I think all of the hype is more about what potential the iPad (and iPhone) have in the future as far as application development. Sure there are some limitations now, but all of that can and probably will be overcome in the not too distant future.
More than likely, they'll have something like GarageBand for iPad, and iMovie for iPad, etc. In those apps, I imagine they will allow some kind media sharing between apps. But I doubt there will ever be any pro-level, or semi-pro-level media creation workflow tools.
I agree. I'd like to add that there is already allot of content creation going on with the Iphone / IPT in music, photography, video and graphics. Users are covered pretty well. Why does everyone say you can't create anything with the Ipad? Such unrealistic expectations. Sure let's give everyone a $500 device that can edit broadcast video, take 30 or 40 megapixel photos, shoot 4K video and do all of the finishing, retouching, titles and VFX. Hope everyone is willing to wait a while for that. Far more likely it'll make a pro's desktop experience a bit better by replacing expensive hardware to interface with FCP or some other App. Similar to "Garageband Touch".
It doesn't? - We'll see, but I'll be surprised if Apple aren't looking to 'control' more of the cloud with MobileMe, and add another revenue stream. (God bless them little Apples)
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroturf1
Hrmmm, that ought to make backups a cinch!
How so? - If backups are to be seamless for the new 'appliance' of the decade they'll have to do some very clever manoeuvring around the file systems on MobileMe (so sloooow) and Timemachine to make it semi-invisable to the new (touch)iWorks user.
So if I receive a word/pages document in the Mail app how do I open it in Pages on iPad? Will the Pages app not see the file because it's in the Mail filesystem, and not the iWork one?
I think this is where Apple has been heading for sometime......and I like it. I remember when iTunes came out. I couldn't stand it reorganizing my folders. When iPhoto came out I had a apoplectic fit as it hid all my carefully organized photo folders. You know what, after letting the applications organize my files/folders, I found it so much easier. I can't remember the last time I went looking for photos or music files in the finder. If I need a file I simply drag it to the desktop or onto the application icon in the dock that needs it.
It works well for songs and photos or other single type of content and is mainly for viewing/listening. But iTunes and iPhoto also essentially act as content servers to share the media with other applications. Are all 3rd party apps expected to build in that same capability?
And you sort of invalidated your entire argument when you say you drag your content to the desktop or to other applications when you need it there. How can you do that when the iPad (currently) can't multitask and there really isn't a desktop to drag a file to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyin
This is where metadata could make this file system work. Tag one project's files with the project name.
Ok, great; but just how do you propose tagging the files and, more importantly, viewing the collection of files you tagged with that project? You'd need an app to allow you to identify the files you want to tag and then view the related files the way you've organized them.
Guess what, you just reinvented the Finder, the Mac's file management application. Granted, you may not be navigating according to the actual file structure of the operating system, but you've still created a virtual file structure the user needs to be able to navigate.
This new file management system will work fine when you have a relatively small number of file types and limited interaction between apps (what would you break if you deleted an app and all it's related documents and other apps were referencing those documents?).
... You know what, after letting the applications organize my files/folders, I found it so much easier...
I agree, after a while you let iTunes and iPhoto organize your file, but let's say I have 64GB of iBooks or simple text file on my iPad, using the bookshelf might not be the fastest route to select a book.
An iPad developer has revealed to AppleInsider how this new mechanism works, without also requiring that users learn about the complexity of the underlying file system. Rather than iPad apps saving their documents into a wide open file system, apps on iPad save all their documents within their own installation directory. Delete the app and you'll clean out all of its related files. This is how the iPhone OS already works.
I was curious if Apple decided to tie this to a MobileMe contract, what would happen to your files if you decided after a year you didn't want to continue your MobileMe. What happens to your files? Does Apple allow you to download them to a hard drive? What if you don't have the space? Do you have to continue to use MobileMe just to hang onto your files? Obviously this is in the early stages. I'm sure cloud computing is coming. I'm just wondering what happens if you change your mind. Can you get off the cloud?
It's been some time since I worked at an Apple Store, but IIRC if you ask they will give you a brief grace period (maybe 1 or more days?) to access your iDisk just for backing up your files. If you don't have space, blank CDs and DVDs are pretty cheap.
