Home and Student who are neither students nor home users. I know plenty of people that use the software in business environments. Most people just use it as a cheap way to get the most frequently used Office applications.
Um yeah, that's the stealing we're talking about here.
But then again, MS is still getting paid.
Since I have a feeling the above logic won't make sense to you, let me try something a little closer to home. I assume you are a student (since you don't appear to appreciate the value of someone's labor) but let's say you also work at a pizza parlor making pies. You agreed to work for an hourly wage of $8. At the end of your shift, your boss says OK Mazda, you did good work today, and without your work I couldn't have run the shop today (insert 'couldn't have done my Word and Excel work today' here), but I'm going to pay you $16 for your 3 hours of work instead of $24.
You're still getting paid!
you didnt read what he was referencing.
he was referencing the fact if microsoft closed its doors there was an implication that the next successor would be apple to gain the majority market share.
I don't understand why programs like iWork would get more of a push. I know if you sold iWork for PC it would sell very well as would iLife but i know, Apple fears losing hardware sales right.
Anyway with regard to pages. I used to spend hours doing newsletters with in design and yes, while you have full paper film magazine color
sepetation control, if you are doing something that does not require that, Pages is a God send. I remember when I first started using it. No training required. I was blasting out newsletters like a maniac and they looked really good and it's very easy to make your own template too. I just wish it worked a little better with exprting in word as I hardy use it but a majority of the people in the office do and most noons don't know you can right click a word doc to have pages open them if you want.
Pages rocks. They should show some of that power as well as with logic, Final cut andnyadd yadda.
Peace
There?s nothing open, as far as I can tell, about custom XML. It's a bogus open standard that excluded Microsoft?s competitors to keep users in the Microsoft fold.
Anytime I see a ~x file, I change it to an older, more compatible, format.
Microsoft had already done the sensible thing and prepared a compliant version whilst awaiting the appeal decision.
Incidentally, the Microsoft Office applications first started life on the Mac before they were brought to Windows.
In a worst case scenario where Microsoft were to collapse today your software remains installed on your computer, when it no longer works there are still plenty of other word processors, spreadsheets etc available. It's remarkable that they're still available despite the Microsoft Office domination.
This is nothing more than a minor annoyance for Microsoft. No big deal.
"Microsoft - change your app. Not that big of a deal.
US Court of Appeals
Sent from our iPhones"
windows and office are fairly priced for what they are. the full version of OSX is almost the same as the full version of windows 7 home prem.
visual studio... its a pretty robust piece of software and its going to be bulk licensed by businesses at a cheaper rate. the average consumer wont buy this
Windows pricing is a disaster. What are we down to now...3 versions? Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate? I think Vista had what....7 editions? It's byzantine. Just sell the OS in server and regular editions.
As for Office...are you kidding? Office Ultimate is $649.00. Then we have Office Professional, Office Small Business, Office Standard, Office Home and Student. There is also Office Basic (OEM only), Office Professional Plus and Office Enterprise. Oh My God. 8 versions of the same software with prices from $149.00 to god knows what? Fairly priced my butt.
I don't get people who continue to talk about an "Apple Monopoly". I really wish you would learn what the word actually means. "Ooooh, I wish someone would stop Honda from their Accord monopoly. While you're at it, Sharp's monopoly on Aquos flat screens is pretty ridiculous, as is Canon's monopoly on the EOS line of digital cameras.
You cannot have a monopoly on your own brand. Now if Apple has say 80-90% of the computing market, THEN you can say they have a monopoly ON COMPUTERS, NOT on Macs.
I take the point, but monopolies are not illegal on their own. There has to be some sort of misconduct. Wiki states:
Section 2 of the act forbade monopoly. In section 2 cases, the court has, again on its own initiative, drawn a distinction between coercive and innocent monopoly. The act is not meant to punish businesses that come to dominate their market passively or on their own merit, only those that intentionally dominate the market through misconduct, which generally consists of conspiratorial conduct of the kind forbidden by section 1 of the Sherman Act, or Section 3 of the Clayton Act.
This is why the DOJ could go after M$ for the Explorer/Windows debacle. M$ used its dominant position in one area to beat competitors to death. They engineered anti-competitive practices right into the product, as well as used brute force to get PC makers to favor their product.
Apple is another matter. First, you're right...it doesn't have a monopoly on computers and as such, cannot use its market position to be anti-competitive. However, it could be said that Apple has a near-monopoly on digital music and used it to "engineer out" competitors with the closed iTunes system. Just some fuel for the fire.
Windows pricing is a disaster. What are we down to now...3 versions? Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate? I think Vista had what....7 editions? It's byzantine. Just sell the OS in server and regular editions.
As for Office...are you kidding? Office Ultimate is $649.00. Then we have Office Professional, Office Small Business, Office Standard, Office Home and Student. There is also Office Basic (OEM only), Office Professional Plus and Office Enterprise. Oh My God. 8 versions of the same software with prices from $149.00 to god knows what? Fairly priced my butt
sigh.i guess i have to spell it out for you. do you even know the differences in the software? i doubt it. each step of the software adds something else, either a program or a set of features. as for your comment about how many versions, yes they botched it with vista alittle bit.
most people are perfectly fine with the home editions. the other ones are for businesses or people will special requirements in needed features or another program.
As opposed to what other version of OS X
uh, i dont know, perhaps the upgrade version? or did you think that was the full version?
That's true but anyone defending that possibility is nuts. If one could no longer buy MS products, which do you think would happen first:
1 - Dell, HP, IBM et al co-opt a linux distribution or two and customize them for general use. Intel and Google both have such a distro that would do the job or
2 - Apple drops its prices by 50% and expands manufacturing by 500%
Anyone who thinks more than 2 seconds gets shown the door in the floor because they're idiots.
i never said it was going to happen or wasnt stupid, thats just what he was inferring.
iWork PRO??
Would be nice.
seems a bit of FUD there. those home users that want to use Macs will use them. they will find a way around the gap between versions or use something like Open Office or iwork until then. that is if it is really an issue for them.
Fixed it.
This is a chance for Apple. Release iWork for Windows.
Very smart idea, but productivity software hasn't been an area where Apple has made a lot of smart decisions. For instance the years where they let AppleWorks lay fallow because they were bored with it or disbanding claris. Lot of potential (especially if they roll Filemaker back into the corporate fold), but not a whole lot of corporate support for something that mundane.
sigh.i guess i have to spell it out for you.
Judging by your grammar, I think you have to spell it out for you.
do you even know the differences in the software?
In principle, yes.
i doubt it. each step of the software adds something else, either a program or a set of features
That would be the principle I was referring to.
. as for your comment about how many versions, yes they botched it with vista alittle bit.
A little?
most people are perfectly fine with the home editions. the other ones are for businesses or people will special requirements in needed features or another program.
Yes, which is why having 8 editions is stupid. Have two, or even one. Or, do what Apple does. Have consumer and pro level stuff with different names. Have iOffice and Office Pro or something.
Judging by your grammar, I think you have to spell it out for you.
people who point out grammar mistakes on a forum, are generally insecure. does it make you feel better to point it out?
There is GIMP, it's certainly no Photoshop.
You can say that again.
But for general users who just want a netbook, Ubuntu is a excellent alternative to Windows and it's constant need for anti-malware and headaches.
Win7 is pretty good. I don't expect much Linux desktop penetration beyond being the instaboot OS. Much of the issues plaguing XP and Vista have largely been resolved and it has the lions share of software.
For general users who just want a netbook they've chosen XP over Linux in a big way. Win7 runs pretty well on netbooks where the major downside is battery life as opposed to "doesn't work" like Vista.
Heck I even run Chrome OS, that's going to be something. A browser type OS with limited features for netbooks, perfect for newbies who just want to email and surf.
Chrome and Android tries to hide the complexities of Linux from the user. Whether it will succeed remains to be seen and whether desktop app developers will make significant software for it.
Ubuntu is getting better in some ways but not others. Mostly because underlying it is a bunch of Linux lunacy. Updates can seriously break things because underlying sub components are swapped out (like that PulseAudio lunacy) or simply not tested across a wide enough swath of hardware. It's often better to simply wipe and restart keeping your home directories in a separate partition. Updating to karmic on my wife's old laptop sucked ass as I had some wierdo graphics glitch that completely hosed X. So a clean install and restoring everything to the way it was took a half a day. I shoulda known better.
Linux sucks hard and that's why I have OSX. And I haven't opened a bleeding console window in OSX for months despite 20 years with linux and unix.
Really? I'm sure you are happy about:
1. KDE4's WM crashing when it feels like it, or just the fact it was released not really done at all.
KDE 4.0 wasn't a x.0 release. It was a flipping fiasco...