Keep in mind that the iPad is still an accessory to a computer, at least for now. What I take issue with is "apps on iPad save all their documents within their own installation directory. Delete the app and you'll clean out all of its related files." I thought that the improved metadata system in OS X was partially to make it easier for you to use multiple apps with the same files, provided they 'know' how to use those file types. If an app keeps all your files in its own directory?and is only aware of what's in that directory?then what happens if someone wants to make their own alternative to, say, Pages for example? How would such an app access files that only Pages is really aware of?
Maybe I'm missing something; maybe the metadata allows other apps to find those files. I'm not a programmer, let alone an iPhone dev. Please feel free to explain what detail I'm missing here.
It probably also doesn't help that I never went to sleep Wednesday night, and went to bed around 3AM last night.
This philosophy is flawed in so many ways. Apple is not giving the end user MORE freedom, but less! Filetypes should act independent to programs for one reason only. LICENSING! Let's apply Apple's logic to the way my computer works now. Being a graphic guy, I switch between Photoshop and Fireworks all the time. Why would I want Photoshop to open and save graphic files when both applications treat the same file totally differently! I also script! There are some things Pages sucks at (script writing development). Why would I want to be in Pages only to write my scripts when scriptwriter pro does it much better?
PDFs is another great example. I want to open PDFs in Acrobat, not PREVIEW! I also want to put files on my thumb drive to send to clients, or upload them to box.net for review. Now what? I have to say to the client, "sorry. That thumbnail I rendered on my iPhone can only be used with this application software of which you have to buy..."
Yea, right.
Why is Apple giving me a reason to move over to the upcoming slate or a netbook running Linux? WHY! What's next Apple? Are you going to tell me that I have to put ice cream in a cone instead of a cup?
So, does this mean that the file can't be accessed by another program/app? Even without multitasking, it would be good to let more than one app have access to a particular file. This seems to go against the 'open' concept that apple generally backs...
And you sort of invalidated your entire argument when you say you drag your content to the desktop or to other applications when you need it there. How can you do that when the iPad (currently) can't multitask and there really isn't a desktop to drag a file to.
He's just talking about how he uses his Mac today, to find content; i.e., he doesn't dig through the file system but rather uses the associated app (iPhone, iTunes, etc.) or Spotlight to find the file for him. He's not talking about how the iPhone/iPad would work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
Ok, great; but just how do you propose tagging the files and, more importantly, viewing the collection of files you tagged with that project? You'd need an app to allow you to identify the files you want to tag and then view the related files the way you've organized them.
The iPhone does have built-in search that searches the entire phone. If they really wanted to add tags to link files between apps, then you could use the search app to list all those files.
So if I receive a word/pages document in the Mail app how do I open it in Pages on iPad? Will the Pages app not see the file because it's in the Mail filesystem, and not the iWork one?
Well you can already do that in Mac OS X. When you have a photo attachment in Mail.app there are multiple options like "view in iPhoto". And if you open iMovie it has a pane showing all of your iTunes files and iPhoto files... etc. Apps can still share each others files in that way. And the idea of tagging would take care of the concept of a project. But that said... I don't know if such a file-system-free model would ever replace professional level content creation. But that's fine! Because most computer users (I'm guessing) are not content creation and development pros. The iPad is not aimed at the professional graphic designer or video editor or web developer... etc. It's aimed at "the rest of us". Like the original Mac. The concept for the original Mac was that it should be as easy to use as a toaster. That it should be an appliance. Not a geek tool. The iPad brings that concept back. I'll say one thing... after one too many phone calls from my 70 year old dad trying to figure out how to do something on his iMac... I have no doubt that he would find the iPad much easier.
I agree, after a while you let iTunes and iPhoto organize your file, but let's say I have 64GB of iBooks or simple text file on my iPad, using the bookshelf might not be the fastest route to select a book.
The file size of your library isn't really an issue. The issue is: how many books do you have? That's really not a big issue, however. They could sort your library by category, author, publication date, title, etc. to make things more manageable.
They could also use the quick lookup feature that the iPhone uses for contacts when you run your finger along the right edge of the screen (it shows the alphabet along the edge of the screen and lets you skip from letter to letter to quickly scroll through long lists).
So, does this mean that the file can't be accessed by another program/app? Even without multitasking, it would be good to let more than one app have access to a particular file. This seems to go against the 'open' concept that apple generally backs...
I totally agree! Apple is selling this idea to idiots in hopes of locking everyone into their own application environment in which they would receive a large piece of the pie for absolutely no work whatsoever. This is all about money. Actually, its down right extortion.
Well you can already do that in Mac OS X. When you have a photo attachment in Mail.app there are multiple options like "view in iPhoto". And if you open iMovie it has a pane showing all of your iTunes files and iPhoto files... etc. Apps can still share each others files in that way. And the idea of tagging would take care of the concept of a project. But that said... I don't know if such a file-system-free model would ever replace professional level content creation. But that's fine! Because most computer users (I'm guessing) are not content creation and development pros. The iPad is not aimed at the professional graphic designer or video editor or web developer... etc. It's aimed and "the rest of us". Like the original Mac. The concept for the original Mac was that it should be as easy to use as a toaster. That is should be an appliance. Not a geek tool. The iPad brings that concept back.
Ok that's fine, but I doubt that there will be a button in iPad Mail that will say "open with 'Documents-to-go (current iPhone app)' or 'XXX made up PDF editor' or 'YYY made up photo editor' or 'ZZZ other made up App store app.' There will probably only be an option to open with Apple's own apps, which is not a great thing.
So, does this mean that the file can't be accessed by another program/app? Even without multitasking, it would be good to let more than one app have access to a particular file. This seems to go against the 'open' concept that apple generally backs...
I doubt that the limitations are as strict as you think they are. For example, on the iPhone a photo editing app can open files from the Photo Album and then save them back to the Photo Album.
I'm guessing there will be similar ways of aggregating similar types of document collections so that you can edit them in various apps...
I totally agree! Apple is selling this idea to idiots in hopes of locking everyone into their own application environment in which they would receive a large piece of the pie for absolutely no work whatsoever. This is all about money. Actually, its down right extortion.
Did you miss this part ?
Instead, each app displays the files it knows about at launch for the user to navigate through directly.
How is that lock-in? If I open an app it sees all filetypes it can handle. This article says nothing about sandboxing documents to a single app.
I totally agree! Apple is selling this idea to idiots in hopes of locking everyone into their own application environment in which they would receive a large piece of the pie for absolutely no work whatsoever. This is all about money. Actually, its down right extortion.
From your previous post, I can tell you don't know what you're talking about (not even close).
From this post, I can tell you have an axe to grind.
Comments
http://www.ipadlot.com
Nice article, Dan. It's always a pleasure to read your analyses.
More than likely, they'll have something like GarageBand for iPad, and iMovie for iPad, etc. In those apps, I imagine they will allow some kind media sharing between apps. But I doubt there will ever be any pro-level, or semi-pro-level media creation workflow tools.
I agree. I'd like to add that there is already allot of content creation going on with the Iphone / IPT in music, photography, video and graphics. Users are covered pretty well. Why does everyone say you can't create anything with the Ipad? Such unrealistic expectations. Sure let's give everyone a $500 device that can edit broadcast video, take 30 or 40 megapixel photos, shoot 4K video and do all of the finishing, retouching, titles and VFX. Hope everyone is willing to wait a while for that. Far more likely it'll make a pro's desktop experience a bit better by replacing expensive hardware to interface with FCP or some other App. Similar to "Garageband Touch".
This has absolutely nothing to do with MobileMe
It doesn't? - We'll see, but I'll be surprised if Apple aren't looking to 'control' more of the cloud with MobileMe, and add another revenue stream. (God bless them little Apples)
Hrmmm, that ought to make backups a cinch!
How so? - If backups are to be seamless for the new 'appliance' of the decade they'll have to do some very clever manoeuvring around the file systems on MobileMe (so sloooow) and Timemachine to make it semi-invisable to the new (touch)iWorks user.
I think this is where Apple has been heading for sometime......and I like it. I remember when iTunes came out. I couldn't stand it reorganizing my folders. When iPhoto came out I had a apoplectic fit as it hid all my carefully organized photo folders. You know what, after letting the applications organize my files/folders, I found it so much easier. I can't remember the last time I went looking for photos or music files in the finder. If I need a file I simply drag it to the desktop or onto the application icon in the dock that needs it.
It works well for songs and photos or other single type of content and is mainly for viewing/listening. But iTunes and iPhoto also essentially act as content servers to share the media with other applications. Are all 3rd party apps expected to build in that same capability?
And you sort of invalidated your entire argument when you say you drag your content to the desktop or to other applications when you need it there. How can you do that when the iPad (currently) can't multitask and there really isn't a desktop to drag a file to.
This is where metadata could make this file system work. Tag one project's files with the project name.
Ok, great; but just how do you propose tagging the files and, more importantly, viewing the collection of files you tagged with that project? You'd need an app to allow you to identify the files you want to tag and then view the related files the way you've organized them.
Guess what, you just reinvented the Finder, the Mac's file management application. Granted, you may not be navigating according to the actual file structure of the operating system, but you've still created a virtual file structure the user needs to be able to navigate.
This new file management system will work fine when you have a relatively small number of file types and limited interaction between apps (what would you break if you deleted an app and all it's related documents and other apps were referencing those documents?).
... You know what, after letting the applications organize my files/folders, I found it so much easier...
I agree, after a while you let iTunes and iPhoto organize your file, but let's say I have 64GB of iBooks or simple text file on my iPad, using the bookshelf might not be the fastest route to select a book.
An iPad developer has revealed to AppleInsider how this new mechanism works, without also requiring that users learn about the complexity of the underlying file system. Rather than iPad apps saving their documents into a wide open file system, apps on iPad save all their documents within their own installation directory. Delete the app and you'll clean out all of its related files. This is how the iPhone OS already works.
yuck, this sounds worrisome to me.
I was curious if Apple decided to tie this to a MobileMe contract, what would happen to your files if you decided after a year you didn't want to continue your MobileMe. What happens to your files? Does Apple allow you to download them to a hard drive? What if you don't have the space? Do you have to continue to use MobileMe just to hang onto your files? Obviously this is in the early stages. I'm sure cloud computing is coming. I'm just wondering what happens if you change your mind. Can you get off the cloud?
It's been some time since I worked at an Apple Store, but IIRC if you ask they will give you a brief grace period (maybe 1 or more days?) to access your iDisk just for backing up your files. If you don't have space, blank CDs and DVDs are pretty cheap.
Keep in mind that the iPad is still an accessory to a computer, at least for now. What I take issue with is "apps on iPad save all their documents within their own installation directory. Delete the app and you'll clean out all of its related files." I thought that the improved metadata system in OS X was partially to make it easier for you to use multiple apps with the same files, provided they 'know' how to use those file types. If an app keeps all your files in its own directory?and is only aware of what's in that directory?then what happens if someone wants to make their own alternative to, say, Pages for example? How would such an app access files that only Pages is really aware of?
Maybe I'm missing something; maybe the metadata allows other apps to find those files. I'm not a programmer, let alone an iPhone dev. Please feel free to explain what detail I'm missing here.
It probably also doesn't help that I never went to sleep Wednesday night, and went to bed around 3AM last night.
This philosophy is flawed in so many ways. Apple is not giving the end user MORE freedom, but less! Filetypes should act independent to programs for one reason only. LICENSING! Let's apply Apple's logic to the way my computer works now. Being a graphic guy, I switch between Photoshop and Fireworks all the time. Why would I want Photoshop to open and save graphic files when both applications treat the same file totally differently! I also script! There are some things Pages sucks at (script writing development). Why would I want to be in Pages only to write my scripts when scriptwriter pro does it much better?
PDFs is another great example. I want to open PDFs in Acrobat, not PREVIEW! I also want to put files on my thumb drive to send to clients, or upload them to box.net for review. Now what? I have to say to the client, "sorry. That thumbnail I rendered on my iPhone can only be used with this application software of which you have to buy..."
Yea, right.
Why is Apple giving me a reason to move over to the upcoming slate or a netbook running Linux? WHY! What's next Apple? Are you going to tell me that I have to put ice cream in a cone instead of a cup?
And you sort of invalidated your entire argument when you say you drag your content to the desktop or to other applications when you need it there. How can you do that when the iPad (currently) can't multitask and there really isn't a desktop to drag a file to.
He's just talking about how he uses his Mac today, to find content; i.e., he doesn't dig through the file system but rather uses the associated app (iPhone, iTunes, etc.) or Spotlight to find the file for him. He's not talking about how the iPhone/iPad would work.
Ok, great; but just how do you propose tagging the files and, more importantly, viewing the collection of files you tagged with that project? You'd need an app to allow you to identify the files you want to tag and then view the related files the way you've organized them.
The iPhone does have built-in search that searches the entire phone. If they really wanted to add tags to link files between apps, then you could use the search app to list all those files.
So if I receive a word/pages document in the Mail app how do I open it in Pages on iPad? Will the Pages app not see the file because it's in the Mail filesystem, and not the iWork one?
Well you can already do that in Mac OS X. When you have a photo attachment in Mail.app there are multiple options like "view in iPhoto". And if you open iMovie it has a pane showing all of your iTunes files and iPhoto files... etc. Apps can still share each others files in that way. And the idea of tagging would take care of the concept of a project. But that said... I don't know if such a file-system-free model would ever replace professional level content creation. But that's fine! Because most computer users (I'm guessing) are not content creation and development pros. The iPad is not aimed at the professional graphic designer or video editor or web developer... etc. It's aimed at "the rest of us". Like the original Mac. The concept for the original Mac was that it should be as easy to use as a toaster. That it should be an appliance. Not a geek tool. The iPad brings that concept back. I'll say one thing... after one too many phone calls from my 70 year old dad trying to figure out how to do something on his iMac... I have no doubt that he would find the iPad much easier.
I agree, after a while you let iTunes and iPhoto organize your file, but let's say I have 64GB of iBooks or simple text file on my iPad, using the bookshelf might not be the fastest route to select a book.
The file size of your library isn't really an issue. The issue is: how many books do you have? That's really not a big issue, however. They could sort your library by category, author, publication date, title, etc. to make things more manageable.
They could also use the quick lookup feature that the iPhone uses for contacts when you run your finger along the right edge of the screen (it shows the alphabet along the edge of the screen and lets you skip from letter to letter to quickly scroll through long lists).
So, does this mean that the file can't be accessed by another program/app? Even without multitasking, it would be good to let more than one app have access to a particular file. This seems to go against the 'open' concept that apple generally backs...
I totally agree! Apple is selling this idea to idiots in hopes of locking everyone into their own application environment in which they would receive a large piece of the pie for absolutely no work whatsoever. This is all about money. Actually, its down right extortion.
Well you can already do that in Mac OS X. When you have a photo attachment in Mail.app there are multiple options like "view in iPhoto". And if you open iMovie it has a pane showing all of your iTunes files and iPhoto files... etc. Apps can still share each others files in that way. And the idea of tagging would take care of the concept of a project. But that said... I don't know if such a file-system-free model would ever replace professional level content creation. But that's fine! Because most computer users (I'm guessing) are not content creation and development pros. The iPad is not aimed at the professional graphic designer or video editor or web developer... etc. It's aimed and "the rest of us". Like the original Mac. The concept for the original Mac was that it should be as easy to use as a toaster. That is should be an appliance. Not a geek tool. The iPad brings that concept back.
Ok that's fine, but I doubt that there will be a button in iPad Mail that will say "open with 'Documents-to-go (current iPhone app)' or 'XXX made up PDF editor' or 'YYY made up photo editor' or 'ZZZ other made up App store app.' There will probably only be an option to open with Apple's own apps, which is not a great thing.
So, does this mean that the file can't be accessed by another program/app? Even without multitasking, it would be good to let more than one app have access to a particular file. This seems to go against the 'open' concept that apple generally backs...
I doubt that the limitations are as strict as you think they are. For example, on the iPhone a photo editing app can open files from the Photo Album and then save them back to the Photo Album.
I'm guessing there will be similar ways of aggregating similar types of document collections so that you can edit them in various apps...
I totally agree! Apple is selling this idea to idiots in hopes of locking everyone into their own application environment in which they would receive a large piece of the pie for absolutely no work whatsoever. This is all about money. Actually, its down right extortion.
Did you miss this part ?
Instead, each app displays the files it knows about at launch for the user to navigate through directly.
How is that lock-in? If I open an app it sees all filetypes it can handle. This article says nothing about sandboxing documents to a single app.
I totally agree! Apple is selling this idea to idiots in hopes of locking everyone into their own application environment in which they would receive a large piece of the pie for absolutely no work whatsoever. This is all about money. Actually, its down right extortion.
From your previous post, I can tell you don't know what you're talking about (not even close).
From this post, I can tell you have an axe to grind.
==> Added to ignore list.